End of Suffering?

[samadhi]

It is very simplistic but incredibly it does work like an off switch, for these two. Why not you try it and see whether it works for you.

This reminds me of a technique called EMDR (eye movement desensitization and reprocessing). It is a way of processing PTSD, anxiety, nightmares, insomnia, abuse or trauma, even that suffered over years or decades, by moving your eyes in a certain way. It seems ridiculous but people get results.

You know, it isn't that I simply want to dismiss what you're saying. I just object to you putting it in terms of the end of suffering. You are talking about a technique that certainly may have benefits, and maybe, like EMDR, a great deal of benefits. By why the need to oversell it? Just tell us what it does for you without claiming to be ending the suffering of mankind. You found something that works. Great. Does it have to be anything more than that?

[maestro]

You know, it isn't that I simply want to dismiss what you're saying. I just object to you putting it in terms of the end of suffering. You are talking about a technique that certainly may have benefits, and maybe, like EMDR, a great deal of benefits. By why the need to oversell it? Just tell us what it does for you without claiming to be ending the suffering of mankind. You found something that works. Great. Does it have to be anything more than that?

It is not some long drawn therapy or denial as you put it, rather it is an off switch for negative imagination and emotion. It is very surprising to me.

But really you seem disinclined to explore anything, whatever does not fit in your preexisting framework you reject quite violently.

The title of this post is a question as Carl correctly noted. The first post is not a solution to all suffering but a surprising (for me) discovery about the mechanism of the body/mind. I wanted others to try it out and report what they see.

Not to mention that if indeed what I conjecture is true (i.e. this switch can be put to off forever with repetition), then it will take away two of the greatest afflictions of the human condition.

[samadhi]

It is not some long drawn therapy or denial as you put it, rather it is an off switch for negative imagination and emotion. It is very surprising to me.

I said it reminded me of EMDR (which isn't a long drawn-out therapy either, read the link). I'm not sure where you got denial from.

But really you seem disinclined to explore anything, whatever does not fit in your preexisting framework you reject quite violently.

I already said, I am fine with your technique. I am questioning your need to oversell it.

The title of this post is a question as Carl correctly noted. The first post is not a solution to all suffering but a surprising (for me) discovery about the mechanism of the body/mind. I wanted others to try it out and report what they see.

Great. So why the title? Why not simply say, "A New Technique"?

Not to mention that if indeed what I conjecture is true (i.e. this switch can be put to off forever with repetition), then it will take away two of the greatest afflictions of the human condition.

Ah, so you actually do believe you can end suffering for mankind by relaxing your face! Lol ... Write a book. You can't be a guru without a book!

[xerox]

...

[samadhi]

Yeah, I think this is all maestro is really saying. I'm not sure how new a technique that is however.

[Carl G]

Carl: You are referring to "don't worry..." which is what you said, not Maestro. Strawman tactic. In fact Maestro's suggestion was to be used specifically when things were not fine, hence the "when you feel any of these two [negative imagination or negative emotion]..."

Like I said, relax your facial muscles, everything's fine, even if it's not. A bromide.

A bromide? No, a strawman, on your part.

Your "Like I said..." says it all. You said, not Maestro. Maestro is talking about something else.

Puh-leeze, that's dishonest. I have nothing against you making it Maestro's problem if you want to. Just don't claim that's what he's saying.

smarm: I am talking about offering "don't worry, be happy" as an end of suffering. At least Peale wasn't that naive.

Carl: No, but it appear you may be, from the faulty analysis and jump to conclusion, on your part.

smarm: You want to gloss over the implications.

No, I wish to study the implications.

I choose to deal with them directly.

No, from what I can see you tend to twist them into other things.

Sorry if that upsets you.

I don't believe you are sorry, I think you are smarmy. And in a fantasy world.

And, why should I be upset about that? A little sad, perhaps.

brokenhead: maestro didn't say it was a panacea, Sam.

smarm: The topic heading says otherwise.

Carl: Wrong, Sam. The topic heading says nothing. It asks a question.

smarm: And supplies the answer.

No, the topic heading simply asks a question.

smarm: If it's just positive thinking, like I said, Norman Vincent Peale along with a few hundred others, beat him to it. Why push positive thinking as the end of suffering? Do you really think that ending suffering comes down to positive thinking?

Carl: Now you are flirting with blockheadedness. Again, doing something proactive is not the same as mere positive thinking.

smarm: Right. Control your facial expression, end suffering. How could I have missed it?

No one said "facial expression." I'm noticing you are really resistant to comprehension. And genuinely hostile, as well. Quite negative despite all the lol's.

[samadhi]

Carl wants to fight! lol ...

comments coming ...

[Carl G]

lol!

I'm off my rocker!

[divine focus]

Relaxing the face helps to move attention away from thought, and in so doing, provides a sense of freedom lacking in the state of "negative imagination." It seems to slow down the sixth chakra, where the common form of thought/vision takes place.

[mikiel]

(I have no "T" on this computer unless I punch it several times, so I challenge the "genius" readers here to read this post without 'T's
(A major pain in he ass to edit in.) (New computer manifesting soon)

So how is "relaxing the face" a new idea, considering that relaxing the whole body in prep for meditation is part of the perrenial wisdom of meditation?
Then of course , relaxing he mind is a bi more subile han he physical, as in my previous pos.
No a new idea here, maesro.
And no reply o my pos, so I gaher here is no ineres in he whole picure of he discipline of mediaion as as he mos universal pah o enlighenmen.

Yes... no "T's" is an absurd text (six hits for two 't's.)
Can you ranscend he glich and respond o he meaning?
(his is a es.)
mikiel

[Dave Toast]

So highlight a 't' from someone else's post and copy it. I'm sure you can work out the rest but you haven't yet so, then just hit Ctrl-V when you want a 't'.

[maestro]

So how is "relaxing the face" a new idea, considering that relaxing the whole body in prep for meditation is part of the perrenial wisdom of meditation?
Then of course , relaxing he mind is a bi more subile han he physical, as in my previous pos.
No a new idea here, maesro.

The idea of relaxation is not new, but the surprising thing for me was how it acts as an off switch. Nobody had ever pointed this out to me before. The effect is instant and thus amazing.

[Dave Toast]

I reckon conceited can be done with a straight face.

[David Quinn]

So highlight a 't' from someone else's post and copy it. I'm sure you can work out the rest but you haven't yet so, then just hit Ctrl-V when you want a 't'.

Hey Dave, he has an IQ of 170, so go easy on him.

-

[Dave Toast]

Dahh, my 155 EQ lets me down again!

[Dave Toast]

New Opeth album out btw David.

[Relo]

In my experimentation in the past few weeks, I have seen that so called mental suffering can be eliminated completely through stopping negative imagination and negative emotions, in a ridiculously simple way.

All you need is self observation and when you feel any of these two just relaxing your facial muscles does the trick of stopping them. Repeating this for a few days significantly weakens the negative imagination and emotions. This works for anything from despair, depression, anxiety, pride etc. Essentially it is impossible to have any negative emotion with the body relaxed.

Thus if you want to get rid of all these troublesome mental states just relax your facial muscles.

Wouldn't this be much more categorized as displeasure instead of suffering (all together)?
Eliminating suffering doesn't sound ideal to me. Through my years of suffering I have learned a lot and gained insight into day to day basis of what is around me. Others say this could have easily been the case due to the maturation of a brain after a certain time period, but through my personal suffering I came to discover, experience, and feel what was really there.

A good refference to suffering could/would be Mother Theresa who was someone through my years who understood how suffering fits in the whole idea of what we learn and how we connect with one another in that way or any other.

[mikiel]

DQ: "Hey Dave, he has an IQ of 170, so go easy on him."

Try to pay attention, David. It's 174 ave. of the big two and "higher" (they said) on the specially calibrated (but not standardized) test given by "the institute" mentioned...
Just for the record.
Hey, check it out... the "t's" are back. It just took a thorough vacuming of the keyboard.
Like Occam's razor, sometimes the simplest solutions are the best.

mikiel

[David Quinn]

New Opeth album out btw David.

I've been listening to it. The best since Blackwater Park, imo. What say you?

-

[Dave Toast]

Best yet for me. Ackerfeldt's taken it on a level or two and the new musicians have slotted right in. In parts, it's more brutal than they've ever done and yet it's quite a bit more proggy/classical on the whole, which suits me.

Going to see them at the, wait for it, Bloodstock festival in August. They're touring Oz soon after that apparently.

[Carl G]

I know a woman who doesn't suffer
Her likes and dislikes make a buffer
What she don't know she doesn't try
Fear not challenged won't make her cry

Her perfect Mom fulfills her wishes,
Her perfect hubby does the dishes.
She picks out paint, he's none the wiser
For the baby girl who is inside her

She's happy in her routine life
She has no cause to stir up strife
Strife doesn't find her, like some folk
Don't fix it if it isn't broke.

-------------

"Blessed is he who has a soul
Blessed is he without one
But woe to him who has it in embryo" ~ G.I. Gurdjieff

[Isaac]

"Blessed is he who has a soul
Blessed is he without one
But woe to him who has it in embryo" ~ G.I. Gurdjieff

To my mind, this sort of idea is a self esteem booster for those who suffer due to their inflated egotism. It really should be no secret that mystics are very similar to manic depressives. Through the means of fanciful superstition and grandiose longings, the mystic experiences super elation and joy, this is followed by intense suffering. This suffering of course leads to maladaptiveness and does damage to the self esteem.

The mystic has to make sense of his suffering. He needs to salvage his self esteem. Thus, he believes it's an indicator that he is 'developing 'a soul' - that he is connecting to a higher world beyond this one.

The truth is probably that he has some chemical imbalance, and is tortured by envy, shame and status anxiety.

Really, I think that's what the craving for immortality often boils down to. The obvious cause is 'fear of death', but a more subtle factor is low self esteem, envy and alienation from others. From this low self esteem, alienation and envy comes the the need to block out the cause of it, which is the fact that you are far from #1 in the hierarchy of daily living. Instead of accepting your humble plight, you deny it and imagine a spiritual hierarchy in the other world, one where you are an elite spiritual person who is 'helping' humanity find 'truth'. Such extremist ideologies are a way for people who are at the bottom of the pyramid to suddenly feel like they are at the top. When you find yourself spiritually at the top, the inferiors in this spiritual hierarchy of course are all of those who have no need of your spirituality, or who have wronged you, or who you envy - in other words, the inferiors are those with strong self esteem, who are well adjusted and thriving in modern day society. Such impoverished are believed to be annihilated at death. Those who have a chance at immortality and salvation are 'the meek' - which just so happened to be those who were poorly adjusted and struggling.

Fantasies of Immortality are just a way of feeling superior - in a hierarchal sense

[Carl G]

Isaac, you're a real piece of work. I'd hate to be in your mind.

[Alex Jacob]

It seems to me he is onto something that is real and he is sincere, but that he is taking shots at it with a shotgun, and blows things to peices. The psychological angle, especially pharmacological suggestions, seems rather grotesque.

It would be interesting for you to consider, Isaac, the writings of the Beats, many of whome were beaten-up people with some pretty severe personal problems, and examine how they discovered life under the curtain of death, and awoke in life, to life. Again, much hinges on the 'monster' of distorted social structure, Moloch.

How do you define 'normalcy'? And those 'who are well adjusted and thriving in modern day society'? Where are they? Who are they?

[maestro]

And those 'who are well adjusted and thriving in modern day society'? Where are they? Who are they?

Warren Buffet, Barack Obama?