Prince could be right after all

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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chikoka
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Prince could be right after all

Post by chikoka »

I was raised a Seventh day Adventist and though many of you think we
are weird (e.g. David) i beleive we (they really) are the most logical
theists around.
Here is what has been slowing my complete aconversion ;

Prophecy.

SDA's have many prophecys that they claim have been fullfilled to the
letter (to the exact year) even when spanning millenia.

Here is one i'd like you guys to crack so i can ease my mind.:)
Its called the 2300 day prophecy.

Heres the prophecy:

[img]http://biblelight.net/diagram.gif
[/img]

http://biblelight.net/diagram.gif

http://biblelight.net/dan927.htm


THE 70 WEEK PROPHECY OF DANIEL


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Daniel 9:24-27 is one of the most misinterpreted passages in Bible prophecy today. Virtually all your hear today about end time events hinges on the correct interpretation of these few verses. I will present what I believe to be the correct interpretation, which is quite different from what you generally hear.

Dan 9:24

This verse sets the goals of the 70 week prophecy of Daniel.

(A) "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,"

- This sets the time period at 70 weeks. It is generally accepted here that you must use the day = year prophecy formula (Num 14:34, Ezek 4:6), yielding a time period of 490 years from start to completion.

- The word determined here actually means "cut off". This 70 weeks are cut off from, or begin at the same time as, the larger 2300 day (year) prophecy of Dan 8:14, which has as it's focus the cleansing of the sanctuary in heaven, the beginning of Judgment. So both the 70 week (490 year) and the 2300 day (year) prophecy begin at the same date. Note that you can not arbitrarily apply the year for a day principle in one case and not another, you must remain consistent. Dan 8:26 strongly hints that the 2300 day prophecy in verse 14 is not just 2300 days, but many days more than it literally indicates. This would also support using year instead of day.

(B) "to finish the transgression (rebellion),"

- Meaning to the Jews: end your transgression of (rebellion against) God's Law and return to obedience.
- Alludes to the victory of Jesus Christ over transgression at the cross.

(C) "and to make an end of sins,"

- Meaning to the Jews: repent from sin.
- Alludes to the victory of Jesus Christ over sin at the cross.

(D) "and to make reconciliation for iniquity,"

- Meaning to the Jews: Atonement for sins through sacrificial temple ceremonies (symbolic of Jesus).
- Alludes to the reconciliation for iniquity by Jesus Christ at the cross.

(E) "and to bring in everlasting righteousness,"

- Alludes to the death of Jesus the Messiah at the cross making everlasting righteousness available to all with faith. Without His death at the cross we are all condemned to the second death. By His death on the cross, the requirement of the Law was met and His everlasting righteousness established. Psa 119:142

(F) "and to seal up the vision and prophecy,"

- To complete Jesus' divine mission according to the prophecy, at the exact appointed times. The exact date of Jesus' baptism was predicted by Daniel and every prophecy about the crucifixion, including Daniel's which gave the exact date, was sealed (fulfilled) during the 70 weeks.

- Included in this is the 2300 day (year) prophecy of Dan 8:14, which is the longest prophetic period in the Bible. At it's conclusion, it will be the last specific prophetic date that can be calculated with accuracy, hence there is a finishing (sealing) of this vision of Daniel and an end to all prophetic dates. Because Daniel predicted the historical events of the 70 weeks with complete accuracy, we can also trust that the 2300 day (year) prophecy is just as accurate.

(G) "and to anoint the most Holy."

- As the earthly temple was anointed in Lev 8:10-11, so the heavenly temple was anointed by Jesus as he assumed the role of our High Priest, on his return to heaven. Also, Jesus himself was anointed as the Messiah at His Baptism (Mat 3:16, Mark 1:9, Luke 3:21).

So verse 24 has set the goals of the 70 week prophecy of Daniel. The twofold focus of the prophecy: first on the Jews reconciling themselves with God within the appointed time (490 years), and second, Jesus being baptized and paying the price of sin at the cross for us and becoming our High Priest. Note that there is nothing in verse 24 referring to the millennial kingdom, or the antichrist, or a seven year tribulation and there is nothing to indicate the 490 years are anything but a continuous period of time that ended in 34 A.D.

Dan 9:25

(A) "Know therefore and understand, that"

(B) "from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem"

- There were actually four commands issued that can be located in scripture and must be considered:

(1) Ezra 1:1-14, 1st year of Cyrus, dated to 537 B.C.
(2) Ezra 6:1-12, 2nd year of Darius dated to 520 B.C.
(3) Ezra 7:1-27, 7th year of Artaxerxes dated to 457 B.C.
(4) Neh 2:1-8, 20th year of Artaxerxes dated to 444 B.C.

DECREE DATE 69 WEEKS
483 YEARS 70 WEEKS
490 YEARS
Ezra 1 537 B.C. 54 B.C. 47 B.C.
Ezra 6 520 B.C. 37 B.C. 30 B.C.
Ezra 7 457 B.C. 27 A.D. 34 A.D.
Neh 2 444 B.C. 40 A.D. 47 A.D.

Given the generally accepted age of 30 for Jesus (Luke 3:23) at His baptism in the 15th year of Tiberius (Luke 3:1) which can be established as 27 A.D., only one of the decrees fits, that being the 3rd given in 457 B.C. The others are either too early or too late to be the command referred to. So starting at 457 B.C. would place the year of the crucifixion, (which happened 3 1/2 years after His baptism), at 31 A.D., and the end of the 70 weeks, or 490 years, at 34 A.D.

- Using this same starting date of 457 B.C. for the 2300 day (year) prophecy of Dan 8:14, you arrive at the date 1844 A.D. as the date for the start of Judgment in heaven (the cleansing of the sanctuary). In the Temple ceremonies of the Jews, this event occurred only once each year, at Yom Kippur, a type for judgment day. It has been underway in heaven since 1844 and continues at this moment. This is why at the second coming there appears to be no judgment - the Saints both living and dead meet Jesus in air (the rapture) and accompany him to the New Jerusalem in heaven, there to reign with Jesus for the 1000 years (John 14:2-3). For more information on the timing of the second advent rapture, see The truth about the rapture.

(C) "unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks:"

- After 69 weeks the Messiah will be anointed by God as such. This happened at the Baptism of Jesus by John when the Holy Spirit descended as a dove and God the father announced Jesus as his Son (Acts 10:37-38). The end of the 69 weeks is mentioned by Jesus in Mark 1:15 when He says "The time is fulfilled". Counting down 69 weeks of years (483) you arrive at 27 A.D. Futurists generally try to tie this event to the triumphal entry into Jerusalem. Yet Jesus entry into Jerusalem was NOT when He was first recognized as the Messiah, except perhaps by the people of Jerusalem. God the Father and the Holy Spirit anointed him as the Messiah at his Baptism - the entry into Jerusalem pales in comparison to this holy event.

(D) "the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."

- The rebuilding of Jerusalem would be rebuilt despite opposition. (Ezra 4:4,5 and Neh 4 + 6)

Dan 9:26

(A) "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:"

- Following the 62 weeks, the Messiah would be crucified for our sins. The 62 weeks, as we saw in verse 25 above, ended in His baptism. The exact time of the crucifixion is not specified here, but it is in verse 27. In effect, this is saying that the crucifixion will follow the anointing.

(B) "and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;"

- First, the prince that shall come can apply to Titus, who tried to protect the Temple, but his soldiers destroyed it anyway against his explicit orders. This does fit the historical evidence.

- Alternately, this can be interpreted as Jesus being the prince that shall come. Following this logic, the unbelieving Jews through their rebellion against God and Roman rule, brought about the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem. The city and sanctuary were destroyed in 70 A.D. by the Roman general Titus, crushing the Jewish rebellion, fulfilling this prophecy. The unbelieving Jews had rejected the ultimatum contained in the 70 week prophecy, and their destruction and scattering in 70 A.D. was the result. Both interpretations appear to fit.

(C) "and the end thereof shall be with a flood,"

- According to contemporary historians, the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple was swift like a flood.

(D) "and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

- One interpretation continues to apply this to the war with Rome and the destruction of 70 A.D.

- It may also mean that until the end of the war with Satan and sin, Jerusalem and the Temple will be desolate (lack the presence of God), their house being desolate - Mat 23:38 and Luke 13:35. To date this appears to be the case. See also verse 27(C).

Dan 9:27

(A) "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:"

- Some would claim that the "he" could not refer to Jesus since his ministry on earth was only 3 1/2 years in length. They try to apply this to the antichrist (the prince who shall come in verse 26) and a 7 year peace treaty (covenant) with the Jews. Note the following, verses in red were spoken by Jesus-

(NIV) Mat 26:28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

(KJV) Mark 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

(NIV) Mark 14:24 "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many," he said to them.

(KJV) Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

- During this 70th week, the Gospel was preached only to the Jews to confirm the 70 week prophecy (Matt 10:5, 6 and Acts 11:19).

- The event that ends the 70 weeks is the stoning of Stephen as found in Acts 7:59. At that point (Acts 22:20-21) the Gospel was no longer preached exclusively to the Jews. (See also Acts 10:45, 11:18, 13:46, 14:27, 15:9, 18:6). The Jews are no longer the exclusively chosen people of God (Gal 3:28). See also the parable of Mark 12:1 and Luke 20:9. The original husbandmen (the Jews) of the vineyard are rejected, and replaced, never to tend the vineyard again. This does not mean they have been rejected as individuals. They can still be saved by faith in Jesus like anyone else. Promises made to the Jewish nation have been rejected by the Jews due to their unbelief, so the fulfillment of those promises will be made to those of faith, regardless of national origin (Gal 3:29).

- So the final week of the 70 week period left to the Jews continues unbroken from the baptism of Jesus in 27 A.D. thru to 34 A.D., to confirm and fulfill (seal up) the prophecy of Daniel.

(B) "and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,"

- In the middle of the week, in 31 A.D., Jesus is crucified, bringing an end to the meaning of the temple sacrifices, which were a type (shadow) of his sacrifice at the cross. This is confirmed by the tearing of the veil in the Temple at the instant of his death, exposing the most holy place (Mat 27:51, Mark 15:38, Luke 23:45). The fact that Temple ceremonies continued until 70 A.D. is irrelevant. There was no longer any meaning in what they were doing-

(C) "and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation,"

- The temple in Jerusalem will remain desolate, lacking the presence of God, until the end of time. (Mat 23:38-39, Luke 13:35)

- Whether the Jews rebuilt the temple or not is irrelevant. It will remain in desolation. In fact, rebuilding the Temple and a resumption of Temple sacrifices would be the ultimate manifestation of unbelief and a complete rejection of Jesus Christ, the Messiah. It would be an abomination.

(D) "and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

- This has an initial application with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 A.D. The Roman armies first surrounded Jerusalem in 66 A.D. and then withdrew for some unexplained reason. The believing Jews understood Mat 24:15 to apply to them and they fled the city at this opportunity. The Roman armies soon returned and laid siege to Jerusalem, resulting in it's fall in 70 A.D. At that time thousand of Jews were slaughtered, not one of them was Christian. So this part of verse 27 finds fulfillment in 70 A.D. It may also be interpreted that Jerusalem and the temple will remain desolate of God until the execution of Judgment on the wicked, beginning with the last 7 plagues. That is to say Jesus will not dwell with His people until He does so after the second coming when the righteous dead are raised and the living are transformed, and they all join Him in the clouds (Rev 21:22).

Chiasm of Daniel 9:25-27

CONCLUSION

The focus of Dan 9:24-27 is the fulfillment of prophecy with regard to Jesus as Messiah, His baptism and death on the cross. It is also an ultimatum to the Jews to repent and accept the Gospel message of Jesus the Christ (something they failed to do).

Note that unlike futurists, the interpretation I offer does not find any reference to the Antichrist, or a 7 year peace treaty signed with the Jews, or a broken peace treaty / desecration of the Temple by the antichrist, or a 7 year tribulation. I think the evidence presented here shows that the focus of the 70 weeks of Daniel is a fixed 490 year ultimatum to the Jews and a prediction of the baptism and crucifixion of Jesus, as well as pointing to the start of judgment at the end of the 2300 years. Since the Jews did not repent of their transgressions, and rejected the Christ, their Temple and city were destroyed and the survivors scattered. So now the Gospel is preached to one and all, which began at the end of the 70th week, in 34 A.D.

Note this excerpt from the respected Presbyterian minister Matthew Henry's Commentary, dated 1708-1710:

The book of Daniel, Verses 20-27

An answer was immediately sent to Daniel's prayer, and it is a very memorable one. We cannot now expect that God should send answers to our prayers by angels, but if we pray with fervency for that which God has promised, we may by faith take the promise as an immediate answer to the prayer; for He is faithful that has promised. Daniel had a far greater and more glorious redemption discovered to him, which God would work out for his church in the latter days. Those who would be acquainted with Christ and his grace, must be much in prayer. The evening offering was a type of the great sacrifice Christ was to offer in the evening of the world: in virtue of that sacrifice Daniel's prayer was accepted; and for the sake of that, this glorious discovery of redeeming love was made to him. We have, in verses ( 24-27 ), one of the most remarkable prophecies of Christ, of his coming and his salvation. It shows that the Jews are guilty of most obstinate unbelief, in expecting another Messiah, so long after the time expressly fixed for his coming. The seventy weeks mean a day for a year, or 490 years. About the end of this period a sacrifice would be offered, making full atonement for sin, and bringing in everlasting righteousness for the complete justification of every believer. Then the Jews, in the crucifixion of Jesus, would commit that crime by which the measure of their guilt would be filled up, and troubles would come upon their nation. All blessings bestowed on sinful man come through Christ's atoning sacrifice, who suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God. Here is our way of access to the throne of grace, and of our entrance to heaven. This seals the sum of prophecy, and confirms the covenant with many; and while we rejoice in the blessings of salvation, we should remember what they cost the Redeemer. How can those escape who neglect so great salvation!

As you can see from the above quote, Matthew Henry, a Protestant writing in the early 18th century, knew nothing of a gap between the 69th and 70th week, and he knew nothing of a 7 year peace treaty with the antichrist in verse 27.

The futurist interpretation of this passage denies the prophecy of Jesus' baptism in verse 24. It also denies His crucifixion in verse 27 and applies it instead to the antichrist, in an astounding twisting of scripture. I submit the futurist's house is built on sand and will not stand scrutiny. They do not have a case, they have a relatively recent fairy tale designed to obscure the truth and spread confusion, whether they know it or not. The author of that futurist fairy tale is the Catholic Church, specifically a Spanish Jesuit priest by the name of Francisco Ribera (1537-1591). During the counterreformation he concocted the futurist interpretation to deflect reformist claims that the Papacy was the Antichrist of scripture. There is apparently no evidence that the futurist interpretation predates the Catholic counterreformation. It was intended as a smoke screen, and it still works today to a large degree.

See The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism.

It is interesting to note that, generally speaking, the same people that advocate the pretribulation rapture also hold to the futurist interpretation of Dan 9:24-27. Both are spurious interpretations, fables, that only confuse and deceive. Again, I do not wish to offend anyone, I am simply trying to let you see through the smoke, and see the truth.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.biblelight.net
Animus
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Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by Animus »

You can't work out a prophecy after it has happened. Its too easy to make it work. Here is a prophecy. Dan Rowden is going to upload part two of his youtube series this weekend.
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chikoka
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Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by chikoka »

It interpretation was clear though.

It mentions the messiah's annointment date, crucifiction and that 40 weeks were to be for daniels people.

We dont have broadband here in Zimbabwe but here is a youtube video that i googled but could not watch myself .
Hope it helps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u6nFALImag

I think there are other parts to watch , not sure.
Last edited by chikoka on Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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chikoka
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Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by chikoka »

Heres a clearer version of the prophecy in text:

http://ezinearticles.com/?What-is-Danie ... &id=265146

The prophecy in Daniel 9: 24-27 reads:

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Daniel had been earnestly praying for his people, the Jews, who were in captivity in Babylon when he was given this vision.

It is the most amazing and accurate prophecy about the coming of the Messiah. The timeline begins in 457 BC with the decree of Artaxerxes to rebuild the temple. Ezra 7:8-17 shows that the decree went out in the seventh year of the reign of Artzxerxes, so history can confirm the year.

In Bible prophecy they work on the day for a year system, Ezekiel 4:6 “...I have appointed thee each day for a year” so therefore 70 weeks, 490 days is 490 years.

This prophecy is split into three sections. Seven weeks (49 years, which is the time it took to rebuild the temple), 62 weeks (434 years) till Messiah the Prince. This takes us to the year the year AD27, which is the year that Jesus was "annointed" and began His ministry, and finally there is another week, 7 years.

It says that in the midst of the final seven years the Messiah will be "cut off, but not for himself" (showing that Jesus would die after 3 1/2 years of ministry) and would cause the "sacrifice and oblation to cease". Jesus' one time perfect sacrifice on Calvary put an end to the need for animal sacrifices once and for all.

What happened in the final 3 1/2 years of this prophecy? The gospel message was still preached exclusively to the Jews, but at the end of this period, Stephen was stoned, marking the final decision of the Jewish leaders to reject Christ as the Messiah and from this time on the gospel was taken to the gentiles.

This prophecy also predicted the destruction of the temple “the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary” which occurred in AD70, and signified the final “desolation”. The destruction of both the first and the second temple were both as a result of the people’s rejection and disobedience to God.

This event signified that the sacred appointment of the Jewish people as God’s chosen ones was forever annulled. Through Christ a new covenant was made, that all who followed Him would be called the children of God and seed of Abraham. Galations 3:29 “And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”

What a wonderful display of the power of God these prophecies are. To foretell almost 600 years ahead of time, when He would send His son to this world to die for our sins. How Jesus would “confirm the covenant” and cease the need for performing the sacrifices that had been put in place as a shadow of the fulfilling work of our Lord.

Debra Lohrere is the author of Peace, Prophecy and False Fire http://www.lulu.com/content/333221 and Christian Investing and Money Management http://www.lulu.com/content/378757

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/?expert=Debra_Lohrere
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chikoka
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Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by chikoka »

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Pincho Paxton
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Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by Pincho Paxton »

Prophecy's don't prove the existence of God even if they come true. All they prove is that man can guess things ahead of time... nothing to do with God. The Bible was written by man, Jesus was a man, and the prophecy's were made by man, and came true about man. No sign of God anywhere.
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chikoka
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Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by chikoka »

Pincho Paxton wrote:Prophecy's don't prove the existence of God even if they come true. All they prove is that man can guess things ahead of time... nothing to do with God. The Bible was written by man, Jesus was a man, and the prophecy's were made by man, and came true about man. No sign of God anywhere.
Prophecy's don't prove the existence of God even if they come true. All they prove is that man can guess things ahead of time... nothing to do with God. The Bible was written by man, Jesus was a man, and the prophecy's were made by man, and came true about man. No sign of God anywhere.
Guess!!!??
All these exact dates and all these different prophecy's?

Using Occams razor thats not the simplest explanation.
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Pincho Paxton
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Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by Pincho Paxton »

chikoka wrote:
Pincho Paxton wrote:Prophecy's don't prove the existence of God even if they come true. All they prove is that man can guess things ahead of time... nothing to do with God. The Bible was written by man, Jesus was a man, and the prophecy's were made by man, and came true about man. No sign of God anywhere.
Prophecy's don't prove the existence of God even if they come true. All they prove is that man can guess things ahead of time... nothing to do with God. The Bible was written by man, Jesus was a man, and the prophecy's were made by man, and came true about man. No sign of God anywhere.
Guess!!!??
All these exact dates and all these different prophecy's?

Using Occams razor thats not the simplest explanation.
Well I do it all the time because I read the Tarot cards. I think so far I have got about 200 things right. We are made from billions of creatures inside our bodies, and these creatures created us, as they created DNA etc. There is no reason for us to believe that our thoughts are entirely our own thoughts. Your own blood is made from billions of creatures. There are silly little clues given to us for us to figure out...

The Brain
The Memory

The Aether Membrane

Mem (memory) Brain (Brane)....Membrane.
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chikoka
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Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by chikoka »

Seriously pincho.
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Pincho Paxton
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Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by Pincho Paxton »

chikoka wrote:Seriously pincho.
The problem is that when something creates you, even if it wants to hide from you where you came from, and who you are, it will always want to use words which are associated with their origin, even by accident.

The spider watches you with 8 eyes, sitting in its web...

Spyder

Spy device

Spy(spy) Device (De)

I know it's silly, but if Heaven created us, it would want us to at least have a world that makes sense after we die. It hides a lot of the questions in our surroundings. You get to Heaven, and the whole place is monitored for example by walking robots which look like spiders.. spy devices.

Stepping out from Earth it is strange to go into a world which makes no sense to you at all.


The Bible is just a book of rules for you to follow. God would be an acronym for the people that lead you Government Of Decision or something similar.

I don't exactly stick with this idea however. I prefer to treat the world as though it is real.
Last edited by Pincho Paxton on Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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chikoka
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Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by chikoka »

Pincho Paxton wrote:The spider watches you with 8 eyes, sitting in its web...

Spyder

Spy device

Spy(spy) Device (De)
Good one. lol
IJesusChrist
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Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by IJesusChrist »

... Why do people still follow the Bible? It's ridiculous. Take a step back, jeez.
To think or not to think.
Animus
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Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by Animus »

“People do not believe lies because they have to, but because they want to” - Malcolm Muggeridge
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Dan Rowden
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Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by Dan Rowden »

Animus wrote:You can't work out a prophecy after it has happened. Its too easy to make it work. Here is a prophecy. Dan Rowden is going to upload part two of his youtube series this weekend.
Hey, how the hell did you know that!? :)
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Jamesh
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Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by Jamesh »

Thinking there is merit in stuff like that, is like thinking you can win a game of chess agaisnt a grandmaster without knowing where the opponents pieces are.

The past is simply not accessible enough. One does not know enough about how these religious documents were put together, what background material was used or adjusted for the storyline, what was discarded because it didn't match what the authors wanted the docs to mean and so on. Reliability as to what is true and what is not is just far too low.

Why the fuck some god creature would place things in code is also a question that needs to be asked. Why would a god play such games - such a selection scheme certainly completely ignores cause and effect. I would feel utter hatred for such a thing, if it were real.

Could it simply be that a certain cabal liked to feel special, and superior because they had this hidden knowledge that others did not. The whole idea of a god judging people is just sheer lunancy, unless that god is some form of alien, in which case the aim should be to negate it, than worshipping it.

Your interest in these irrelevances stem from things like:

a) your religious upbringing - some of the falsities you learnt have not been cleansed by what you have since learn about reality

b) everybody's need to have at least some sort of answer, and folks lean to those that are accepted by the particular herd sector they are most attached to

c) Many people like puzzles
Animus
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Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by Animus »

Dan Rowden wrote:
Animus wrote:You can't work out a prophecy after it has happened. Its too easy to make it work. Here is a prophecy. Dan Rowden is going to upload part two of his youtube series this weekend.
Hey, how the hell did you know that!? :)
"know" is a pretty strong word, let's call it intuition. ; )
Gurrb
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Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by Gurrb »

ah religion. man created god in such a way that god created man. in this case the egg came first, and the chicken doesn't even exist. human will not hatch (die) and become something greater. this egg will remain an egg until it is no longer an egg.
Beingof1
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Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by Beingof1 »

Prince is expanding as we all do.

Animus wrote:You can't work out a prophecy after it has happened. Its too easy to make it work. Here is a prophecy. Dan Rowden is going to upload part two of his youtube series this weekend.
If you meet someone at an airport and they ask "so what are you in town for"?
"I am here to visit my family and they live in Glendale, accomplish a joint venture agreement with Boeing , go and smell the water hiking, and set down by the beach."

Three days later while hiking you run into the same person.
" I thought you would be here."
"How did you know that?
" I connected all the dots and made a guesstimate that you would be here along the water bank in Glendale."


Pincho Paxton wrote:Prophecy's don't prove the existence of God even if they come true. All they prove is that man can guess things ahead of time... nothing to do with God. The Bible was written by man, Jesus was a man, and the prophecy's were made by man, and came true about man. No sign of God anywhere.
Yup - every person I know has been predicted to the very year of incarnation 400 plus years beforehand. I do not think you understand the math - look again at what the Chikpka uses for evidence.

Chikoka:
The prophecy in Daniel 9: 24-27 reads:

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."



It is the most amazing and accurate prophecy about the coming of the Messiah. The timeline begins in 457 BC with the decree of Artaxerxes to rebuild the temple. Ezra 7:8-17 shows that the decree went out in the seventh year of the reign of Artzxerxes, so history can confirm the year.

In Bible prophecy they work on the day for a year system, Ezekiel 4:6 “...I have appointed thee each day for a year” so therefore 70 weeks, 490 days is 490 years.

This prophecy is split into three sections. Seven weeks (49 years, which is the time it took to rebuild the temple), 62 weeks (434 years) till Messiah the Prince. This takes us to the year the year AD27, which is the year that Jesus was "annointed" and began His ministry,
Do you understand this part?

Now:
the year that Jesus was "annointed" and began His ministry, and finally there is another week, 7 years.

It says that in the midst of the final seven years the Messiah will be "cut off, but not for himself" (showing that Jesus would die after 3 1/2 years of ministry) and would cause the "sacrifice and oblation to cease".
Look again at the evidence - its math.

Not opinions, understand the evidence


Here is another from the same writer.

"But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book(encrypt)

until the time of the end (epoch event of ageless culmination),

many shall run to and fro through the world (world travel will increase dramatically)

and knowledge shall increase (exponentially)."

(Daniel 12:4)

Now this prophecy is accurate but no math is possible ,yes?

In fact; Daniel made the predictions of world empires - you should read it before dissing it cause that is not how to understand something at all. He was kinda a smart guy, just third most powerful person in the world at that time - knucklheaded camel rider that bark at the moon - not.
Beingof1
Posts: 745
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:10 pm

Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by Beingof1 »

Pincho Paxton wrote:
chikoka wrote:Seriously pincho.
The Bible is just a book of rules for you to follow. God would be an acronym for the people that lead you Government Of Decision or something similar.

I don't exactly stick with this idea however. I prefer to treat the world as though it is real.
Really?

How many times have you read the scripture?
User avatar
Pincho Paxton
Posts: 1305
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:05 am

Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by Pincho Paxton »

Beingof1 wrote:Prince is expanding as we all do.

Animus wrote:You can't work out a prophecy after it has happened. Its too easy to make it work. Here is a prophecy. Dan Rowden is going to upload part two of his youtube series this weekend.
If you meet someone at an airport and they ask "so what are you in town for"?
"I am here to visit my family and they live in Glendale, accomplish a joint venture agreement with Boeing , go and smell the water hiking, and set down by the beach."

Three days later while hiking you run into the same person.
" I thought you would be here."
"How did you know that?
" I connected all the dots and made a guesstimate that you would be here along the water bank in Glendale."


Pincho Paxton wrote:Prophecy's don't prove the existence of God even if they come true. All they prove is that man can guess things ahead of time... nothing to do with God. The Bible was written by man, Jesus was a man, and the prophecy's were made by man, and came true about man. No sign of God anywhere.
Yup - every person I know has been predicted to the very year of incarnation 400 plus years beforehand. I do not think you understand the math - look again at what the Chikpka uses for evidence.

Chikoka:
The prophecy in Daniel 9: 24-27 reads:

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."



It is the most amazing and accurate prophecy about the coming of the Messiah. The timeline begins in 457 BC with the decree of Artaxerxes to rebuild the temple. Ezra 7:8-17 shows that the decree went out in the seventh year of the reign of Artzxerxes, so history can confirm the year.

In Bible prophecy they work on the day for a year system, Ezekiel 4:6 “...I have appointed thee each day for a year” so therefore 70 weeks, 490 days is 490 years.

This prophecy is split into three sections. Seven weeks (49 years, which is the time it took to rebuild the temple), 62 weeks (434 years) till Messiah the Prince. This takes us to the year the year AD27, which is the year that Jesus was "annointed" and began His ministry,
Do you understand this part?

Now:
the year that Jesus was "annointed" and began His ministry, and finally there is another week, 7 years.

It says that in the midst of the final seven years the Messiah will be "cut off, but not for himself" (showing that Jesus would die after 3 1/2 years of ministry) and would cause the "sacrifice and oblation to cease".
Look again at the evidence - its math.

Not opinions, understand the evidence


Here is another from the same writer.

"But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book(encrypt)

until the time of the end (epoch event of ageless culmination),

many shall run to and fro through the world (world travel will increase dramatically)

and knowledge shall increase (exponentially)."

(Daniel 12:4)

Now this prophecy is accurate but no math is possible ,yes?

In fact; Daniel made the predictions of world empires - you should read it before dissing it cause that is not how to understand something at all. He was kinda a smart guy, just third most powerful person in the world at that time - knucklheaded camel rider that bark at the moon - not.
The best maths evidence is man writes fiction... 7 Billion books on fiction.
Beingof1
Posts: 745
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:10 pm

Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by Beingof1 »

Pincho Paxton wrote:
Beingof1 wrote:Prince is expanding as we all do.

Animus wrote:You can't work out a prophecy after it has happened. Its too easy to make it work. Here is a prophecy. Dan Rowden is going to upload part two of his youtube series this weekend.
If you meet someone at an airport and they ask "so what are you in town for"?
"I am here to visit my family and they live in Glendale, accomplish a joint venture agreement with Boeing , go and smell the water hiking, and set down by the beach."

Three days later while hiking you run into the same person.
" I thought you would be here."
"How did you know that?
" I connected all the dots and made a guesstimate that you would be here along the water bank in Glendale."


Pincho Paxton wrote:Prophecy's don't prove the existence of God even if they come true. All they prove is that man can guess things ahead of time... nothing to do with God. The Bible was written by man, Jesus was a man, and the prophecy's were made by man, and came true about man. No sign of God anywhere.
Yup - every person I know has been predicted to the very year of incarnation 400 plus years beforehand. I do not think you understand the math - look again at what the Chikpka uses for evidence.

Chikoka:
The prophecy in Daniel 9: 24-27 reads:

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."



It is the most amazing and accurate prophecy about the coming of the Messiah. The timeline begins in 457 BC with the decree of Artaxerxes to rebuild the temple. Ezra 7:8-17 shows that the decree went out in the seventh year of the reign of Artzxerxes, so history can confirm the year.

In Bible prophecy they work on the day for a year system, Ezekiel 4:6 “...I have appointed thee each day for a year” so therefore 70 weeks, 490 days is 490 years.

This prophecy is split into three sections. Seven weeks (49 years, which is the time it took to rebuild the temple), 62 weeks (434 years) till Messiah the Prince. This takes us to the year the year AD27, which is the year that Jesus was "annointed" and began His ministry,
Do you understand this part?

Now:
the year that Jesus was "annointed" and began His ministry, and finally there is another week, 7 years.

It says that in the midst of the final seven years the Messiah will be "cut off, but not for himself" (showing that Jesus would die after 3 1/2 years of ministry) and would cause the "sacrifice and oblation to cease".
Look again at the evidence - its math.

Not opinions, understand the evidence


Here is another from the same writer.

"But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book(encrypt)

until the time of the end (epoch event of ageless culmination),

many shall run to and fro through the world (world travel will increase dramatically)

and knowledge shall increase (exponentially)."

(Daniel 12:4)

Now this prophecy is accurate but no math is possible ,yes?

In fact; Daniel made the predictions of world empires - you should read it before dissing it cause that is not how to understand something at all. He was kinda a smart guy, just third most powerful person in the world at that time - knucklheaded camel rider that bark at the moon - not.
The best maths evidence is man writes fiction... 7 Billion books on fiction.
Why do you offer an opinion on something you have never studied or contemplated?

So you offer an opinion because you don`t like it?

I see, real honest scientific and objective reasoning goin on, huh?
User avatar
Pincho Paxton
Posts: 1305
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:05 am

Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by Pincho Paxton »

Beingof1 wrote:
Pincho Paxton wrote: The best maths evidence is man writes fiction... 7 Billion books on fiction.
Why do you offer an opinion on something you have never studied or contemplated?

So you offer an opinion because you don`t like it?

I see, real honest scientific and objective reasoning goin on, huh?
So you have studies a 2000 year old book, with characters in it that may not have ever existed, that has been translated in several different ways, with scrolls that have only recently appeared. The faces used in these books, illustrated later have no relationship to the real ancestry of the people portrayed in the books, and scriptures... and some of the mathematical statistics like getting two of every animal on a huge arc don't even add up properly. Why would I believe the timelines?, why would I believe that somebody can walk on water? Statistically.. how many people have you seen walk on water? Have you ever studied water, have you even looked at its surface? It isn't even flat most of the time, it has waves on the top. Have you ever just walked on a surface that bounces all over the place? If God can make people walk on water why bother telling somebody to build an arc?
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Tomas
Posts: 4328
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:15 am
Location: North Dakota

Pincho could be right after all

Post by Tomas »

Pincho Paxton wrote:Statistically.. how many people have you seen walk on water? Have you ever studied water, have you even looked at its surface? It isn't even flat most of the time, it has waves on the top. Have you ever just walked on a surface that bounces all over the place? If God can make people walk on water why bother telling somebody to build an arc?
Sweet, couldn't have said it better myself.

So many of those bible stories are for the weak-minded, feminized men that inhabit those religious orders. They've nothing better to do than repeat their drivel to the same uninformed populace far and wide. Pagans, the lot of them.

PS - Walking on water .. does 'skating on thin ice' count in the equation?
Don't run to your death
Beingof1
Posts: 745
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:10 pm

Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by Beingof1 »

Pincho Paxron:

I notice you do not touch the evidence and instead decide to derail the discussion because you are a dodgeball master.
So you have studies a 2000 year old book,
1) The book of Daniel is older by centuries
2) The Bible is not a book, its a library.

This is exactly it - you are absolutely clueless and yet you have an opinion, how is that? You made two absurd statements in this part alone.

You have never studied the scripture have you?
with characters in it that may not have ever existed,
You really need to stick to something you know about because this is retarded dude. Do you know who Xerxes was? This was a name listed in the evidence given by Chikoka and you ignore that, why? To appear you are above it all and are so smart you can know almost zero about a subject and yet give your pronouncment?

All of us lowley tards need to understand your brilliance?

If someobody did that in one of your quantum threads you would be all roll eyes at them for their ignorance. This is what you are doing - you just have not yet realized it. You are looking like a muppet in scriptural and historical knowledge.
that has been translated in several different ways,
It is obvious you are no historian and yet you want to lecture - you are a hypocrite. Again a brain tilt.

I am a theologian and have studied ancient Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. In fact, I have taught these subjects and you sound like you need a Sunday school for preschool - seriously dude.
with scrolls that have only recently appeared.
Why don`t you just simply say "gee wiz, I do not know anything about this subject." and let it go?

Nope - gotta defend that ego huh? If anyone knows just a little and I mean a smidgen about scripture they would tell you the same thing. This is retarded.
The faces used in these books, illustrated later have no relationship to the real ancestry of the people portrayed in the books, and scriptures...
And you know this because................................?

Right - you should ask questions when it is time to learn because true Wisdom - begins in silence.

You cannot learn when you are pretending to know something that you and I both know - oh yes - I know for a fact - you are clueless on this subject.
and some of the mathematical statistics like getting two of every animal on a huge arc don't even add up properly.
That is the Book of Genesis not the - singular Book of Daniel. We were not talking about the ark or Noah ( of which a flood story was written in not only Hebrew but Akkadian, Hittite, Chinese, Aztec, Egyptian and Native American).

We were talking about a math equation given in the library known as the Bible by a man who was a world ruler in the Media/Persian empire. His name was Daniel, remember?
Why would I believe the timelines?, why would I believe that somebody can walk on water?
Why would you believe you have an opinion on a subject that you did not earn the right to have?
Statistically.. how many people have you seen walk on water? Have you ever studied water, have you even looked at its surface? It isn't even flat most of the time, it has waves on the top. Have you ever just walked on a surface that bounces all over the place? If God can make people walk on water why bother telling somebody to build an arc?
Who said logic had to make sense?

Have you understood, at the very minimum, the evidence yet?

Nope?


Don`t you get it? I know the scripture for realsies.
You see, this is a very strange dynamic. When the scripture or Jesus is brought up, you can witness all kinds of brain tilt.


If certain words trigger emotional responses, it would be wise to know why.
Animus
Posts: 1351
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:31 pm

Re: Prince could be right after all

Post by Animus »

If you meet someone at an airport and they ask "so what are you in town for"?
"I am here to visit my family and they live in Glendale, accomplish a joint venture agreement with Boeing , go and smell the water hiking, and set down by the beach."

Three days later while hiking you run into the same person.
" I thought you would be here."
"How did you know that?
" I connected all the dots and made a guesstimate that you would be here along the water bank in Glendale."
Precisely, but I guess I'm not so good at it, I don't see Dan's 2nd video online by the prophecy-by-date.
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