I have Realized the Infinite

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
User avatar
guest_of_logic
Posts: 1063
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:51 pm

Re: I have Realized the Infinite

Post by guest_of_logic »

Nick,
Nick Treklis wrote:You just don't understand the nature of the absolute, and because of this you make absolute statements without realizing they are absolutely false.
I don't see what I've been doing as "making absolute statements" though: from my perspective I've simply been stating confident opinions.
Nick Treklis wrote:David's book is a tool which can ready and prepare one's mind to understand how absolutes work and indeed discover what is absolutely true. Misconstruing this as approaching absolute truth in the sense that you mean it is another example of why you don't understand the nature of absolutes.
A core claim of the house philosophy (and of David's book) is that absolute truth can be attained intellectually through pure logic. It follows that if you understand the logic, then you understand the absolute truth: you approach the absolute truth to the extent that you understand the logic. I've seen all of the logic here over and over: what makes you think that I don't understand it? I wonder whether you even acknowledge the difference between misunderstanding and disagreement in this context. I suspect not: I suspect that you are simply absolutely convinced of the absolute correctness of your absolute truths.
Nick Treklis wrote:Better at what being the question. Obviously we don't share the same values, so why does it matter if you think I can do better at something you value?
Better at forming a perspective on reality. I think that at the most abstract level you and I do share values: at that level, we both value understanding, and living life in accordance with our understanding (you would probably prefer to replace "understanding" with "truth" or even "Truth"). The difference is in our actual understandings, and how to live in accordance with those understandings. You inspired me to explore this in depth in a new thread that I've just started: Arbitrary absolutism: the values of the house philosophy. It's more strictly an exploration of the difference between my values and those of the house philosophy, but as far as I can tell, you mostly agree with the house philosophy, so to at least a large extent it seems to apply to you. I hope it answers your question: "better at what?" By the way, none of what I wrote in that post is intended to be "absolute". It's just my opinion.
guest_of_logic: I know, though, that you don't want to hear it from me. After all, you're a conqueror holding the Holy Grail, and I'm just a grubby wretch who hasn't even begun the search.

Nick: I'm just a man who knows the truth, and you're not.
Which is what I said, just less evocatively. If you read the post I linked to, you might see why I don't take your claim at all seriously.
User avatar
Dan Rowden
Posts: 5739
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 8:03 pm
Contact:

Re: I have Realized the Infinite

Post by Dan Rowden »

Just in case anyone missed it, here's a link to Laird's latest thread: Arbitrary Absolutism: the values of the house philosophy.

You know, just in case anyone missed it.
User avatar
guest_of_logic
Posts: 1063
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:51 pm

Re: I have Realized the Infinite

Post by guest_of_logic »

Hahahahahahaha!

I like to have my cross-references in order. :-)
User avatar
David Quinn
Posts: 5708
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 6:56 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: I have Realized the Infinite

Post by David Quinn »

guest_of_logic wrote:A core claim of the house philosophy (and of David's book) is that absolute truth can be attained intellectually through pure logic. It follows that if you understand the logic, then you understand the absolute truth: you approach the absolute truth to the extent that you understand the logic. I've seen all of the logic here over and over: what makes you think that I don't understand it?
Every word you say.

-
paco
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:57 pm

Re: I have Realized the Infinite

Post by paco »

Loki wrote:According to my own evaluation, I have attained a clear understanding of how Reality has an Infinite nature. A month ago I was very confused, but now I am seeing clearly.

Thanks goes out to those forum members who have given me their time and patience since my inception. You know who you are.

-

So what's the point of this thread? In part, I wanted to give thanks, but mostly I just wanted to share my new understanding. Now that I've explored the territory, I have a map, so why not share the map so others can make the journey easier than I have made it? There are lots of maps to enlightenment out there, and each map is unique and appeals to specific personalities, and perhaps my unique take on enlightenment will appeal to a certain type of person. Perhaps you may find what I'm about to say uniquely useful. Also, criticism of my "map" is very much encouraged, because I'm not under the illusion that I have nothing else to learn and improve upon, but I do feel I've made significant progress.

-

Realizing the Infinite

To realize the infinite nature of all things, you must first acknowledge a few basic things, or, in other words, you must accept a few basic premises, and understand why these premises must be accepted.

For starters, things, as we are able to know them, are appearances. Appearances, by definition, require mind. Appearances comprise our reality, they are what we wonder about, and they provide a means to know. Reality is a myriad of appearances, and Reality is also the logical implications that make these appearances possible.

Reality, Existence, Appearance, Thing, Manifestation, these are all tied together. That which appears is a thing, and that which is a thing exists, and that which exists manifests, and the logical implications of manifestation is our Reality. Reality isn't just perception of things themselves, but reality is also the entirety of logical implications that make manifestation, existence, thingness, and appearance possible.

The basic premises I just outlined above comprise the first step, and I personally found it a rather tricky first step. If you walk away from this first step I outlined without seeing the significance and absoluteness of A=A, then you have not really understood the first step. It's deceptively, deceptively simple. It's extreme simplicity is perhaps what makes it so difficult to clearly see.

The second step, I found, to be quite a bit easier, and in fact, I clearly understood it even before I really understood the first step.

The second step is to understand the dualistic nature of any manifestation. A manifestation, such as a white dot, exists in contrast to what it is not (the surrounding otherness). A white dot cannot exist without contrasting itself with otherness, and this "surrounding otherness" is just as much a manifestation or thing as the white dot. A white dot also can't exist without having dimension (one side in contrast to another) or one curve connecting to a contrasting curve. So appearances, by nature, are dual. Also, since a thing is dependent on otherness, then the dualness is a oneness. Things cannot exist without other things, and therefore they are one. And since the two are actually a oneness, then a specific thing doesn't have real boundaries, because a thing's counterpart is a part of what that thing is. The two things are a unity, and the boundary is there for convenience. (Note: Although I had no problem realizing how things are dual and a unity, I did struggle with accepting the lack of boundaries).

Trickiness ensues in the third step, which I found even harder than the first step. The third step is to understand how the dual (thingness) has an infinite essence. I'll say it again: that which is dual (thing v thing) has an infinite essence.

How can a person really know this?

Well, as David Quinn recently stressed to me, you first have to get it out of your head that the “Infinite nature of things” has anything to do with space expanding outwardly in all directions. You also have to realize that it doesn't matter if the universe does or doesn't expand infinitely in all directions. This doesn't matter simply because it's not something we can really know, and the goal here is to stick with what we can know.

What is it that we can know about the reality right in front of us?

Like I said, things are dual, and the dual has an infinite nature. So how do we know the dual has an infinite nature? Well, you just have to ask yourself where the cause of a thing resides.

Bring your mind back to the white dot (in the foreground) in contrast to the black background.

What causes the white dot in the foreground? We could say that the surrounding black background causes the white foreground dot, but then we would have to ask what causes the black background. We could say that the white dot in the foreground causes the black background, but then we're back to where we started: what causes the white dot in the foreground?

Where does the cause of the black background (or of anything) truly reside?

The causes of things reside everywhere and nowhere.

I'll tell you why. If you pinpoint a location where a thing's cause resides, then you have to ask where that cause resides, and then you move to another spot, but then that spot needs a cause, and this must go on infinitely. A thing's cause resides everywhere and nowhere. It is ineffable and unseen. The essence of a thing cannot manifest, it is not finite - and thus it is INFINITE.

You should notice that my analysis sticks with understanding the nature of appearances, in other words, the nature of that which appears to the mind. This is because we aren’t able to know that which exists beyond the mind, because the moment we do, it becomes a part of the mind. So my analysis sticks with the nature of knowing, the nature of manifestation, appearance, and existence, because this is my Reality.

Questions? Criticisms?
I utterly disagree. In the consciousness/awareness, these are just the basic thoughts that people attained through getting to know ones own nature/self. I think that a generation that has come to or begged awareness is just a thing of the past. I think that nature at it's best is consciousness/awareness. That may seem a bit out of the stream of things. Our thoughts are places in this pattern where it attains certainty. That is judgement. When we know how to understand the surroundings. Just picture a swallow in the ocean.
I am illiterate
Locked