The Real Threat to Consciousness

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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BMcGilly07
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The Real Threat to Consciousness

Post by BMcGilly07 »

What is the most vital threat to consciousness today? Is it Islam?
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »


Distraction - something increasingly indistinguishable to life and reason for so many.

Isn't that Islam afterthought seriously distracting from the question before it? Seems like some self-defeating, self-defacing habit you're showing.
|read|
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

Post by |read| »

How do you distinguish distracting pursuits from worthwhile and reasonable life pursuits? I'm looking for heuristics and pragmatic advice.
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BMcGilly07
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

Post by BMcGilly07 »

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:Distraction - something increasingly indistinguishable to life and reason for so many.

Isn't that Islam afterthought seriously distracting from the question before it? Seems like some self-defeating, self-defacing habit you're showing.
I did think twice before posting this, perhaps I should have had a third go at it. The follow-up question offered is born of discrimination of names and appearances and so doesn't even belong to the relative plane, but rather to a complete flight of fancy, due to total imagination.

I thought of writing a full essay on the threat Islam poses to western society, but realized it wasn't worth the time.

That's my present dilemma, how to reconcile the perceived threats of the manifestations of unconsciousness on the relative and imaginary planes when they seem to threaten the survival of the absolute plane within the former.

I know it to be false, and yet my ego feels the fear.

And yet can you say you're not against the expansion of radical Islam? It wasn't meant as a distraction, it was an offering of the avenue I was thinking of taking, but left up to the reader.
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Ryan Rudolph
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

I'll take a quick stab at this one -

Not only islam, but any fundamentalist group with an agenda. The biggest threat to the survival of consciousness is one of these groups using a nuclear bomb on a nation-state, which causing a whole chain of nuclear attacks around the globe.

I rank the state of Israel as being among the biggest threats to world stability. Sometimes their government is controlled by moderates, but sometimes the controllers are more extreme, driven by hatred and fear of their neighbors. And based on the fact that they are possess nuclear weapons, not a stable situation.

That is one benefit of Barack Obama being in office, one of his main objectives of his presidency is to try to reduce the number of nuclear weapons around the world, and with Russia and the US signing new agreements for disarmament, hopefully the rest of the world will follow. Another one of his objectives is to try to better secure some of the active nukes in unstable regions of the world such as Pakistan, which is an absolutely insane situation, as you have rogue elements such as the Taliban attempting to overthrow the more moderate government.
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Nick
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

Post by Nick »

Isn't the biggest threat to consciousness, unconsciousness? And, if we want to find something that drags men into unconsciousness more than anything else, what does this more effectively than women? I imagine if women were to disappear from the face of the planet, you would see a huge increase in the number of men pursuing a more spiritual, philosophical, and/or scientific life. Man's will to power would no longer be influenced and controlled by women to amass material wealth and wage wars to protect his status among them. Instead he would be much more likely to use his will to power to uncover truth and understand the fundamental nature of reality.

One can only dream...
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Carl G
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

Post by Carl G »

BMcGilly07 wrote:What is the most vital threat to consciousness today? Is it Islam?
No, my son, it is television. And, lately, also cell phones.

Actually there is and can be no threat to consciousness.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

It looks to me like Islam, Christianity and Hinduism are acting like a micro-cosmos of any person's attempts to deal with his reality. They face the same problems as any self-professed atheist would eventually. Against the downhill decadency you see movements of reformation or fundamentalism grow: back to basics, back to the root! The immensely ironic thing is that even an atheist, just having dished all reverence to any ancient scripture and notions of divine beings and ethereal places, generally will only introduce the same things again through the backdoor: materialism, consumerism, commercialism, pop-culture or just 'conservatively' digesting echoes from a religious past. One must understand there's no difference and the same advocates, believers and reformers arise. Willing to kill to defend the imagery. Can you spot them?
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

|read| wrote:
Diebert van Rhijn wrote:Distraction - something increasingly indistinguishable to life and reason for so many.
How do you distinguish distracting pursuits from worthwhile and reasonable life pursuits?
The moment you start distinguishing, even a little, it all eventually becomes rather obvious, step by step. But there's no manual here to give although most meditative practices as well as words of those you think have gone before you could be worthwhile. Everything basically will and can function as potential detraction, hence the often coined term emptiness in relation to consciousness.
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David Quinn
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

Post by David Quinn »

|read| first needs to decide what is worthwhile in life. Then he will have his answer.

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paco
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

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BMcGilly07 wrote:What is the most vital threat to consciousness today? Is it Islam?
No, it's billy graham!
I am illiterate
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BMcGilly07
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

Post by BMcGilly07 »

Carl G wrote:
BMcGilly07 wrote:What is the most vital threat to consciousness today? Is it Islam?
No, my son, it is television. And, lately, also cell phones.

Actually there is and can be no threat to consciousness.
Sure, but let's say in the next ten years there is a groundswell movement in all of the shifting, migrating and displaced Muslim populations to adopt radical Islam and Jihad, and to spread Islam by the sword?

Islam, afterall, is a political system more than anything. However "bad" the current western leadership and governments, at least we aren't threatened with death for not believing in a god, nor are we stoned for speaking the truths we do, along with countless other restrictions we are presently free of.

In the world of the relative, radical Islam is the greater evil of the two.
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Carl G
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

Post by Carl G »

Islam and the western governments are both parts of the same global game, both controlled by the same source. This source is the "greater evil", not Islam, nor the western "leadership". The source is a non-national consortium of private think tanks.
at least we aren't threatened with death for not believing in a god, nor are we stoned for speaking the truths we do, along with countless other restrictions we are presently free of.
Those who speak the truth are often threatened, stoned, and restricted, if by no one else, by their sheep-like peers.
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BMcGilly07
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

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That's a bit extreme, surely they're not liked but they remain a rare enough oddity to escape general persecution, except in muslim countries where that certainly holds true. In the west you would be hounded and receive disapproval and spit every which way you look, but for the most part you would escape injury.

The fact remains that radical Islam would see you put to death for your beliefs, that is far more a threat than general globalization by greedy corporations who just want to keep people fat, happy, and consuming.

That is a threat to each individual that needs overcoming, whereas a radical extraneous third party walking into your home and putting a sword to your neck for what you think is in need of awareness as well. Movements of such a kind don't spring up over night, but the revolution rages by degree, so slowly that one may not notice it until the fatwa of universal belief is issued from some far off mosque.

Religion of every kind needs to go, but more so any that would threaten death as the only alternative to devotion.
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

Carl G wrote:Those who speak the truth are often threatened, stoned, and restricted, if by no one else, by their sheep-like peers.
Threatened yes, stoned - not literally so much anymore, and restricted yes, though covertly.
BMcGilly07 wrote:In the world of the relative, radical Islam is the greater evil of the two.
Radical Islam vs radical Christianity - sounds like the Bush years. The real problem is the common root cause.
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Carl G
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

Post by Carl G »

BMcGilly07 wrote:That's a bit extreme, surely they're not liked but they remain a rare enough oddity to escape general persecution, except in muslim countries where that certainly holds true. In the west you would be hounded and receive disapproval and spit every which way you look, but for the most part you would escape injury.
Speaking the truth would get me killed in a heartbeat in many places in America today, and generally persecuted in most everywhere else.
The fact remains that radical Islam would see you put to death for your beliefs, that is far more a threat than general globalization by greedy corporations who just want to keep people fat, happy, and consuming.
Both are death, and both originate from the same source, and yet you see vast difference.
That is a threat to each individual that needs overcoming, whereas a radical extraneous third party walking into your home and putting a sword to your neck for what you think is in need of awareness as well.
Wait a minute. You think a third world person is coming into my home? I'm sooner murdered by my neighbor, some gang member of my own society, or the police.
Movements of such a kind don't spring up over night, but the revolution rages by degree, so slowly that one may not notice it until the fatwa of universal belief is issued from some far off mosque.
Not sure what you are on about here.
Religion of every kind needs to go, but more so any that would threaten death as the only alternative to devotion.
Such as to the global control system. I hear you, brother. Fuck radical Islam. Next to it these are the real beasts.
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BMcGilly07
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

Post by BMcGilly07 »

Carl G wrote:
BMcGilly07 wrote:That's a bit extreme, surely they're not liked but they remain a rare enough oddity to escape general persecution, except in muslim countries where that certainly holds true. In the west you would be hounded and receive disapproval and spit every which way you look, but for the most part you would escape injury.
Speaking the truth would get me killed in a heartbeat in many places in America today, and generally persecuted in most everywhere else.
My line of thought is down the road from now, as in what evanescent threat is on the horizon for Western civilization, not what is immediately before us. While you can be killed in numerous places in America for wearing the wrong colors, at least the laws provide for your protection in this instance. Whether some ignoramus decides he doesn't like what you say and so is going to kill you isn't really in the scope of what I'm on about here. No law is going to protect you from reaction, but at least it is there in the Western world. Not so in many Sharia countries, if you even blaspheme Muhammad by implication you can be sentenced to death.

This problem doesn't lie with the West, the West has no qualm by and large with Islam. It is radical Islam which has the problem with the West, and if that's not explicitly fought, sought out and destroyed, the burgeoning Muslim population may change their attitude towards infidels and dhimmis on a dime and decide to convert or kill them. Islam is based on the Quran as the indisputable word of god and the unquestionable model established by the life and doings of Muhammad in the hadiths. The Quran clearly calls for the conversion of all non-believers, and it is their active goal. Their mosques are abuzz with energized youth who would carry their faith on the edge of a blade to every man woman and child on the face of the earth.

There are 54 million immigrant muslims in Europe, with many European families having only one or two kids to the thronging numbers being born by their muslim neighbors from Geert Wilders' address to some Hollywood crowd during his release of Fitna. If Europe fell to islam the rest of the world would be on its knees.
Carl G wrote:
The fact remains that radical Islam would see you put to death for your beliefs, that is far more a threat than general globalization by greedy corporations who just want to keep people fat, happy, and consuming.
Both are death, and both originate from the same source, and yet you see vast difference.
Ignorance is ignorance, a lazy life of apathy under democratic laws and values has a better chance at truth than the same youth under Sharia. The bedevilment and bedazzling of the world's youth by TV, iPods, video games and other such wastes of time effects the impotency of the West. It is these very distractions which will keep the West distracted long enough to make a new Jihad a real problem. Since it's inception in the seventh century Islam has been on a mission to convert the entire world, and those radicals and those youth have no such distractions. They are resolved and unwavering, willing to die for the glory of allah.

And so the ignorance perpetrated by the greed of the West is just as culpable as the reaction it stimulates in the radical muslims. If the limited consciousness of the West is not inclined towards Absolute Truth then it should at least be quite aware of the threat religion and its fundamentalism inspires. If some mass jihadi movement were sparked it would create an equally ugly and violent backlash by strengthening the ranks of radical xians.
Carl G wrote:Wait a minute. You think a third world person is coming into my home? I'm sooner murdered by my neighbor, some gang member of my own society, or the police.
Hyperbole, and if they had their way they certainly would.
Carl G wrote:
BMcGilly07 wrote:Movements of such a kind don't spring up over night, but the revolution rages by degree, so slowly that one may not notice it until the fatwa of universal belief is issued from some far off mosque.
Not sure what you are on about here.
There is a groundswell movement in islam itself, which I witnessed first hand at a muslim sit in at University several years ago, to convert, convert, convert. And our numbers are growing, growing, growing and soon all will know the glory of allah. I had dismissed it until recent actions of president hussein, visiting a mosque in Turkey and saying that the West is not, has never been, and never will be at war with Islam. When, as the problem lies with the radicals, he should have said that the we are not at war with Islam, radical Islam is at war with us, and we will never capitulate to terrorism or any institution of sharia in democratic nations.
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Carl G
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

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I don't think you are going deep enough. Islam is a symptom, it is not the problem you make it to be. For one thing, Islam has no money. And the money rules. The money is another name for the controlling cartel. The cartel supports radical Islam like it supported Communism and Nazism and Capitalism. It fosters -isms and sets them against each other for its own purposes. Did you know that Al Qaeda was essentially created by the CIA?
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BMcGilly07
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

Post by BMcGilly07 »

Carl G wrote:I don't think you are going deep enough. Islam is a symptom, it is not the problem you make it to be. For one thing, Islam has no money. And the money rules. The money is another name for the controlling cartel. The cartel supports radical Islam like it supported Communism and Nazism and Capitalism. It fosters -isms and sets them against each other for its own purposes. Did you know that Al Qaeda was essentially created by the CIA?
I'm not quite sure who you mean by cartel. Are you referring to the US singly or the like of the Bildebergers?
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Blair
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

Post by Blair »

Carl G wrote:
BMcGilly07 wrote:What is the most vital threat to consciousness today? Is it Islam?
No, my son, it is television. And, lately, also cell phones.

Actually there is and can be no threat to consciousness.
Meaning, it can be displaced, but not extinguished?
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Carl G
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

Post by Carl G »

Yes.
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Ryan Rudolph
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

Carl,
I don't think you are going deep enough. Islam is a symptom, it is not the problem you make it to be. For one thing, Islam has no money. And the money rules. The money is another name for the controlling cartel. The cartel supports radical Islam like it supported Communism and Nazism and Capitalism. It fosters -isms and sets them against each other for its own purposes. Did you know that Al Qaeda was essentially created by the CIA?
In my opinion, fundamentalism such as radical islam is a bigger threat to consciousness than corporate power. Btw, you're naive Carl if you think you can pass off all these conspiracies as fact. The small group of individuals you speak of do not have as much power as the conspiracy theorists would like to believe. The economy is very complicated, and power is spread out in hundreds of nation-states. In the developed and developing world, each has their own local number of powerful wealthy man, some are using their wealth to benefit others, while others are accumulating, wasting, expanding, and so on.

The effects of radical islam is proven fact, it will be written in history, but you're claims are conspiracy, meaning not proven by any academic authority. There is a huge difference there, and I hope you can see it.

Btw, with the Islam issue, I'm surprised how tolerant London has become with radicalized hate speech by Islamic clerics in their country. There are a few clerics who speech regularly to younger audiences, and in their speeches, they incite hatred, violence, and intolerance towards the very country that they live in. As a government, guys like that should be arrested, and even privately assassinated in secret, if they have a lot of power and influence.
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Carl G
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

Post by Carl G »

Ryan Rudolph wrote:In my opinion, fundamentalism such as radical islam is a bigger threat to consciousness than corporate power. Btw, you're naive Carl if you think you can pass off all these conspiracies as fact. The small group of individuals you speak of do not have as much power as the conspiracy theorists would like to believe.
No, you are naive. Islam and corporate power are both symptoms of a larger issue.
The economy is very complicated, and power is spread out in hundreds of nation-states. In the developed and developing world, each has their own local number of powerful wealthy man, some are using their wealth to benefit others, while others are accumulating, wasting, expanding, and so on.
This is a childish bedtime story, a fantastic dream. And Islam is not the boogie-man. Grow up and wake up to reality.
The effects of radical islam is proven fact, it will be written in history, but you're claims are conspiracy, meaning not proven by any academic authority. There is a huge difference there, and I hope you can see it.
False. Conspiracy means collusion, it does not mean not proven by academic authority. And your appeal to "academic authority" is childish. There is no such thing. Unfortunately, education is controlled as well.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

BMcGilly07 wrote:There are 54 million immigrant muslims in Europe, with many European families having only one or two kids to the thronging numbers being born by their muslim neighbors from Geert Wilders' address [snap]
Please be informed Wilder is a lunatic, a proven liar, a non-stop inconsistent ego-maniac. Bringing his name up says to me you've not thought about the issue at all. This guy is a symbol for the ongoing feminization of the mental landscape in my country. No rational being I know takes him seriously. Even a cursory glance at his 'movie' should make you cringe on the abuse of logic and lack of quality thought it displays.

Your number of 54 million muslims (not 'immigrant muslims persee) for example is lifted from this propaganda movie (and you repeat it mindlessly like a cow here!). Wilders quoted research included Western-Turkey [duh! a Muslim country] and Eastern European Muslim countries to come to that. Check out some more thoughtful numbers at the BBC. Only Germany and France have a significant number based on historical issues like former colonies and cheaply imported labor. Hardly some 'invasion' initiated from the Muslim side.

For a more considered factual view on the supposed 'fertility' of Islam go here. Seems many Muslims gravitate to a family size not so different than the Western natives. It's called modernity. Can't escape it.
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Re: The Real Threat to Consciousness

Post by Shahrazad »

Ryan,
There are a few clerics who speech regularly to younger audiences, and in their speeches, they incite hatred, violence, and intolerance towards the very country that they live in. As a government, guys like that should be arrested, and even privately assassinated in secret, if they have a lot of power and influence.
Nat was right about you being a Nazi. Just kill everybody who you perceive as a threat to your government administration. You don't believe in the idea of free speech at all. You'd have so many political prisoners that there would be no place to put them.

You are just as extreme as the Islamic fundies.
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