Judging Others

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
Iolaus
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Iolaus »

Just FYI as a newbie here, the cult dogma, propagated by the Founding Three and accepted as Gospel by all followers, is that poetry (actually aesthetics in general) is considered sissy stuff, unworthy of the superior rationality of the masculine perspective.
It was no compliment from either David or Carl.

But Kevin has, or at least used to have, a link to his favorite poetry, including some great stuff written by women.
Truth is a pathless land.
mikiel
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Re: Judging Others

Post by mikiel »

But Kevin has, or at least used to have, a link to his favorite poetry, including some great stuff written by women.
That's news to me. Thanks.
I've mistakenly come to believe that the three were clones or "Siamese" triplets joined at the heads.
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Carl G
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Carl G »

mikiel had a little lambast
on the screen as white as snow
And oft' times when mikiel posted
That lambast was sure to flow
Good Citizen Carl
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Shahrazad
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Shahrazad »

.
Just FYI as a newbie here, the cult dogma, propagated by the Founding Three and accepted as Gospel by all followers, is that poetry (actually aesthetics in general) is considered sissy stuff, unworthy of the superior rationality of the masculine perspective.
Dan Rowden likes to write poetry. And not just any poetry: romantic poetry. Do you need a link?

.
Steven Coyle

Re: Judging Others

Post by Steven Coyle »

Lol. Oohh!
mikiel
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Re: Judging Others

Post by mikiel »

Shahrazad wrote:.
Just FYI as a newbie here, the cult dogma, propagated by the Founding Three and accepted as Gospel by all followers, is that poetry (actually aesthetics in general) is considered sissy stuff, unworthy of the superior rationality of the masculine perspective.
Dan Rowden likes to write poetry. And not just any poetry: romantic poetry. Do you need a link?

.
Sure, they had me fooled all these months with all the diss-ing of aesthetics in their posts here. Are they schizophrenic or what? Maybe its just a mild case of multiple personalities.
I'm not much good at "searching" but it would be a riot if I could find a good representative sample of the above "dissing" and post it along side of their poetry. At least it would give everyone a good laugh.
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David Quinn
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Re: Judging Others

Post by David Quinn »

It is a case of appealing to people on different levels. Poetry can help trigger insights and altered perspectives in some people's minds, although it is limited in its scope. It is low-level teaching for people on low levels.

It's all relative. Poetry is a genius-activity compared to raping children and hitting little old ladies over the head, but it pales into insignificance when compared to logical investigation and the endeavour to comprehend reality.

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mikiel
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Re: Judging Others

Post by mikiel »

Carl G wrote:mikiel had a little lambast
on the screen as white as snow
And oft' times when mikiel posted
That lambast was sure to flow
"Nobody likes me; everybody hates me...
Guess Ill go eat worms."

This is really funny. If it were a popularity contest ... like Myspace, I'd have already been banned, like from there, long ago.
("Granny", their science forum moderators' credo: Be nice above all else... including being honest or critical... (paraphrased, of course!)

But all nasty insults are, from my perspective, a kind of game of confronting egocentric nasty insults in like manner. This is the topic of this thread, and i have already shared my perspective on the difference between egoic "nasty judgement" and "enlightened" response in kind, based on "selfless discernment." Plus the ironic fact that egocentric consciousness doesn't know the difference... by definition.
This should be good for yet another derisive laugh in ridicule of the inevitably perceived egotistical arrogance of this post.

What fun!
Last edited by mikiel on Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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protilius
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Re: Judging Others

Post by protilius »

mikiel wrote:
Dave Toast wrote:
protilius wrote:So if poetry is all you see, then I suppose I should thank you for considering me elegant enough with words to actually "be" a poet.
Poetry, at least in the sense discussed here, is rather the polar opposite of linguistic elegance.
Protilius,
Just FYI as a newbie here, the cult dogma, propagated by the Founding Three and accepted as Gospel by all followers, is that poetry (actually aesthetics in general) is considered sissy stuff, unworthy of the superior rationality of the masculine perspective.
So what would you call an individual unwilling to consider a valid point being he doesn't like the language its spoken in? Newb or not... I can't help but feel that a few members here are a bit on the shallow side even if polite.

I came to these forums to discuss observations... not be to be blasted with bias opinions and then be told I'm an idiot in so few words.

Your quote totally comes off like you are a member of a cult without explaining who or what "The founding three" are, much less the "followers." Such words reek of unfounded elitism.

Starting to get some creepy vibes here. Although I'm sure what you refer to must be common knowledge to all of "the followers" I may encounter in these forums.

I do have to say, I've only been posting here for several days and I've had "way" to many negative encounters with would be "enlightened individuals." I doubt the credibility I've been seeing here... Enlightenment and judgmental perspectives weren't exactly two concepts I ever saw walking hand and hand.

Genius comes in many forms... If people choose to only accept they're own language as reasonable thought, then I have to say arrogance and ignorance is consistent theme here, and to be honest, I'm not interested in joining that club.

I doubt I'll be returning to this forum... It has been a waist of my time thus far and will likely continue to be.

Enjoy your non-poetic debates, have fun scalding people and patting one another on the back for having an elitist perspective...
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Carl G
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Carl G »

A bunny rabbit raised in a cage at the farm enjoyed the food brought round to him twice a day, and the shelter from rain and all, but found himself longing to be free. One day he saw his chance and broke out. He hopped across the farm field and into the hedgerow. That evening as he nibbled a choice stalk of grass, he was surprised by a fox. He barely escaped after a quick run into a thicket. Venturing out after dusk, he was attacked from the air by an owl. Next morning the farmer found him, battered and hungry, hanging around the hutch, waiting to be let back in.
Good Citizen Carl
mikiel
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Re: Judging Others

Post by mikiel »

Your quote totally comes off like you are a member of a cult without explaining who or what "The founding three" are, much less the "followers." Such words reek of unfounded elitism.
Woah, buddy! You totally misunderstood me. I am a critic of this little cult. The founding three are Dan, Kevin, and David . Those who consistently agree with the "QRS Philosophy" (Initials of their last names) are the followers whom I also critucize in the course of debate.

Don't go away mad. Stick around... Stand your ground... Say what's on your mind as a free thinker. There are few of us here, as I see it, in that category.
Gotta go.
Dave Toast
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Dave Toast »

Carl G wrote:mikiel had a little lambast
on the screen as white as snow
And oft' times when mikiel posted
That lambast was sure to flow
Saviour of cosmology
supernatural epistemology
gifted seer
Cult leader
delusion feeder
glory beer
IQ brags
can't use tags
glory meer
Given to lambast
riven with bombast
Fear? NPDer?
Quick to vex
the messianic complex
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David Quinn
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Re: Judging Others

Post by David Quinn »

I'm not sure which is funnier. Mikiel ("I am the Messiah") accusing others of being in a cult, or Prolitius ("I am so lofty that I cannot even be bothered to find out about who is actually here") accusing others of elitism.

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Kelly Jones
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Kelly Jones »

Hello Protilius,

Prot wrote:Once any individual feels helpless to stop something from happening to them, a realization settles in... "I am not in control of my life, even though it is my own, I am helpless to stop this from happening to me." It is likely one of the worst realizations a person can have.

Kelly: It is usually wishful thinking. Not in the case of an old person, someone very set in their ways, or someone who's brain has been damaged.

Prot: Concerning your thoughts on wishful thinking... I dont quite follow, please elaborate.
If a person feels they are not in control of their life, and feels it is the worst sort of realisation to have, or indeed has any kind of emotional reaction to this idea, then it's wishful thinking. They intuitively know they are still responsible for letting things slide, and for fuelling their feeling of terror. They wish this feeling of powerlessness upon themselves, because they enjoy the joke. Ultimately, of course, they don't believe it.

However, there's another situation which isn't wishful thinking, or the other possibilities I raised earlier. It is when there is no emotional reaction to the knowledge that one is not in control of one's life, or anything else. This comes when one realises that there's no God in control, or some external force. What happens in this case, is that there has been a lot of thinking about the nature of interdependent origination of things. One has thought so much about how things are all causally created, that one realises that things aren't inherently existing. And, in turn, that oneself is just like this. Thus, it is just a rational idea, showing that all is cause and effect. So there is no room for fear (there is no inherently existing self to fear its destruction), or for happiness (there is no inherently existing self to feel empowered).

Hope this helps to explain it.
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Shahrazad
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Shahrazad »

David,
I'm not sure which is funnier. Mikiel ("I am the Messiah") accusing others of being in a cult, or Prolitius ("I am so lofty that I cannot even be bothered to find out about who is actually here") accusing others of elitism.
I think the funniest of all is Mikiel accusing Dan of being judgmental and arrogant.
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Shahrazad
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Shahrazad »

Mikiel,

The website I'm trying to link you to seems to be down. I'll get back to you later.
mikiel
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Re: Judging Others

Post by mikiel »

David Quinn wrote:I'm not sure which is funnier. Mikiel ("I am the Messiah") accusing others of being in a cult, or Prolitius ("I am so lofty that I cannot even be bothered to find out about who is actually here") accusing others of elitism.

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What part of this did you not understand... or did you just ignore it out of hard-wired prejudice against me "personally?"
m:
But all nasty insults are, from my perspective, a kind of game of confronting egocentric nasty insults in like manner. This is the topic of this thread, and i have already shared my perspective on the difference between egoic "nasty judgement" and "enlightened" response in kind, based on "selfless discernment." Plus the ironic fact that egocentric consciousness doesn't know the difference... by definition.....
BTW, to the forum (David is not listening):
I have *never* said, as libelously quoted, "I am the Messiah." The formal use of quotes, as I understand it, means that the person quoted actually said it. (If there were a court to claim damages for character assassination in a case like this, I would, for the sake of the truth, take him to the cleaners on this falsehood.

I have said repeatedly on these boards that God is omnipresent consciousness manifesting as the whole cosmos, including all of us.
Some know it (gnosis... enlightenment) and most don't... the vast majority of mankind, including, quite obviously, David.
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Shahrazad
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Shahrazad »

Mikiel,
(If there were a court to claim damages for character assassination in a case like this, I would, for the sake of the truth, take him to the cleaners on this falsehood.
Do you realize that David is not a rich bloke? Taking him to court will accomplish exactly nothing, except of course, getting yourself some attention.

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mikiel
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Re: Judging Others

Post by mikiel »

Shah:
I think the funniest of all is Mikiel accusing Dan of being judgmental and arrogant.
Not too suprising considering that you worship Dan and hate me.

...And that you *can not know* the difference between discernment from a perspective of equanimity (with no personal attachments) and personally biased hostile judjement such as you constantly display to the "discerning" eye.

No problem. You don't know the difference so you *must* judge from egoic consciousness. As you said, you are programed to (dislike... hate?) me. I already said that I am sorry that you are still a programed robot. Liberation is the alternative, but you must surrender your (presently all-important) "self."
Selflessness is enlightenment. This will remain a great mystery to you 'til you get over your "self."
Dave Toast
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Dave Toast »

Michael "Doesn't understand basic linguistic conventions" Mooney
mikiel
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Re: Judging Others

Post by mikiel »

Shahrazad wrote:Mikiel,
(If there were a court to claim damages for character assassination in a case like this, I would, for the sake of the truth, take him to the cleaners on this falsehood.
Do you realize that David is not a rich bloke? Taking him to court will accomplish exactly nothing, except of course, getting yourself some attention.

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I just wanted to draw "attention" to the fact that he misquoted me with the obvious motive of bearing false witness in an attempt at character assassination. A criminal act in the 'real world.'
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David Quinn
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Re: Judging Others

Post by David Quinn »

Mikiel wrote:I have *never* said, as libelously quoted, "I am the Messiah." The formal use of quotes, as I understand it, means that the person quoted actually said it. (If there were a court to claim damages for character assassination in a case like this, I would, for the sake of the truth, take him to the cleaners on this falsehood.
Bring it on, big boy. I'll take on your daddy as well.

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mikiel
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Re: Judging Others

Post by mikiel »

Dave Toast wrote:Michael "Doesn't understand basic linguistic conventions" Mooney
So now its down to the most trivial possible level of debate... (one of the most, anyway) "linguistic conventions."

I could probably discover what you are referring to (or should that be "to what you are referring?") if I reviewed my recent posts with an eye to that sort of thing...
But, frankly i still don't give a rat's ass about this forum's (or specifically your) obsession with "linguistic conventions."
We have all been over this so many times before... and I *still don't care!* (You can't *make me care.*) Get it?
mikiel
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Re: Judging Others

Post by mikiel »

David Quinn wrote:
Mikiel wrote:I have *never* said, as libelously quoted, "I am the Messiah." The formal use of quotes, as I understand it, means that the person quoted actually said it. (If there were a court to claim damages for character assassination in a case like this, I would, for the sake of the truth, take him to the cleaners on this falsehood.
Bring it on, big boy. I'll take on your daddy as well.

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My "daddy" died in '86.' If you are referring to the man in the wheel chair who originally bought our land and made me First Trustee, having won his case with the bike company on points of indisputable fact (and made our land a legal, non-profit trust in concert with his lawyer)...
If... then... he could "take you for all you are worth" (if you were worth anything!) in a court of civil law.

But the the internet is more like a cyber-game. Libel here is not subject to the same laws as in the world of "meatspace" (where you might have misquoted me in front of a convention of real people.)

Are you really spoiling for a fight man to man, in the flesh? How degrading to the forum you have co-founded with such a lofty mission!

I am no longer (since my days as a conscientious objector in the Nam era) a pacifist. And I would be glad to kick your ass if you brought the fight to me. But this is not (ideally) what this forum is about. Ironic that I am reminding you of this 'subtle' point!

Never mind that you did not respond to the substance of my post. You seldom do.
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David Quinn
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Re: Judging Others

Post by David Quinn »

This will probably be my defence in court:

"Your Honour, we have in our midst a man who has entirely given up his ego since 1993. Can there be a greater attainment than this? Can anyone go higher? Not even Jesus could go higher than this. It is the ultimate peak of human existence, and the plaintiff, by his own humble admission, reached such a peak 15 years ago.

Now, given that Jesus is often referred to as a Messiah, and given that the plaintiff is, by his own admission, on the same level as Jesus, possibly even exceeding it, it stands to reason that we too should refer to him as a Messiah. That he hasn't yet referred to himself as a Messiah is surely proof of his humilty and modesty and thus strengthens the case, if such strengthening is needed, that he is indeed a Messiah.

Thus, my defense rests on the clear and indisputable fact that my remark was not libelous in nature, but merely an affirmation of what is true, as the plaintiff himself will surely attest in strong thunderous tones, and so I ask Your Worship to regard this case as a waste of the court's time and to dismiss it forthwith. Thank you."

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