The Problem With Women Today

[Tomas]

Dan,

For such women, a loser type effectively validates her womanhoodishness (hey, if Alex can do it, so can I).

Are you saying you don't mind stooping to Alex's level?

Stooping is on a mind-level with Alex ..?

[Ataraxia]

Dan,

For such women, a loser type effectively validates her womanhoodishness (hey, if Alex can do it, so can I).

Are you saying you don't mind stooping to Alex's level?

I believe he was referring to Alex's penchant for creating neologisms.

[Nick]

I have kids, a house, money, status, and your "etc.", and I still feel attached to my ideal of a man. I live alone, in case it is not clear to you. The things I would want from a man, if I were to ever go for one again, would be more like love and respect, not status and wealth.

If that's true then it's probably because you failed to embody Woman yourself, so instead you seek the comforts of Woman along the same lines most men do, by submitting to a lover who you think embodies it.

Woman's value of man seems just as complex to me. At the very least, you have done a terrible job proving your point.

Well if you would stop identifying yourself with your entire gender you might start to see what I'm actually talking about. It's ironic how you accuse me of doing that when it's all you seem to be able to do. Anytime there is a critique of women you display the same knee-jerk reaction by critiquing men as if that some how refutes the point being made. It's also made evident in the way you responded to Alex by referring the Panamanian women as "your women" and then demanding that he owes you an apology.

She may be a great catch, but not the type that looks outrageous, and other women get bid on instead of her.

You couldn't be more irrelevant if you tried. Men openly compete for women, it's what men do. Nobody in their right mind would deny this. Yes women are competitive, but they are competitive in a completely different way. That is, they compete to see who can embody Woman in the flesh most effective way, i.e. who is able to most effectively remain sheltered in an emotional abyss far-far away from that cold and dreadful thing I like to call Reality. Since men have evolved to have at least some kind of connection to Reality this is a near impossible feat for him and would require nothing short of a lobotomy to achieve. So men, sensing that women embody what they them selves can not become, desperately pursues the acceptance of women as the next best thing.

As long as there are more gay men than gay women, and more educated men than educated women, there will always be a shortage of bidders.

So you don't think there a women out there who have men lining up to be with her, and that this doesn't put her in an extremely powerful position? You're a complete idiot if you don't think this happens. (Now remember, bringing up some irrelevant point about how men do this or that has no bearing on what I've actually said here, RESIST THE URGE TO IDENTIFY WITH YOUR GENDER)

IMO, many more women are throwing their lives away for men than men throwing their lives away for women. Women are hopeless romantics, and follow their hearts, especially the young ones.

Women throw their lives away for Woman, just like men do, but they do it differently. Some have a harder time with it than others, and some "succeed" if you want to call it that, but there is no shame in failing at something which requires you to sacrifice your soul. One should use this as an opportunity to pursue bigger and better things, namely Absolute Truth.

Now why in the world would I want to engage in such a time-consuming activity for you? What could I possibly get out of it? Impressing you by showing that I know what "QRS actually is"?

I don't know, I just thought you'd like to take responsibility for what comes out of your mouth.

[Dan Rowden]

You guys act like if a man ignores Woman, women will find him repulsive. That is frankly not the case.

I think you'll find it is the case, in the vast majority of cases. But I'll grant you a small concession: some of the characteristics evinced by such a man will be attractive to women in the short term. Strength and consistency of character, that sort of thing. But over time if the woman finds that she cannot direct his attention and utilise his attractive characteristics within the sphere of Woman, he will become repulsive to her; she will see him as dangerous (because he frankly is).

Now, it's tempting to say that there are some women who are not caught up in the whole Woman thing and are able to value such a man's virtue for what they are, without it having to be about the games and strategies and goals involved in Woman. The issue there is the difference between admiration and attraction. Such a woman may well reasonably admire and respect such a man's nature, as another man might, but if she is attracted, then she will have dragged things into the sphere of Woman. She will be wanting to experience these things vicariously through a relationship with such a man rather than develop the characteristics she respects and admires - in herself. It's sort of the difference between wanting to be Jesus, and wanting to be with Jesus.

So, yes, I'll grant you that up to a point and within a certain time-frame, woman can find men of truth, real masculine males, attractive. But I would argue strongly that it can't last.

[skipair]

Are you describing a scenario where you are parading yourself in front of a group of women with a “bulge” in your pants?

Yep. I've found it's a key component to a fast seduction. It makes them very receptive where otherwise it would be an uphill battle.

If that’s what you're doing, a life as a dirty-old-man could well be in your future.

It's possible, but I doubt it. In the end this is a phase for me, with goals that are very close to being completed.

I don't mind leaving things unfinished except when it's fear that stops me. Then I become a warrior with only one thing on my mind: kill the oppression. In the case of woman, my fear isn't from a lack of understanding about what she is. It is a habitual stimulus-response fear, instilled in me at childhood, and the only way to change it is to confront that thing which scares me again and again until I'm retrained. Specifically, I'm afraid of expressing the desire of "I want to fuck you". Probably a lot less than most guys, but when I see even a sliver of fear it is war.

It's true that there's no real reason why I need to play that game at all. If I didn't play I probably wouldn't have any fear. But when it seems I am finally so close to fully breaking my passivity in the regard, especially after a lifetime, I see no line of reasoning convincing enough to stop me. When I can stand before Woman, knowing that I have exerted my fearless will upon it to the max, taking this whole line of thinking to the edge, then I will be able to let it go.

[Dan Rowden]

It's not quite the patriarchal, phallic edifice that feminists would have you think it is; indeed, it's not remotely like that.

.

This semester I made the mistake of enrolling in a class called 'Text and Culture'; as you may have guessed, it is basically post-structuralism/post-modernism 101.

It is extraordinary the absolute nonsense that is being peddled in some of these subjects. Young minds haven't got a chance, in my view. Just as quick example, please be advised that considering "time" in a linear fashion (ie. as a clock tells it) is a bourgeois and anti-feminist subplot foisted on an unwilling public to oppress working class females and prolong patriarchal dominance.

Holy crap. What's their reasoning behind this?

[Dan Rowden]

Dan,

For such women, a loser type effectively validates her womanhoodishness (hey, if Alex can do it, so can I).

Are you saying you don't mind stooping to Alex's level?

C'mon, not even a midget with a rubber spine could stoop to Alex's level.

[Blair]

ehe. ehehe. Bwahahahaha!

Is there a bigger douchebag than Alex?

[Shahrazad]

Nick,

If that's true then it's probably because you failed to embody Woman yourself, so instead you seek the comforts of Woman along the same lines most men do, by submitting to a lover who you think embodies it.

I'm not saying you are completely wrong, but I fail to see how my lack of passion for wealth and status means I'm a failure at the Woman game. Couldn't it be that wealth does not make me happy?

Well if you would stop identifying yourself with your entire gender you might start to see what I'm actually talking about. It's ironic how you accuse me of doing that when it's all you seem to be able to do.

I think of myself as a woman, but that doesn't mean I feel a need to "defend my gender" or tell people how superior we are. I am not a feminist.

Anytime there is a critique of women you display the same knee-jerk reaction by critiquing men as if that some how refutes the point being made.

A lot of critiques of women here are done very well, and I feel no need to jump at the criticizer. I jump in usually when the criticizer seems to be more driven by hatred than by reason, or when the reasoning is not well developed at all.

It's also made evident in the way you responded to Alex by referring the Panamanian women as "your women" and then demanding that he owes you an apology.

If you ask any blogger who has known me for a long time, they could tell you that the strong reaction I had there was evidence of my attachment to Panama, and not my attachment to my gender. Because of our historical struggles, we have been caused to identify quite strongly with our country. The popularity of characters like Omar Torrijos and Ruben Blades is proof of that.

Alex will forever be on my hit list for what he has said about my people (regardless of gender). No amount of apologies or good deeds can ever take him off.

So you don't think there a women out there who have men lining up to be with her, and that this doesn't put her in an extremely powerful position?

I know very few of these women. Two come to mind: my kid and a cousin of mine. The former is impressively beautiful, and the latter won the Miss Panama pageant a few years ago. (Which caught all men's attention. Had she lost, the story would be different.) They represent at best 3% of all women.

You're a complete idiot if you don't think this happens.

You're a complete idiot if you are going to use something so rare and talk about it as if it were the norm.

(Now remember, bringing up some irrelevant point about how men do this or that has no bearing on what I've actually said here, RESIST THE URGE TO IDENTIFY WITH YOUR GENDER)

Don't yell at me, kid.

I don't know, I just thought you'd like to take responsibility for what comes out of your mouth.

By defining a word you probably know the meaning of?

[Jason]

But that reversed version doesn't speak to anything that is real in the world, as far as I can tell.

What about the romantic knight-in-shining-armour concept? Couldn't that be the counterpart of your so-called "Woman"?

It's important to understand that men and women only really value each other as vehicles towards another destination - all roads lead to Woman.

That seems, like much here, quite one-sided to me. Many men take deadly seriously the job of living up to masculine roles. Take the example of gay-bashing, which might be explained as a symptom of feeling one's masculine identity(as conventionally manly, uber-hetero and macho) to be threatened. There are many roads leading to "Man" too.

[Shahrazad]

Dan,

C'mon, not even a midget with a rubber spine could stoop to Alex's level.

OK. For a while there, you had me worried.

[Dan Rowden]

But that reversed version doesn't speak to anything that is real in the world, as far as I can tell.

What about the romantic knight-in-shining-armour concept? Couldn't that be the counterpart of your so-called "Woman"?

It's a part of it, not a counterpart. A man's ideations regarding his role with respect to women is all part of Woman, and a significant part at that.

It's important to understand that men and women only really value each other as vehicles towards another destination - all roads lead to Woman.

That seems, like much here, quite one-sided to me. Many men take deadly seriously the job of living up to masculine roles.

Sure they do, and the end to those roles generally is.........? Surely you've been around long enough to know what Woman means?

Take the example of gay-bashing, which might be explained as a symptom of feeling one's masculine identity (as conventionally manly, uber-hetero and macho) to be threatened. There are many roads leading to "Man" too.

That example seems rather tangential to what's being discussed, which is the dynamic between the sexes. I'm not arguing that absolutely everything a man does it about Woman and/or women, but a very large part of it is. But that said, why does a man feel like he has to protect his macho or hetero image? Who is he doing this for? Just himself?

[Jason]

But that reversed version doesn't speak to anything that is real in the world, as far as I can tell.

What about the romantic knight-in-shining-armour concept? Couldn't that be the counterpart of your so-called "Woman"?

It's a part of it, not a counterpart. A man's ideations regarding his role with respect to women is all part of Woman, and a significant part at that.

You have predetermined your destination by defining everything to fall within the category "Woman." I don't see that there is even space for "man" to enter into the equation, you may as well just leave "him" out entirely, but I suppose that would be too consistent and fail to serve the underlying purposes of the endeavour.

That seems, like much here, quite one-sided to me. Many men take deadly seriously the job of living up to masculine roles.

Sure they do, and the end to those roles generally is.........? Surely you've been around long enough to know what Woman means?

I don't even know why I bother sometimes. The lexicon you've created with "Woman" is self-serving and confusing(apparently to those who use it as much as anyone else.) The way people around here mix, match, switch, equate and differentiate(often in a single sentence) the words and concepts "women" and "Woman" is moronic.

Take the example of gay-bashing, which might be explained as a symptom of feeling one's masculine identity (as conventionally manly, uber-hetero and macho) to be threatened. There are many roads leading to "Man" too.

That example seems rather tangential to what's being discussed, which is the dynamic between the sexes.

We were talking about the actual sexes? I thought we were talking about the all-consuming archetype that is "Woman." My mistake.

I'm not arguing that absolutely everything a man does it about Woman and/or women,

"Woman and/or women"?!

Perfect.

[Nick]

I'm not saying you are completely wrong, but I fail to see how my lack of passion for wealth and status means I'm a failure at the Woman game. Couldn't it be that wealth does not make me happy?

That's not quite what I meant. I meant that you failed to embody Woman, meaning you failed for whatever reason to provide men a means by which they can merge with Woman. At least that's what I think has caused you to seek out Woman in the same sense as a man does.

I know very few of these women. Two come to mind: my kid and a cousin of mine. The former is impressively beautiful, and the latter won the Miss Panama pageant a few years ago. (Which caught all men's attention. Had she lost, the story would be different.) They represent at best 3% of all women.

I could go to any night club where I'm from and the place will be filled with plenty of good looking women, and they all have a number of men waiting on them hand and foot. It's not uncommon where I'm from.

You're a complete idiot if you are going to use something so rare and talk about it as if it were the norm.

What I described above is just a small example of how man worships Woman. Basically, whenever a man treats a woman, like a woman, he's protecting his own connection to Woman. He does this in a number of ways, and it tends to place many women in a position where she can manipulate and control mean to serve and protect her at all costs.

I don't know, I just thought you'd like to take responsibility for what comes out of your mouth.

By defining a word you probably know the meaning of?

QRS is a word with its own definition? Now you've lost me.

[Shahrazad]

Nick,

That's not quite what I meant. I meant that you failed to embody Woman, meaning you failed for whatever reason to provide men a means by which they can merge with Woman. At least that's what I think has caused you to seek out Woman in the same sense as a man does.

Very interesting hypothesis.

I could go to any night club where I'm from and the place will be filled with plenty of good looking women, and they all have a number of men waiting on them hand and foot. It's not uncommon where I'm from.

It's been a while since I've played the night club game, but back when I did, there would be tables full of attractive women dressed seductively, obviously dieing to catch the attention of men, with very limited results. Why oh why would these women even be in a bar by themselves if they had anything resembling a romantic relationship?

Besides everything else, you and I seem to have had quite opposite experiences.

QRS is a word with its own definition? Now you've lost me.

It's a word that I have heard being used in this and some related forums since about 2003, and that was not coined by me. I deem it part of Genius Forum jargon. A search for QRS in this forum should give you thousands of matches.

[Dan Rowden]

You have predetermined your destination by defining everything to fall within the category "Woman." I don't see that there is even space for "man" to enter into the equation, you may as well just leave "him" out entirely, but I suppose that would be too consistent and fail to serve the underlying purposes of the endeavour.

This reply, and everything you said thereafter shows me that you just don't get it. Oh well, not to worry.

[Nick]

Why oh why would these women even be in a bar by themselves if they had anything resembling a romantic relationship?

They usually don't go by themselves. It's usually with groups of women and men, or sometimes just women. The reason they go is to see and be seen, to revel in the attention, to compare and contrast who's hot and who's not. Who's keeping up with the Jones' as they say. Finding a man is more of an after thought. They know the men will hold up their end of the bargain by worrying about that. Women around here are free to be as thoughtless as they want. They wouldn't have it any other way.

[Jason]

You have predetermined your destination by defining everything to fall within the category "Woman." I don't see that there is even space for "man" to enter into the equation, you may as well just leave "him" out entirely, but I suppose that would be too consistent and fail to serve the underlying purposes of the endeavour.

This reply, and everything you said thereafter shows me that you just don't get it.

I think I get it. If you were more specific about what you think I don't get you might even have an argument to present to me. How 'bout that?

Oh well, not to worry.

"Oh well, not to worry"?! What a wimpy and passive cop-out. You should be aggressively pursuing your values Dan, namely attempting to spread what you see as the truth. You don't just surrender at the first sign of resistance. What kind of man are you?

[Dan Rowden]

It's that I don't like to waste my time, Jason. Let me ask you this in all seriousness: on a scale of 1-10, how much significance do you give the whole Woman/Feminine issue?

[Jason]

Let me ask you this in all seriousness: on a scale of 1-10, how much significance do you give the whole Woman/Feminine issue?

When it descends into being a synonym for "the dynamic between the sexes", as you call it, I give it relatively little significance, probably because I haven't personally had to deal with much of that and also because it is rather distant from higher philosophical matters. When it ascends to being a synonym for irrationality, lack of goals etc I give it high significance (whilst also thinking it unfortunate that these words have been unnecessarily redefined when there are already perfectly good mainstream words and definitions that can do the job.)

[Shahrazad]

Nick,

They usually don't go by themselves. It's usually with groups of women and men, or sometimes just women. The reason they go is to see and be seen, to revel in the attention, to compare and contrast who's hot and who's not. Who's keeping up with the Jones' as they say. Finding a man is more of an after thought. They know the men will hold up their end of the bargain by worrying about that. Women around here are free to be as thoughtless as they want. They wouldn't have it any other way.

It's all a show. Women can't let you know how desperate they are to find a man. They pretend they are enjoying going to bars in groups of women. And by your reaction, it's working.

Next time you go to a bar, take notice of two details: (1) do these women groups have any men in them? (2) how old are these women? Perhaps you are talking about women under 30, and they really are having fun. But those women over 30 are motivated by loneliness, and aren't having much fun.

It's a man's market out there.

[jupta]

Nick,

They usually don't go by themselves. It's usually with groups of women and men, or sometimes just women. The reason they go is to see and be seen, to revel in the attention, to compare and contrast who's hot and who's not. Who's keeping up with the Jones' as they say. Finding a man is more of an after thought. They know the men will hold up their end of the bargain by worrying about that. Women around here are free to be as thoughtless as they want. They wouldn't have it any other way.

It's all a show. Women can't let you know how desperate they are to find a man. They pretend they are enjoying going to bars in groups of women. And by your reaction, it's working.

Next time you go to a bar, take notice of two details: (1) do these women groups have any men in them? (2) how old are these women? Perhaps you are talking about women under 30, and they really are having fun. But those women over 30 are motivated by loneliness, and aren't having much fun.

It's a man's market out there.

Women are deluded into thinking that they will be wanted by young, luscious men after they grow into hags filled with ripe estrogen. Unfortunately that's not the case. If those women are so dumb as not to realise it, then that is entirely their fault.

That does not make it a 'man's market' however. Women of the correct age have much more value in any sexual market. In a free sexual market, however, Nature is much more tough on them than in a regulated one.

[Shahrazad]

Maybe I should've said that for people over 30, it's a man's market. However, even those women who are 20 will some day be 30, so they should start worrying. Unless they just happen to find the perfect man and they live happily ever after. It does happen sometimes.

[jupta]

Maybe I should've said that for people over 30, it's a man's market. However, even those women who are 20 will some day be 30, so they should start worrying. Unless they just happen to find the perfect man and they live happily ever after. It does happen sometimes.

Men who are below 30 don't much care for women over 30, or even 25 for that matter, so it does not really matter that much. You can't have a market without the goods missing. Besides, men of 45+ often look for women in the 30-40 age group, so even there it does not hold. I guess if you go above even that, then you can say that it's a man's market.

[Alex Jacob]

*Yawn*

Completely inane and useless conversation. No one seems to really tell the truth or to know what it is. People pretend to tell the truth but it is really mostly lying. About their own selves. The simple reason the QRS reject women is because each of them is an ugly duckling with mental problems. Someone described them as men with 'oatmeal faces'. And the ones who come up with the most cogent critique of womankind are the ones who are incapable of getting laid, even if they wanted to. For a man, that is a very painful situation. Just as it is for a woman who does not have the looks or personality to attract a man. The proposed strategy is to escape into an internal, neurotic and yet grandiose internal intellectual cave that is dug out inside oneself, and to group themselves with other men, with basically the same defects, and prop each other up. And this is called 'being wise'.

I don't know if I would carry it out quite as Skipair does, but at the very least he seems to be dealing with the core element: fear. Of all that has been written here, it is this that is most inspiring. It holds some real promise.

Shah's situation is similar to Sue's: they are both women who are passing into middle age (or are quite well within it). I don't get the impression that young women, aside from a really mentally ill case like Kelly Jones (who provides a precise study in the corresponding female to the QRS-type male, and shows why this is a dead-end road that only leads to sickness), participate in this forum. Sexually active, young women, I imagine, come here, see what i going on, and see clearly where all this leads.

Sue, in perverse form, converts herself into Den Mother of a bunch of failed boyscout-nerds with intellectual pretensions.

In Latin America 50 year-old women are señoras and what remains for them is attending to their home, shopping for nicknacks, being concerned for their children, fulfilling professional duties, and maybe looking after a little dog. There are other avenues to filling a social void such as an outrageous electic dildo with 5 different speeds and some sort of social work, for example helping orphaned children and what have you. Shah seems to deeply resent her fate, and her marriage choice. It is more than likely that the type of man she had as a husband was of the same psychological model as her worshipped warrior-father Omar Torrijos, which add an uncomfortable element to the admiration of manly-men. In Latin America, especially in Panama, the men in a large percentage of the cases will have a lover or 'querida' on the side if they are able, even if they maintain their marriage, if not for love at least for appearance, and a smidgin of respect for thew woman who bore his chidren. The more money, looks and social prestige you have (or raw talent of a certain sort) the more women who will make themselves available to you.

If you are sitting home alone, there is a reason. Wisdom is knowing what that reason is, confronting it, and taking the next steps to deal with it.

In respect to women, I would stick with a certain form of Chinese wisdom, and would recommend (I would also again mention Skipair's tactic which, I think, will work out best in the long run) learning how to 'handle' women, to become more powerful on inner, energetic levels, and not only in regard to 'women' but to life itself. Yes, that's it I think: the inner power to manage all the stories of life, on the various roads of life. It is an internal, hidden sort of power that does not have to deny anything.

Second line of hexagram No 4 'Youthful Folly'.

To bear with fools in kindliness brings good fortune.
To know how to take women
Brings good fortune.
The son is capable of taking charge of the household.

"These lines picture a man who has no external power, but who has enough strength of mind to bear his burden of responsibility. He has the inner superiority and that enable him to tolerate with kindliness the shortcomings of human folly. The same attitude is owed to women as the weaker sex. One must understand them and give them recognition in a spirit of chivalrous consideration. Only this combination of inner strength with outer reserve enables one to take on the responsibility of directing a larger social body with real success."
_____________________________________________________

I love you-all and as I've said many times: I will not give up on you! Your networking of contempt is the first wee baby-step toward your own healing, which will surely come! Alex is rooting for you!

Shah, I'd like for you to write a page or two of some praise of me and the wonderful things I am doing here. Dan, for your own good I am BANNING you for a year. I give you 'a week to finish up your business and then move on'.

The Young-Pussy-Lovers Sweet 'n' Sticky South American Vacation is still up for grabs, folks.