Slavedom

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
Kevin Solway
Posts: 2766
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 8:43 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Slavedom

Post by Kevin Solway »

Kelly Jones recently posted the following observation in a tip at Tips-A2Z:
If a person cannot save enough for a house and land in less than five years, either the accommodation planned is obscenely luxurious, or the person is a debt-ridden slave.
We supposedly have a "high standard of living", yet if we want a simple block of land, without a house on it, it can cost upwards of $200,000, and take most of one's life to pay-off.

The truth is that most people are willing slaves. We could live somewhere cheap if we want to. I believe that land in the Arizona desert isn't all that expensive, but most people are brainwashed into believing they must live near Starbucks and the Cinema.

I believe that a large part of the rat-race is the competition for women. How many women want to live and raise a family in the Arizona desert? Man is an animal that needs to build his nest where the females are. But that's another story.

The Tips-A2Z site has now reached 1000 tips, and I think is becoming quite a useful resource. You must all have some kind of special knowledge about something, so share what you know. I always find "Living on a budget" tips particularly useful.
User avatar
brad walker
Posts: 300
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:49 am
Location: be an eye

Re: Slavedom

Post by brad walker »

New website, eh? Good luck.

Code: Select all

	
Domain name: tips-a2z.com

Registrant Contact:
   Kevin Solway

Iolaus
Posts: 1033
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:14 pm

Re: Slavedom

Post by Iolaus »

Kevin, are you talking about Australia or America?

I have several acres and a house in a rather lush and green part of the world, with a mediumish climate. Land is about 1K an acre there, 500 dollars when I bought it ten years ago.

Rural, not a lot of jobs.

But in the city, the place which was once not particularly high rent, the place where my kids were born, owned by my ex's Dad, is just a normal city lot and it's now worth at least 250k just for the land. It's not even a quarter of an acre. Maybe an 8th.
Truth is a pathless land.
User avatar
Carl G
Posts: 2659
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Slavedom

Post by Carl G »

Cheap land in the boonies is fine if one is financially independent or gains one's income from elsewhere, like Stephen King the writer who lives in a small town in Maine. But if one must make a living, well, places like the Arizona desert don't offer the jobs to pay for even cheap digs. Not to mention the car and fuel to travel to town for supplies and services.

If the basic goal is sane living, well, there's no certain scenario. For me, living on the outskirts of small cities has proven best.
Good Citizen Carl
User avatar
Diebert van Rhijn
Posts: 6469
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: Slavedom

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Brad, old hat - Kevin announced it here a year ago.
Kevin Solway wrote:The truth is that most people are willing slaves. We could live somewhere cheap if we want to. I believe that land in the Arizona desert isn't all that expensive, but most people are brainwashed into believing they must live near Starbucks and the Cinema.

I believe that a large part of the rat-race is the competition for women.
Kevin, you appear to be way too simplistic here. I know lots of people and families who'd like to live in a desert or more rural, remote area. Myself included. As Carl noted, the point is more the distance to work which pays for upkeep, food, health care, transport etc.

So the larger points would be, for the period after buying property:

- methods to grow ones own food or trading
- off the grid, how much?
- transport to get things done, relying on neighbors? Community becomes vital
- get some financing arranged; the dole situation can be considered rare
- hire yourself out for manual labor?

If there was such an easy attractive way to live 'undisturbed' while retaining an income from the government, many would flock there instantaneously. With the rise of online opportunities, there are ways to live more remote and cheap while still get some income through teleworking, as more and more lowly populated areas invest in that infrastructure too. Personally I'm exploring that option.

Carl's suggestion sounds most sane at this time, not too close, not too far. A cheap apartment is easy to arrange for even the lowest income or government benefit. Just suffer the neighbors you bound to end up with in such place :)
User avatar
Ryan Rudolph
Posts: 2490
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:32 am
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Slavedom

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

Kevin,
We supposedly have a "high standard of living", yet if we want a simple block of land, without a house on it, it can cost upwards of $200,000, and take most of one's life to pay-off.

The truth is that most people are willing slaves. We could live somewhere cheap if we want to. I believe that land in the Arizona desert isn't all that expensive, but most people are brainwashed into believing they must live near Starbucks and the Cinema.

I believe that a large part of the rat-race is the competition for women. How many women want to live and raise a family in the Arizona desert? Man is an animal that needs to build his nest where the females are. But that's another story.

The Tips-A2Z site has now reached 1000 tips, and I think is becoming quite a useful resource. You must all have some kind of special knowledge about something, so share what you know. I always find "Living on a budget" tips particularly useful.
Two Factors - increased customer demand, (growing cities), and government induced inflation, and as a result, we have the rising costs of commodities and raw materials that are mostly responsible for the raising costs of real estate in the major urban centers.

However, there is some truth in what you say regarding people’s luxurious tastes. People generally are willing to pay more money for lots that they perceive as high class/beautiful/special. For instance: An ocean view, a lake front, or a skyline view from a luxury condo in the center of the downtown gives a certain feeling of power, uniqueness, and the feeling that one has captured a beautiful piece of the world for all oneself. The ego knows what is beautiful, but is driven through the emotional drives to capture as much for himself as he can. And as you say, he creates his own shackles to pay for such lofty choices.

Generally, homes are too large, as they have too many add-ons and extras. Plus the construction of the home and all its related technology is quite expensive to produce anyway. A home requires quite a bit of human labor and materials even if it is conservatively built.

Moreover, it doesn’t help that humans generally live in the moment, and don’t consider the future generations at all, people usually build a home merely to please a romantic companion, and when they break up, the home is sold, and therefore they aren’t able to save anything for their own retirement or the future of their own children, who may have potential to be more than what they were. In the present system, the notions of "romance" and "family" are the factors that govern the buying, selling, and passing on of residential real estate. It is a very fickle, immediate and irrational system.

In my opinion, societies of geniuses and intellectuals should cooperate similar to how the English gentry used to operate. I think humans could move towards a sort of enlightened future planning scenario, where communities of geniuses live their estates to the next generation of geniuses, so they will not be burdened with trying to secure the basic necessities early in life when they should be perfecting their minds, and perfecting their ability to analyze reality.

An enlightened organization could be formed with the sole objective of increasing the land, assets, access to wisdom, science and basic necessities for future generations of geniuses. It would be similar to how a monastery for monks works, but more intelligent, and less isolated from the world. There would need to be direct engagement with the world though.

An elitist agency that serves the future generations of young intellectuals that have potential for enlighenment...hmm, could it ever work?
User avatar
Cory Duchesne
Posts: 2320
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:35 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Slavedom

Post by Cory Duchesne »

What about intentional communities? Seems pretty sane and ethical - and there are more women comprising such communities than there are men.

The problem with such communities though, generally, is that the members are still pretty high maintenance, emotionally. New agey beliefs, or even conservative religious beliefs dominate the atmosphere. And the reason there are so many women in such agricultural communities may be due to the fact that the simplicity of such a lifestyle is a boost to their self esteem. Modern society is very complex, individualistic and competitive - and there are many who can't maintain their pride in such a climate. Therefore, the simplicity and cooperation of an agrarian, communal lifestyle becomes appealing to a certain type of ego (arguably a more feminine one).
User avatar
Ryan Rudolph
Posts: 2490
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:32 am
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Slavedom

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

Cory,

You’re right there, but the beauty of intentional communities is that they're almost always united with some sort of cooperative vision, even though that vision maybe incomplete, and based on half-truths, and positivist philosophy. However, Many times, the positivist philosophy works okay in these communities because it keeps all the imperfect members united, especially if combined with a very pro-green, and pro-environment ideology, and a charismatic leader.

It seems to me that if an organization was established with an objective and a set of operating guidelines similar to a company then it could be successful. And if the values, and lifestyle were provided up front as a sort of constitutional document than the mediocre would be scared off. For instance: if the lifestyle provided very little feminine entertainment, and it was made clear that the community is exclusively for young male thinkers, who wish to study privately and with others, the highest quality philosophy/science/art in a solitary atmosphere, then many wouldn't be all that interested.

Moreover, Perhaps the sage/genius could eventually be regarded globally as a different type of human being that requires a slightly different living environment and lifestyle. That doesn’t mean that the government would be obligated to give free handouts, but it would be a step in the direction of rationality to at least acknowledge that there exists a minority of intellectual humans that don’t quite fit into the conventional framework of civilization. It could be recognized that there exists a group of humans that don’t value traditional values of “family” “entertainment” and “femininity in general”

The sage is such a minority that the world isn’t even actually aware of it yet as a minority.

It would be nice to develop a community with the latest exposure to the best technology, philosophy, science, and art, while providing minimalist accommodations and nutritional diet. A sort of futuristic community. A self-sustaining body of economic assets that grows over time, and provides a fertile environment for young spiritual seekers that don’t have the inherited wealth to dedicate all their time to the perfection of their minds. It could operate as a sort of university or school in a sense, except for that people may decide to leave and work in civilizaiton, and then come back. It would be a open door policy for anyone that has sage or higher empirical knowledge potential.

Think about how many young fertile male minds have probably self-destructed prematurely because the environment was just a little too harsh, and they weren’t any sage safety nets established. An example would be the movie, “Into the wild” it is an example of the male drive for absolute liberation, but fuelled by the wrong spiritual ideology, and a naïve understanding of the complexity of reality, and the result was fatal. Another male mind with potential lost.
User avatar
Diebert van Rhijn
Posts: 6469
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: Slavedom

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Ryan Rudolph wrote: It would be nice to develop a community with the latest exposure to the best technology, philosophy, science, and art, while providing minimalist accommodations and nutritional diet.
In earlier times monasteries could be regarded as examples. Relatively those places were quite advanced in technology, literature and sobriety, compared to most of the world around them.

With that in mind it's easy to see the problem: the organizational degree, including the needed hierarchy, rules, procedures and so on needed to make a medium to large modern accommodation function, will repel "young fertile male minds" with their rather grand ideals - or needs - of individuality.

Nothing can be built without organization, nothing can be organized without submitting to a larger body than oneself. No larger body can exist without rules and procedures defined and agreed on. This is how religion got organized in the first place after all.
User avatar
Ryan Rudolph
Posts: 2490
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:32 am
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Slavedom

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

Diebert,
With that in mind it's easy to see the problem: the organizational degree, including the needed hierarchy, rules, procedures and so on needed to make a medium to large modern accommodation function, will repel "young fertile male minds" with their rather grand ideals - or needs - of individuality.
You don’t present the idea as if it is some sort of community that you must submit to completely, you present it as a temporarily refugee for intellectuals to remove themselves from the world of survival long enough to achieve enlighenment, and if they want to leave, then they leave, if they want to stay and help by submitting to a role or rank based on what talent they have, then they stay, or if they are very ambitious, and possess a wide range of skills, plus they have resources themselves, then they could branch out and manage their own center.

In my opinion, If you give the ego possibilities and choice in the beginning, there is more receptivity.
Nothing can be built without organization, nothing can be organized without submitting to a larger body than oneself. No larger body can exist without rules and procedures defined and agreed on. This is how religion got organized in the first place after all.
And that is not a bad thing, and it should be explained from the beginning that there are competing impulses operating within the sentient being –

On other one hand, there is a more masculine impulse for absolute freedom, (which is unrealistic in my option) its aim is to be totally independent, not submitted to anything, not to be dependent, or a dependent on some sort of obligation or responsibility.

And then there is the more feminine impulse to unite for some sort of greater vision, to cooperate in some fashion, to serve as a reliable contributor of something of great value. To take on responsibilities and obligations that will make life for future generations better than the current state.

And it seems me that one must balance these conflicting impulses, and reach some sort of common ground. Perhaps the feminine impulse can work better if it is grounded in masculine values, but the masculine impulse for absolute freedom is abandoned as unrealistic.

Dependence is inevitable, and therefore resistance is futile..: )
Kevin Solway
Posts: 2766
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 8:43 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Slavedom

Post by Kevin Solway »

Ryan Rudolph wrote:On other one hand, there is a more masculine impulse for absolute freedom, (which is unrealistic in my option) its aim is to be totally independent
Not totally independent. For example, our existence is dependent on there being space, and energy supply (food/fuel/oxygen), etc, and there's nothing we can do about that. I would say that the higher masculine impulse is towards not being dependent on illusions.
And then there is the more feminine impulse to unite for some sort of greater vision, to cooperate in some fashion, to serve as a reliable contributor of something of great value.
I disagree here too. Women, generally speaking, have no concept of "great value", or even value at all. Women do not unite with their environment for some kind of intelligent reason, but simply because it is what they passively do. Women unite with their environment in the same way that, say, water does, or air.
User avatar
Carl G
Posts: 2659
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Slavedom

Post by Carl G »

Cory wrote:
What about intentional communities? Seems pretty sane and ethical - and there are more women comprising such communities than there are men.
I do not believe there are more women that men at such places, from my own experience and from looking through some websites some time back. The reasons, I think, include these: such places tend to be physically less comfortable than living in the 'outside world', there is more work involved, and there is more government -- self-governance takes a lot of time and effort. Also, these type of places call for a higher degree of idealism -- vision, if you will.
Good Citizen Carl
Kevin Solway
Posts: 2766
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 8:43 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Slavedom

Post by Kevin Solway »

This is the way it appears to me:

People seek to live near where there is lots of work, which is generally in the city, and they have to pay astronomical prices to do so. But they still live far enough away from work that they require a car to drive to work, and they need petrol for the car. So almost everything they earn at work goes towards paying for the privilege of living not too far from work, and paying for a car so they can drive to work. Hence slavedom.

The reason I think the competition for women has a lot to do with this state of affairs is that having a job/income is probably at the top of a woman's list of requirements when she is looking for a man. A car is on the list of requirements too.

I'm sure there are many women who like the idea of living in cheap, remote areas, and perhaps growing your own veggies, but you're more likely to pick them up in the city, with a regular job.

I think the cheap living in remote areas can work without having to resort to overly organized communities/cults. A simple "estate", shall we call it, with 500 residences, would be large enough to have its own local store, and run a regular shuttle bus for commuters.
User avatar
Carl G
Posts: 2659
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Slavedom

Post by Carl G »

Now you are talking about social change, which takes some serious engineering, and a willingness of society pretty much as a whole. Not talking about individuals freeing themselves of the system per se. There was a fleeting back to the land movement in the late 60s to mid 70s here in the U.S. Why it failed to catch on is a complex subject, but certainly the increase in consumerism -- leading to the "Me Decade" of the 80s -- had something to do with it, with something of a case to be made for a concerted effort on the part of lawmakers and corporations to avoid losing their consumer base to the self-sufficiency of agriculture, barter, and lowered material desires of the natural lifestyle. This back to the land movement did encompass small farming, communes, and other types of eco-village arrangements.
Good Citizen Carl
User avatar
Ryan Rudolph
Posts: 2490
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:32 am
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Slavedom

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

Kevin,
Not totally independent. For example, our existence is dependent on there being space, and energy supply (food/fuel/oxygen), etc, and there's nothing we can do about that. I would say that the higher masculine impulse is towards not being dependent on illusions.
Of course, we should not be dependent on illusions, but the fact is that we are always dependent on other people, and on the greater community for our survival. And part of the nature of the masculine impulse is to try to reject this or overcome it somehow, but I think it is impossible.

Sue and others talk about jobs as if they are some sort of evil in the world, but they are necessary, you cannot value wisdom, science and technology, and at the same time, reject jobs as slavish. It doesn’t make any sense. Jobs are what create the complex economy around us. We need to accept the nature of jobs, and simply adapt, and toughen up a bit. The belief that jobs are hellish makes them seem much worse than they are, there is an immediate emotional reaction to the idea of the job right away, but if you see that they are a necessary burden on humanity, then you adapt in the best way your personality can.
I disagree here too. Women, generally speaking, have no concept of "great value", or even value at all. Women do not unite with their environment for some kind of intelligent reason, but simply because it is what they passively do. Women unite with their environment in the same way that, say, water does, or air.
Women may not have great values, but they do have values. If you ask many women what they value, they tend to give consistent answers such as, family, children, community, relationships, social unity, serving their husband through duty and responsibility, and keeping a household running smoothly. their values are intuitive, but they are still values. This is a feminine impulse in my opinion, and there are some virtues in it. However, much of the emotional parts need to be abandoned.
So almost everything they earn at work goes towards paying for the privilege of living not too far from work, and paying for a car so they can drive to work. Hence slavedom.
Yes, but you forget that their paycheck also pays for their food, their rent, their clothes, their technology, and thus it keeps them alive. Life requires labor, and thus submission to others. In countries where there are no safety nets like India, if you don’t work, you perish, that is a fact. So if you desire to stay alive, you need to work, and work maybe not all that pleasant, but it is necessary. you forget that in much of the world, people go to bed hungry, and die of easily preventable diseases. Modern civilization is at a much higher order than the rest of the developed world, despite the burden of working a regular job.

Everything is very relative. If you own a home in the city, your taxes are much higher, and there are many more government services that you need to pay for. However, in the more rural areas outside the city, taxes are lower, but you need a vehicle to commute into work, and so there is that extra expense. Renting is probably the cheapest option, but when you grow older, and can no longer work, you have no financial nest egg unless you have invested in stocks or trusts or something. On the other hand, If you have paid into a mortgage, then you can sell your home, and spend your old years living off that income.
The reason I think the competition for women has a lot to do with this state of affairs is that having a job/income is probably at the top of a woman's list of requirements when she is looking for a man. A car is on the list of requirements too.
A man can eliminate some of his burdens by living alone, and taking the bus, but there are still burdens. Living with others (including women) creates pros and cons, but living alone also creates pros and cons. Living with women in a non-romantic setting can actually be quite an asset, and make life much easier, as women have natural talents that compliment a man's natural talents.
User avatar
tek0
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:31 pm

Re: Slavedom

Post by tek0 »

"An enlightened organization could be formed with the sole objective of increasing the land, assets, access to wisdom, science and basic necessities for future generations of geniuses. It would be similar to how a monastery for monks works, but more intelligent, and less isolated from the world. There would need to be direct engagement with the world though.

An elitist agency that serves the future generations of young intellectuals that have potential for enlighenment...hmm, could it ever work"



Last time I checked such things already exist for the world bankers and their underlings.


They seem to have a head start on us and obviously do not like sharing all the benefits of that kind of power.

Conspiracy theory or not they will be the future of humanity from the advances in bio-tech and genetic engineering with the pedigrees that only money can buy.


Enligtened, genius, or otherwise those are the organizations who will always have access to the type of organizational powers that sages would ultimately need.

All the underground vaults loaded with artifacts and knowledge they have access to for being a world class VIP as well as the ability to distance themselves from the ever encroaching masses means they will ultimately reach greater heights of intelligence and technological prowess.

Not to mention the fact that the power to create currency anytime you need it can retain the best scientific, medical, military, and political minds in the world.


Makes the rest of us set to become completely obsolete as human beings anytime now.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8973&hl=en
User avatar
Cory Duchesne
Posts: 2320
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:35 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Slavedom

Post by Cory Duchesne »

Carl G wrote:Now you are talking about social change, which takes some serious engineering, and a willingness of society pretty much as a whole. Not talking about individuals freeing themselves of the system per se. There was a fleeting back to the land movement in the late 60s to mid 70s here in the U.S. Why it failed to catch on is a complex subject
This interview with Bill Metcalf addresses the issue somewhat. Kind of a fascinating read, really.

Here are some bits:
Interviewer: Bill, the aiming for perfection has sometimes been extremely costly and I suppose one can say it’s a hope, a yearning that perennially arises in the human breast. Have you applied yourself to the dangers of that quest?

Bill Metcalf: Oh sure. The world is littered with problems that come out of this. I mean we have a number of groups in Australia today, we have a history in Australia of groups which are very problematic, which their struggling for this perfection ends up leading into what we might call cults. And that’s an ongoing problem. There’s no question of that at all.

There is a danger in following a guru, that’s why most intentional communities today strive for a consensus model of governance and decision-making, because there is something about power corrupting and I see many examples of that, of charismatic leaders who have the most wonderful directions, the most wonderful passion and then become corrupted through power over time.

It’s an in-joke with researchers in the area that the best thing you can have when forming an intentional community, is a strong, dogmatic, charismatic leader. The worst thing you can have to keep an intentional community going is a strong, dogmatic, charismatic leader. And it’s true. You want to form a community quickly and get it off the ground, find yourself a charismatic leader, and then in a year or two, kill him, or you know, arrange something. A redundancy package, let him move on to something else, or her.


-----------------------------

Bill: we talk about people going into communities for two reasons: the in-order-to people, and the because-of people. The because-of people go into it because there’s no other choices, that’s the best choice they’ve got. They think they can’t cope with society, they have mental problems, they’re unemployed, they’re single mothers, whatever it is, some reason they go into it. They’re generally not very good in community.

Far better are the in-order-to people. They’re the people who go into it because they want community. Because they want to develop that openness in themselves, to expand themselves out to share with 30, 40, 50 other people, and they see that as a positive thing. They’re the people who generally make a good success of it in community.

-----------

Bill: yes, it can be very oppressive, and one of the things we find is that few intentional communities, whether they be religious or secular, few of them retain their young people.

Most young people, when they grow up in a community, they want to leave. Now what you often find is that when you interview them ten years later, they report very positively about the experience;

But in general, children love community life, teenagers hate it. Adolescents hate it, typically. It’s restrictive, it’s controlling, everybody knows you, there’s no anonymity, you can’t play up, everybody has some control over you, and it can be quite oppressive, yes.

-----------

Interviewer: Do Utopian or intentional communities, need something parallel to a religious belief? What keeps them together, do they develop unique philosophies?

Bill Metcalf: Well they need something, and in my opinion it doesn’t make an awful lot of difference what you believe in, but you need to have some shared vision, you need to have something that you believe in.

Now environmentalism will suffice, permaculture, biodynamics, whatever, that will give them a binding mechanism, but you need something. Now I spent some time in one group which had a form of fascism as their binding philosophy. Racism and fascism, they were a frightening group, but it still worked. So it’s not religion as such that binds the group, it’s believing in something and sharing a belief in something, because it gives you a fallback position.
User avatar
Ryan Rudolph
Posts: 2490
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:32 am
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Slavedom

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

tek0,
Conspiracy theory or not they will be the future of humanity from the advances in bio-tech and genetic engineering with the pedigrees that only money can buy.

Enligtened, genius, or otherwise those are the organizations who will always have access to the type of organizational powers that sages would ultimately need.

All the underground vaults loaded with artifacts and knowledge they have access to for being a world class VIP as well as the ability to distance themselves from the ever encroaching masses means they will ultimately reach greater heights of intelligence and technological prowess.

Not to mention the fact that the power to create currency anytime you need it can retain the best scientific, medical, military, and political minds in the world.

Makes the rest of us set to become completely obsolete as human beings anytime now.
I don’t think that this is necessarily a bad thing - if political and business elites are the first to engineer super rational/healthy humans, then so be it, they will become obsolete in the process as well.

Moreover, these individuals have done a lot of good in the world as well. For instance: The Rockefellers have funded some of the highest quality universities, tech research institutes, medical facilities, and humanitarian agencies in the world. And all their contributions are open to the public. I bought into the conspiracy hype with the world bankers a bit myself, but the truth is that there will always be those who misuse their power, and those who use it wisely. The reality of a situation is always much more complicated than what these conspiracy theories let on. They tend to totally demonize particular groups as if they are the Satan’s of the world, but they do a lot of good, along with their blunders. And some blunders cause unexpected good in the future that benefits humanity.

Take Bush: One thing I realized is that his war could actually result in a functioning democracy in Iraq down the road, it is quite possible. Look at what happened after the Korean War. If the US didn’t get involved there then Kim Jung Il would control both the North and the South. America’s military action in that conflict resulted in quite a bit of good in the region. South Korea enjoys the freedom of a free market open economy with a functioning democracy, while North Korea still lives in the stone age, suffering with one of the worst regimes and living conditions in the world.

That is how war works. the act itself is irrational, but then again, it is usually an attempt to eliminate an irrational force, so of course it will be irrational. However, the long terms affects can be positive, but sometimes they can make matters even worse. It isn’t as simple as people believe as they say war is always bad. Sometimes the short-term affects of a war are horrific, but the long-term affects are more positive.

In a perfect world without a single irrational individual, a military and a police force would be redundant, but that is not the case.
User avatar
sue hindmarsh
Posts: 1083
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:02 am
Location: Sous Le Soleil

Re: Slavedom

Post by sue hindmarsh »

Kevin wrote:
Man is an animal that needs to build his nest where the females are.
Brings to mind the line in Arthur Miller's Death of a Salesman, when the wife of the salesman, Willy Loman, is kneeling beside his grave informing him that she'd "made the last payment on the house". But of course he wouldn't be there to enjoy living out of debt, as his slaving to pay for the house had sent him to his grave.

Yeah, it hardly seems feasible that man can act so completely insane. But to get and keep a woman - a man's got to do, what a man's got to do. Poor sucker!
User avatar
DHodges
Posts: 1531
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2002 8:20 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Contact:

Re: Slavedom

Post by DHodges »

Kevin Solway wrote:The truth is that most people are willing slaves. We could live somewhere cheap if we want to. I believe that land in the Arizona desert isn't all that expensive, but most people are brainwashed into believing they must live near Starbucks and the Cinema.
Backwoods Home magazine is great a great resource for tips on living outside of mainstream society, living cheaply and independantly.

I think the cheap living in remote areas can work without having to resort to overly organized communities/cults. A simple "estate", shall we call it, with 500 residences, would be large enough to have its own local store, and run a regular shuttle bus for commuters.
Here in Pennsylvania, there is a long tradition of that, but it is associated with certain religious groups - the Amish and the Quakers in particular. (The Amish of course are much more isolated from mainstream society.)

Claire Wolfe (who writes for Backwoods home) has been focusing lately on the idea that in rural communities, people are actually much more dependant on their neighbors than in urban/suburban settings. Where there are less people, relationships tend to be more personal and direct.
Elizabeth Isabelle
Posts: 3771
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:35 am

Re: Slavedom

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

I believe that women, in general, prefer to have someplace to call home, a sense of permanence, and a place to collect and keep stuff.

In general, guys don't like "stuff" and would prefer to travel around a lot. Women like to travel, but they also like to go home. Men like to not be tied to a spot.

With this in mind, it would make more sense that women would predominate in the planned communities, and just plan for a lot of short-term stays by men - that may or may not turn into longer stays.
User avatar
skipair
Posts: 545
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:19 am

Re: Slavedom

Post by skipair »

I live in a tent and have everything I own in my backpack. I have a two hour bus ride into the city to work (I park cars at an airport), and I eat mostly peanutbutter sandwiches and raw broccoli, though I have picked up a minor addiction to starbucks food (for whatever reason), so my expenses I relatively small.

My addiction to women is still alive, though not in the form of the male-provider role I used to play. Even outside of the rat race, by staying in the male-lover role I still get my sex-chem fix and my esteem is still partially dependent on what women think of me. It drives me nuts, and yet part of me still loves it. I don't know whether it's something I need to do and "get out of my system", or to run away from, or to just quit cold turkey while facing it.

Thoughts?
User avatar
Ryan Rudolph
Posts: 2490
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:32 am
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Slavedom

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

Skipair,
My addiction to women is still alive, though not in the form of the male-provider role I used to play. Even outside of the rat race, by staying in the male-lover role I still get my sex-chem fix and my esteem is still partially dependent on what women think of me. It drives me nuts, and yet part of me still loves it. I don't know whether it's something I need to do and "get out of my system", or to run away from, or to just quit cold turkey while facing it.

Thoughts?
Don’t try to do anything, Keep doing what you are caused to do, and perhaps eventually pursuing women will eventually feel boring, tedious, a chore, a waste of energy, and you no longer derive the same emotional satisfaction from it….
samadhi
Posts: 406
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:08 am

Re: Slavedom

Post by samadhi »

Ryan Rudolph wrote:Don’t try to do anything, Keep doing what you are caused to do, and perhaps eventually pursuing women will eventually feel boring, tedious, a chore, a waste of energy, and you no longer derive the same emotional satisfaction from it …
I'm surprised, Ryan has actually given advice I would agree with. Nothing needs changing where there is no motivation to change. Real change is a product of insight, not regimentation.
User avatar
sue hindmarsh
Posts: 1083
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:02 am
Location: Sous Le Soleil

Re: Slavedom

Post by sue hindmarsh »

Skipair,

Yes, as Ryan and Sam say - let nature take its course. I suppose you could encourage nature to help you over your unwanted attachment by remembering that women are no more than children, thereby making your "male-lover role" really that of a pedophile - and your being "dependent on what women think of [you]" the equivalent of you allowing yourself to become just another toy for that child.
Locked