Priorities

[Ryan Rudolph]

We are entering the age of enormous problems and challenges, along with solutions to those problems.

If you had to choose in order of importance, five intellectual achievements or societal reforms that humanity should be collectively moving towards, what would they be, and justify your reasoning.

My #1 is the advance of wisdom.

It is my #1 because it makes all other achievements much easier to attain – what is your #1, along with the next four.

I’m still working out mine in my head.

[Carl G]

We are entering the age of enormous problems and challenges,

What a platitude. We are always entering an age and every age has its problems and challenges, caused, of course by the previous 'age'. As for the specific set of problems we now face, we are not entering them, we are already neck high in them.

Furthermore, the sweeping "We" with which you so love to frame most of your topics, is such an idealistic way of seeing things. Why is it never "I" as in what can "I" do to improve my own self, thus my world, thus the greater world around me? Is Genius ideally really a think tank for humanity? How practical is that, how logical? It strikes me as a young man's dream world. Haven't you anything better to do than dream up global scenarios? No? Then why not write books, either political science or science fiction?

along with solutions to those problems.

We are not necessarily entering an age of solutions, unless you simply mean cause and effect, i.e. the 'solution' may be the dissolution of humanity itself, in which case why mention it, the truth that everything works out; how could it not?

If you had to choose in order of importance, five intellectual achievements or societal reforms that humanity should be collectively moving towards, what would they be, and justify your reasoning.

Intellectual achievements and societal reforms are two different things, with different criteria and different effects.

I am not sure that humanity itself could have an intellectual achievement, actually; does humanity have an intellect collectively? I don't think so, therefore it could only be individuals which could attain an intellectual achievement. What would be examples of important intellectual achievements? I would say 1. Learning to think clearly; 2. Learning to develop attention; 3. Learning to see oneself clearly; 4. Learning to see the world clearly; 5. Learning to communicate clearly.

Nothing of emotional achievements? How telling.

As for societal reforms, these could only be result of personal reforms of sufficient percentage of population rippling upward into the leadership. That would, in fact, be the number one reform, itself, the awakening of the populace through the "intellectual -- really psychological -- changes brought forth on the individual level. And then, once sanity began to be valued, then cherished, and then became electable, other societal reforms could be implemented. Number two on my list would then be education, and this would naturally start in the family, and then follow in the institutions. Through education other new values can be introduced, such as obviating the need for war, for slavery, for poverty, for poor health. There, that's six.

My #1 is the advance of wisdom.

Too broad. It's like saying "the advance of world peace, or the advance of enlightenment" Yes, wisdom can be seen as a goal, but wisdom is result of so much else that is foundational, I don't see how it could be ever considered a first step.

It is my #1 because it makes all other achievements much easier to attain –

That's like saying I'm going to become a rock star guitarist because it will make my plans to buy a car, a house, build a stock portfolio much easier to attain.

[Ryan Rudolph]

Carl,

Many of your criticisms are arguments are over semantics and other trivial annoyances in how I use language, and I’m not going to respond to a lot of it because I want to focus on the particular objective of this thread.

That would, in fact, be the number one reform, itself, the awakening of the populace through the "intellectual -- really psychological -- changes brought forth on the individual level. And then, once sanity began to be valued, then cherished, and then became electable, other societal reforms could be implemented. Number two on my list would then be education, and this would naturally start in the family, and then follow in the institutions. Through education other new values can be introduced, such as obviating the need for war, for slavery, for poverty, for poor health. There, that's six.

Allow me to summarize and rephrase your priorities:

1. Individual growth AKA: the spread of wisdom (same #1)

2. Then improving education, which is still related to number 1 because you can either educate young children with the basic foundational skills that are necessary for later intellectual study, or you can concentrate on spreading intellectual material to the older intellectual crowd. Both are interests in the spread of education, and there are many ways of accomplishing those tasks. You could also say that poor health can be caused by a lack of education so it is related as well.

3. War, Slavery, Poverty all seem like symptoms of bigger problems to me – IE: irrationality/ignorance, environmental destruction, lack of economic resources and so on.

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Here is my current running list of priorities: However, the list is not in a definite hierarchical order, as all of the below objectives need to be pursued, and how they are prioritized is relatively determined on the individual's unique interests. However, it is still a useful topic to think about.

1. Spread of Education – Early Child and Teenage Development
Wisdom
Nutrition

2. The continual development of new technology that improves economic conditions, the amount of labour necessary in a work week, environmental conditions, general living standards, and humanities ability to learn and have access to information.

3. The development of medical treatments/technology that improve the genetic physical and mental health of infants from the outset.

4. A reform to economic and governmental policies that are restricting capitalist success, an international pressure to restrict the open sale of destructive weapons, and the encouragement of humanity to have fewer children to reduce the global population level.

5. Scientific procedures to limit environmental damage through better agricultural techniques, reforestation efforts in the Amazon, Africa and other problem areas.

[Jason]

Ryan, why do you think you're focused on the development of humanity at large?

[Ryan Rudolph]

Jason,

Ryan, why do you think you're focused on the development of humanity at large?

Being concerned with the health of humanity is part of the choiceless religious impulse, which is basically a persistent interest in the progress of consciousness.

And when I said to Carl that we are living in a period of enormous problems, but enormous potential for solutions - this is true because over the last century the species has developed such a vast knowledge base, technological base, and experience base that we are just beginning to open our eyes and become a aware of just how much plight humans are stuck with, and just how negative things are, but with intensified awareness, there is a push to find solutions.

Basically, An intensified awareness causes an involuntary interest in solving the very problem that one becomes aware of.

[Jason]

Do you think there's any emotional and/or egotistical motivations underlying your grand schemes?

[Ryan Rudolph]

Jason,

Do you think there's any emotional and/or egotistical motivations underlying your grand schemes?

well, one would have to examine their own motivations for wanting to work in a field of study. Personally, I've considered finishing my science degree, but under Biology, and doing a PH.D so I could get into research, not because I want to be a reputable scientist, but more because I see how much potential genetic engineering has in improving humanities mental and physical fitness.

A rational scientist or philosopher sees a problem logically, and works towards solving the problem because he knows the rewards will be great for the whole. His future selves will have it better than himself because of the contributes he has made. And even if he doesn't succeed, meaning his work doesn't yield any pragimatiic results, he shouldn't be upset because at least he made an honest attempt.

However, in such turbulent times, with economic uncertainity, spending $40, 000 plus seems rather out of reach at this point...

[Carl G]

Ryan wrote,

Carl,

Many of your criticisms are arguments are over semantics and other trivial annoyances in how I use language, and I’m not going to respond to a lot of it because I want to focus on the particular objective of this thread.

Fuck that, Ryan. It's a copout. Being specific counts when one is trying to communicate. You can't just gloss it over with an attitude that semantics doesn't matter. Why is it you want people to figure out what you mean instead of getting off your intellectual ass and learning how to voice it accurately?

[Carl G]

Allow me to summarize and rephrase your priorities:

1. Individual growth AKA: the spread of wisdom (same #1)

2. Then improving education, which is still related to number 1 because you can either educate young children with the basic foundational skills that are necessary for later intellectual study, or you can concentrate on spreading intellectual material to the older intellectual crowd. Both are interests in the spread of education, and there are many ways of accomplishing those tasks. You could also say that poor health can be caused by a lack of education so it is related as well.

3. War, Slavery, Poverty all seem like symptoms of bigger problems to me – IE: irrationality/ignorance, environmental destruction, lack of economic resources and so on.

No, you may not summarize and rephrase my priorities, because you obviously didn't get them. I disagree that "individual growth" and "the spread of wisdom" are the same thing. And if you will notice I gave 5 priorities in each of the two categories you tried to lump together as one. If they must be combined, then the five individual categories come first. Thus education as a societal reform is not my number two.

[Carl G]

Ryan,

I think your list of five priorities is shite. That is because it ignores the psychological infrastructure that must precede such sweeping changes, and thus your five must come after many other changes.

Your list reflects the pie-in-the-sky idealist theoretics of an immature intellectual/emotional mind. It is simply a list of "We Shoulds".

This is normal for a young man, nothing especially wrong with it.

[Ryan Rudolph]

Carl,

That is because it ignores the psychological infrastructure that must precede such sweeping changes, and thus your five must come after many other changes.

The spread of wisdom means the same thing as the psychological infrastructure that you mentioned and that why it is listed as my number #1. In my view, psychological truths mean the same thing as wisdom. So to promote wisdom is to promote the spread of psychological and logical truths.

Philosophy, psychology and biology are all one interrelated study in my view. You cannot be a true philosopher without being both a biologist and a psychologist.

[Renaissance]

I went looking on the first page of this forum to find any threads started and maintained by dear Rudolph. I must admit I am EXTREMELY SURPRISED to find that old Rudolph is indeed a very intelligent fellow.






Of course, since dear Rudolph is certain I don't know what I am talking about I guess my opinion about him is incorrect, right?

[Remo]

Resolve Scarcity and everything else falls into place.

[Carl G]

Resolve Scarcity and everything else falls into place.

_________________
Opinions are like assholes...

Resolve scarcity and reason is adopted, delusion dispelled, and wisdom attained? How so? And how is scarcity to be resolved without those?

[Remo]

The wise have always been those, whose needs are few.
Wisdom is achieved through the leisure pursuit of knowledge.
The more needs you have and the more time you spend in pursuit of those needs, the less time you have to pursue wisdom.

[Carl G]

The wise have always been those, whose needs are few.
Wisdom is achieved through the leisure pursuit of knowledge.
The more needs you have and the more time you spend in pursuit of those needs, the less time you have to pursue wisdom. Opinions are like assholes...

How very Zen of you. However, leisure can just as easily yield sloth, resulting in decadence not wisdom. So all does not necessarily "fall into place". Rather it falls to those who are predisposed to wisdom seeking, those few only.

[Remo]

Zen hmmm here i am reinventing the wheel... when i thought i was just stating whats self evident to myself.

As for what you said, leisure allows for the opportunity to pursue wisdom which is a choice like choosing to be a sloth, there is only so much time anyone has available to do things, the more time you use to pursue things other than wisdom, the less time you have to become wise. You have to choose to pursue wisdom, instead of say sex.

I'm sort of disappointed though, as all you had to do was call me on scarcity, it cannot be resolved. But if it could be, everything would fall into place. :P

Also why is my sig quoted in my statements? Since you deleted the separating line and quoted it twice. Maybe its your way of asking me what it means, let me clarify Opinions are like assholes... we all have one. Thanks for sharing your opinion with me :P That is why i come here for after all.

[Carl G]

Zen hmmm here i am reinventing the wheel... when i thought i was just stating whats self evident to myself.

Evidently you're a Zen Master!

As for what you said, leisure allows for the opportunity to pursue wisdom which is a choice like choosing to be a sloth, there is only so much time anyone has available to do things, the more time you use to pursue things other than wisdom, the less time you have to become wise. You have to choose to pursue wisdom, instead of say sex.

Yes.

I'm sort of disappointed though, as all you had to do was call me on scarcity, it cannot be resolved. But if it could be, everything would fall into place. :P

Why cannot scarcity be resolved? Surely through reduction of population and redistribution of resources...

Also why is my sig quoted in my statements? Since you deleted the separating line and quoted it twice. Maybe its your way of asking me what it means,

No, it was my way of telling you I find it offensive.

let me clarify Opinions are like assholes... we all have one. Thanks for sharing your opinion with me :P That is why i come here for after all.

I know what it means, and generally agree. But I prefer not to see it as you have expressed it over and over again in the course of daily reading. I've therefore put you on 'ignore'. However, I will click on individual posts that may interest me.

[Shahrazad]

You placed him on ignore just because you don't like his sigline? You're drastic.

[Tomas]

You placed him on ignore just because you don't like his sigline? You're drastic.

Shah,

Carl ain't the only one :-(


.

[Remo]

There ya go Carl... Wouldn't want to offend your sensitivities :P

I will get back to you on scarcity though, busy atm.

[Shahrazad]

Ok Carl, you (we?) got him to change his sigline. Can you take him off ignore now?

[Tomas]

Ok Carl, you (we?) got him to change his sigline. Can you take him off ignore now?

Shah,

You ever heard of the saying, "I like to see where someone is going before I join up with them."

Ditto for Nemo, the newbie .. time will tell.

PS - His new sig is questionable :-|



.

[Carl G]

There ya go Carl... Wouldn't want to offend your sensitivities :P

I will get back to you on scarcity though, busy atm.

That is mighty nice of you, Remo. Off 'ignore' goes without saying, and looking forward to your reply re: scare city.

[Remo]

We are entering the age of enormous problems and challenges, along with solutions to those problems.

If you had to choose in order of importance, five intellectual achievements or societal reforms that humanity should be collectively moving towards, what would they be, and justify your reasoning.

My #1 is the advance of wisdom.

It is my #1 because it makes all other achievements much easier to attain – what is your #1, along with the next four.

I’m still working out mine in my head.

Reducing this to its simplest form i interpret this to mean
What 5 achievements in order of priority will progress to a qualitative improvement for humanity?

I responded by stating "resolve scarcity and everything falls into place.
But scarcity cannot be resolved.

Why?
Because the concept of scarcity applies to anything that is not infinite.
So scarcity cannot be resolved, it can only be reduced.
I phrased it this way to see if anyone was paying attention :P

But i stand by reduction of scarcity as being priority #1
My reasoning is as follows:
All qualitative improvements suggested are dependant on the quantitative variable of scarcity.
So by reducing the scarcity of any qualitative improvement suggested, it increases its qualitative value for everyone.
Because by definition a reduction of scarcity means there is more of a thing to go around for everyone.

More food , less hunger
More education less ignorance
Increase in health care less disease

etc...

I chose scarcity because its impartial to the qualitative nature of suggestions which improve humanity which are biased.
But whatever virtue one picks, a reduction of its scarcity is an increase in its availability.
Progress is a qualitative improvement for humanity.
Progress is the quantitative reduction of scarcity.

Therefore achieving any reduction in scarcity improves humanity.