The Problem With Women Today

[skipair]

Skip and Rhett appear to be describing a form of intelligent man that is wholly unlike all those other men. They don't describe clearly what the attributes of that intelligent man are exactly, but since this is a philosophic forum, I guess they are referring to the man who values thinking, freedom, and individuality. But that can't be right.

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

[Foreigner]

Loki wrote to Skip:

You are defining intelligence too narrowly, treating it too objectively. There are many types of intelligences.

Men are intelligent in many different ways. Women use those variations to distinguish between men, and thereby choose the one/s they like. Of course, men’s looks are also important, but that can sometimes be overlooked if the man is clever at a number of things that women value.

Hi, may i inquire. What is it THAT a man's looks do for a woman, what does she get out of it? Please list all that come to mind.
And what of the exceptionally clever man whose looks are overlooked, how does this effect the woman his partner, how much of all THAT does she not receive, how deprived does she feel, where does it effect her- at the coffee shop? in bed? with or without lights out? How jealous may she be of girlfriends with hotter looking partners? I mean usually, or according to your knowledge and experiences.
Or, is it common for the importance of appearances to diminish with time and eventually her love for the man makes her forget he's not as handsome, perhaps actually now sees him as more beautiful instead of less as before?

Id appreciate any woman's feedback on this, thank you.

[Rhett]

Skip and Rhett appear to be describing a form of intelligent man that is wholly unlike all those other men. They don't describe clearly what the attributes of that intelligent man are exactly, but since this is a philosophic forum, I guess they are referring to the man who values thinking, freedom, and individuality. But that can't be right. For if those attributes are put to work to attract women, they are then reduced to the category of just a job, and the men who work at it are up there on the man-shelf with all the other hopefuls waiting to be purchased. It also naturally makes it clear that those attributes aren't real. They're only superficial masks, with no substance to them at all.

True intelligence – that which is based on reason and logic – is understandably abhorrent to women. A man that truly does value his thinking, freedom, and individuality is absolutely no use to a woman. Loki, it would appear, knows something about this man, describing him so:

...if you become too intelligent, then she won't be able to even see you. You'll become invisible to her. It's a bit like climbing so high that you appear small, or you might even vanish.

Understandably, these men don’t make it up onto the man-shelf.

I think it was obvious that i was talking about more versus less intelligence, within the conventional realm. About IQ, not wisdom. Sometimes doing this has a place here.

[Rhett]

Skipair needs confidence that his emotions and mind will be better off in the long run by skipping women.

[Rhett]

Hi, may i inquire. What is it THAT a man's looks do for a woman, what does she get out of it? Please list all that come to mind.
And what of the exceptionally clever man whose looks are overlooked, how does this effect the woman his partner, how much of all THAT does she not receive, how deprived does she feel, where does it effect her- at the coffee shop? in bed? with or without lights out? How jealous may she be of girlfriends with hotter looking partners? I mean usually, or according to your knowledge and experiences.
Or, is it common for the importance of appearances to diminish with time and eventually her love for the man makes her forget he's not as handsome, perhaps actually now sees him as more beautiful instead of less as before?

Id appreciate any woman's feedback on this, thank you.

If attractiveness has roots in genetic and situational fitness, then it stands to reason that people experience less suffering when married to a more attractive mate, all other factors being equal. Dominant evolutionary forces (ego) push people around with suffering. People choose good looks to not feel as bad, or put the conventional way, to feel better than they would otherwise. These forces can be transcended, to create a better form of evolution.

Such a women's love as you describe is typically more biased towards money, and the materialism it funds. That is what she ultimately feels will give her the least suffering. Maybe she transposes his face with the money, to make him tolerable, if not render him attractive. It is true that women think about the shopping list while having sex, it's not just a common saying. In this sense women can be seen as prostitutes.

[sue hindmarsh]

...and men their customers.

-

[jupta]

These forces can be transcended, to create a better form of evolution.

How?

[sue hindmarsh]

Rhett wrote:

I think it was obvious that i was talking about more versus less intelligence, within the conventional realm. About IQ, not wisdom. Sometimes doing this has a place here.

Yeah, but you can’t expect anyone (here, at least) to take seriously your meanderings about whether or not women are “more, or less” attracted to “intelligent” men. Hey, I can tell you right now that sometimes they are, and sometimes they are not. It all depends on...well...on nothing, and everything! Come on Rhett, being the trivial creatures that they are, you can’t expect that there would be a hard and fast explanation for their actions. It’s like trying to catch hold of your shadow - a complete waste of your time.

The way to win women is to be as trivial as they are. Worry about every single thing about yourself: are you too handsome, or not handsome enough; are you too rich, or too poor; is your job interesting to others, or a complete bore; is your body fit and taut, your teeth white, your hairdo “cool”, your shoes “in”; are you good in bed, or do you reek of desperation and fumble around too much; are your friends jealous of you; do you have heaps of friends on your My Space page; is your mobile always within reach; have you a “cool” enough car; do you smell ok; ... ... ... ... ... Then present yourself in front of a few women, and let one of them pick you. Easy as that!

[sue hindmarsh]

Foreigner,

You asked about what attracts a woman to a man. See above my tips on how to win a girlfriend.

Or - better put: how to become a chosen one.

-

[sue hindmarsh]

Rhett wrote:

Skip needs confidence that his emotions and mind will be better off in the long run by skipping women.

Skip wouldn’t have set himself on that path if he wasn’t already fairly confident that his life will be improved by said “skipping”. It is no easy task he has set himself, for no one skips out on women easily. But his feelings about women in general may well be what helps him achieve his quest. Here he is summing up his addiction, and women, with great candour:

Skip: I don't think the way out of this hot, heavy fog of mine is going to be consideration of the rational future of women. That I am convinced is a dead end.

If he is able to hold this conviction, he may well succeed in becoming so extremely bored by women that he won’t be able to take anything about her seriously ever again – and that includes sex, and all its accompanying emotions.

It will depend of course on whether or not he is able to maintain his love of the rational whilst in the midst of women. Say he found the woman of his dreams and fell head over heels in love with her. What would be the plan then Skip?

[Foreigner]

Foreigner,

You asked about what attracts a woman to a man.
(I did?)
See above my tips on how to win a girlfriend.

Or - better put: how to become a chosen one.

-

This is no place to fish for tips to pick up chicks, Sue. I had other things in mind with my questions. Was hoping you, or some other intelligent woman, might shoot off some short responses to all my questions above, and Im still hoping!

We all know how stubborn most men are about girlfriend looks, and how his interest in the woman usually fades with her looks regardless of all other factors. Often referred to as "shallow" men.
Well I was hoping to discuss, analyze and compare the shallowness of 21st century women, but i first need a few things answered a few facts from a dependable female source. Hence my questions.

If I am mistaken please someone do say so,,, but I find in general that woman are very reluctant to freely share such facts especially when questioned by men, and also here in this truth-finding forum over the years the situation has not been much better than in the world at large, in this regard particularly.

Gender mistrust no doubt at the bottom, but why even here for goodness sake!

[skipair]

Say he found the woman of his dreams and fell head over heels in love with her. What would be the plan then Skip?

I don't think that's possible for me anymore. I'm in it for the sport, and I get off by taking credit for attracting any of them - the more pretty/feminine/sexual the better the buzz. I can't love women. I can only love myself through women.

[sue hindmarsh]

Ok Skip, but that sounds minefieldish too. The ego is a slippery character. An ego heavily tied to "gaming women" isn't going to let go that easily. You're young now, but what happens when you are nearing your 40's, then 50's, and 60's+? What's your plan then to handling being a long term horny bachelor?

Another question based on my post to Rhett about the trivial nature of women: aren't you the tiniest bit afraid that all this time you are devoting to working hard so that women notice you - and thereby always having to be on their level just so that they can see you - that you yourself will entirely morph into woman yourself? You know it happens all the time! As Dan says, "Be afraid! Be very afraid!" The ego and woman are very much on the same wave length.

[sue hindmarsh]

Foreigner wrote:

This is no place to fish for tips to pick up chicks, Sue. I had other things in mind with my questions. Was hoping you, or some other intelligent woman, might shoot off some short responses to all my questions above, and Im still hoping!

I was making your life easier for you by informing you that it doesn't matter what a woman says she likes, because it would have changed by the time you heard it.

What is it that you have "in mind" with your questions?

[Robert]

With my work activity, I'm often in meetings with women who work in the cosmetics industry - skin care products, makeup, perfumes, all that crap. Imagine the environment, big city offices filled with beautiful mindless creatures blathering on about their babies, boyfriends and failing marriages, giving you the full-on 'come fuck me, you know you want to' body language just so you'll do what they want you to, which you do since they're so used to getting their own way practically 100% of the time. The only time they don't is when something goes wrong or something happens they don't understand with their computer, they practically throw a tantrum. Of course, living here in France makes the whole thing worse since French men are in general so woman-like and only too happy to please the ladies.

[sue hindmarsh]

Robert, you don't sound too happy with your lot. Many men would be though. Particularly the bit about French women "giving you the full-on 'come fuck me, you know you want to' body language". Oh la la!!!

Sounds like you might need a new work environment.

Skip might be interested in your job. ; )

[sue hindmarsh]

Robert wrote:

French men are in general so woman-like

Obsessed with food and fashion as the French seem to be - it hardly seems a wonder.
-

[sue hindmarsh]

Skip wrote:

Sue: Skip and Rhett appear to be describing a form of intelligent man that is wholly unlike all those other men. They don't describe clearly what the attributes of that intelligent man are exactly, but since this is a philosophic forum, I guess they are referring to the man who values thinking, freedom, and individuality. But that can't be right.

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

I bunched you in with Rhett not because you agreed with his ideas about “intelligent” men’s potential for getting laid (or not), but because of your attachment to the idea of the skilled sexual communicator. As I’d already pointed out in an earlier post, what most people consider to be rational use of one’s intelligence turns out to be just more fodder for women. The post that you have questioned was about weighing up whether either your sexual-communicator-intelligence or Rhett’s intelligent-man had any lasting place in the spiritual landscape. My finding was that neither does, though both ideas are useful in unraveling the psychology behind man’s need of woman. (All of which I hope Foreigner is finding edifying.)

[Robert]

Robert, you don't sound too happy with your lot. Many men would be though. Particularly the bit about French women "giving you the full-on 'come fuck me, you know you want to' body language". Oh la la!!!

Sue, it's all show, I know they have no intention of letting me anywhere near them (unfortunately!). Yeah, I sound blasé about it since I'm used to it and don't see anything particularly interesting about that kind of environment anymore, other than making some money and chatting to (sometimes exceptionally) pretty women.

Fortunately though, I work freelance, so I don't have to be in that kind of workplace too often. The men that work full time in these places strike fear into me like nothing else - apart from the obvious gay guys, the hetero men are a caracture of either the latino macho type (open shirt, hairy chest, slicked back black hair), the young hipster type (the latest daft looking clothes and hair) or the elder more business-like father figures (who mostly just appear to me to be lingering shadows and always look like they've lost something).

To describe myself amongst these beautiful people, I like that Bill Hicks joke that goes something like, "They all have tanned skin and white teeth. I have white skin and tanned teeth".

[Nick]

Say he found the woman of his dreams and fell head over heels in love with her. What would be the plan then Skip?

I don't think that's possible for me anymore. I'm in it for the sport, and I get off by taking credit for attracting any of them - the more pretty/feminine/sexual the better the buzz. I can't love women. I can only love myself through women.

It sounds like you skipped the "falling in love phase" and went straight to marriage. Just like most married men are far from being head over heels in love with their wives, they still "get off" by taking credit for being able to keep their marriage afloat (keeping their wives attracted to them enough so that they don't file for divorce), and it definitely appears that married men are only as happy as their wives are, or like you said, they can only love their selves through their women. Only difference is, instead of being married to one woman and her demands, you are married to all women and their demands, well at least the pretty ones. That must be a lot of work Skip. Is it as much trouble as I'm imagining it to be, and is it really worth it?

[skipair]

You're young now, but what happens when you are nearing your 40's, then 50's, and 60's+? What's your plan then to handling being a long term horny bachelor?

Fuck the women in my harem, I guess.

aren't you the tiniest bit afraid that all this time you are devoting to working hard so that women notice you - and thereby always having to be on their level just so that they can see you - that you yourself will entirely morph into woman yourself?

Yes. This is why I'm disgusted with myself sometimes. Sometimes it scares me how I'm not disgusted by it.

For example, I look down upon women getting all their plastic surgery. My Mom has breast implants and my sister had eye surgery to correct a lazy eye. "How weak and shallow they are," I thought! But recently, I'll get an erection and squeeze the base of my dick. The more I do this the more my dick grows in general. Women see the buldge and give me lots of attention. But this is no different from girls getting their surgery. Yet, I apparently don't look down upon it enough in myself to stop. Instead I just carry a bad conscience.

Too much info?

[skipair]

It sounds like you skipped the "falling in love phase" and went straight to marriage. Just like most married men are far from being head over heels in love with their wives, they still "get off" by taking credit for being able to keep their marriage afloat (keeping their wives attracted to them enough so that they don't file for divorce), and it definitely appears that married men are only as happy as their wives are, or like you said, they can only love their selves through their women. Only difference is, instead of being married to one woman and her demands, you are married to all women and their demands, well at least the pretty ones. That must be a lot of work Skip. Is it as much trouble as I'm imagining it to be, and is it really worth it?

It's a lot of trouble, and in the end it's not worth it. But I'm not convinced of this down to my soul, and don't think I will be until I take care of some unfinished business. I need to explore more to find out for sure.

That, or go into solitude where I don't miss or search for women. I plan to do both.

[Shahrazad]

Sue said,

Then present yourself in front of a few women, and let one of them pick you.

Do men really want women to pick them? I thought they find a woman they really like and then work at getting her to fall in love.

[Nick]

It's a lot of trouble, and in the end it's not worth it. But I'm not convinced of this down to my soul, and don't think I will be until I take care of some unfinished business. I need to explore more to find out for sure.

What exactly is it you need to resolve? What is it about women that makes it worth going out of your way to please, flatter, entertain, and pursue them? Try flipping it around and imagine how you would feel if it were a woman pursuing you like that. Wouldn't you think something along the lines of; why does this girl want to get to know me so bad, there's nothing that incredibly amazing about me, there must be something a little bit off with this girl. At least this is what any person with a conscience might think, but women don't. So what do they do? They let it happen and it plays right into their hands, exactly what a person without a conscience would do.

Or another way to look at it is to imagine pursuing the friendship of a man the same way you pursue a woman. It would be like some kind of pathetic celebrity worship. Again, any man with a conscience would never imagine pursuing a man's friendship in such a way, so why do we lose sight of this when it comes to women?

That, or go into solitude where I don't miss or search for women. I plan to do both.

Solitude is definitely helpful. Keeps the distractions to minimum, and abstinence is good preparation for when change can begin to come from within.

[Shahrazad]

Skip,

For example, I look down upon women getting all their plastic surgery. My Mom has breast implants and my sister had eye surgery to correct a lazy eye. "How weak and shallow they are," I thought! But recently, I'll get an erection and squeeze the base of my dick. The more I do this the more my dick grows in general. Women see the buldge and give me lots of attention. But this is no different from girls getting their surgery. Yet, I apparently don't look down upon it enough in myself to stop. Instead I just carry a bad conscience.

Men are such hypocrites.

In general, if men want women to stop having breast implants and other cosmetic surgery, they need to stop giving so much importance to a woman's looks.