A Question

[Leyla Shen]

1) you are being mentally stubborn or defiant for the sake of it or because your ego is fighting against being forced to do something you simply don't want to;

If “Relo” doesn’t want to do it, and his “ego” is “fighting” against being forced (superego pressure) to do it because “he” (Id--unconscious drive/s) doesn‘t want to do it, the impetus of the problem is the Id (pleasure/pain principle) in conflict with superego, and the “Relo” we see here IS ego.

[Relo]

It sounds to me like one of two things: 1) you are being mentally stubborn or defiant for the sake of it or because your ego is fighting against being forced to do something you simply don't want to; 2) you don't value the assignment enough to make the effort.

Do you have a tendency for passive aggressive defiance of authority? In other words, finding ways to not do the things you're supposed to do (enforced by authorities you think don't accept or value you)?

It looks to me like he is trying to find some kind of external validation he can feel proud of for what he has already decided is a failure.

Looks to me like he is getting it.

Well I do understand the self esteem boost that we seek when we do go into certain conversations, but I have had many assignenments like these that have just gone by partially bringing my ego down to where I wasn't able to care seeing as it wasn't within my grasp, starting at around the beginning of highschool when a lot of kids seemed "superior" to me based on the simple idea of them being able to score / finish they're assignments and also this connected to my ego. So of course, my self esteem was destroyed and I could be in somewhat of a gaping "draught" at this point and I am trying to build up after I searched for a foundation to begin at from when I did turn "15". The main reason why I am trying to build up is so I can live on life basically, not for personal reasons which are completely asided to my true goal, but you get the point hopefully.

It isn't really all of desperation because when I did find this new foundation it opened up my mind greatly and it feels like a gift that I can understand and put myself in others shoes and know how they act, respond, feel, etc in certain times and situations. I normally try to keep my mind clear with observation of ones around me as my learning, but I am really in no way negative to others I care about or those who are around me, even to the ones who dis-like me for example a new commer to these forums. In some ways I try helping and leading others who have problems that I have either solved or logically thought through or that are building blocks to a growth of my mind of solving problems that appear general to me, exampling such as abuse or neglect.

Right now you can obviously view this as what Steven said a source for something to boost my self-esteem aka be proud of, but of course there are sub divisions to that which I am a lot more keen to open up to then this assumption of a general human who follows general paths on those reasons asided from that. It can't be helped if you are human and you are thinking it through, it just appears naturally along with your emotions that are the key source to these esteem boosters that eventually lead on from that in whatever view you take on the subject.

Thanks for the comments, please post whatever comes to mind, heading to lunch right now.

[Relo]

What I feel that is part of the off balanced ways of school education is the thought of deciding your own decision and understanding the depth of what you are learning. For example, students study many subjects that don't fulfill they're decisions of what they believe in or not, or at least understanding the logic of what they can be learning from anything taken out of context in school, but the majority can say that they just do it to get by, grab the grade, and move on with life.

Can you simply put that blame on to the teachers that taught them? I would definitely say not, but it could have a defect when the foundational curricular planners didn't feel they needed to give a deep reason to why they explain this to us, that they feel we should get the "jist" of what we are learning, understand the basics and move on, but as proof there are a majority of students who don't set off on the right tracks and seem to have wasted all this educational time because of the simple fact that they never understood nor cared of the reasoned logic of how to apply these learnings & understand them with a clear conscious.
These students that don't set off can easily include ones who go through public schooling with fine grades, but they eventually say that they don't care or even regret it.

Of course you can say that the foundationalists could have put the thought of teaching the deep meaning of learning this when they felt it, but either they thought it not necessary or even to the point of not expecting them to understand, something along the lines that you can fill in with a logical / creative result.

The foundationalists could more then likely even included these kids who I speak of right now, that just wanted to move on and grab they're pay. I wouldn't be the one to know where to trace those roots to from way back in time, considering I am not knowledgeable of those roots, I wouldn't mind someone throwing up an example for me to contemplate on either.

Exampling:

A student learns about the Quadratic Equation and does not feel the need to have learned this, yet most students slightly agree or moreover agree to that they do not get the meaning of learning this at that sort of age. Some could agree or disagree that brains of course mature at different rates, but even as it is you could also say that they're brains haven't matured as far as most authorities expect them to, they at least haven't reached the stage to where they can apply this Quadratic Equation into any day to day life situation that can give them insight on understanding what it is that the teachers get at of the Quadratic Equation.

A main reason that came up to me was that they don't believe the teenagers are matured enough and they don't simply want to bother with it because they can base a percentage off of that these teachings of deep logic won't reach them, but eventually as life goes on passing generation after generation, wouldn't you say our minds become more greater then they once where the generation before based on evolution? I still think we can start somewhere, even to the extent of a speck stirred into school curricular.

[hsandman]

To Relo,

Genius forum is forum for escapists from stark reality and painfull truth of the world affairs. You will not find any meaningful answers from this bunch of "naval gazers". To put it plainly, most of the posters on this board are full of shit, including and especially the administrators.

After the worldly matters forum was shut down, most of the intelligent people have left the board, as anything to do with discussing current affairs (on GENIUS forum) are subject to removal/censorship at the whim of the board administrator(s)/moderator(s).
Not that different from school system, realy.

---------
Between 1896 and 1920 a small group of industrialists and financiers subsidized university chairs and researchers with the aim of bending schooling to the service of business and the political state. For leading industrialists such as Andrew Carnegie and John T. Rockefeller, public schooling was engineered to serve a modified command economy and an increasingly layered social order. And how best to do this? By copying the Prussian model of public education.

The new organization, after an initial donation by Rockefeller, Sr. of over $1 million, quickly absorbed the major existing philanthropic groups working in the South - the Slater and Peabody Funds. The General Education Board first assisted Robert Ogden's Southern Education Board, established several years earlier, then broadened its horizons to include other aspects of education.The real motivation behind the General Education Board, however, was perhaps best expressed in the Board's Occasional Letter No. 1, written by Gates:

In our dreams, we have limitless resources and the people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding bands. The present education conventions fade from their minds, and unhampered by tradition, we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive rural folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into philosophers or men of learning, or men of science. We have not to raise up from among them authors, editors, poets or men of letters. We shall not search for embryo great artists, painters, musicians nor lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen, of whom we have an ample supply.
The task we set before ourselves is very simple as well as a very beautiful one, to train these people as we find them to a perfectly ideal life just where they are. So we will organize our children and teach them to do in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way, in the homes, in the shops and on the farm.(Source [ http://www.sntp.net/education/leipzig_connection_6.htm ])

Government schooling came to function as a jobs project where "the primary mission of schools and compulsion laws guaranteed an audience no matter how bad the show" Indeed administrators nationally have grown 110% from 1983 to 1991 and increased spending by the federal government has only aggravated the problem rather than solving it.


1954 Congressional Investigation into Charitable Foundations
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCUu8KC_WfI

Schools are prisons of coercion, where students are regulated by a
life of fragmented knowledge, where they
show obedience to strangers, where the design of education is dependency, obedience, regulation and subordination.

Schools make childhood surreal by:

• enforcing sensory deprivation

• sorting children into rigid categories (read: standardized testing)

• training children to stop at the sound of a buzzer

• keeping children under constant surveillance and depriving
them of private time and space

• assigning numbers to children which feigns the ability to
discriminate personal qualities

• insisting that every moment be filled with low level abstractions

• forbidding children to make their own intellectual discoveries

[Relo]

Thank you sandman for all of the information, I felt Rockefeller was somewhere at the foundation of public school education from a hint of information that lead on to him from my American History class I took last year.

By the way, do you live in the states?