truth?

[MySuicide.X.MyBride]

a wanderer about five tabs down the rabbit hole asked the other wanderers

so your seeking absolute truth, would you agree then that there first off is an absolute truth to seek, then what is that truth? reality itself, objectively? arent we the subjective instruments of reality attempting to see what reality is through our own filters? wouldnt attaining absolute truth be the same as severing our subjective tie from reality? through, singularity, enlightenment, death, etc. return to the universe. being the absolute objective truth.

[MySuicide.X.MyBride]

a progressive phase from observing to just being. look at bacteria, little subjective perspective if any, mostly just being. so close to being the wave that is reality. no troublesome perspective. but then being a bacteria doesn't have much depth. i say we have the good end of it up here in subjective realm. that tie will be severed eventually, might as well have a party while we're up here, we will return to the reality eventually. we just have the most interesting view from up here. O_o

[MySuicide.X.MyBride]

if there is no absolute truth then madness reigns supreme (and we should probably be partying anyway if thats the casE) but i doubt there could be something to give our shadows on the wall, without there being that thing in the first place. should the fact that we can even ponder this question be evidence that there is truth or reality out there. a logical cascading events being the crunch of causality, all time and dimensions one infinite point, because it is. maybe it is, because you cannot introduce the idea of nothing until the idea of something is also introduced.

[MySuicide.X.MyBride]

therefore that reality is, but everything that falls from and tries to reason with it is just a subjective beast, mere droplets from the fountain of reality trying to reason with the entire waterfall, and as long as we try to reason with it we remain subjective, because we are creating our own rules for reality. and not being truth.

[MySuicide.X.MyBride]

subjectivity is freedom. freedom bathing in delusions, but freedom nonetheless.

[arek4321]

absolute truth. first and foremost, although absolute truth would be nice, it is quite a quixotic idea to chase. After all, most (if not all) truths that we believe to indeed be "true", may be not even be. The winners write the history books, and if they wanted to bias a certain point in history in their favor or against someone then what is accepted as "the truth" is in turn untrue. What happens when you are taught that things work a certain way since childhood, but the people telling you these "truths" know just about as little about the actual validity of the statement. Which means they continue to spread the lie as "truth" so the concept of truth as a whole becomes in some form tainted and adulterated. But are they to blame if what they are teaching as truth is actually false, because they think its true but they don't know better or enough to question the source of information or the authority figure feeding them this information.

what do you think?

[Animus]

Here is what I think:

There is absolute knowledge and we all possess it to some degree. I'm absolutely certain that my next sip of coffee will be genuine coffee and not Tequila Sunrise. Sure, if I stop looking at the "coffee" and start perceiving whether or not some quantum fluctuation is going to change it to alcohol, only then does my absolute certainty about it being coffee become a question. An alternative might be that it isn't really coffee and I am simply insane then it would have to be something besides coffee. Assuming I'm not insane then my labeling it "coffee" makes it coffee for all intents and purposes.

Truly however, I might say that my perception of colour is insane because no such thing exists "objectively", but then I've committed a fallacy of a false dichotomy, the objective/subjective dichotomy.

Either way, I'm faced with this: To say that I know that I don't know anything is to claim to know something impossible. "I know that I don't know anything" is a contradiction of the term know, since "anything" includes the claim to know that I don't know anything. Know what I'm saying?

The thing about knowledge, I know, is that it all depends on perspective. The labels and images and dynamics I apply to a system on one level doesn't necessarily work when other levels of the phenomena are considered.

I think a model like quantum theory could accurately predict what is going on and thus has an appearance of a complete theory, but the problem is the unseen, the unobserved or unobservable facts which never-the-less cause the same results. So it does work according to the models, but the models don't describe everything that is happening. It is however still accurate to say it works according to the models and thus we "know" how it works to some degree.

I think its fallacious to assume that we know nothing as a result of the paradoxical question "Why everything exists" in which we are doomed to infinite regress.

[brokenhead]

Truly however, I might say that my perception of colour is insane because no such thing exists "objectively", but then I've committed a fallacy of a false dichotomy, the objective/subjective dichotomy.

Good post, Animus, but I'm not sure I got this part. I don't get why you might say the perception of colour is insane.

[Animus]

Well, colour is a subjective experience of wavelengths of light photons and in that sense it is not entirely representative of the "objective" source.

Visual System

[David Quinn]

a wanderer about five tabs down the rabbit hole asked the other wanderers

so your seeking absolute truth, would you agree then that there first off is an absolute truth to seek, then what is that truth? reality itself, objectively? arent we the subjective instruments of reality attempting to see what reality is through our own filters?

I stopped reading at this point. Using the absolute truth that we experience everything subjectively as a way of trying to undermine the concept of absolute truth is not a good start.

-

[MySuicide.X.MyBride]

a wanderer about five tabs down the rabbit hole asked the other wanderers

so your seeking absolute truth, would you agree then that there first off is an absolute truth to seek, then what is that truth? reality itself, objectively? arent we the subjective instruments of reality attempting to see what reality is through our own filters?

I stopped reading at this point. Using the absolute truth that we experience everything subjectively as a way of trying to undermine the concept of absolute truth is not a good start.

-

If you continued reading you'd see that I supported the existence an absolute truth in this scenario.

[divine focus]

Well, colour is a subjective experience of wavelengths of light photons and in that sense it is not entirely representative of the "objective" source.

So what is representative? Is anything "objective" not based on assumptions?

I say, 'why assume?'

[David Quinn]

a wanderer about five tabs down the rabbit hole asked the other wanderers

so your seeking absolute truth, would you agree then that there first off is an absolute truth to seek, then what is that truth? reality itself, objectively? arent we the subjective instruments of reality attempting to see what reality is through our own filters?

I stopped reading at this point. Using the absolute truth that we experience everything subjectively as a way of trying to undermine the concept of absolute truth is not a good start.

If you continued reading you'd see that I supported the existence an absolute truth in this scenario.

Absolute truth as reduced to mere being, to subjective freedom and the bathing in delusions?

-

[MySuicide.X.MyBride]

I stopped reading at this point. Using the absolute truth that we experience everything subjectively as a way of trying to undermine the concept of absolute truth is not a good start.

If you continued reading you'd see that I supported the existence an absolute truth in this scenario.

Absolute truth as reduced to mere being, to subjective freedom and the bathing in delusions?

-

So do you discount ideas based on how much you want them to be true?

[David Quinn]

I'm not sure that I understand your question.

-

[brokenhead]

Well, colour is a subjective experience of wavelengths of light photons and in that sense it is not entirely representative of the "objective" source.

All sight is a subjective experience of reflected photons of light, isn't it? Brightness would be a subjective experience based on intensity of the photon flux instead of the wavelength associated with the photons.

[Dan Rowden]

This is why the whole issue of qualia in discussions of consciousness matters (to some people). Are leaves green, or is the mind green? Obviously neither of those statements is really true. So, where and what is "green"?

[Animus]

This is why the whole issue of qualia in discussions of consciousness matters (to some people). Are leaves green, or is the mind green? Obviously neither of those statements is really true. So, where and what is "green"?

Is that a bit like intelligence arising from non-intelligence?

If causation holds true, can it really be said that we are intelligent? Or that reality is not?

[Ignius]

Vagina is such an ugly word. Qualia is much more suitable.