Purpose/objective in life (ie universal truth)

[newothesamuri]

This is only an unrefined thought process, and is my first post so bare with me.

I have thought long and hard about life, my purpose, and a possible universal purpose. I keep realizing that any theory or revelation I realize is either to based in perception and outer influence to last into the future and be relevant to everyone, or brings up a huge deal of paradoxes (i.e. "that is not real"-metaphysics, yet that which is not real is NOT REAL which is a relevant thing and therefor real). I have come to a pseudo-conclusion. I do not state this as ultimate truth, but as a human my ultimate purpose is fulfilling my needs, my primary ultimate need is represented by all of the things I do. I do all things to fulfill my needs. Happiness is my ultimate need. I do all things to gain happiness, whether I'm cognitively acknowledging it or not. It may not be a huge revelation that can further the progress of man and it does not involve an ethical code, but it does hold indisputable truth.

[divine focus]

You have no needs. Happiness is your basic state. There's nothing you need to do in order to be. Your ultimate purpose is existence, and it can never be unfullfilled. Your direction or intent is a process that gives life meaning and allows you your natural joy, but when blocked by controlling influences its void is the cause of much discontent. The key to happiness is discovering your continuous self beyond mental activity and living as if its desires are all that matters. Quiet appreciation is instrumental in keeping the vision of this self clear.

[truth_justice]

I have thought long and hard about life, my purpose, and a possible universal purpose.

Good. But walking 1000 steps in the wrong direction is still a 1000 steps in the wrong direction. Thinking long and hard does nothing for you if the beliefs you operate with are false.

I keep realizing that any theory or revelation I realize is either to based in perception... or brings up a huge deal of paradoxes

If you can't find the answer "outside", where else is left to look?

... but as a human my ultimate purpose is fulfilling my needs...

Hardly so! Your basic needs, should be fulfilled... that's called survival. But to say that is the ultimate purpose is ridiculous.

Happiness is my ultimate need.

Really? I would have said air, food, and water. But that is just me.

I do all things to gain happiness, whether I'm cognitively acknowledging it or not.

By chasing happiness you will never have it. It's like chasing a dog... you can chase all you want, but you will never catch it. But if you run the opposite way, something interesting happens... the dog begins to chase you.

And if that is really your reason for doing things, then you need to do much reflecting.

It may not be a huge revelation that can further the progress of man and it does not involve an ethical code, but it does hold indisputable truth.

Indisputable truth? You are joking, right?

[daybrown]

Plato's cave metaphor is better understood as the now obscure, camera obscura, literally, a dark room in which the light of the outside world passes thru the keyhole to project upside down on the opposite wall. We are trying to figure out what the moving shadows mean.

Quite literally; the new partical accellerator is nearly ready, and when it is, the collisions result in certain patterns that they expect will reveal the shape of some of the 6 or 7 other dimensions that are needed to make the quantum math work out. You cant see the dimensions directly, but only infer their structure from the shape of the vectors that result from collisions.

[brokenhead]

Quiet appreciation is instrumental in keeping the vision of this self clear.

This is the only part of your post that rings true. The rest started with "you have no needs" and in no way assured me of that.

[divine focus]

Quiet appreciation is instrumental in keeping the vision of this self clear.

This is the only part of your post that rings true. The rest atarted with "you have no needs" and in no way assured me of that.

Your actual self has no needs. You believe you have needs and so you have needs, but you are not actually what you believe you are. Your perception is not the whole of you. The self you believe you are has its foundation in the continuous self that is not easily recognized. Your perception overlays beliefs on this self and you proceed to rationalize your identity and your beingness within these beliefs. There's nothing wrong with the beliefs; the belief systems are necessary for life physically. This is where appreciation brings objectivity, in the area of beliefs.

It is not necessary to be assured of the actuality that you have no needs in order to recognize the continuous self. That is something that will be revealed in your own experience as you progress. What is necessary is a willingness to go beyond beliefs for a while to acquaint yourself with this foundational self and its potential operation in daily life. It takes a certain focus to go beyond materiality for a while, but it's not concentration. This is the emptiness spoken of in Eastern circles, so-called because the radical change in focus gives the mind nothing to dissect or label. Action happens just because, and it includes the use of logic. There is an evaporation of outer influences on the inner mind; all ideals, such as political correctness or rationality or social sensitivity, are abandoned. They may later be re-aligned with if you are so choosing, but you will be aware of the choosing.

[newothesamuri]

Truth_justice I apologize for writing in a manner in which I was stating "pure truth". My point being is that every action and thought is fueled (in my philosophical insight) by the need for happiness or gratification. Your search for truth is only a search for gratification and closure which subconsciously or not you feel will make you happy. In writing this I only tried to speak as purely natural and basic as possible. Truth and purpose are different for each person. You may think I've taken "1000 steps in the wrong direction" but how do you know I'm wrong. How can a belief be false. Do you know the truth? I know I don't, but at least I took 1000 steps.

[sue hindmarsh]

newothesamuri wrote:

I have thought long and hard about life, my purpose, and a possible universal purpose.

Thinking about what "life" is, is not a popular activity for many people. This fact is something I've found absurd ever since I was a child of ten years old. How does one truly live "a life" if "life" is not understood completely?

I keep realizing that any theory or revelation I realize is either to based in perception and outer influence to last into the future and be relevant to everyone, or brings up a huge deal of paradoxes (i.e. "that is not real"-metaphysics, yet that which is not real is NOT REAL which is a relevant thing and therefor real).

I'd be interested if you'd give a few more details about your thinking above - such as your thoughts on perception.

I have come to a pseudo-conclusion. I do not state this as ultimate truth, but as a human my ultimate purpose is fulfilling my needs, my primary ultimate need is represented by all of the things I do. I do all things to fulfill my needs. Happiness is my ultimate need. I do all things to gain happiness, whether I'm cognitively acknowledging it or not.

Yes, I agree, the desire for happiness is a powerful driving force. The goals that most people assign themselves to reach varying degrees of happiness for varying periods of time, are always extremely petty and shallow minded. If they were really serious about happiness, their goal would be to possess an everlasting, never changing happiness. Such a happiness would require a great deal of suffering before it could be reached, due to having to prune from oneself one's own petty and shallow minded attachments to the quick-fix type happinesses. But in the end, it makes a lot more sense to go for ultimate happiness - instead of wasting your life scratching around looking for scraps of the stuff.

It may not be a huge revelation that can further the progress of man and it does not involve an ethical code, but it does hold indisputable truth.

What plans have you for your "indisputable truth"?

[truth_justice]

Truth_justice I apologize for writing in a manner in which I was stating "pure truth".

No need. You did nothing wrong. This a discussion board and you can claim and discuss whatever you want.

My point being is that every action and thought is fueled (in my philosophical insight) by the need for happiness or gratification.

You can certainly look at it that way. But then how do you explain sacrifices, especially those involving death? For example a mother giving her heart to her son.

Your search for truth is only a search for gratification and closure which subconsciously or not you feel will make you happy.

I do not need to search or find the truth in order to get gratification. I can get gratification from good sex, good food, good drinks, etc.. It's much easier to get gratification that way than searching for the truth.

You may think I've taken "1000 steps in the wrong direction" but how do you know I'm wrong.

When I said,

But walking 1000 steps in the wrong direction is still a 1000 steps in the wrong direction. Thinking long and hard does nothing for you if the beliefs you operate with are false.

I meant it as advice and nothing more. I don't know what steps you might have taken or in what direction. I don't know your belief system.

How can a belief be false.

Okay. Ptolemy believed the Earth was the center of the universe. Now we know that is not the case. Therefore we can say, Ptolemy had a false belief.

Do you know the truth? I know I don't, but at least I took 1000 steps.

I can't say that I do, or that I don't.

[Sapius]

I have thought long and hard about life, my purpose, and a possible universal purpose.

Personal purpose is whatever one deems it to be, but universal “purpose” as in aiming for a goal, there isn’t one, but one could consider it as simply ‘being’, so in other words a perpetual and dynamic strife to simply go on; existence simply IS in my opinion, and could not not be, because that is logically impossible.

Happiness is my ultimate need. I do all things to gain happiness, whether I'm cognitively acknowledging it or not. It may not be a huge revelation that can further the progress of man and it does not involve an ethical code, but it does hold indisputable truth.

In my opinion you are not wrong, but I prefer calling that self-satisfaction rather than ‘happiness’.

[Carl G]

Plato's cave metaphor is better understood as the now obscure, camera obscura, literally, a dark room in which the light of the outside world passes thru the keyhole to project upside down on the opposite wall. We are trying to figure out what the moving shadows mean.

On the Dung Road to Kucha my ancestors had a furniture store where they sold couches and television sets to Ralpha males, on which to watch the History Channel. On the African plains Gibbons became Hominids and started a gang called the Beaters. These were later to clash, as predicted by the Orifice, in Philadelphia.

Quite literally; the new partical accellerator is nearly ready, and when it is, the collisions result in certain patterns that they expect will reveal the shape of some of the 6 or 7 other dimensions that are needed to make the quantum math work out. You cant see the dimensions directly, but only infer their structure from the shape of the vectors that result from collisions.

Robert E. Lee was arguably the greatest general ever, because he did the most with the least. Other greats include Rommel, Crazy Horse, and Hannibal. Standouts among smaller scale operators include Confederate cavalry leader Bedford Forrest who, incredibly, actually raised, equipped, and supplied his entire command throughout the war without government assistance.

[bert]

I have thought long and hard about life, my purpose, and a possible universal purpose.

I do not state this as ultimate truth, but as a human my ultimate purpose is fulfilling my needs, my primary ultimate need is represented by all of the things I do. I do all things to fulfill my needs. Happiness is my ultimate need. I do all things to gain happiness, whether I'm cognitively acknowledging it or not. It may not be a huge revelation that can further the progress of man and it does not involve an ethical code, but it does hold indisputable truth.

an experiment in genius is what the function and purpose of life almost seems to be, at one time a few chosen.our early acceptance of things as they are , as dominant reality, later becomes overshadowed by doubt, for us the conclusion that evil is real, and contra to almightyness. but, lest we forget - there was no evil until man's advent, and thereby a certain madness is seeking a rational explanation of life. things totally without knowledge seem to function perfectly, and are alone beyon,d good and evil.

the acceptance of all things knowledge precludes: the beginning of knowledge is not the discovery of our own ignorance, but the acceptance of all - an equation always equal - becomes its own good and evil.and when born of great ability you also have a profound ignorance of how you accomplish, and learn what explanation you can give.how do you know what you know? ability is an endowment of our past selves.

[bill]

What about Maslow's pyramid of needs. There is no direct mention of 'happiness' or 'universal truth' in his thinking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_h ... y_of_needs

[Cybersmiles]

Maslow considered SELF-ACTUALIZATION the supreme stage of happiness and universal truth.

[Pincho Paxton]

I say that the purpose of life is merely entertainment, and that sort of agrees with the poster. This life is just a passageway to higher entertainment. It's actually part of my religion.

[Carl G]

I agree, and to take it a step further, I see myself an entertainment center. I have built in projection HD TV, DVD player, and state of the art CD sound system. I have a bitchin' collection of music and films so, say, if I am in the mood for some folk rock I can slip in a little Crosby, Stills, and Nash. Or if I am feeling a bit 'western' (like tonight) I can dial up the old Paul Newman flick Hombre. I have talking books, You Tube, and text messaging. It's wild. Entertainment is the essence of Life all right.

[Tomas]

I say that the purpose of life is merely entertainment, and that sort of agrees with the poster. This life is just a passageway to higher entertainment. It's actually part of my religion.

My only peek at this thread and the replies confirmed my suspicions that this is a bullshit thread (not the thread author though) you people haven't seen any hardships come your way. I wish seven years bad luck. At the very least, being mugged or maybe you will cross the street and have a leg broken, maybe your neck and lose your ability to walk normal.

Dream on, you losers!


Tomas (the tank)
VietNam veteran - 1971


.

[Carl G]

Tomas, what a sad reply from you, wishing ill upon people. It confirms my suspicions that you are not altogether right in the head. Hope you are seeking help for your issues.

[Alex Jacob]

The title of the thread, I think, contains both question and answer.

I have been reading an essay by Ronald Hayman called Nietzsche's Voices, one of the better essays I have read on Nietzsche and it seems to prove how relevant still Nietzsche is in the thinking world, in our twilight of modernity. I was looking for a platform to bring up a few ideas, and it seems I will be able to bend this thread to my needs, and with professorial tone satisfy-horrify ole Carl G, who prowls like a hyena 'round these parts...

In my way of thinking there are three main modes of grasping spirituality and religiosity, or at least these are the ones that I have been involved with, and the ones I am still involved with. Since Nietzsche (*genuflections*) seems to propose and demand a complete overhaul of what spirituality and religion means, it seems to me that you have to reduce everything to the most basic so that you can begin to consider the issue.

1) There is a whole order of spirituality and religious (or ritual) procedure that has to do with learning to use the will and the emotions in such a way that one influences, through causation very difficult to grasp, the surrounding world. It is in a very real sense an early science because it is essentially experimental and the only measure of success is if your 'magic' was successful or not. For example one could refer to African magic that migrated with African slaves to the New World becoming Candomble, Santeria and Voodoo. It is (in short) a kind of magical activity that, similar to the pre-Christian European traditions, is based on making contact with the 'presiding spirits' of localities in nature. Springs, hills, rivers, crags, plains, deserts, marshes, lakes---all these places have presiding spirits and, according to this episteme, there is a way to enter into contact or relationship with these forces, and in concert with them attain more or less specific goals in the context of terrestrial life.

2) Another whole religious relationship is the Jewish approach. To link-up with a God or God-Idea that is extra-hisorical, who has a purpose and a design that stands completely distinct from Nature and the natural evolution of peoples and states, and who rules over your terrestrial fate rather cruelly, but who promises to you the resolution of all your tribulations and woes at a future moment, if only you will play by the rules and complete the tasks that you have been assigned, in a purely terrestrial 'heaven', that is to say Palestine, a place located in history and in time and completely within the confines of the known Earth, that is, absolutely no tinge of otherworldliness and no transcendental plane of existence, no metaphor and no allegory. This Jewish ideal, which does in fact animate too the Christian ideal at times, and is connoted in the idea/fact of exodus: a movement in history, on the face of the Earth, from a bad place to a good place, from hell to heaven, is a very powerful idea within religious conception. It can be a very sane and balanced ideal to focu on improving this world, in denying any other world, and in ceaselessly working toward amelioration of this plane of existence (while you simultaneously buy up all the world's better located shopping malls and grin like a proverbial Jew like in one of Oscar Wilde's stories...but that's another story).

3) The transcendental ideal. Now the game gets wonky and much stranger. If, as the transcendentalists propose, we live in an infinite universe of limitless 'worlds' (lokas, planes of existence, 'spheres'), and if as they propose we are located in a more-or-less intermediate world, and if there is such a thing as 'transmigration of souls', and if what we consider as our so-solid existence is really not so solid as we think, and if this sphere in which we find ourselves is really a sort of projection of a dream in which we carry on, forced through a strange trick of consciousness to 'believe' a sort of lie, to be fooled by appearances as it were---if that is the metaphysical base, and if we also find ourselves mired in what they call 'the material entaglement', that is, forced to seek satisfaction through flesh bodies through which we enter through the womb of blood and bone birth but that there are indeed finer bodies we might inhabit that are infinitely more conducive to enjoyment---then we are presented with choices, and life all of a sudden becomes a far more complex game than the first 'magical' attitude described above (which may or may not have an underlying cosmological metaphysic), and more labyrinthine than the Jewish conception or fate.

The whole 'psychology' of the transcendental vision of reality is based in the horrified understanding that we inhabit transitory bodies in which intense suffering is our basic fate. There is no way to avoid intense suffering and the have a mortal body. All the roads of life here end in intense suffering, and anyway all achievements disappear and are wiped away, sooner or later. And yet, here we are, and cruelly we are forced to 'make the best of a bad bargain'.

So, this transcendentalist view of reality proposes a few different things. One is that we can become unconscious, dull, dimwitted, and forgetful of our 'true nature' and merely try to make the best of what is available to us. Another is that we remain aware of the deeply problematic essential nature of this 'material existence' and choose to behave in ways (according to prescribed ethics and also employing magical, religious and ritual activities) that enable us to move out of the more hellish parts of the existant world (certain localities in Philly for example, and certainly East Los Angeles, not to mention the unreal hell-realm of La Olla ('The Cauldron', a neighborhood of crackheads and other living dead and murderers right here in the city of Cali, Colombia), and through focus of will succeed in moving (horizontally) to or toward the more pleasant areas and possibilities within terrestrial life, but still within this plane of existence. The problem with this, according to the transcendental viewpoint, is that at any moment misfortune can befall and all our hopes are dashed to peices, or we incur some 'karma' which complicates our trajectory, mires us in an extensive karmic situation from which we can't escape for a whole life or perhaps many lives...

The other alternative in this strange transcendental view of terrestrial life, is to pack up and leave, or in any case to always keep a little suitcase intelligently prepared for one's departure. Or, to minimize one's entanglements in the earth-sphere through conscious effort and planning, to begin to plan to cease to exist, to say No to life, to shrink, to diminish, to begin to become invisible, to become more silent, to sit and watch it all happen but refrain to take part, to take one tiny step out of history and toward 'eternity'---all that wacky stuff that so horrified Nietzsche and with such ideals he was not able to reconcile his excitable consciousness.

[There is also the 'QRS' approach, which entails getting diagnosed with some dread mental malady and going on (Australian) welfare; reading Nietzsche Kirkegaard some bizarre Taoist and Weininger all at the same time and conflating it all into one circus-amalgam; wandering in the desert with the Kangaroo peoples for a spell; giving up on all human relationships and living on .03 cents a day; starting a website and inviting every loon in the cosmos to participate; and writing books all about it....]

[But that is of course another topic...]

;-)

[Tomas]

Tomas, what a sad reply from you, wishing ill upon people. It confirms my suspicions that you are not altogether right in the head. Hope you are seeking help for your issues.

My suspicions are now on orange alert* following yours and Alex's replies.

This will be further upgraded following the end of Valentines Day.

May any chocolates you receive for Valentines Day[Brown] cause you to gain seven pounds.

ps- Have you hugged your favorite guru's cardboard cutout today?

pps- Will edit my previous comment to include HV'sD!

* - based on DHS alerts - stayed tuned and remain vigilant


Tomas

7

.

[Tomas]

The title of the thread, I think, contains both question and answer.

I have been reading an essay by Ronald Hayman called Nietzsche's Voices, one of the better essays I have read on Nietzsche and it seems to prove how relevant still Nietzsche is in the thinking world, in our twilight of modernity. I was looking for a platform to bring up a few ideas, and it seems I will be able to bend this thread to my needs, and with professorial tone satisfy-horrify ole Carl G, who prowls like a hyena 'round these parts...

In my way of thinking there are three main modes of grasping spirituality and religiosity, or at least these are the ones that I have been involved with, and the ones I am still involved with. Since Nietzsche (*genuflections*) seems to propose and demand a complete overhaul of what spirituality and religion means, it seems to me that you have to reduce everything to the most basic so that you can begin to consider the issue.

1) There is a whole order of spirituality and religious (or ritual) procedure that has to do with learning to use the will and the emotions in such a way that one influences, through causation very difficult to grasp, the surrounding world. It is in a very real sense an early science because it is essentially experimental and the only measure of success is if your 'magic' was successful or not. For example one could refer to African magic that migrated with African slaves to the New World becoming Candomble, Santeria and Voodoo. It is (in short) a kind of magical activity that, similar to the pre-Christian European traditions, is based on making contact with the 'presiding spirits' of localities in nature. Springs, hills, rivers, crags, plains, deserts, marshes, lakes---all these places have presiding spirits and, according to this episteme, there is a way to enter into contact or relationship with these forces, and in concert with them attain more or less specific goals in the context of terrestrial life.

2) Another whole religious relationship is the Jewish approach. To link-up with a God or God-Idea that is extra-hisorical, who has a purpose and a design that stands completely distinct from Nature and the natural evolution of peoples and states, and who rules over your terrestrial fate rather cruelly, but who promises to you the resolution of all your tribulations and woes at a future moment, if only you will play by the rules and complete the tasks that you have been assigned, in a purely terrestrial 'heaven', that is to say Palestine, a place located in history and in time and completely within the confines of the known Earth, that is, absolutely no tinge of otherworldliness and no transcendental plane of existence, no metaphor and no allegory. This Jewish ideal, which does in fact animate too the Christian ideal at times, and is connoted in the idea/fact of exodus: a movement in history, on the face of the Earth, from a bad place to a good place, from hell to heaven, is a very powerful idea within religious conception. It can be a very sane and balanced ideal to focu on improving this world, in denying any other world, and in ceaselessly working toward amelioration of this plane of existence (while you simultaneously buy up all the world's better located shopping malls and grin like a proverbial Jew like in one of Oscar Wilde's stories...but that's another story).

3) The transcendental ideal. Now the game gets wonky and much stranger. If, as the transcendentalists propose, we live in an infinite universe of limitless 'worlds' (lokas, planes of existence, 'spheres'), and if as they propose we are located in a more-or-less intermediate world, and if there is such a thing as 'transmigration of souls', and if what we consider as our so-solid existence is really not so solid as we think, and if this sphere in which we find ourselves is really a sort of projection of a dream in which we carry on, forced through a strange trick of consciousness to 'believe' a sort of lie, to be fooled by appearances as it were---if that is the metaphysical base, and if we also find ourselves mired in what they call 'the material entaglement', that is, forced to seek satisfaction through flesh bodies through which we enter through the womb of blood and bone birth but that there are indeed finer bodies we might inhabit that are infinitely more conducive to enjoyment---then we are presented with choices, and life all of a sudden becomes a far more complex game than the first 'magical' attitude described above (which may or may not have an underlying cosmological metaphysic), and more labyrinthine than the Jewish conception or fate.

The whole 'psychology' of the transcendental vision of reality is based in the horrified understanding that we inhabit transitory bodies in which intense suffering is our basic fate. There is no way to avoid intense suffering and the have a mortal body. All the roads of life here end in intense suffering, and anyway all achievements disappear and are wiped away, sooner or later. And yet, here we are, and cruelly we are forced to 'make the best of a bad bargain'.

So, this transcendentalist view of reality proposes a few different things. One is that we can become unconscious, dull, dimwitted, and forgetful of our 'true nature' and merely try to make the best of what is available to us. Another is that we remain aware of the deeply problematic essential nature of this 'material existence' and choose to behave in ways (according to prescribed ethics and also employing magical, religious and ritual activities) that enable us to move out of the more hellish parts of the existant world (certain localities in Philly for example, and certainly East Los Angeles, not to mention the unreal hell-realm of La Olla ('The Cauldron', a neighborhood of crackheads and other living dead and murderers right here in the city of Cali, Colombia), and through focus of will succeed in moving (horizontally) to or toward the more pleasant areas and possibilities within terrestrial life, but still within this plane of existence. The problem with this, according to the transcendental viewpoint, is that at any moment misfortune can befall and all our hopes are dashed to peices, or we incur some 'karma' which complicates our trajectory, mires us in an extensive karmic situation from which we can't escape for a whole life or perhaps many lives...

The other alternative in this strange transcendental view of terrestrial life, is to pack up and leave, or in any case to always keep a little suitcase intelligently prepared for one's departure. Or, to minimize one's entanglements in the earth-sphere through conscious effort and planning, to begin to plan to cease to exist, to say No to life, to shrink, to diminish, to begin to become invisible, to become more silent, to sit and watch it all happen but refrain to take part, to take one tiny step out of history and toward 'eternity'---all that wacky stuff that so horrified Nietzsche and with such ideals he was not able to reconcile his excitable consciousness.

[There is also the 'QRS' approach, which entails getting diagnosed with some dread mental malady and going on (Australian) welfare; reading Nietzsche Kirkegaard some bizarre Taoist and Weininger all at the same time and conflating it all into one circus-amalgam; wandering in the desert with the Kangaroo peoples for a spell; giving up on all human relationships and living on .03 cents a day; starting a website and inviting every loon in the cosmos to participate; and writing books all about it....]

[But that is of course another topic...]

;-)

The first good (well thought out) reply in this thread.


Tomas

7

.

[Carl G]

There is a whole order of spirituality and religious (or ritual) procedure that has to do with learning to use the will and the emotions in such a way that one influences, through causation very difficult to grasp, the surrounding world. It is in a very real sense an early science because it is essentially experimental and the only measure of success is if your 'magic' was successful or not.

Well put, but does it go far enough?

For example one could refer to African magic that migrated with African slaves to the New World becoming Candomble, Santeria and Voodoo. It is (in short) a kind of magical activity that, similar to the pre-Christian European traditions, is based on making contact with the 'presiding spirits' of localities in nature. Springs, hills, rivers, crags, plains, deserts, marshes, lakes---all these places have presiding spirits and, according to this episteme, there is a way to enter into contact or relationship with these forces, and in concert with them attain more or less specific goals in the context of terrestrial life.

Ah. No, it doesn't go far enough. You speak of learning to use the will and emotions, and then relegate this knowledge to primitive devices. Not to say there isn't value in these spiritual relationships you mention. But making magic involves more that simply hooking up with natural forces. It involves self-transformation. You start to imply this, then appear to sell the process short.

2) Another whole religious relationship is the Jewish approach. To link-up with a God or God-Idea that is extra-hisorical, who has a purpose and a design that stands completely distinct from Nature and the natural evolution of peoples and states, and who rules over your terrestrial fate rather cruelly, but who promises to you the resolution of all your tribulations and woes at a future moment, if only you will play by the rules and complete the tasks that you have been assigned, in a purely terrestrial 'heaven', that is to say Palestine, a place located in history and in time and completely within the confines of the known Earth, that is, absolutely no tinge of otherworldliness and no transcendental plane of existence, no metaphor and no allegory. This Jewish ideal, which does in fact animate too the Christian ideal at times, and is connoted in the idea/fact of exodus: a movement in history, on the face of the Earth, from a bad place to a good place, from hell to heaven, is a very powerful idea within religious conception. It can be a very sane and balanced ideal to focu on improving this world, in denying any other world, and in ceaselessly working toward amelioration of this plane of existence (while you simultaneously buy up all the world's better located shopping malls and grin like a proverbial Jew like in one of Oscar Wilde's stories...but that's another story).

Ugh. And beyond material culture and ordinary religion, this has what to do with deeper purpose of life?

3) The transcendental ideal. Now the game gets wonky and much stranger. If, as the transcendentalists propose, we live in an infinite universe of limitless 'worlds' (lokas, planes of existence, 'spheres'), and if as they propose we are located in a more-or-less intermediate world, and if there is such a thing as 'transmigration of souls', and if what we consider as our so-solid existence is really not so solid as we think, and if this sphere in which we find ourselves is really a sort of projection of a dream in which we carry on, forced through a strange trick of consciousness to 'believe' a sort of lie, to be fooled by appearances as it were---if that is the metaphysical base, and if we also find ourselves mired in what they call 'the material entaglement', that is, forced to seek satisfaction through flesh bodies through which we enter through the womb of blood and bone birth but that there are indeed finer bodies we might inhabit that are infinitely more conducive to enjoyment---then we are presented with choices, and life all of a sudden becomes a far more complex game than the first 'magical' attitude described above (which may or may not have an underlying cosmological metaphysic), and more labyrinthine than the Jewish conception or fate.

All good, and agree with the point that the "magical attitude" does not necessarily not include all of this. In fact, it properly does, and if so, we are speaking of the essential framework of shamanism. Perhaps I should say high shamanism, whereas simple shamanism may occur on the more animal level.

The whole 'psychology' of the transcendental vision of reality is based in the horrified understanding that we inhabit transitory bodies in which intense suffering is our basic fate. There is no way to avoid intense suffering and the have a mortal body. All the roads of life here end in intense suffering, and anyway all achievements disappear and are wiped away, sooner or later. And yet, here we are, and cruelly we are forced to 'make the best of a bad bargain'.

This is more poetry than truthful. There have been people who live and died, for example, without intense suffering. And who's to say all achievements disappear (notwithstanding your qualifier "eventually.")? Your transcendental ideal (3) would seem to defend the idea that you can and do 'take it with you' when you die. Transferrence, not death, building over time and space rather than winking out after a momentarily shining in the sun, and all that sort of thing.

So, this transcendentalist view of reality proposes a few different things. One is that we can become unconscious, dull, dimwitted, and forgetful of our 'true nature' and merely try to make the best of what is available to us. Another is that we remain aware of the deeply problematic essential nature of this 'material existence' and choose to behave in ways (according to prescribed ethics and also employing magical, religious and ritual activities) that enable us to move out of the more hellish parts of the existant world (certain localities in Philly for example, and certainly East Los Angeles, not to mention the unreal hell-realm of La Olla ('The Cauldron', a neighborhood of crackheads and other living dead and murderers right here in the city of Cali, Colombia), and through focus of will succeed in moving (horizontally) to or toward the more pleasant areas and possibilities within terrestrial life, but still within this plane of existence.

Yes.

The problem with this, according to the transcendental viewpoint, is that at any moment misfortune can befall and all our hopes are dashed to peices, or we incur some 'karma' which complicates our trajectory, mires us in an extensive karmic situation from which we can't escape for a whole life or perhaps many lives...

Huh? The problems of hopes dashed and karma incurred are precisely the ones designed to be dealt with through the transcendental view, are they not? They are not fatal flaws in the system. Do you imply there are problem-free paths open to humans?

The other alternative in this strange transcendental view of terrestrial life, is to pack up and leave, or in any case to always keep a little suitcase intelligently prepared for one's departure. Or, to minimize one's entanglements in the earth-sphere through conscious effort and planning, to begin to plan to cease to exist, to say No to life, to shrink, to diminish, to begin to become invisible, to become more silent, to sit and watch it all happen but refrain to take part, to take one tiny step out of history and toward 'eternity'---all that wacky stuff that so horrified Nietzsche and with such ideals he was not able to reconcile his excitable consciousness.

Here again you appear to mix things. Preparation to leave the Earth Plane, and practicing detachment from materiality in no way necessarily involve shrinking from life.

[Cory Duchesne]

Preparation to leave the Earth Plane, and practicing detachment from materiality in no way necessarily involve shrinking from life.

Leaving The earth plane? I guess that must mean you're heading to somewhere new. What do you call it?

[Carl G]

Me, personally? I call it Goombah.

[Cory Duchesne]

Kidding aside, you're serious about immortality, aren't you?

Earlier you said:

I agree, and to take it a step further, I see myself an entertainment center. I have built in projection HD TV, DVD player, and state of the art CD sound system. I have a bitchin' collection of music and films so, say, if I am in the mood for some folk rock I can slip in a little Crosby, Stills, and Nash. Or if I am feeling a bit 'western' (like tonight) I can dial up the old Paul Newman flick Hombre. I have talking books, You Tube, and text messaging. It's wild. Entertainment is the essence of Life all right.

So what relationship does all of those material goods of yours have with the 'next world'? What role does the entertainment of this world have with the next?