The Non-Spatiality Criterion - Part two

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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jufa
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The Non-Spatiality Criterion - Part two

Post by jufa »

The Non-Spatiality Criterion - Part two

From: Nobody Sent: 11/29/2005 10:04 AM

What is the basis for the mind, Jufa? -Noboby

jufa...The basis for the mind is Life. It is within Life that all awareness of mind occur.
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As Peter pointed out in 556, a black hole can pretty much rid one of any consciousness, but I would say that any point in infinity is a black hole. Nothing would ever pass through the event horizon, which is a complete cancellation of forces, and it seems to imply that any type of specific existence is stilled and doesn't really exist. It would only appaear to exist because we are observing the diffentiated effects surrounding the event horizon. In other words, our true mind would be likened to the still event horizon -- 0
kelvin and non-existent. - Nobody

jufa...S. Hawkings one vehemently stated nothing could escape from the black hole. Here resently he had to recant this statement because it was found that radiation escapes therefrom. This means that if radiation can escape, then the black hole is not a totally
consuming happening. This means that passing through the event horizion is no longer the focal point. Instead it is the method of how does the radiation find a means of escape. This means there has to be an event more powerful than that which is stated to be a cancellation, for if cancellation was a reality, then it would cancel out the radiation, and therefore radiation could not escape from the black hole.

It is the escape which directs us to the fact that the black hole is not invincible, and also that there are force working within it that will not allow it be be all consuming, thus the power of cancellation you have described above.

jufa
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From: Nobody Sent: 11/29/2005 1:20 PM

If information is stored and transmitted by light which requires no space and time, and particles and consciousness are shared amidst the Universe, why can't you live again as another brain when your brain ceases to be. How would you know that you cannot live as
another, or that you are not your great, great, great~ grandfather? - Nobody

jufa...Because you can never go out of yourself. You may take on a different form, but you maintain the consciousness of mind of your thinking.

jufa
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From: Nobody Sent: 11/29/2005 2:41 PM

We seem to be now offering two separate forms of universal functioning, although maybe not exactly different. In that I suggest that within the Life that you suggest our mind is with all its awareness, is death and nonexistence of the truest kind which is required for infinite consciousness to arise via differentiation. We both say that without differentiation, consciousness is impossible because it is the means whereby we are able to translate and interpret information. So if we are to suggest this and extend it to infinite proportions, then the most infinitesimal effects that are a necessary part of our reality can only be differentiated by the absolute -- which is the "nothing" that you rightfully say doesn't
exist. Both states have to work together in order for everything to exist in the sense that everything becomes nothing and nothing becomes everything at the absolute level. The fluctuations in between create the myriad forms, but can't do it without the two
states it seems to me.

And I don't know about the radiating black holes. I think the radiation is a result of the cancellation, just like the annihilation of particles and antiparticles don't disappear but release gamma rays. I suggested that every conceivable point of infinity is a black hole, and your assessment of our mind as being an outward view would play a role in this in the sense that it would translate the radiation from other points around us. But to say that black holes swallow things, or that light escapes would be to give dimensions to black holes and I don't think they have any. -Noody
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From: Nobody Sent: 11/29/2005 2:44 PM

["jufa...Because you can never go out of yourself. You may take on a different form, but you maintain the consciousness of mind of your thinking."]

Nobody...We're back to square one then, or circle one. Is my consciousness the same as everyone else's. Or can my consciousness create another biological form to exist through.....after death?
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From: Seph Sent: 11/29/2005 5:05 PM

Nobody #576, I don't think it logical to proclaim with certainty anything while we claim we don't know all there is to know. I couldn't agree more. The best we can do is work on a scale of probability.
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From: Seph Sent: 11/29/2005 5:19 PM

Nobody #576, And I suggest based on aforementioned hypotheses that the mind is prime and controls and creates the body within a set of parameters, So would you say that at the moment a sperm does it's thing with an egg, a mind comes into existence? Personally, I suspect that a mind does not arise until sometime later in embryonic development; at least sometime after the brain begins to develop.
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From: Nobody Sent: 11/29/2005 6:15 PM
585,

I think you're probably right, Seph, but I also think language barriers form concerning the "mind" and the "Mind" and their differences and dependence upon each other.

I'm not sure I equate the little human mind with the human brain functioning, I don't think I implied this, especially at the point of conception, but I would revert to those fluctuations that are governed by varying laws that create our bodies mostly in a neuro- vegetative state -- we are essentially genetically-trapped automatons that are reborn over and over as different biological forms depending on how much we cling to worldy matters. This is all occurring at the sub-conscious level, and I agree our consciousness comes perhaps later on.

The mind in and of itself, I think I have suggested, doesn't exist. It is that absolute state at our center that is the source of differentiating things that exist for a given time. The brain stores as memories what is differentiated through our sensory means of consciousness, and these memories or acquired knowledge that have been called part of the mind are de facto impediments to obtaining the goal of transcendence whereby the necessary absolute knowledge is a given. And I suggest it is necessary simply because partial knowledge and power isn't enough to overcome the natural laws that force us to hold onto to guilt and egos -- this is what all the religious stories are about imo. There is only one thing that can "save" us from our long-held worldy matters, and that is nothing at all, which is what I propose is the true Mind and is what you truly are.
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Recommend Message 590 of 1000 in Discussion

From: NicOfTime Sent: 11/29/2005 7:12 PM

There is only one thing that can "save" us from our long-held worldy matters, and that is nothing at all, which is what I propose is the true Mind...

I suspect that, instead of nothing at all "saving" us from "worldly matters", it's actually worldly matters "saving" us from nothing at all.... and is what you truly are.

And, no, what I really am is what I really am. I am not nothing at all -- but rather a mind. As long as one has a mind, the "true" mind is the one he has. Nothing at all is only the "true" mind to those who are nothing at all.
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From: Jufa Sent: 11/30/2005 2:13 AM

["We seem to be now offering two separate forms of universal functioning, although maybe not exactly different. In that I suggest that within the Life that you suggest our mind is with all its awareness, is death and nonexistence of the truest kind which is required for infinite consciousness to arise via differentiation." - Nobody]

jufa...Here you have used words of suggestion without a platform which you have just brung to Life. This very truth negates your proposition, --being death cannot find existence in Life, without death being an extension of Life itself. In other words, how can death survive in Life without Life being the source of death? This means death is not as view by the mind, which mind cannot look beyond the wall of self-limitation which precludes it from seeing beyond the visible. Death is a shedding of the visible, but the mind is invisible, so how can the mind even phathom death?

Nobody...We both say that without differentiation, consciousness is impossible because it is the means whereby we are able to translate and interpret information. So if we are to suggest this and extend it to infinite proportions, then the most infinitesimal effects that are a necessary part of our reality can only be differentiated by the absolute -- which is the "nothing" that you rightfully say doesn't exist. Both states have to work together in order for everything to exist in the sense that everything becomes nothing and nothing becomes everything at the absolute level. The fluctuations in between create the myriad forms, but can't do it without the two states it seems to me.

jufa...Here again you place words to represent a difference in something compared to nothingness. But something has volume, substance, and essence, when nothingness does not. Nothingness exist only in the volume, substance, and essence of the thinker.
This changes nothingness into something, and it does so only by the infinitesimal existence of awareness. Infinitesimal because the mind cannot even grasp the existence of the Life which has made it that something which extend, and calls those things which are not, from the invisible -which you consider as nothing- as those they were. This means they have always existed, but beyond the minds comprehension.

Nobody...And I don't know about the radiating black holes. I think the radiation is a result of the cancellation, just like the annihilation of particles and antiparticles don't disappear but release gamma rays. I suggested that every conceivable point of infinity is a black hole, and your assessment of our mind as being an outward view would play a role in this in the sense that it would translate the radiation from other points around us. But to say that black holes swallow things, or that light escapes would be to give dimensions to black holes and I don't think they have any.

jufa...It is not about what you think, it is about what you know. Radiation and particles cannot be anniilated. They take on a different character of representation. Nothin can ever be lost in the universe, thus annilhilated, the universer is structured that way. Thus, gramma rays become another form of radiation. To say that black holes have no dimension is to exclude black holes themselves, for how could they exist without being the dimensional structure of gravitational forces which allow penetration into the those very forces which makes it a black hole?

jufa
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From: Jufa Sent: 11/30/2005 2:28 AM
#582

What you fail to comprehend is there is no death of Consciousness. It is Consciousness which has shaped the forms of your universe through interpretation. This is why no two persons can look at one picture and come to the same conclusion of awareness. You cannot die out of Consciousness because it is in you live, and move, and have your being of awareness certified by thought, and thought is not personal. Yet thought is everywhere you are, nonetheless thought does not originate with you. So how can that which is not original in you be your essence of awareness. It is because your substance is in the Consciousness of thought, and it is this truth which allow you to forms from the essence of your awareness the substance of any thought body you so desire. But you have to be aware of this truth to understand you are the "Worlds without ends"

jufa
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From: Nobody Sent: 11/30/2005 3:45 AM

Jufa,

Communicating with you is like talking to myself. I sense we are saying pretty much the same things in different ways. Except for the blackholes, when you say "To say that black holes have no dimension is to exclude black holes themselves." I propose that they are the center point of the minds which, again, don't exist. They are non- dimensional and anti-electrical whereas everything else perceived is given dimensions via electrical interactions.
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From: Jufa Sent: 11/30/2005 1:30

Nobody, I have not made the comparison, you could be correct however from this advantage point: it is in discussion with myself that all the b-s is eliminated, and that which I am seeking to find, either will present itself with an extension, or the findings will be
blurry. It is always the extension which which doesn't clarify a result, but expands the horizon of that which I seek. This is probably the difference in your belief in the nothingness of mind, and my viewpoint that the mind is Consciousness extending Itself as the individuality of awareness of existence being the Center Point of even the theory of nothingness. This means existence is the annilhilation of The Theory of Nothing even in the midst of thinking such a theory.

Now to propose that black holes has a center point is in itself giving dimensions to them, for to have a center, there must be a circumrence. But no only that, to propose that black holes are the center point of the mind, but said mind doesn't exist is a contradiction outrageously raw, for how can there be a center point of something which does not exist? You yourself negate your propositin of non-dimensional and anti-electrical by adding a center point.

jufa
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From: Nobody Sent: 12/1/2005 9:54 AM

Jufa,

I remember having a conversation much like this one, on and off for about three years, before we both realized the same things were pretty much being said in different ways. It's the route I see religion, science and philosophy taking when the root becomes aware
of.

There's apparently alot of confusion concerning what I propose as being the only two absolute states and relativistic states of the Universe. When None is considered, it is not considered to become One; and when One is considered, it is considered only as being relative to "none", hence it doesn't work well. And it is as important as any hypothesis that attempts to convey reality in a relative manner, to not take for granted answers to first questions which is what the case is in all religions, sciences and philosophies -- in the sense that there is always the proposition of "something" or "someone" being prime.

People can talk for hours about relative movements, particles and energy, but few if any are willing to posit the absolute Universe as the only true reality in its twofold sense that everything in the Universe -- all "universes" combined -- equals absolute Zero. And we can clearly see again that this Zero equals the One universal state. I refer to it as the true Mind because it is the only true stability -- the true stillness of meditation that the ancients have relayed for millennia -- whereas other states are relative and jumpy.

If you have an idea of ZPE and String Theory progressions, which are close to the state, they also calm the chaotic quantum world in two ways, but never fully: the former does so by introducing a concept that led us to the reality of the Taoist Symbol whereby the most is within the least and vice-versa, as it connects the lowest and the highest energy spectrums to a stilled picture much like the pictures we observe within this world's spectrum; and the latter does so by connecting the very small to the very large as functioning much like how we observe this world functioning. But the problem is that the smal-large and low-high particles/energy forever continue and this I propose is the basis for the restless mind, pulse and breath -- all fundamentally connected to existence and non-existence, and how the two are interchangeable. Existence forever dies and non-existence forever lives. Or, in other words: when you breathe separated from the whole of the Universe, you die; and when you don't breathe as an individual, you gain immortality -- where there is the potential of borrowing energy or breath from any temporal part within the whole -- which is the truest state.

You are never alone!!!

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa
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