Practical steps to enlightenment

[Tomas]

Has anyone here worked with a pendulum on the Seeker's Path?

Pray tell, what version of pendulum? (in other words, this critters come in all sizes, shapes and forms...

ps - In my younger days (1960s), Ouija boards were all the craze.


Tomas


.

[PJ818]

Has anyone here worked with a pendulum on the Seeker's Path?

Pray tell, what version of pendulum? (in other words, this critters come in all sizes, shapes and forms...

ps - In my younger days (1960s), Ouija boards were all the craze.

Tomas
.

"A weight hung from a fixed point in such a way that it can swing freely back and forth."
pj

[Carl G]

I've known a few people who regularly worked with the pendulum, and their pendulums often lied to them.

[brokenhead]

I've known a few people who regularly worked with the pendulum, and their pendulums often lied to them.

Your parents and priests and rabbis lie to you as well.

Now the dousing rod is something else again...

[PJ818]

I've known a few people who regularly worked with the pendulum, and their pendulums often lied to them.

If the only force in operation is the ego, then the 'answers' come from the closed/unstable system.

If one has Spirit and Ego operating, the difference becomes apparent: The Babbling Brook and the Dead Sea. As I continued to examinine reactions and do the work, the responses of Spirit became stronger.

If the heart of the person deeply desires to speak with Spirit - Ego *must* give way. Takes practice and perserverance; however, one will know as Spirit becomes stronger in them the experience of the Babbling Brook. There will be 'personality' and the intensity 'guides'.

I didn't know why one day that I felt the urge to buy a pendulum at a New Age bookstore I frequented. I've always known the occult wasn't the Way and so stayed clear. For whatever reason, I followed the pull. Got it home and was amused by the movement (and decided to get the lottery numbers (wrong <g>). Decided I'd made a stupid purchase and dropped the pendulum in a drawer.

About four months later, I had the experience of Knowing the Spirit was within. After the initial shock, I was constantly questioning how to speak with It in a 'concrete' way instead of waiting for thoughts that 'weren't mine' to appear in my mind from that 'Other thought pool'.

Then one afternoon, the image of the pendulum came into my mind. Hadn't thought about it since the day I'd put it out of sight and mind. I found it and began working with it. Trouble was how to tell the difference between which was answering.

Took me about a year of fumbling along - Trusting that I had been guided to both buy and use this means to help bring Spirit further into Awareness. Spirit became more 'lively' and I could feel the 'pull' when ego broke in and 'took over'. When I stated in my mind that I wanted to speak to Spirit - back came the 'lively'. And then I realized there was some kind of Rule that if I truly wished for Spirit, Ego *had* to abide that desire. Always.

I always remember that Ego has no desire for me to know Truth. When close to something major being disclosed, it will 'snatch'. Once disclosed, however, ego recedes. Vigilence.

The pendulum does *not* become endowed with spritiual properties. I've lost several over the years and used a combination of things in the interim of a 'preferred' pendulum. Preferred in the sense that I'm familiar with the actions (weight & chain distance) and can tell when the Zone has been compromised. When I'm in 'new discovery', I ask if I'm speaking to Spirit before every inquiry. One can be mislead very easily in the beginning - and the danger of that is always present. Ego *cannot* answer in the affirmative if one asks, "Are you Spirit?" and if in one's heart, the true desire is for Spirit. It has been my experience that Ego indicates No, then I request (not demand) to be returned to Spirit.

A couple of days ago, I was standing by the stove watching the water come to a boil before putting in the ten tea bags I'd tied together. Had the tea bags up and elbow resting against my side - and they started moving in a *very* lively way. Had to laugh. All this time, I thought the 'connection' had to be made of metal. In the beginning, I'd learned silver was more spiritually better than gold - and had just never tested outside of that premise.

There is always more to learn - I am not a 'Teacher'. I can share my experience, strength, and hope with others. And I never push Send without the OK (and sometimes there is adding as well as editing beforehand.) Sometimes I don't push Send at all. Sometimes the info is correct, but delivery is from a place of pride and not of Service. Then it's get in the Zone and try again time.

Be careful of the way questions are asked. One instance....I was restless and on edge. Had the thought to move. I asked, "Does this feeling mean you want me to prepare to move again? Yes. "Does this feeling mean you do *not* want me to move?" Yes. Okay. Move or don't move, doesn't matter on this issue - 'wherever I go, the problem will still be there'. The point was, I was being bothered by something I wasn't allowing to come to the surface. I could then see it and peel it. Restlessness taken care of. Above all, keep it simple. Just a suggestion. Spirit's interests lie in relieving spiritual suffering by exposing lies of/attachments to things of Ego - not in providing the answers for Ego's problems such as how to build a bigger/better spaceship.

There were several times after I got the 'hang' of the pendulum that I wanted to tell others. The answer was No. I assumed it would always be No because Spirit would choose to guide others in whatever way was right for them. I don't understand the change in this instance. It wasn't 'my' idea, and I questioned extensively.

So, in keeping with how I've come to Trust the Process, I share my experience on the Path in this regard.

As always, don't *believe* anything I say. Desire to Know, for yourself, if what I say is true. If Spirit is not yet within, plant the seed of the Heart's Desire. The Path will open. Guaranteed. Patience. Awareness is the answer; willingness the key.

Feed Hope.

pj

[mikiel]

Clear enough?You can always resort to calling me a liar if this challenges/provokes your egocentric pride and self esteem.
mikiel

No need, I know you are lying.

Everyone knows.

Do you know anything about epistemology... how we know what we think we know? Your stupidity in this regard is glaring. You sound like a punk with a chip on his shoulder.
More specifically, I am the expert here on what is true in my life. You are not, yet you claim to know that I (a radical truth teller, btw) am lying about an established fact in my life.

So you choose to go the infantile taunting route.
Why not go into true infantile persona with it... like, "Liar, liar, pants on fire!
Then I go with my "Neener, neener..." bit, and, presto!... we have turned this forum into an elementary school play/battle-ground.

Believe whatever you want to protect your foolish pride. I really don't give a rat's ass.
I perfer respectful dialogue, a very rare commodity here as regarding my posts anyway. I have a way of "pushing" almost everyones "buttons," cuz I confront egocentricity wherever I see it... extremely ubiquitous here, for instance.
mikiel

[mikiel]

Perhaps your universal consciousness self is less literate than your exceptionally gifted IQ self?

There is only One Self, omnipresent, the true Identity of all individuals, Dave. Get over it.
Are you stupid enough to believe that there are no dyslexic high geniuses?... Not that I'm dyslexic, but I do "re-arrange" accepted gramatical sequence quite often. You may slap my hand again if it makes you feel superior.
mikiel

[mikiel]

DR: "You are 100% full of unmitigated shit, just in case you needed to know."
You are an excellent shit slinger, Dan. Got anything in the way of substantial dialogue on the subject, or specifics on how you arrived at the above percentage?
I'd even settle for your definition of shit in this context.
Debate score: Nada... as lame as it gets.
And you are a "moderator" of this farce!?
mikiel

[mikiel]

m: "And your superiority over women takes what more sophisticated form exactly?"

DQ: "In the form of not needing her. We regard woman/femininity as an outdated mode of behaviour that has outlived its evolutionary usefulness and seek to eliminate it from the human race altogether. Unless this happens, the chances of wisdom flourishing in the world are virtually nil."

Wow! You actually sound serious! Really? You must have been fed sour milk from a bitter bottle and drop-kicked around frequently! I've counseled a lot of clients over the years who resented their mothers, but never encountered anything quite so radically dysfunctional before.

It has nothing to do with that. It is more to do with recognizing the great pulling power of women and feminine unconsciousness, a pulling power that nearly every human experiences - both women and men, and even homosexuals.

Men, in particular, spend their youth chasing women, doing everything they can to make themselves sexually attractive to women - which, from a spiritual perspective, is wasted effort. Instead of spending their golden years preparing for a life of wisdom, they instead chase the mirage of woman. By the time they are married, have kids and are entrenched in a career, it is too late. Their potential for wisdom has withered away.

I have no argument with the general tendencies you describe above. My objection is to the gross over-generalization in the ridiculous quote about "eliminating woman/femininity from the human race altogether." This is blatently asinine.

I personally know quite a few very wise women and a least three who are fully enlightened. They will remain anonymous, as I will not subject them to the kind of extreme bigotry you are propagating here.

If they are indeed fully-enlightened, then nothing on this forum could hurt them.

You gotta be kidding! Like I would want to "sick" a rabid pit bull onto any beautifully enlightened, peaceful, and loving person... just cuz they could handle a vicious attack in an enlightened way. You are SO full of bullshit!

However, your chivalrous need to protect the helpless darlings is noted.

One such as Gangaji would expose your egocentricity and out-of-control rabid bigotry/chauvinism without breaking a sweat!

-

mikiel

[Dan Rowden]

DR: "You are 100% full of unmitigated shit, just in case you needed to know."
You are an excellent shit slinger, Dan. Got anything in the way of substantial dialogue on the subject, or specifics on how you arrived at the above percentage?
I'd even settle for your definition of shit in this context.
Debate score: Nada... as lame as it gets.
And you are a "moderator" of this farce!?
mikiel

The post I responded to with that much needed observation was utterly ridiculous. Yet, you seem oblivious at to why. I suggest you consider what I said and why I said it.

[Tomas]

Has anyone here worked with a pendulum on the Seeker's Path?

Pray tell, what version of pendulum? (in other words, this critters come in all sizes, shapes and forms...

ps - In my younger days (1960s), Ouija boards were all the craze.

Tomas
.

"A weight hung from a fixed point in such a way that it can swing freely back and forth."
pj

Yes, I'm "fully" cognizant of what a pendulum is..... so... thanks, your later posts on this pendulum business answered my question :-)

PS - The Pit and The Pendulum alway come to mind (when hearing/reading the word). Edgar Allan Poe


Tomas


.

[mikiel]

DR: "You are 100% full of unmitigated shit, just in case you needed to know."
You are an excellent shit slinger, Dan. Got anything in the way of substantial dialogue on the subject, or specifics on how you arrived at the above percentage?
I'd even settle for your definition of shit in this context.
Debate score: Nada... as lame as it gets.
And you are a "moderator" of this farce!?
mikiel

The post I responded to with that much needed observation was utterly ridiculous. Yet, you seem oblivious at to why. I suggest you consider what I said and why I said it.

Oh, goody!... a guessing game. To hell with serious, straight-forward dialogue.
Ok, I'll play.
Here is the post again, which you judge "utterly ridiculous." Again I challenge you to get down to it and make your case. More shit slinging will not facilitate understanding.
---------------------
m: "And your superiority over women takes what more sophisticated form exactly?"

DQ: "In the form of not needing her. We regard woman/femininity as an outdated mode of behaviour that has outlived its evolutionary usefulness and seek to eliminate it from the human race altogether. Unless this happens, the chances of wisdom flourishing in the world are virtually nil."

Wow! You actually sound serious! Really? You must have been fed sour milk from a bitter bottle and drop-kicked around frequently! I've counseled a lot of clients over the years who resented their mothers, but never encountered anything quite so radically dysfunctional before.

I personally know quite a few very wise women and a least three who are fully enlightened. They will remain anonymous, as I will not subject them to the kind of extreme bigotry you are propagating here.
----------------
mikiel

[Dan Rowden]

That you'd expect me to analyse that piece of unmitigated shit only proves my point. Those are words I'd expect from a hormonal 14 year old, not a thinker. You can't possibly believe them to be worthy of a serious dialogue.

[mikiel]

That you'd expect me to analyse that piece of unmitigated shit only proves my point. Those are words I'd expect from a hormonal 14 year old, not a thinker. You can't possibly believe them to be worthy of a serious dialogue.

So you're sticking to shit slinging and name calling. You've got nothing here and you're sticking with it.
Fine. Hmm... How is it again that the human race will propagate without women? And how is your attitude *not* an extreme case of hateful bigotry toward women? Just asking a direct question to help you focus your rage here.

mikiel

[Dan Rowden]

That you'd expect me to analyse that piece of unmitigated shit only proves my point. Those are words I'd expect from a hormonal 14 year old, not a thinker. You can't possibly believe them to be worthy of a serious dialogue.

So you're sticking to shit slinging and name calling. You've got nothing here and you're sticking with it.

You used to counsel people yet you have no apparent ability to see when your own mind and thoughts need to be the focus. That's what I've got and what I'm trying to convey to you.

Fine. Hmm... How is it again that the human race will propagate without women?

How is it that you got that piece of nonsense from what has been said? It's a total non sequitur. Put your moral dick back in your pants until such time as you understand, even remedially, what is actually being said, because to this point, you simply don't.

And how is your attitude *not* an extreme case of hateful bigotry toward women?

What attitude would that be, exactly? Please try and make your answer have some relationship to what has been said, not what your own mind is imagining.

Just asking a direct question to help you focus your rage here.

Amazing. You ascribe rage to me after having typed all that indignant tripe.

Client: I have this issue with the way women are; they seem very irrational to me.
Counselor [slamming fist on table]: You're full of bigoted shit, man!! Get a grip on your rage!!!

[Leyla Shen]

Well, you know, psychotherapists' insanities I can still manage to avoid (luckily*). What I haven't quite mastered yet is how to best the police and come off better for it...

*feeling a bit religiously subdued at the moment--it'll pass!!

[PJ818]

Yes, I'm "fully" cognizant of what a pendulum is..... so... thanks, your later posts on this pendulum business answered my question :-)

PS - The Pit and The Pendulum alway come to mind (when hearing/reading the word). Edgar Allan Poe

Tomas [/quote]

Sorry, Tomas. No wonder you asked! <bg> Not having such other kinds in mind, I scurried to find one that fit what I use. Also, I was procrastinating and you wouldn't have had the question if I'd just come out with it to begin with. ;-)

The comment by Brokenhead about the dousing rod caused me remember a couple of years ago when I was led in that direction. I was wandering around a bosque in Albuquerque (NM-US) with a wood dousing Y - and having not a clue what I was looking for. Called it a 'miss' on my part and hadn't thought of it since. However, today I asked if that was still an open mission, and got a resounding yes - but a certain kind of wood wanted. So guess I'll dig in that sandbox and maybe find a clue to the 'object', as well. Some riddles are tougher than others!

pj

[Dan Rowden]

Well, you know, psychotherapists' insanities I can still manage to avoid (luckily*). What I haven't quite mastered yet is how to best the police and come off better for it...

Stop robbing those damned 711s!

[mikiel]

That you'd expect me to analyse that piece of unmitigated shit only proves my point. Those are words I'd expect from a hormonal 14 year old, not a thinker. You can't possibly believe them to be worthy of a serious dialogue.

So you're sticking to shit slinging and name calling. You've got nothing here and you're sticking with it.

You used to counsel people yet you have no apparent ability to see when your own mind and thoughts need to be the focus. That's what I've got and what I'm trying to convey to you.

I continue to counsel people. You assume that I can not be a spiritual teacher, a land trust, hands on builder and over-seer, a stone mason and a psychotherapist all ongoing as a mutifaceted life.
You have no idea how my life looks, as evident in the stupidity (ignoring all I have shared here already) of your phrase, "You used to counsel people..." Then you go on to judge, from your absolute ignorance about my life, that my "own mind and thoughts need to be the focus."
OK, go ahead and focus on how you see me as totally wrong in your own mind. You are so full of judgement, yet you will not be specific about how you see me as wrong. Just empty inuendo, as above.

Fine. Hmm... How is it again that the human race will propagate without women?

How is it that you got that piece of nonsense from what has been said? It's a total non sequitur. Put your moral dick back in your pants until such time as you understand, even remedially, what is actually being said, because to this point, you simply don't.

((I see that the big dick metaphore is your big stick, here... Sounds like you are still in an insecure adolescent phase... I'm suggesting that we go to a more mature intellectual level of dialogue.)

Listen: Either that asinine statement about how the human race would be better off without women is an exteme form of satire, not yet acknowledged as such, or it remains an asinine statement, disavowing all wisdom in all women. Which is it?
Incidentally, I was a state champion in debate (and a debate judge in college), and you haven't made a legitimate rational point yet! You actually come across as very stupid, all anger without a rational point to stand on.

And how is your attitude *not* an extreme case of hateful bigotry toward women?

What attitude would that be, exactly? Please try and make your answer have some relationship to what has been said, not what your own mind is imagining.

The attitude that men are inherently superior to women. Again, how is it that this is an a-priori truth beyond all need of argument? Focus. Answer the question.

Just asking a direct question to help you focus your rage here.

Amazing. You ascribe rage to me after having typed all that indignant tripe.
You seem to have no awareness at all that name calling and personal insults are not legitimate argument in debate, and not even close to respectful dialogue, the modality in which mutually respectful highly intellegent people converse. Seems beyond your realm of nasty bigoted judgement, steeped in stupidity.

Client: I have this issue with the way women are; they seem very irrational to me.
Counselor [slamming fist on table]: You're full of bigoted shit, man!! Get a grip on your rage!!!

So now you go to melodrama to make some vague point which you can not formulate clearly as a direct statement. You are a sad case of pretending to be a 'genius forum' moderator when you are just a stupid bigoted hick with a hateful attitude (a 'dysfunctional complex') against women.
I am losing interest in this forum.
mikiel

[Tomas]

Well, well.

Looks like the debate of April is shaping up between (mik)iel vs. (dan)iel.

iel vs. iel.

So, when does the Great Debate begin?

I nominate Elizabeth to be the moderator.


Tomas


.

[Dan Rowden]

I am losing interest in this forum.

Thank God for that.

[mikiel]

I am losing interest in this forum.

Thank God for that.

First honest statement I've heard from you yet.
I'm sure it would be a relief, as you are obviously way over your depth here, unable to respond to a single substantive point in my many specific challenges.

IQ is irrelevant, you say. I think you are intimidated by actual true testimony of "high genius" intelligence.
Enlightenment is dependent on a Puritan lifestyle of ascetic renunciation. This is a portrait of stupidity. I can not, surely, be the first to see through this crappola as a basis for a website. Fucking idiots!
mikiel


Gone again for... at least... awhile... or...
mikiel

[Blair]

Clear enough?You can always resort to calling me a liar if this challenges/provokes your egocentric pride and self esteem.
mikiel

No need, I know you are lying.

Everyone knows.

Do you know anything about epistemology... how we know what we think we know? Your stupidity in this regard is glaring. You sound like a punk with a chip on his shoulder.
More specifically, I am the expert here on what is true in my life. You are not, yet you claim to know that I (a radical truth teller, btw) am lying about an established fact in my life.

So you choose to go the infantile taunting route.
Why not go into true infantile persona with it... like, "Liar, liar, pants on fire!
Then I go with my "Neener, neener..." bit, and, presto!... we have turned this forum into an elementary school play/battle-ground.

Believe whatever you want to protect your foolish pride. I really don't give a rat's ass.
I perfer respectful dialogue, a very rare commodity here as regarding my posts anyway. I have a way of "pushing" almost everyones "buttons," cuz I confront egocentricity wherever I see it... extremely ubiquitous here, for instance.
mikiel

Learn, first of all, not to lie, you can only fool those who are lower in IQ. And that won't get you anywhere.

You are not enlightened, or even close. Keep trying and working on it.

[Leyla Shen]

Dan! [walks off mumbling something about priest-penitent privilege and the difference between God's law and man's law...]

[hsandman]

Well, well.

Looks like the debate of April is shaping up between (mik)iel vs. (dan)iel.

iel vs. iel.

So, when does the Great Debate begin?

I nominate Elizabeth to be the moderator.


Tomas


.

I nominate Isabella.

Wow, It's almost lieke democracy!