Prince could be right after all

[Pincho Paxton]

Pincho Paxron:

I notice you do not touch the evidence and instead decide to derail the discussion because you are a dodgeball master.

So you have studies a 2000 year old book,

1) The book of Daniel is older by centuries
2) The Bible is not a book, its a library.

This is exactly it - you are absolutely clueless and yet you have an opinion, how is that? You made two absurd statements in this part alone.

You have never studied the scripture have you?

with characters in it that may not have ever existed,

You really need to stick to something you know about because this is retarded dude. Do you know who Xerxes was? This was a name listed in the evidence given by Chikoka and you ignore that, why? To appear you are above it all and are so smart you can know almost zero about a subject and yet give your pronouncment?

All of us lowley tards need to understand your brilliance?

If someobody did that in one of your quantum threads you would be all roll eyes at them for their ignorance. This is what you are doing - you just have not yet realized it. You are looking like a muppet in scriptural and historical knowledge.

that has been translated in several different ways,

It is obvious you are no historian and yet you want to lecture - you are a hypocrite. Again a brain tilt.

I am a theologian and have studied ancient Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. In fact, I have taught these subjects and you sound like you need a Sunday school for preschool - seriously dude.

with scrolls that have only recently appeared.

Why don`t you just simply say "gee wiz, I do not know anything about this subject." and let it go?

Nope - gotta defend that ego huh? If anyone knows just a little and I mean a smidgen about scripture they would tell you the same thing. This is retarded.

The faces used in these books, illustrated later have no relationship to the real ancestry of the people portrayed in the books, and scriptures...

And you know this because................................?

Right - you should ask questions when it is time to learn because true Wisdom - begins in silence.

You cannot learn when you are pretending to know something that you and I both know - oh yes - I know for a fact - you are clueless on this subject.

and some of the mathematical statistics like getting two of every animal on a huge arc don't even add up properly.

That is the Book of Genesis not the - singular Book of Daniel. We were not talking about the ark or Noah ( of which a flood story was written in not only Hebrew but Akkadian, Hittite, Chinese, Aztec, Egyptian and Native American).

We were talking about a math equation given in the library known as the Bible by a man who was a world ruler in the Media/Persian empire. His name was Daniel, remember?

Why would I believe the timelines?, why would I believe that somebody can walk on water?

Why would you believe you have an opinion on a subject that you did not earn the right to have?

Statistically.. how many people have you seen walk on water? Have you ever studied water, have you even looked at its surface? It isn't even flat most of the time, it has waves on the top. Have you ever just walked on a surface that bounces all over the place? If God can make people walk on water why bother telling somebody to build an arc?

Who said logic had to make sense?

Have you understood, at the very minimum, the evidence yet?

Nope?


Don`t you get it? I know the scripture for realsies.
You see, this is a very strange dynamic. When the scripture or Jesus is brought up, you can witness all kinds of brain tilt.


If certain words trigger emotional responses, it would be wise to know why.

Sorry, but it would be nice if everything were simple for you. Have a God build everything, and then have a book that tells you all about it. It means that you don't have to think anymore, and can just read the book. Life isn't that simple. You want to believe in it, then half of your brain is lost to take up the study of useless information. God doesn't exist, Jesus didn't walk on water. The arc was never built. It is all a brain tilt like you say. The problem is that people defend this illogical nonsense. They shout at others on furums who don't believe any of it. You will believe in the Bible else I will shout at you. That's how it is passed on.

[Beingof1]

Sorry, but it would be nice if everything were simple for you. Have a God build everything, and then have a book that tells you all about it.

How do you know this? Do you have mental telepathy?

So now, you have supernatural powers and can peer into another mind?

It means that you don't have to think anymore, and can just read the book. Life isn't that simple. You want to believe in it,

This is retarded dude - you are really inflated with yourself aren`t you? You know nothing about this subject and yet - you are the expert regardless huh?

A true critical thinker demands evidence.
A false critical thinker rejects evidence.

Did you deal with the evidence that Chikoka gave? Nope - and still making announcments like you know what you are talking about. You are a child in understanding and wisdom and are playing - like in a big sandbox with other kids. Praying and hoping someone else notices your brilliance so you can fill that emptiness inside of your gut.

then half of your brain is lost to take up the study of useless information.

Then why do you claim to be an authority on scripture if it is useless information?
Brain tilt.

Your contradictions are beginning to show up - this is how I 'know' and am not guessing about you. I do not have to, you tell me everything.

God doesn't exist, Jesus didn't walk on water. The arc was never built.

How do you know?

Do you know the difference between your opinion and evidence?

Evidence is facts and facts are stubborn things unlike your opinion which can change and does on a dime. I notice you do not deal with pesky things like evidence and facts because your clueless opinion trumps all that - cause you is smarter than all evidence and facts.

Don`t you say you are the only one that understands infinity? If that is the case, you should be okey dokey with math, right?

Do you deal with the math equation offered in the evidence in this thread? Nope - still pontificating and pretending to know something when you are a child in understanding.

Grow up Pincho - really.

It is all a brain tilt like you say. The problem is that people defend this illogical nonsense. They shout at others on furums who don't believe any of it. You will believe in the Bible else I will shout at you. That's how it is passed on.

How do you know anything about a subject you have never studied?

How do you know anything about it at all?

[Pincho Paxton]

Sorry, but it would be nice if everything were simple for you. Have a God build everything, and then have a book that tells you all about it.

How do you know this? Do you have mental telepathy?

So now, you have supernatural powers and can peer into another mind?

It means that you don't have to think anymore, and can just read the book. Life isn't that simple. You want to believe in it,

This is retarded dude - you are really inflated with yourself aren`t you? You know nothing about this subject and yet - you are the expert regardless huh?

A true critical thinker demands evidence.
A false critical thinker rejects evidence.

Did you deal with the evidence that Chikoka gave? Nope - and still making announcments like you know what you are talking about. You are a child in understanding and wisdom and are playing - like in a big sandbox with other kids. Praying and hoping someone else notices your brilliance so you can fill that emptiness inside of your gut.

then half of your brain is lost to take up the study of useless information.

Then why do you claim to be an authority on scripture if it is useless information?
Brain tilt.

Your contradictions are beginning to show up - this is how I 'know' and am not guessing about you. I do not have to, you tell me everything.

God doesn't exist, Jesus didn't walk on water. The arc was never built.

How do you know?

Do you know the difference between your opinion and evidence?

Evidence is facts and facts are stubborn things unlike your opinion which can change and does on a dime. I notice you do not deal with pesky things like evidence and facts because your clueless opinion trumps all that - cause you is smarter than all evidence and facts.

Don`t you say you are the only one that understands infinity? If that is the case, you should be okey dokey with math, right?

Do you deal with the math equation offered in the evidence in this thread? Nope - still pontificating and pretending to know something when you are a child in understanding.

Grow up Pincho - really.

It is all a brain tilt like you say. The problem is that people defend this illogical nonsense. They shout at others on furums who don't believe any of it. You will believe in the Bible else I will shout at you. That's how it is passed on.

How do you know anything about a subject you have never studied?

How do you know anything about it at all?

There's no evidence to look at, there's nothing real to see, your wasting your time, and my time talking about lost history. It's gone, it's no more, it's in the past, and it can never come back. Papers, and books do not contain evidence of anything apart from the ink that was used at the time, and the paper that was used at the time. That's what you call evidence... reality.

[Beingof1]

There's no evidence to look at, there's nothing real to see, your wasting your time, and my time talking about lost history. It's gone, it's no more, it's in the past, and it can never come back.

LOL , then why do you have an opinion?
Chikoka just gave you 'hard facts and evidence'. Did you address that?
Nope - brain tilt

Look Pincho, I have enjoyed reading your thoughts and postulates on the quantum - seriously insightful - truly I mean that. You are way beyond your element here.

You just wiped away all of human history in one fell swoop. Did you know there is a historical methodology? Why, its very similar to the scientific method, you should look into it.

Papers, and books do not contain evidence of anything apart from the ink that was used at the time, and the paper that was used at the time. That's what you call evidence... reality.

Have you ever read E=MC2 and why?

Why would you bother reading this post? After all, its already history.

Yup - I have keep coming across this very unusual brain tilt when it comes to the scripture and Jesus. It is simply amazing to me that I have yet to meet very many at all, on both sides of the debate, that remain anywhere close to being objective or rational.

[Pincho Paxton]

There's no evidence to look at, there's nothing real to see, your wasting your time, and my time talking about lost history. It's gone, it's no more, it's in the past, and it can never come back.

LOL , then why do you have an opinion?
Chikoka just gave you 'hard facts and evidence'. Did you address that?
Nope - brain tilt

Look Pincho, I have enjoyed reading your thoughts and postulates on the quantum - seriously insightful - truly I mean that. You are way beyond your element here.

You just wiped away all of human history in one fell swoop. Did you know there is a historical methodology? Why, its very similar to the scientific method, you should look into it.

Papers, and books do not contain evidence of anything apart from the ink that was used at the time, and the paper that was used at the time. That's what you call evidence... reality.

Have you ever read E=MC2 and why?

Why would you bother reading this post? After all, its already history.

Yup - I have keep coming across this very unusual brain tilt when it comes to the scripture and Jesus. It is simply amazing to me that I have yet to meet very many at all, on both sides of the debate, that remain anywhere close to being objective or rational.

E=MC2 if true is happening now, science happens now, my own theories are happening now. Those books of yours happened a long time ago, and can't be repeated now. If Jesus went on a surf board you might have something we could test.

[chikoka]

Pincho:

You're not helping the course of this thread in any way.
I gave evidence and all you did was dismiss it, not address it.

I am an atheist.
What made me an atheist was that there was evidence that i considered which led me to an opinion.
I want to address this issue in the same manner.
this evidence should help me form an opinion on what reality is all about and i shouldn't be scared of where it leads me.

How has the opinion you have been influenced by the evidence i gave?

[Pincho Paxton]

Pincho:

You're not helping the course of this thread in any way.
I gave evidence and all you did was dismiss it, not address it.

I am an atheist.
What made me an atheist was that there was evidence that i considered which led me to an opinion.
I want to address this issue in the same manner.
this evidence should help me form an opinion on what reality is all about and i shouldn't be scared of where it leads me.

How has the opinion you have been influenced by the evidence i gave?

Prince could be right means that your evidence is about God. It's about prediction however. December 2012 is about prediction, I don't see the God factor. If the Bible, and the scrolls are about prediction then what science do you suggest goes in search of man's ability to predict future events? What you might find evidence for is time, as time would now be malleable by prediction. I don't believe in time, or God, but if you found evidence of time then I would have to rethink it.

[Jamesh]

I reckon evidence points more to Daniel having a small cock.

Daniel 8
1`In the third year of the reign of Belshazzar the king, a vision hath appeared unto me -- I Daniel -- after that which had appeared unto me at the beginning.

2 And I see in a vision, and it cometh to pass, in my seeing, and I [am] in Shushan the palace that [is] in Elam the province, and I see in a vision, and I have been by the stream Ulai.

3 And I lift up mine eyes, and look, and lo, a certain ram is standing before the stream, and it hath two horns, and the two horns [are] high; and the one [is] higher than the other, and the high one is coming up last.

4I have seen the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward, and no living creatures do stand before it, and there is none delivering out of its hand, and it hath done according to its pleasure, and hath exerted itself.

5`And I have been considering, and lo, a young he-goat hath come from the west, over the face of the whole earth, whom none is touching in the earth; as to the young he-goat, a conspicuous horn [is] between its eyes.

6 And it cometh unto the ram possessing the two horns, that I had seen standing before the stream, and runneth unto it in the fury of its power.

7 And I have seen it coming near the ram, and it becometh embittered at it, and smiteth the ram, and breaketh its two horns, and there hath been no power in the ram to stand before it, and it casteth it to the earth, and trampleth it down, and there hath been no deliverer to the ram out of its power.

8`And the young he-goat hath exerted itself very much, and when it is strong, broken hath been the great horn; and come up doth a vision of four in its place, at the four winds of the heavens.

9 And from the one of them come forth hath a little horn, and it exerteth itself greatly toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the beauteous [land];

If not, perhaps he was more of the L Ron Hubbard type. You know "OK, now I'm a known entity, and I can use this by making up spiritual type shit, though intermingled with a little bit of truth, to make it appear as if I have the answers, so that I can get others to follow me blindly".

At a young age, Daniel was carried off to Babylon where he was trained in the service of the court under the authority of Ashpenaz. Daniel became famous for interpreting dreams and rose to become one of the most important figures in the court and lived well into the reign of the Persian conquerors. He retained his high position there and had influence in the decision to restore the Jews to their homeland.

It's also interesting that beauty was a factor in his selection. The rich do tend to prefer young boys.

In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim (BC 606), Daniel and three other noble youths named Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah were among the Jewish young nobility carried off to Babylon, along with some of the vessels of the temple. Daniel and his three Jewish companions were subsequently evaluated and chosen for their intellect and beauty, to be trained as Chaldeans, who constituted the ranks of the advisors to the Babylonian court.

So all in all there is a half decent chance Daniel was a remorseful gay man (with Darius his lover), probably with the small mans disease where they learn to lie for the purpose of seeking power over others via backhand political means, and also probably a usurper (interpreting the dream, arranging for the kings killing).

[Blair]

prince wasn't right, prince was being a jackahole.

there is no god. nothing, religion is a poison that needs to be eliminated from humanity.

The human race is a tender thing, freakish in a way, because it's unique in the universe, still growing up, learning about ITSelf. One day perhaps, it will outgrow circumcision, wearing veils, turbans, the idea that flying a plane into a building will get you hot virgins, etc...

[Beingof1]

Pincho Paxton:

E=MC2 if true is happening now, science happens now, my own theories are happening now. Those books of yours happened a long time ago, and can't be repeated now. If Jesus went on a surf board you might have something we could test.

LOL - How do you 'know' E=MC2 is happening now?

I have conducted many, and I do mean many of the experiments made available by the scripture. You should try it and see the results for yourself then and only then might you have an opinion. That requires understanding what it is you are trying to understand.

You have not tried or tested the scripture and found it wanting - you haven`t tested or tried it at all. This is my point.

If E=MC2 is true - most of the principles in scripture are true but that takes understanding and wisdom not childish pronouncments.

Prince could be right means that your evidence is about God. It's about prediction however. December 2012 is about prediction, I don't see the God factor. If the Bible, and the scrolls are about prediction then what science do you suggest goes in search of man's ability to predict future events? What you might find evidence for is time, as time would now be malleable by prediction. I don't believe in time, or God, but if you found evidence of time then I would have to rethink it.

Chikoka just gave you 'hard evidence' - what are you not understanding?


Jamesh:

If not, perhaps he was more of the L Ron Hubbard type. You know "OK, now I'm a known entity, and I can use this by making up spiritual type shit, though intermingled with a little bit of truth, to make it appear as if I have the answers, so that I can get others to follow me blindly".

If you do not understand algebra - does that make it "intermingled with a little bit of truth, to make it appear as if I have the answers, so that I can get others to follow me blindly"?

It just means, rather than taking the evidence you can understand you decide to cloud the issue in difficult passages that take time because the author is using different symbols than you are used to using.

If someone speaks Chinese and you do not, does this make the other person and idiot? Not understanding something that has been around for thousands of years and studied by brilliant minds and claim it has no meaning - is retarded thinking.

The above passage is the prediction of Alexander the Great but how could you know that without understanding the language of the scripture?

It's also interesting that beauty was a factor in his selection. The rich do tend to prefer young boys.

This is the kind of *cough* 'logic' that is used to debunk - you cannot understand if you never try.

I notice you also ignore the math and the evidence that everyone can understand and so - you are also being two faced.

How is that working for you applying double standards that is?

Yup - brain tilt working overtime

So all in all there is a half decent chance Daniel was a remorseful gay man (with Darius his lover), probably with the small mans disease where they learn to lie for the purpose of seeking power over others via backhand political means, and also probably a usurper (interpreting the dream, arranging for the kings killing).

You are not trying to understand at all are you?

Deal with evidence as in math?

Nope

Another brain tilting


This is how I know that every single skeptic I have ever encountered is full of it because they refuse - and I mean refuse - to look at or deal with actual solid evidence .

[Pincho Paxton]

Chikoka just gave you 'hard evidence' - what are you not understanding?

I see absolutely no evidence of anything, not even close to soft evidence. I see a bunch of sentences which could have come from Biblefish translated into English. After being translated they are then passed through a program called Predictionary which searches endlessly for any possible meanings to the sentences. After 5 years searching it gives a list of possible future events. Then the timelines are messed around by a program called Timeshift which comes up with the best possible way to calculate dates that fit Predictionary the most effectively. By using these 3 programs together it is possible to predict the future...

In 2002 I predicted that Michael Jackson would die from suicide in 2004. I passed my prediction through the system, and indeed he died in 2009, possible suicide. Now Timeshift has gone to work, and says that I only said Next Year, and not actually 2004. It says that 'next year' means the next year that Micheal Jackson will start singing again, and it says that I didn't actually mean 2004.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=for ... =22168&b=2

Actually the dinosaur frozen in ice isn't bad either, because that baby mammoth was found last year as well it had a lump on it's head and was thought to be a slightly different species.

[Beingof1]

Chikoka just gave you 'hard evidence' - what are you not understanding?

I see absolutely no evidence of anything, not even close to soft evidence. I see a bunch of sentences which could have come from Biblefish translated into English. After being translated they are then passed through a program called Predictionary which searches endlessly for any possible meanings to the sentences. After 5 years searching it gives a list of possible future events. Then the timelines are messed around by a program called Timeshift which comes up with the best possible way to calculate dates that fit Predictionary the most effectively. By using these 3 programs together it is possible to predict the future...

In 2002 I predicted that Michael Jackson would die from suicide in 2004. I passed my prediction through the system, and indeed he died in 2009, possible suicide. Now Timeshift has gone to work, and says that I only said Next Year, and not actually 2004. It says that 'next year' means the next year that Micheal Jackson will start singing again, and it says that I didn't actually mean 2004.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=for ... =22168&b=2

Actually the dinosaur frozen in ice isn't bad either, because that baby mammoth was found last year as well it had a lump on it's head and was thought to be a slightly different species.

Click your heels together, stick your finger in your mouth, and count backwards and lets all pretend that 2004 is actually 2009 that way we are sure to prove the scripture wrong?


Don`t laugh folks - this is an average discussion I have had when the scripture or Jesus is brought up. The other participant is simply unaware of its intellectual suicide. If you think my methods are crude, try saving someones life who is hell bent on blowing their brains out.

Most of you have no idea but these kinds of arguments are used by the 'experts' to debunk the scripture. Simply mind blowing illusion beyond anything I have ever encountered. This dynamic alone tells me there is something to the scripture because the ego literally screams in illogical contortions and refuses to see reality when confronted.

Who are you Pincho, really?

[Pincho Paxton]

Chikoka just gave you 'hard evidence' - what are you not understanding?

I see absolutely no evidence of anything, not even close to soft evidence. I see a bunch of sentences which could have come from Biblefish translated into English. After being translated they are then passed through a program called Predictionary which searches endlessly for any possible meanings to the sentences. After 5 years searching it gives a list of possible future events. Then the timelines are messed around by a program called Timeshift which comes up with the best possible way to calculate dates that fit Predictionary the most effectively. By using these 3 programs together it is possible to predict the future...

In 2002 I predicted that Michael Jackson would die from suicide in 2004. I passed my prediction through the system, and indeed he died in 2009, possible suicide. Now Timeshift has gone to work, and says that I only said Next Year, and not actually 2004. It says that 'next year' means the next year that Micheal Jackson will start singing again, and it says that I didn't actually mean 2004.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=for ... =22168&b=2

Actually the dinosaur frozen in ice isn't bad either, because that baby mammoth was found last year as well it had a lump on it's head and was thought to be a slightly different species.

Click your heels together, stick your finger in your mouth, and count backwards and lets all pretend that 2004 is actually 2009 that way we are sure to prove the scripture wrong?


Don`t laugh folks - this is an average discussion I have had when the scripture or Jesus is brought up. The other participant is simply unaware of its intellectual suicide. If you think my methods are crude, try saving someones life who is hell bent on blowing their brains out.

Most of you have no idea but these kinds of arguments are used by the 'experts' to debunk the scripture. Simply mind blowing illusion beyond anything I have ever encountered. This dynamic alone tells me there is something to the scripture because the ego literally screams in illogical contortions and refuses to see reality when confronted.

Who are you Pincho, really?

The dates are never right.. the end of the world has been mentioned for about 4 different years at least, and now it's 2012. Alwats changing the way that the dates are worked out.

[Beingof1]

The dates are never right.. the end of the world has been mentioned for about 4 different years at least, and now it's 2012. Alwats changing the way that the dates are worked out.

What are you talking about?

The evidence given by Chikoka has dates - did you even look at the evidence?

Nope - still holding both your fingers in your ears.

[Pincho Paxton]

The dates are never right.. the end of the world has been mentioned for about 4 different years at least, and now it's 2012. Alwats changing the way that the dates are worked out.

What are you talking about?

The evidence given by Chikoka has dates - did you even look at the evidence?

Nope - still holding both your fingers in your ears.

What evidence? You keep saying evidence, I don't see any. I moved my prediction up by 5 years, and you explained it as 'Wizard Of Oz' treatment. Chikota moves 70 weeks into 490 years.. oh but now it's God not 'Wizard Of Oz'???

- This sets the time period at 70 weeks. It is generally accepted here that you must use the day = year prophecy formula (Num 14:34, Ezek 4:6), yielding a time period of 490 years from start to completion.

[Beingof1]

The dates are never right.. the end of the world has been mentioned for about 4 different years at least, and now it's 2012. Alwats changing the way that the dates are worked out.

What are you talking about?

The evidence given by Chikoka has dates - did you even look at the evidence?

Nope - still holding both your fingers in your ears.

What evidence? You keep saying evidence, I don't see any. I moved my prediction up by 5 years, and you explained it as 'Wizard Of Oz' treatment. Chikota moves 70 weeks into 490 years.. oh but now it's God not 'Wizard Of Oz'???

- This sets the time period at 70 weeks. It is generally accepted here that you must use the day = year prophecy formula (Num 14:34, Ezek 4:6), yielding a time period of 490 years from start to completion.

Now try not to get distracted okay?

1) The book of Daniel - previous to 1948 AD the oldest date we had for the text was 900AD, Guess what happened in 1948? The Dead Sea Scrolls were found with the almost entire (did you get that?) book of Daniel found and the text was word for word for word verbatim.
So the text being redacted is not possible because it passed a two thousand year test.

2) How do we know Daniel was using an encryption method?
He said so "shut up and seal the book."

3) It was obvious that Daniel was using the Jewish encryption method because he is Jewish.

Any other questions?

[Jamesh]

Beingof1

I notice you also ignore the math and the evidence that everyone can understand and so

There is neither ANY logical maths nor ANY evidence contained anywhere in Chikoka posts or links on this topic. The so called "interpretations" are extreme, they are interpretations taught by vested interests who commence from a false base, namely they believe first, then ensure that interpretations match that belief, ignoring anything that doesn’t.

Quite frankly the verses of Daniel are phrased like that of an obscurer. The words are akin to that of an astrologer, in that they are indirect and allow multiple interpretations.

In relation to the “predictions”, regardless of the wonky maths employed to make timelines fit, they are of the general type that would have occurred in the past - hence there would have been prior examples for Daniel to manipulate into some form of future prophecy - with the ebb and flow of nations in conflict or for whom those in power whom reach Romanesque relative levels of wealth and ego-gratification. To create prophecy’s like those, one just needs a bit of history, a knowledge of current foreign affairs, some imagination, a bit of philosophical knowledge, an ability and desire to lie, and a desire to influence and manipulate others. Like I said, it’s no different to L Ron - or Enron for that matter :)

There is also very little non-biblical evidence for many of the dates later on - and biblical evidence simply cannot be trusted to any significant degree. For example, no one really has proven Jesus’s existence to an adequate degree. For all we know "Jesus" as seen by Christians could be like the Buddha, wherein the actions and words and myths relating to a few different wise or influential people are combined into one entity, so as to make that entity seem extraordinary to the point of being supernatural. This is the same sort of power ploy that so many leaders of that time, and in differing cultures since such as the Incas, have utilised.

Yes, I haven’t read much of it, or tried to understand it in the manner you two want it to mean, as it clearly would be an utter waste of my time.

[Beingof1]

Beingof1

I notice you also ignore the math and the evidence that everyone can understand and so

There is neither ANY logical maths nor ANY evidence contained anywhere in Chikoka posts or links on this topic. The so called "interpretations" are extreme, they are interpretations taught by vested interests who commence from a false base, namely they believe first, then ensure that interpretations match that belief, ignoring anything that doesn’t.

Here is what it actually says:

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks:

Quite frankly the verses of Daniel are phrased like that of an obscurer. The words are akin to that of an astrologer, in that they are indirect and allow multiple interpretations.

Here is what it actually says:

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks:

In relation to the “predictions”, regardless of the wonky maths employed to make timelines fit, they are of the general type that would have occurred in the past - hence there would have been prior examples for Daniel to manipulate into some form of future prophecy - with the ebb and flow of nations in conflict or for whom those in power whom reach Romanesque relative levels of wealth and ego-gratification. To create prophecy’s like those, one just needs a bit of history, a knowledge of current foreign affairs, some imagination, a bit of philosophical knowledge, an ability and desire to lie, and a desire to influence and manipulate others. Like I said, it’s no different to L Ron - or Enron for that matter :)

Here is what it actually says:

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks:

There is also very little non-biblical evidence for many of the dates later on - and biblical evidence simply cannot be trusted to any significant degree.

27 AD is not a disputed time frame.

For example, no one really has proven Jesus’s existence to an adequate degree.

Over 5000 texts, 40 brand new books that have not been seen in two thousand years in the Nag Hammadi find that confirm the story of Jesus and still - this ignorance is rampant.

You are not the only one Jim - the 'experts' deny the literal mountain of evidence for Jesus. He only has more proof, empirical that is, than any other in history that has ever lived.

But digressing again is the same old burnt out tactic that is truly a weary to the heart. Avoid, confuse, and obfuscate so that you can be 'cumfy' in your skepticism is not helping you at all.

I know, do something novel and different - try to understand.

For all we know "Jesus" as seen by Christians could be like the Buddha, wherein the actions and words and myths relating to a few different wise or influential people are combined into one entity, so as to make that entity seem extraordinary to the point of being supernatural. This is the same sort of power ploy that so many leaders of that time, and in differing cultures since such as the Incas, have utilised.

Do you mean for all you know?

Because I really and truly do know: because I have actually taken the many years it has for me to verify - not just take someone elses word on it - but actually did the work to find out one way or another. I do not have faith nor am I a blind believer, I do not have to because I know the facts and evidence.

Did you know there are thousands of historical digs in the Middle East?
Did you know they have uncovered hundreds of thousands of relics, manuscripts, texts, cities, houses, etc.etc.etc.?
Did you know that of all the hundreds of thousands of thousands of finds - not one - not one has contradicted the scripture?
Did you know that the scripture has been historically validated time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time?

These are facts and evidence - but evidence is such a pesky thing when you have a world view that is more important than a small an insignifigant thing like actual reality. Much better to live in la la land.

According to the 'expert critics' David, you know the king dude, was a creation of Israeli propaganda and there was not a scrap of evidence for him or Solomon because the only evidence was in that stupid book called the Bible. They found two engravings in the mid nineties made by an Assyrian king and some hard headed 'experts' still denied he was a real person.

They found David`s palace a few years ago - on to the next insipid nitpicking that if there is no hard evidence - the Bible is always, not sometimes, but always wrong. You should join that crowd - real smart bunch.

Yes, I haven’t read much of it, or tried to understand it in the manner you two want it to mean, as it clearly would be an utter waste of my time.

Probably not because you don`t want to take the time - but you do have the time to spout your opinion - I see.


Here is the part you said was vauge, read like a astrologer chart and all that. Why don`t we actually look with real eyes instead of covering em both up while we read, watta ya say, you think actually looking at the text might help?

Na - why bother right? You already know its screwed up before you read it huh?

Chikoka:

The prophecy in Daniel 9: 24-27 reads:

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."



It is the most amazing and accurate prophecy about the coming of the Messiah. The timeline begins in 457 BC with the decree of Artaxerxes to rebuild the temple. Ezra 7:8-17 shows that the decree went out in the seventh year of the reign of Artzxerxes, so history can confirm the year.

In Bible prophecy they work on the day for a year system, Ezekiel 4:6 “...I have appointed thee each day for a year” so therefore 70 weeks, 490 days is 490 years.

This prophecy is split into three sections. Seven weeks (49 years, which is the time it took to rebuild the temple), 62 weeks (434 years) till Messiah the Prince. This takes us to the year the year AD27, which is the year that Jesus was "annointed" and began His ministry,

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Beingof1, you might have researched facts and evidence but you've not yet mastered the logical method that could provide you with the proper conclusion that it's all inconclusive at best.

Your own contemporary experiences are way more interesting to bring to the table. But as you know, they are very subjective, not taking place in any controlled circumstances, and not witnessed by impartial third parties. In many cases you'll also discover that alternative unusual explanations are often not explored in depth.

Faith trumps historical facts and evidence. It's actually very hard, even for historians, to be absolutely sure what happened and how it happened in the past, any past. But if there's no reason to suspect forgery, because of a likely content, it's often accepted as consensual history. Always open to revision by the way.

This is not the case with your type of inquiry: it never seems open for revision, only expansion and reaffirmation. You're therefore a man of faith, not of logic. But for some reason you have a desire to claim the latter, too.

[Beingof1]

Beingof1, you might have researched facts and evidence but you've not yet mastered the logical method that could provide you with the proper conclusion that it's all inconclusive at best.

What conclusion is that? That you cannot ever have a conclusion?

Yup - you do spin like a top.

Your own contemporary experiences are way more interesting to bring to the table. But as you know, they are very subjective, not taking place in any controlled circumstances, and not witnessed by impartial third parties. In many cases you'll also discover that alternative unusual explanations are often not explored in depth.

Right Diebert, I have shared my contemporary experiences here before. Everyone(most), including you, without knowing all the facts, just like you are doing now, wanted to explain to me my very own experiences. I have witnessed the literal defying and suspension of Newtonian physics - I am sure you will want to tell me now I was deluded, am lying, was entirely subjective and I got confused, there were no impartial observers and on and on because it conflicts with your world view.

For me to deny my experience is insanity and I will not lie just to make you feel better and so you can put the universe into a neat little Diebert box - deal with it.

And how do you 'know' my experiences were not witnessed by impartial third parties because they most certainly were - so drop the blah blah blogging.

Here is a truth finder for you - ask questions instead of making assumptions - that is not wise in fact its dumb.

Faith trumps historical facts and evidence. It's actually very hard, even for historians, to be absolutely sure what happened and how it happened in the past, any past. But if there's no reason to suspect forgery, because of a likely content, it's often accepted as consensual history. Always open to revision by the way.

Yup - your faith that its all a bunch of hewy trumps the historical facts and evidence, I most certainly agree you are unable to remain impartial when it comes to the scripture.

This is not the case with your type of inquiry: it never seems open for revision, only expansion and reaffirmation. You're therefore a man of faith, not of logic. But for some reason you have a desire to claim the latter, too.

Then provide a single - like I have asked you in several threads - just one - single piece of evidence that overturns the text. I can fill up three pages with archeological finds, facts, and evidence. Did you get that yet after years of discussion?

Jericho has walls that fell down and Sodom was found wholey burnt - on and on and on it goes.

[Pincho Paxton]

Beingof1, you might have researched facts and evidence but you've not yet mastered the logical method that could provide you with the proper conclusion that it's all inconclusive at best.

What conclusion is that? That you cannot ever have a conclusion?

Yup - you do spin like a top.

Your own contemporary experiences are way more interesting to bring to the table. But as you know, they are very subjective, not taking place in any controlled circumstances, and not witnessed by impartial third parties. In many cases you'll also discover that alternative unusual explanations are often not explored in depth.

Right Diebert, I have shared my contemporary experiences here before. Everyone(most), including you, without knowing all the facts, just like you are doing now, wanted to explain to me my very own experiences. I have witnessed the literal defying and suspension of Newtonian physics - I am sure you will want to tell me now I was deluded, am lying, was entirely subjective and I got confused, there were no impartial observers and on and on because it conflicts with your world view.

For me to deny my experience is insanity and I will not lie just to make you feel better and so you can put the universe into a neat little Diebert box - deal with it.

And how do you 'know' my experiences were not witnessed by impartial third parties because they most certainly were - so drop the blah blah blogging.

Here is a truth finder for you - ask questions instead of making assumptions - that is not wise in fact its dumb.

Faith trumps historical facts and evidence. It's actually very hard, even for historians, to be absolutely sure what happened and how it happened in the past, any past. But if there's no reason to suspect forgery, because of a likely content, it's often accepted as consensual history. Always open to revision by the way.

Yup - your faith that its all a bunch of hewy trumps the historical facts and evidence, I most certainly agree you are unable to remain impartial when it comes to the scripture.

This is not the case with your type of inquiry: it never seems open for revision, only expansion and reaffirmation. You're therefore a man of faith, not of logic. But for some reason you have a desire to claim the latter, too.

Then provide a single - like I have asked you in several threads - just one - single piece of evidence that overturns the text. I can fill up three pages with archeological finds, facts, and evidence. Did you get that yet after years of discussion?

Jericho has walls that fell down and Sodom was found wholey burnt - on and on and on it goes.

What does finding places from the Bible have to to with evidence of God, and prediction of future events? There are sure to be some facts in the Bible, as there are facts in all books. There are many real places in 'Around The World In 80 days', but it never happened in real life. Can't you see that you are using nothing as your evidence?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... tml?cat=37

Even the article says this........

Like most things within the Bible, Sodom and Gomorrah remains one of those stories that must be taken as a matter of faith. That faith may not understand the exact "how" of the event or even the precise reason behind it. It only recognizes that such acts of God are possible.

And even that broken down end statement says "acts of God", but cheats by not just saying "If God actually ever existed in the first place." Which means that even by trying to be scientific about the facts the writer accidentally included a confirmation of God in their closing statement.

[Beingof1]

Diebert:
This is not the case with your type of inquiry: it never seems open for revision, only expansion and reaffirmation. You're therefore a man of faith, not of logic. But for some reason you have a desire to claim the latter, too.

BO1:
Then provide a single - like I have asked you in several threads - just one - single piece of evidence that overturns the text. I can fill up three pages with archeological finds, facts, and evidence. Did you get that yet after years of discussion?

Jericho has walls that fell down and Sodom was found wholey burnt - on and on and on it goes.[/quote]

What does finding places from the Bible have to to with evidence of God,

Oh I don`t know Pincho. Perhaps you would like to know whether the author told the truth or not on the facts and evidence by verifying it by details, maybe, sometimes, part of the time, all of the time?

Are we looking for the truth or not?

You do not appear to me as one who is actually making an investigation because you are repeatedly discarding the facts. Until you can grasp this, as in, wrap your noodle around that, good luck.

and prediction of future events? There are sure to be some facts in the Bible, as there are facts in all books. There are many real places in 'Around The World In 80 days', but it never happened in real life. Can't you see that you are using nothing as your evidence?

I see - I ask you why we keep jumping all over the board and repeatedly, as in over and over, asked you to stick to the evidence and now you want to preyend - as in a fantasy - it was actually me all along.

Grow up Pincho and learn to embrace reality over your images in the mind of how it should be. You cannot superimpose Pincho over reality, it takes - as Movingasalways tried to share with you - the unconditioned mind. It is truly harmless because whether you believe this or not right now, I hope I can help you in some way for your journey. I do not want to do anything but help - if you could believe that, we would be much farther ahead.


http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... tml?cat=37

This is evidence that the scripture was factually true, yes? The scripture does draw a conclusion but that is because of the logical facts given by the experience.

The conclusion is up to you, what you must see is the evidence as to the facts is true, yes?

Even the article says this........

Like most things within the Bible, Sodom and Gomorrah remains one of those stories that must be taken as a matter of faith. That faith may not understand the exact "how" of the event or even the precise reason behind it. It only recognizes that such acts of God are possible.

And even that broken down end statement says "acts of God", but cheats by not just saying "If God actually ever existed in the first place." Which means that even by trying to be scientific about the facts the writer accidentally included a confirmation of God in their closing statement.[/quote]

You just pulled out evidence that the scripture is factually true. You can do this with over 80% of the Jewish scriptures. What does that tell you?

You draw your own conclusion about God. What you must see, that is important to the scripture is truth. Truth is paramount with the Jewish and Christian scriptures. This is difficult for you to believe right now and I am not asking you to.

If you crosscheck the thousands of historical evidence and facts, they all match like a huge puzzle. All the 'facts and evidence' line up. There are no historical contradictions, do you get this part so far? If you do not believe me, and I did not take anyones word for it, look for yourself and you will see for yourself.

[Pincho Paxton]

Diebert:
This is not the case with your type of inquiry: it never seems open for revision, only expansion and reaffirmation. You're therefore a man of faith, not of logic. But for some reason you have a desire to claim the latter, too.

BO1:
Then provide a single - like I have asked you in several threads - just one - single piece of evidence that overturns the text. I can fill up three pages with archeological finds, facts, and evidence. Did you get that yet after years of discussion?

Jericho has walls that fell down and Sodom was found wholey burnt - on and on and on it goes.

What does finding places from the Bible have to to with evidence of God,

Oh I don`t know Pincho. Perhaps you would like to know whether the author told the truth or not on the facts and evidence by verifying it by details, maybe, sometimes, part of the time, all of the time?

Are we looking for the truth or not?

You do not appear to me as one who is actually making an investigation because you are repeatedly discarding the facts. Until you can grasp this, as in, wrap your noodle around that, good luck.

and prediction of future events? There are sure to be some facts in the Bible, as there are facts in all books. There are many real places in 'Around The World In 80 days', but it never happened in real life. Can't you see that you are using nothing as your evidence?

I see - I ask you why we keep jumping all over the board and repeatedly, as in over and over, asked you to stick to the evidence and now you want to preyend - as in a fantasy - it was actually me all along.

Grow up Pincho and learn to embrace reality over your images in the mind of how it should be. You cannot superimpose Pincho over reality, it takes - as Movingasalways tried to share with you - the unconditioned mind. It is truly harmless because whether you believe this or not right now, I hope I can help you in some way for your journey. I do not want to do anything but help - if you could believe that, we would be much farther ahead.


http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... tml?cat=37

This is evidence that the scripture was factually true, yes? The scripture does draw a conclusion but that is because of the logical facts given by the experience.

The conclusion is up to you, what you must see is the evidence as to the facts is true, yes?

Even the article says this........

Like most things within the Bible, Sodom and Gomorrah remains one of those stories that must be taken as a matter of faith. That faith may not understand the exact "how" of the event or even the precise reason behind it. It only recognizes that such acts of God are possible.

And even that broken down end statement says "acts of God", but cheats by not just saying "If God actually ever existed in the first place." Which means that even by trying to be scientific about the facts the writer accidentally included a confirmation of God in their closing statement.

You just pulled out evidence that the scripture is factually true. You can do this with over 80% of the Jewish scriptures. What does that tell you?

You draw your own conclusion about God. What you must see, that is important to the scripture is truth. Truth is paramount with the Jewish and Christian scriptures. This is difficult for you to believe right now and I am not asking you to.

If you crosscheck the thousands of historical evidence and facts, they all match like a huge puzzle. All the 'facts and evidence' line up. There are no historical contradictions, do you get this part so far? If you do not believe me, and I did not take anyones word for it, look for yourself and you will see for yourself.

But the point is.. if you are writing a book you do include facts in it anyway, even if its fictional. The Exorcist, Titanic, The Entity, The Amityville Horror, are all fictional stories, but include facts. You may say that the Titanic was true, but the movie wasn't. The Bible isn't proved by burning buildings, or falling walls, as they are interesting subjects to include in a fictional book.

[Beingof1]

Pincho:

But the point is.. if you are writing a book you do include facts in it anyway, even if its fictional. The Exorcist, Titanic, The Entity, The Amityville Horror, are all fictional stories, but include facts. You may say that the Titanic was true, but the movie wasn't. The Bible isn't proved by burning buildings, or falling walls, as they are interesting subjects to include in a fictional book.

Apples and oranges.

We are not talking about a single author who sits down and writes a fictional story with make believe people. We are not even close to being in the same ballpark. These were real people that you could talk to. In most cases of the New Testaments they gave names and addresses and you could have a chat.

You cannot have a library of books - as in plural - spanning 1500 years with 40 different authors and all - without exception - confirm all known historical crosschecks that match Egyptian, Semitic, Assyrian, Hittite, Chaldean, Moabite, etc.

The scripture lists 40 kings in chronological order. These have been confirmed by external sources. To just sit down and make up 40 kings and getting them all in the right historical spot is not possible unless you are telling the truth. Are you getting this yet?

Unless, whoa - could it be? They are telling the truth.The scripture claims to be factually true at all times. As I said, draw your own conclusion as to God.

Look at the Dead Sea Scrolls - look at the Nag Hammadi - look at the evidence for yourself.

You will see, the texts are impeccable as to the authenticity of the historical.

[Pincho Paxton]

Pincho:

But the point is.. if you are writing a book you do include facts in it anyway, even if its fictional. The Exorcist, Titanic, The Entity, The Amityville Horror, are all fictional stories, but include facts. You may say that the Titanic was true, but the movie wasn't. The Bible isn't proved by burning buildings, or falling walls, as they are interesting subjects to include in a fictional book.

Apples and oranges.

We are not talking about a single author who sits down and writes a fictional story with make believe people. We are not even close to being in the same ballpark. These were real people that you could talk to. In most cases of the New Testaments they gave names and addresses and you could have a chat.

You cannot have a library of books - as in plural - spanning 1500 years with 40 different authors and all - without exception - confirm all known historical crosschecks that match Egyptian, Semitic, Assyrian, Hittite, Chaldean, Moabite, etc.

The scripture lists 40 kings in chronological order. These have been confirmed by external sources. To just sit down and make up 40 kings and getting them all in the right historical spot is not possible unless you are telling the truth. Are you getting this yet?

Unless, whoa - could it be? They are telling the truth.The scripture claims to be factually true at all times. As I said, draw your own conclusion as to God.

Look at the Dead Sea Scrolls - look at the Nag Hammadi - look at the evidence for yourself.

You will see, the texts are impeccable as to the authenticity of the historical.

How many people get bluffed by this? It's an interesting brain wash if nothing else.