What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

[jupiviv]

Male tennis is far more powerful, but it also displays a far larger amount of tactical intelligence and finesse. Roger Federer, a master of strategy and finesse, and physically not all that powerful, has been the dominant player for some years now. The same with golf. Tiger Woods has flair and finesse by the bucketload, far more so than the plodding, robotic nature of the top female golfers.

It is like watching the difference between 3-dimensional sport and 1-dimensional sport.

I think chess would be a far better example of how males and females differ in intellectual matters. The only female player to have come in the top 50 of world chess is Judit Polgar(now she's not even in the top 100). She used to memorise entire chess books since the age of 5. As a result, she plays like a very powerful computer. This was enough to beat the lower half of chess players, but not enough to beat the ones(Kasparov, Karpov etc.) who were technically her equals, but strategically far superior to her. Her performance in blitz matches(5-15 minute matches) is also very poor, as you require more tactical thinking than technical prowess there.

Here's a good quote by Kasparov - "Women, by their nature, are not exceptional chess players: they are not great fighters."

[pointexter]

David,

false l am and all that l say.

How to let go of it all. l am starting to seriously doubt the capacity for it.

[Kelly Jones]

There is but one way to be expanded into becoming aware of the nature of the Infinity of Oneself, and that is by purging oneself of any and all clinging to finite, subjective-objective beliefs.

Hence the study of women: all the most coarse and obvious false beliefs bundled into one package. That's why, if young men haven't experienced some major insights regarding women --- namely, her negative relation to deep psychological self-awareness, idealism and truthfulness, openness and sincerity and clarity in communication, consistency and purposefulness in one's life, and above all rationality --- then they haven't a hope in hell of becoming wise.

Does the intellect of pride and puffery like to hear that it must die so that the Pure Awareness of man can be expanded within his consciousness? Not on a bet.

Telling the truth about women privately or publicly is a profound form of purging. It's sweating out in a very deep, psychological fashion, attachment to concepts, images, desires, habits, dreams and truth-unwilling states of mind. It's actually setting a man up against his own delusions and loves, demanding greater skill, greater endurance, greater patience, and greater understanding, than he has imagined himself likely to develop. The sport of enlightenment is the most torturous, strenuous sport of all. It is not brute power that counts, or sheer cunning, but the ability to exhaust the opponent out of contention with an uncompromising love. Whether one has the capacity for this, and how far one will go, is all a matter of how much one loves the truth.

[Kunga]

i just want to add..it is more tolerable(for me anyways) to have a woman (Kelly)...expose the downside of femininity than having a man do it. Why is that ? I think because i respect women more as they have experienced being a woman and KNOW from EXPERIENCE what they are talking about. A man just wants to overpower and dominate woman...and i loathe men that love repressing women thinking they are superior. It is especially repulsive to see some people here that think they are intelligently superior to others....based only on what is posted here, not knowing the real truth and dynamics in peoples lives. There is more to intelligence than being rational and logical...the feminine and masculine traits need to work in harmony in a persons life. If all women & men had their femininity knocked out of them something would get unbalanced i would think.

Knowing myself ...when i am judged as being overly feminine...my eyes roll in unbeliefe as you have no idea what i do in my daily life...my writing here is only a fraction of what i do . My anger when the feminine is downplayed as inferior stems also from it sounding like a fucking lie and to me is not truth.

Is a flower feminine ?
Is the moon feminine ?
a butterfly feminine?

If this Universe was all masculine it would be ugly as shit.

Long Live Femininity !!!!!

Without it...THERE IS NO MASCULINITY !!!!


_/\_

[Pam Seeback]

There can be no knowledge or wisdom of the infinite as long as one is clinging to their attachments to the finite. All discussions of this vs. that (in this case, male consciousness vs. female consciousness) are just such demonstrations of human intellectual ignorance, of attachments and prejudices that hinder man's comprehension of his transcendent, whole, complete, perfect and pure (infinite) nature.

The trouble is, you're doing the same thing. You're operating with dichotomies as well - e.g. "discussing this vs. that".

For example, your paragraph above can easily be reworded as:

There can be no knowledge or wisdom of the infinite as long as one is clinging to their attachments to the finite. All discussions of this vs. that (in this case, prejudiced consciousness vs. unprejudiced consciousness) are just such demonstrations of human intellectual ignorance, of attachments and prejudices that hinder man's comprehension of his transcendent, whole, complete, perfect and pure (infinite) nature.

Your basic message seems to be, "No one should be allowed to utilize dichotomies, except me."

-

I am pleased to see that you stated that my "basic" message seems to be: "No one should be allowed to utilize dichotomies, except me", for no where have I ever used the term of reference of "being allowed" or even suggested such an activity in any of my posts. This is your translation of my unconditional statements, not the intent of my unconditional statements. I state what I have come to know, no more, no less. Those entering my statements of what I have come to know are free to accept or reject what I bring forward and give evidence as to why they accept or reject what I have brought forward.

There is a difference between being in the world, and of the world. In order to cease being of the world, one must remain in the world, for it is while one is caught in the mentality of dualism/dichotomy that one eliminates this mentality. In other words, one must go through the mind to go beyond the mind. This is the wisdom that I bring in my posts. Therefore, you will never see me using dualities or dichotomies as you say I am doing, rather, only referencing them for the sake of pointing the way of being free of all dualites/dichotomies.

[Anders Schlander]

i just want to add..it is more tolerable(for me anyways) to have a woman (Kelly)...expose the downside of femininity than having a man do it. Why is that ? I think because i respect women more as they have experienced being a woman and KNOW from EXPERIENCE what they are talking about. A man just wants to overpower and dominate woman...and i loathe men that love repressing women thinking they are superior. It is especially repulsive to see some people here that think they are intelligently superior to others....based only on what is posted here, not knowing the real truth and dynamics in peoples lives. There is more to intelligence than being rational and logical...the feminine and masculine traits need to work in harmony in a persons life. If all women & men had their femininity knocked out of them something would get unbalanced i would think.

Knowing myself ...when i am judged as being overly feminine...my eyes roll in unbeliefe as you have no idea what i do in my daily life...my writing here is only a fraction of what i do . My anger when the feminine is downplayed as inferior stems also from it sounding like a fucking lie and to me is not truth.

Is a flower feminine ?
Is the moon feminine ?
a butterfly feminine?

If this Universe was all masculine it would be ugly as shit.

Long Live Femininity !!!!!

Without it...THERE IS NO MASCULINITY !!!!


_/\_

".the feminine and masculine traits need to work in harmony in a persons life"

I don't think this is really possible, as they are opposed, and the you become feminine the more you are NOT masculine, and a person that values one of these devalues the other.

It is the feminine that wants femininity, and masculinity that wants masculinity, having both in balance is abit insane. It's like wanting to keep babies alive and wanting to slay babies while trying to keep both views. We aren't 100% masculine or feminine but they are not compatible with eachother, and therefore you will always value one and not the other.

I think you want to keep the feminine. You say you want balance and want to have both, but how can it be peaceful when the masculine is the death of the feminine and vice versa? it is war of the mind, and if you want the masculine you will also slay a part of the feminine in you.

But the men who are captivated by women and their innocent airhead looks who can't help want to conqouer a woman is those who themselves are captivated by femininity. You are not really talking about masculinity, but people who have a need of femininity. What they see is salvation from suffering, a kind of heaven, how can u blame them :)

[Kunga]

i disagree...we have both male and female hormones...they work together somehow and have purposes (i'm not an expert in this, as a matter of fact i'm just now learning about femininity/masculinity i never really studied it like the people here at Genius Forms ....such as Kelly, David, Dan, Elizabeth, Sue, Leila, and many others here.. i'm sure know much more than myself on this issue). BUT i do know that we are made up of both of these hormones that cause us to behave in male/female ways. I can be aggressive (a male/masculine trait) (right?) I can be passive (feminine ? )

very mechanically inclined
scored off the charts in abstract reasoning (before i fried my brains out )
high sex drive (back in the day)
served in the military
worked all my life
tomboy as young adolecent
not afraid of getting dirty and grubby doing mans work sometimes
interest in geology,astronomy,archeology(actively participated in archeological expeditions) & took geology classes at a University.
adventurous (Traveling internationally, Tripping on mind altering drugs, Falling in love, having children, served in the military, gourmet cook ...specializing in Indian Cusine) single parenting.....many other things ...


so much more....and i seem to have a equal amount of feminine characteristics

i say they work together.....side by side...playing there roles individually as needed.

[Anders Schlander]

Im not really that concerned about the hormones as a cause, but i wanna point out that men chasing after women is for the most part the feminine in a man being attracted to femininity.

Femininity is seen when people need merging with other people, ideas, when they herd together, it's the 'clingy' bit. And feminity is often said to be 'social' as opposed to anti social. I stand by the fact that most men don't chase women because they want intellectual partnerships, many women are scared off by too much intellectualizing. Back before when you said

"A man just wants to overpower and dominate woman...and i loathe men that love repressing women thinking they are superior."

I would rather say that a man that wants to overpower and dominate woman still has a feminine side that wants to merge with somebody else, as for the 2nd sentence... men that need 'others' to see that they are superior often make a show, they boast and come with remarks about women, which is feminine, because they need those 'others', where a man that doesn't does not need to make a big fuss about it. basically, they are still quite weak and not that masculine.

I'm talking about the general behavior of human beings, and the differences between the individual and the herd-person, the masculine and the feminine, there is many facets and names of the differences.

On a scientific level, I would be doubtful whether there are actually masculine and feminine hormones, but there is definitely alot of causes that puts a person on an individual path, or keeps a person in the herd, many of which might be due to the people that they meet or have to deal with during their life, but also genetics and biology.

Much of what your interests during your life don't deal with the root of the feminine/masculine, ofcourse, some places are more a 'mans job' and some a 'woman's job, but that's not cutting to the bone. I don't belief being a tomboy is enough to deal with the feminine, most actual men, and thus boys, do not deal with it either, but having boy-ish interests in early years does indicate a potential to develop the mind, because there is a sense of will to power associated...

[David Quinn]

David,

false l am and all that l say.

How to let go of it all. l am starting to seriously doubt the capacity for it.

Why do you say that?

-

[David Quinn]

Your basic message seems to be, "No one should be allowed to utilize dichotomies, except me."

I am pleased to see that you stated that my "basic" message seems to be: "No one should be allowed to utilize dichotomies, except me", for no where have I ever used the term of reference of "being allowed" or even suggested such an activity in any of my posts. This is your translation of my unconditional statements, not the intent of my unconditional statements.

See, you are doing it again. When you utilize dichotomies (which, like the rest of us, you do all the time), you paint it as making unconditional statements. When other people do it, you paint it as their conditioning.

I state what I have come to know, no more, no less. Those entering my statements of what I have come to know are free to accept or reject what I bring forward and give evidence as to why they accept or reject what I have brought forward.

As long as you remain in denial of your own hypocrisy in this area, I see no reason to take them seriously.

There is a difference between being in the world, and of the world. In order to cease being of the world, one must remain in the world, for it is while one is caught in the mentality of dualism/dichotomy that one eliminates this mentality. In other words, one must go through the mind to go beyond the mind. This is the wisdom that I bring in my posts. Therefore, you will never see me using dualities or dichotomies as you say I am doing, rather, only referencing them for the sake of pointing the way of being free of all dualites/dichotomies.

Yet when other people claim to be doing the same thing, you immediately paint it as their conditioning.

I know what you're trying to get at, but at the moment your mission is flawed because it keeps forcing you into self-contradiction. You need to seriously re-think what you are doing.

-

[Kunga]

On a scientific level, I would be doubtful whether there are actually masculine and feminine hormones

Testosterone and Estrogen

men chasing after women is for the most part the feminine in a man being attracted to femininity.

i don't know what they say scientifically about that...but i thought it was testosterone that caused men to have a sex drive and thus be attracted (if heterosexual) to women. i'm beginning to wonder if you people that are educated in the dynamics of men and women are being brainwashed by fucked up by psychological misogynist theories...you just believe that stuff because it's the trend to think like that, and it sounds like herd mentality to me if you just believe what the misogynistic gurus say .

Femininity is seen when people need merging with other people, ideas, when they herd together, it's the 'clingy' bit. And feminity is often said to be 'social' as opposed to anti social. I stand by the fact that most men don't chase women because they want intellectual partnerships, many women are scared off by too much intellectualizing.

Oh brother ! So the guys hanging out together are just a bunch of fem's ? I often wondered why guys pat each other on the butt during contact sports & in the locker room...are they secretly homosexuals at heart ?

Women are sick of being seen as nothing but sex objects. (at least i was) i loved men that could have an intelligent conversation. It turned me off to be with a man that had a one track mind. I would think an intelligent man would want to be with an intelligent woman, besides one that is sexually compatable.

a man that wants to overpower and dominate woman still has a feminine side that wants to merge with somebody else,

So the man merges because of his femininity and the woman merges because of her masculinity ? I thought it was the masculine nature of man that wants to merge with the feminine nature of woman because opposites attract ....maybe a man and woman are more complete when their own male & female traits have merged within themselves and they find they no longer need to merge with another because they are already complete within themselves.

[David Quinn]

The only real victims in all of this were those few women, a rare few in each generation, who were genuinely intelligent and masculine in their nature and were prevented from fulfilling their ambitions by the patriarchal laws which were endorsed by the rest of womankind, and also, of course, by men. For them, the oppression was real. But for most women, it was a perfectly satisfactory state of affairs.

I'm highly doubtful about whether there were(or are) any such women. Women have had enough opportunities to exhibit genius for the last 5000 years or so, but there haven't been any female geniuses. Take religion for example. More than 90% of wisdom is in the form of religious texts, and it's not as if women were forbidden from writing religious scriptures or practicing religion. In fact, there are female religious leaders and scholars in Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, and probably also in Christianity and the Chinese religions. The amount of wisdom that has come from them - zero. A quick survey would reveal that all of those women were simply parroting what they heard from their teachers or read in a book.

We can't really make any definite statements about the potential of women, as all women are different and some will always be more extraordinary than the rest. Just how extraordinary a woman can become is, to me at least, still an open question.

The few women in each generation that I was referring to would be the Celia Greens and Esther Vilars of this world, or even the Emmiline Pankhursts and Voltairine de Cleyres. Women who have some depth to them and speak out against the status quo. Of course, the stands made by Voltairine de Cleyre and Emmiline Pankhurst were relatively easy, given that society was already laying down the foundations for the feminist movement to take place. If they had been born in a previous era, they would have found life far more difficult.

Rape is primarily an act of revenge

Not necessarily; the context would matter.

True, it might not apply to all rapes, but it is certainly my impression that revenge is the underlying theme in the majority of rapes. Not revenge against a particular woman as such, although no doubt this happens in some cases, but a kind of blind revenge against womankind as a whole. An overwhelming desire to avenge all the humiliation and hurt inflicted on him by women in the past; of being constantly rejected because perhaps he is too ugly, or too socially-inept, or too psychologically disturbed - in other words, a "loser". To have all these goddesses wafting invitingly all around him wherever he goes, constantly beckoning to him with their presentation and mannerisms, and yet not being allowed to reach out and touch them because he is not "good" enough....... it's understandable that it can become too much for some men and they snap.

To those men, women cease to have any individuality. They all seem to merge into this one oppressive whole. Violently humiliating one woman thus becomes equivalent to violently humiliating them all.

Male tennis is far more powerful, but it also displays a far larger amount of tactical intelligence and finesse. Roger Federer, a master of strategy and finesse, and physically not all that powerful, has been the dominant player for some years now. The same with golf. Tiger Woods has flair and finesse by the bucketload, far more so than the plodding, robotic nature of the top female golfers.

It is like watching the difference between 3-dimensional sport and 1-dimensional sport.

I think chess would be a far better example of how males and females differ in intellectual matters.

True, but physical sport is also a test of character, of knowing how to make the right decisions quickly under pressure. In many ways, it provides a more well-rounded examination than chess. But it's not that intellectual, no.

-

[Alex T. Jacob]

Celia Green. There is even a link to Kevin's Mysogeny Unlimited portal/site. (Under reference No. 18)

Pretty interesting woman.

[Jason]

On a scientific level, I would be doubtful whether there are actually masculine and feminine hormones

Testosterone and Estrogen

Androgens are the male sex hormones, of which testosterone is just one of many.

[Jason]

True, but physical sport is also a test of character, of knowing how to make the right decisions quickly under pressure. In many ways, it provides a more well-rounded examination than chess.

What about speed chess?

[David Quinn]

Impressive. But it surely pales in comparison to Chessboxing.....

-

[pointexter]

David,

false l am and all that l say.

How to let go of it all. l am starting to seriously doubt the capacity for it.

Why do you say that?-

In this context, I = self therefore false. Letting go is very difficult as false thinking is very difficult to break out of. l have palpable attachment to (and wanting of) things. Surrendering to the logical rational that reveals truth and living consistently to that is very different from the 'intellectual understanding.'

[jupiviv]

We can't really make any definite statements about the potential of women, as all women are different and some will always be more extraordinary than the rest. Just how extraordinary a woman can become is, to me at least, still an open question.

We can make the definite statement that women do not have much potential for genius based on current data. Of course that statement won't hold true for different data.

The few women in each generation that I was referring to would be the Celia Greens and Esther Vilars of this world, or even the Emmiline Pankhursts and Voltairine de Cleyres.

I know about the first two. Celia Green is definitely much more masculine than the common woman. She's probably the only woman to have approached philosophy. But her writings are only the beginning of wisdom, and even then she couldn't maintain it.

I'm not sure about Esther Vilar. I read the excerpt from her book on Kevin Solway's site, and I commend her for taking a bold stand against a general trend.

I read a bit about Emmiline Pankhurst in Wikipedia. I don't see anything extraordinary there either, apart from her name.

True, it might not apply to all rapes, but it is certainly my impression that revenge is the underlying theme in the majority of rapes.

I think it's more often an attempt to get sex without all the rituals, or in murder, an attempt to destroy the woman in one's sexuality.

I find it hard to distinguish between normal sex and rape, at least from the perspective of the man. In normal sex, the woman enjoys being degraded; in rape, she doesn't.

physical sport is also a test of character

So is chess. Chess is a very violent game, but only on a mental level. That's why Bobby Fischer said - "To win in chess you have to hate your opponent."

[Jason]

I find it hard to distinguish between normal sex and rape, at least from the perspective of the man.

You're a fucking moron. Here's a hint brainiac - rape is having sex with someone without their consent.

In normal sex, the woman enjoys being degraded; in rape, she doesn't.

Some of us more sexually-progressive people don't see sex as inherently degrading. You sound repulsively regressive.

[jupiviv]

rape is having sex with someone without their consent.

There is no such thing as consensual sex among humans. A consent requires a conscious agreement. Sex among humans is unconscious. It's impossible to consciously agree to perform an unconscious act.

Some of us more sexually-progressive people don't see sex as inherently degrading.

What does the term "sexually-progressive" even mean? You want to have more sex?

Anyways, I never said sex is inherently degrading. Neither reproduction nor pleasure is inherently bad/good.

[Animus]

I think the majority of rapes are date rapes performed by intoxicated college-age boys on slightly younger girls. Its not even really fair to use the word "rape" in most of these cases. Such a word seems to imply conscious forethought or derangement in the manner David described. Whereas, its probably a combination of sex-drive, lack of self-control, intoxication and a girl who's been taught to play the victim.

When I was 15 two different girls openly accused me of raping them. They did it to get attention and no such incident ever took place. We dated, we had sex, we broke up, and then they accused me of raping them. They must have felt used or something, but that wasn't my intention, I was still learning that girls/women can be a lot of fun until you have sex with them, then they often turn into psycho-hose-beasts ala Wayne's World.

[Jason]

rape is having sex with someone without their consent.

There is no such thing as consensual sex among humans. A consent requires a conscious agreement. Sex among humans is unconscious. It's impossible to consciously agree to perform an unconscious act.

But I can remember having sex, I'm sure of it! :P

You could argue that most if not all human actions have some un/sub-conscious element to them, not just sex. However, just like sex, these actions also have some degree of consciousness and intent associated with them, and thus allow conscious consent.

Some of us more sexually-progressive people don't see sex as inherently degrading.

What does the term "sexually-progressive" even mean? You want to have more sex?

To me it means, amongst other things, being developed beyond the idiotic widespread sexual morals and mores(often originating from religion) that characterize sex as being inherently degrading.

Anyways, I never said sex is inherently degrading. Neither reproduction nor pleasure is inherently bad/good.

You said that women enjoy being degraded in "normal sex", and I'm telling you that there are women(and men) who both enjoy sex and yet experience no degradation in it.

[David_Vogan]

You said that women enjoy being degraded in "normal sex", and I'm telling you that there are women(and men) who both enjoy sex and yet experience no degradation in it.

Calling the sexual act degrading (IMO) depends on the state of mind the individual is in; did the sexual act produce bad social relations for him/her? Will it ruin his/her relationship w/the other, or possibly others?

It all depends on if they are on the "high" or "low" of the rollercoaster; the low being the social rejection, whereas the high being the gain of emotional/chemical fulfillment (from sex).


((Nice to meet ya'll, I'm David))

[Jason]

You said that women enjoy being degraded in "normal sex", and I'm telling you that there are women(and men) who both enjoy sex and yet experience no degradation in it.

Calling the sexual act degrading (IMO) depends on the state of mind the individual is in; did the sexual act produce bad social relations for him/her? Will it ruin his/her relationship w/the other, or possibly others?

Hi David. I agree that for many people the specific circumstances of each sexual experience will determine if that particular sexual experience is degrading or not for them, but I also think that there are some people who essentially always experience any sex as degrading.

[Jeannie]

Please don't construe me as being scared off David.........

To be honest, you make me sick to my stomach.......let me get a big burley bloke to fuck you up the arse and see how '"studied" you would like to be........ yep, take pride in your "emotionless" state...it is easier that way. hey? Thank goodness you are not prone to "serial killer" tendencies as I imagine such pricks have no emotion or conscience.

What if I had a hate for Philosophers and chose to stab you in the back? Would you want that studied? Is that an acceptable thing to do? Revenge? LOL! No, an INABILITY to resolve the EMOTION behind the past betrayal!

It is oh so easy to sit back and judge all and sundry but not even attempt to get involved in these great achievements by men. Why bang on about them and then say all these endeavours really do not amount to enlightenment.

Why do you mention them when your sole intent is to "think"? Even if a woman reached your lofty heights, you would find a reason to bag her.

Dan was really "indignant" when I mentioned the word "misogynist" but when I take umbridge with something it is dismissed.

I laugh at the fact Dan said to me once "I think you would like David". Nothing could be further from your "absolute truths" In fact I think I can say the fact I dislike David and his shit IS indeed an Absolute truth for me. I want my brother back...the one I used to stargaze with all night and listen to cool music.

I think MANY aspects of society are dillusional...but I focus on things such as violence, rape, pedos, unjustice, fucked up Politicians................things I consider important...

Not whether a woman attends a meeting with makeup...what about the man who wears a suit and tie? What is the difference...and quite frankly...why the fuck does it bother you so much, considering they are NOT dragging you by the scruff of the neck to join them?