Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Trevor Salyzyn
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Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Post by Trevor Salyzyn »

This thought has been difficult to uproot:

That, given the historical context wherein Buddha (and, in the West, Thales) taught, the term "enlightenment" refers to a new structure of thought that quickly dominated all other thought patterns. That is to say, pre-Buddhist thought was superstitious, mystical, and non-introspective, and was the result of large-scale illiteracy and a lack of anything we could meaningfully call "education". With 3 millenia between the emergence of early enlightened thinkers and now, and given all the changes in education, technology, and social structure, practically everyone meets the requirements of the perfect enlightenment that was so fresh to the minds of early historic thinkers.

I mentioned this idea to Nat, and he said it reminded him of another theory, that of the bicameral mind, where pre-Homeric thinking was described as radically different than the thought that emerged afterward. According to this theory, the human mind was so rudimentary and unconscious that schizophrenic delusions were commonplace -- one half of the brain would issue commands (auditory hallucinations) to the other half, which would immediately obey.

Might "perfect, unexcelled enlightenment" merely be the alternative, an alternative which already has wide-spread purchase throughout the civilized world? Or is enlightenment a further progression beyond this?
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maestro
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Post by maestro »

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:given all the changes in education, technology, and social structure, practically everyone meets the requirements of the perfect enlightenment that was so fresh to the minds of early historic thinkers.
Right. Now practically everybody is enlightened, it might have been a big deal for Buddha with his rudimentary stone age environment. But we with our excellent science and technology and education have now all surpassed him, except maybe for a few uneducated types.
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Nick
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Post by Nick »

Regardless of how "advanced" our civilization is compared to those of the past, I don't think we're anywhere near the point of enlightenment becoming common place. All one needs to do is observe the current state of humanity and make an honest judgement about what drives it and you can clearly see the insanity of it all. If there is to be a day when enlightened folk make up a significant amount of the population, I don't see it happening for another 1,000-2,000 years.
Elizabeth Isabelle
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

I've disliked the term "enlightenment" for quite some time because of all the baggage it carries. It is well true that the majority of us today are enlightened compared to the thought processes that occurred when the majority of the populace thought like what we now call "schizophrenia." Enlightenment might have a dynamic meaning, so that it changes as the general mind-state of the populace advances, to indicate a few who have understanding that most do not have. The 100th monkey phenomenon would necessitate a paradigm shift - like a mental growth spurt for the masses.

(edit - combining posts)
Nick Treklis wrote:If there is to be a day when enlightened folk make up a significant amount of the population, I don't see it happening for another 1,000-2,000 years.
And then that won't be considered enlightenment anymore. A new paradigm shift for a new kind of enlightenment would be in order.
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Nick
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Post by Nick »

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:
Nick Treklis wrote:If there is to be a day when enlightened folk make up a significant amount of the population, I don't see it happening for another 1,000-2,000 years.
And then that won't be considered enlightenment anymore. A new paradigm shift for a new kind of enlightenment would be in order.
I'm speaking about enlightenment in an absolute way, naturally. Therefore Absolute Enlightenment has no kind or type, it is timeless and very singular in it's meaning. Meaning being a conscious realization of Ultimate Reality. Once one has a firm intellectual understanding of this, there can be said to be different levels of enlightenment depending on how much of his knowledge is able to merge with his being and guide his actions.
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Trevor Salyzyn
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Post by Trevor Salyzyn »

Nick, I imagined the Buddha's philosophic discoveries in metaphysics and so on successfully disseminated to the masses, and the only reason this widespread enlightenment is overlooked is because it is so hard to find examples of non-enlightened thinking outside of a psych ward. Am I mistaken?
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Trevor Salyzyn wrote: That is to say, pre-Buddhist thought was superstitious, mystical, and non-introspective, and was the result of large-scale illiteracy and a lack of anything we could meaningfully call "education". With 3 millenia between the emergence of early enlightened thinkers and now, and given all the changes in education, technology, and social structure, practically everyone meets the requirements of the perfect enlightenment that was so fresh to the minds of early historic thinkers.
Ah, no! You gain some while you lose some - the tide of all ages future and past.

"Schizophrenic delusions..." - now I wonder how this age will be put down as in future minds
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Nick
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Post by Nick »

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:Nick, I imagined the Buddha's philosophic discoveries in metaphysics and so on successfully disseminated to the masses, and the only reason this widespread enlightenment is overlooked is because it is so hard to find examples of non-enlightened thinking outside of a psych ward. Am I mistaken?
I see hundreds of examples of unenlightened thinking every day. The only place I ever witness enlightened thinking on a regular basis is this forum.
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skipair
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Post by skipair »

Enlightenment as a thing to speculate about is kind of mental masturbation in my experience. It's like saying, "what are the ramifications of this thing I don't know about." I could be wrong but whenever I've had a specific goal in mind I usually achieve it once I've become unconscious about it to some degree. Instead I think it's good to stay down to earth on the micro level, on the actual practical steps that need to be taken, because when the goal is a perspective, any conceptualizing about that goal - to bring it into existence - is a figment of the imagination and never a forward movement.

Recently for me this means recognizing the ridiculousness of some mental frames I use, and to keep that ridiculousness in mind while I continue along my way. For instance, having a frame that speculates about what another is thinking to get info/ego food about myself. Ridiculous!
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Post by Dave Toast »

Hi Trev, welcome back.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree here, if I'm reading the subtext correctly. The Bicameral mind is an interesting proposition but it's in all likelihood spectacularly wrong. At bottom it's complete speculation, a genius mad proffessor bit of speculation but speculation nonetheless. It's inventive but if it explains the mechanisms behind schizophrenia, I'll eat my cat.
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Post by Steven Coyle »

Trevor,

Hey, welcome back. I'd like to thank your mind (:-) for posting information regarding the bicameral mind. It's been waking me up at night it seems. Through the right lens, it's a great, and vast labryrinth I'm discovering. I was even blessed to find my speculation (regarding dominant right hemisphere symbiosis) to be in accord with Julian Jaynes now seminal work "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind."

Recently I've come across a great philosopher - Plotinus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plotinus

You may enjoy his angles.

(Schrodinger and I just unknowingly crossed paths :-)
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Trevor Salyzyn
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Post by Trevor Salyzyn »

Dave, actually I'm not that interested in schizophrenia (despite, or perhaps because of, spending the last 3 months in a mental hospital). I'm concerned more with enlightenment than brain malfunction. As such, my curiosity is more along whether there's been a transformation of meaning of the term "enlightenment" due to historical causes. The Buddha's audience 3000 years ago would have had nothing more than the education of ancient Indians. Does this change the meaning of enlightenment?
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Trevor Salyzyn
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Post by Trevor Salyzyn »

Nick, what separates enlightened from unenlightened thinking?
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maestro
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Post by maestro »

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:The Buddha's audience 3000 years ago would have had nothing more than the education of ancient Indians. Does this change the meaning of enlightenment?
Is it *gasp* possible that those ancient Indians were saner than the modern westerner?
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Trevor Salyzyn
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Post by Trevor Salyzyn »

maestro, I suppose it's possible that prehistoric Indians were wiser than modern man. The case could be made that modern achievements and education get in the way of enlightenment.

However, this all seems counter-intuitive. How would a more extensive education lead to a less enlightened population?
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maestro
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Post by maestro »

What about the constant indoctrination which leaves no scope for experiencing anything first hand, and no room for authenticity. Those ancients experienced nature and themselves firsthand, and would have been relatively free of the anxiety and alienation gripping modern man. Is our education really education or mere propaganda.
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Dan Rowden
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

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I'm struggling thus far to see the correlation between finite knowledge, in whatever form it manifests, and enlightenment. I'm not convinced that modern life necessary makes us more (or less) amenable to an enlightened vision. We probably have more things, quantitatively, to think about and be distracted by, but in the end each day for each historical group seems full of finite considerations that draw our attention away from the infinite. Modern education exists for the benefit of - and as a result of - modern technological needs; I don't think it makes us incrementally more enlightened, or takes us incrementally closer to being so.
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

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Modern education exists for the benefit of - and as a result of - modern technological needs; I don't think it makes us incrementally more enlightened, or takes us incrementally closer to being so.
It may be an indirect effect. The education itself does not speak to enlightenment of any kind, but does provide the skills required to function in and maintain a world where more people have more time to devote to something besides basic survival. We are gradually pulling ourselves ("gradual" in an historical sense) into modernity. If people can watch 4 hours of TV a day, then they have, arguably, more "leisure" time on their hands than just a few generations ago, when sundown meant lights out. To be awake, conscious, and have time each day to devote to enlightening the mind is still somewhat of a luxury for most people, I would think. But it has to be getting easier, doesn't it? If you have an Internet connection, you really do have the world at your fingertips. What was once strictly esoteric will become meso- and then exoteric as time passes. But this does not remove those basic "circles," so to speak. Even now there are esoteric communities of knowledge & wisdom about which we know next to nothing. Speaking for myself, I should add. My guess is that not everything of spiritual or philosophical importance is available on the Web. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that I am just a humble beginner on the way.
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Trevor Salyzyn
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Post by Trevor Salyzyn »

Dan, so would you say that the enlightenment of the ancients is the exact same beast as the enlightenment that is described today?
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Post by Trevor Salyzyn »

maestro, for all the indoctrination, I leave room for the parts of the system that educate. Elementary school children are exposed to deductive and inductive reasoning in science and math classes; it's hard to believe that this exposure doesn't leave a mark when they deal with spiritual issues. In the time of the Buddha, the basic structure of careful thought was brand new, not commonplace.
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Post by Dan Rowden »

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:Dan, so would you say that the enlightenment of the ancients is the exact same beast as the enlightenment that is described today?
Yes, by definition, if enlightenment it be.
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Post by Trevor Salyzyn »

Thanks, Dan. I was going to ask another question, until I realized that I already knew the answer. I can see where my mistake is: I completely abandoned any careful definition of enlightenment. I guess with that realization, I'm over this hurdle.
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David Quinn
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

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skipair wrote:Enlightenment as a thing to speculate about is kind of mental masturbation in my experience. It's like saying, "what are the ramifications of this thing I don't know about." I could be wrong but whenever I've had a specific goal in mind I usually achieve it once I've become unconscious about it to some degree. Instead I think it's good to stay down to earth on the micro level, on the actual practical steps that need to be taken, because when the goal is a perspective, any conceptualizing about that goal - to bring it into existence - is a figment of the imagination and never a forward movement.

Good to see you're still around.

I've always found it helpful in the past to visualize what it is like to be a Buddha - in other words, imagine what it is like to be completely free, unattached, joyful, unperturbed, simple, clear, insightful, pure and formless. Even if you don't really know what these terms mean in an enlightened sense, visualizing them in your own way can still propel you closer to the goal.

It is a bit like how a seducer might visualize himself as confident, witty, direct with women, etc. By falling into the habit of imagining yourself in that way, it can begin to infiltrate your behaviour. You start to evolve into a seducer.

Recently for me this means recognizing the ridiculousness of some mental frames I use, and to keep that ridiculousness in mind while I continue along my way. For instance, having a frame that speculates about what another is thinking to get info/ego food about myself. Ridiculous!
That needn't be a bad thing. When you're younger and still inexperienced and lack a solid understanding of your own self, it is only natural that you want to find out what others are thinking about you. It is egotistical, yes, but the information you receive can often be valuable. The need for such "ego food" will fade away as you grow older and become wiser, and you realize that you understand yourself better than anyone else does.

-
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Nick
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Post by Nick »

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:Nick, what separates enlightened from unenlightened thinking?
That all depends on what you define enlightenment as.
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Jason
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Re: Enlightenment as paradigm shift

Post by Jason »

David Quinn wrote:I've always found it helpful in the past to visualize what it is like to be a Buddha - in other words, imagine what it is like to be completely free, unattached, joyful, unperturbed, simple, clear, insightful, pure and formless. Even if you don't really know what these terms mean in an enlightened sense, visualizing them in your own way can still propel you closer to the goal.
It must be hard imagining that enlightenment is both utterly devoid of emotions and joyful.
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