Original Thinking

[TheSourceCode]

...

[Dan Rowden]

I said that same thing only last week.

[This thread needs to morph into something meaningful soon to avoid deletion]

[TheSourceCode]

Say what?

Oh...I see. Sometimes I can't help but think that we're all mind-readers. Mind-readers? Heh, it's amazing how two definitions connected to the same term or word can be interpreted in a whole variety of different ways. Different meanings, whether intentional or not. A person can be thinking something totally different then the other and yet honestly come up with the same clump of words.

But that's just it! It's all me. Tell me, how far can one go before they lose their way back?

Original thinking, what is it? I'm not sure if it's real, especially when it's all predetermined anyways. It's a derivative born from the other stuff that's already there.

Whatever.

How does one develop into a highly original thinker? (I need to ask questions, because the answers help stimulate my thought and imagination...So please.)

[Dan Rowden]

Say what?

Oh...I see. Sometimes I can't help but think that we're all mind-readers. Mind-readers? Heh, it's amazing how two definitions connected to the same term or word can be interpreted in a whole variety of different ways. Different meanings, whether intentional or not. A person can be thinking something totally different then the other and yet honestly come up with the same clump of words.

Good point. I hope Laird read that paragraph.

Original thinking, what is it? I'm not sure if it's real, especially when it's all predetermined anyways. It's a derivative born from the other stuff that's already there.

Thinking is always original, really. Even if you're thinking about something someone has previously said or thought, you still have to do the work yourself and arrive at your own understanding. Originality is a red herring, basically. Thinking needs to be truthful, that's all.

How does one develop into a highly original thinker?

Why do you care about being one? Sounds like an ego trip to me.

[TheSourceCode]

Dan,

Thinking is always original, really. Even if you're thinking about something someone has previously said or thought, you still have to do the work yourself and arrive at your own understanding. Originality is a red herring, basically. Thinking needs to be truthful, that's all.

I was thinking that either it's all original or none of it is, I couldn't make up my mind. Take these symbols for instance: 1+2 give me 3, is three considered original? Maybe, it is since 1 and 2 are also original... Where do I go from here? Should I even be contemplating this since there's only "I" and everything about me is essentially original, so there's no question. So, it's all about the way in which we explain ourselves that makes "others" view us as original, intelligent, etc. That's interesting. Thanks.

[Dan Rowden]

"Original thought" is more relevant to non-philosophical endeavours like math and science. New models can be produced all the time there. But in philosophy it's about starting from the ground up. All philosophical thinking is sort of old and new at the same time. It's a bit like climbing a mountain - you can't say you've climbed it just because other people did. And when you do, the achievement to you personally is not lessened because others have done it.

[TheSourceCode]

Why do you care about being one? Sounds like an ego trip to me.

You would know...wouldn't you, Dan. No, I'd rather become one (even though I am one already) to influence others into understanding the truth.

I guess the question should be: how do I learn to better explain my thoughts so that they may be better understood by others and appreciated for their originality and mind-expanding potential?

"Genius is a life time of good grub!"

"Original thought" is more relevant to non-philosophical endeavours like math and science. New models can be produced all the time there. But in philosophy it's about starting from the ground up. All philosophical thinking is sort of old and new at the same time. It's a bit like climbing a mountain - you can't say you've climbed it just because other people did. And when you do, the achievement to you personally is not lessened because others have done it.

Yeah, it's the thinking that I need to improve upon and that can be accomplished by starting where...?

[Dan Rowden]

Why do you care about being one? Sounds like an ego trip to me.

You would know...wouldn't you, Dan.

Damn straight.

No, I'd rather become one (even though I am one already) to influence others into understanding the truth.

Well, ok, but you're getting a little ahead of yourself there. That's a perfectly reasonable ultimate goal but for now you need to think only of your self.

I guess the question should be: how do I learn to better explain my thoughts so that they may be better understood by others and appreciated for their originality and mind-expanding potential?

Well, that's just a matter of practice. But again, you're getting ahead of yourself a little. You need to improve your ability to clarify ideas in your own mind first. Clarity of communication will follow from that.

"Original thought" is more relevant to non-philosophical endeavours like math and science. New models can be produced all the time there. But in philosophy it's about starting from the ground up. All philosophical thinking is sort of old and new at the same time. It's a bit like climbing a mountain - you can't say you've climbed it just because other people did. And when you do, the achievement to you personally is not lessened because others have done it.

Yeah, it's the thinking that I need to improve upon and that can be accomplished by starting where...?

Getting better control of your mind. When that's no longer an exigency, clarity of thinking can start to flow more consistently.

[TheSourceCode]

It's really confusing sometimes, because half the time I don't know whether the other person missed one of my points or whether I missed one of theirs. It's an unshakeable feeling that there's just so much I don't understand, while others do ...I wish it stuck with me, then may, just maybe I'd be motivated enough to really help myself. Dan... you, David and Kevin all studied volumes of different types of philosophy, right? I'm sure that helped you guys and will help me if I do the same.

[TheSourceCode]

What if the only reason I don't have full control of my mind is partly because I've gone beyond my comfort zone, got lost, and adapted in order to survive the current states of mind?

[Dan Rowden]

If such study helps you keep your mind focussed then it can only be a good thing.

[TheSourceCode]

Sometimes. I'm not very consistent, sometimes the extra study overloads my mind and what's weird, is that I sometimes sorta wake-up and notice I've been out of it... What do you make of it? That maybe a good thing in the long run. Hey, maybe I'm a late blooming genius and my mind is making up for the lack of academic motivation?? Am I getting ahead of myself again? Maybe, I'm exceeding the expectations you've unconsciously set for me in your mind? Hmmm??

[TheSourceCode]

Do you have any idea?

Edit: I'm sure nothing is seriously wrong. I'm sure it'll get better and better once I get into a daily study regime. Focus can be strengthened, of course.

[Dan Rowden]

Try to understand one thing at a time, two at the most. Filling your head with multiple problems only means that none of them end up being resolved. If you read something that puzzles you, put the book away and go for a walk and think about it.

[TheSourceCode]

It's all connected and it's endless. One problem when resolved leads to another and the other to another just like a puzzle: 1 four-sided square piece, leads to 4 others and those lead too...12 more and so on and so forth. Another thing is memory. Not everything is remembered, so this is were some sort of shortcut comes in, such as: mental pictures and weird symbols. So... when you say philosophy is building from the ground up...How did you do it?

[Jamesh]

It's all connected and it's endless. One problem when resolved leads to another and the other to another just like a puzzle: 1 four-sided square piece, leads to 4 others and those lead too...12 more and so on and so forth.

You can tie all these together with absolute truths. Truths that apply to all things. Learn how to generalise.

Another thing is memory. Not everything is remembered, so this is were some sort of shortcut comes in, such as: mental pictures and weird symbols.

In some ways superior memory is more about it's usefulness in impressing others. Learn about the ego and examine how your ego makes you think and react in certain ways.

You don't really need to be able to recall a lot of detail, but nonetheless it is useful empirically in assisting your understanding of reality.

So... when you say philosophy is building from the ground up...How did you do it?

There is no formula. Just a lot of reading and thinking. You may wish to peruse the PDF Letters Between Enemies on Kevins site linked above. It aint all a smooth road in the early days, I would even say at times it is a little bit like one's young teen days, but without the irrationality. Truth is not necessarily something that is easy to accomodate, but the longer term reward of ego-peacefulness seem to make it worthwhile.

[Ataraxia]

You can tie all these together with absolute truths. Truths that apply to all things. Learn how to generalise.
.

Thats really excellent advise in my view.I often give that to other people who are having trouble focussing.And often say it to myself,when I am having trouble.

It's information overload these days.I sometimes wonder how my son(currently 8 yo) is going to cope.

It seems to me that the most important skill in the 21st century will be an ability to sort the "wheat from the chaff" efficiently.

[TheSourceCode]

Something that's stopping me from fully immersing myself in this material is fear (ego also comes in - it seems that fear is the egos tool to sustain itself).

I failed when it came to understanding this material for what it is. It's my fault, but I didn't always see it in that way. QRS, is either a Godsend or the opposite... It's really difficult to make sense of it all. one thing that stands is that it really does make sense depending on ones capacity to understand it. I for one am not ready yet to try and make sense of it "all", I'll take your advice, Dan, though it will be very difficult for me especially in the beginning.

Most of the world is wrong in the way they think and so on. That's scary and it's also confusing. I've got a long road.

Q-I love ego-trips, their like a drug... I've realized that they are hurting and limitng my understanding. However, without them I get depressed. Attachment, right? Another thing is, what if I don't have what it takes. I know, I know, but what if I don't: No ego to help me, no nothing...Do you know what I mean. It seems that I'd be worse off...

I'm sorry, that's the ego trying to protect itself I suppose. Tho, someone did tell me that QRS thought that I didn't have what it takes...

I'll try, and try - until I get it! A this point there doesn't seem to be any way around it!

A few key thoughts of encouragement before I start my studying later on today. (I'm dead serious about all this time!)

[TheSourceCode]

Jamesh,

You can tie all these together with absolute truths. Truths that apply to all things. Learn how to generalize.

Generalize? How do you mean?

Isn't the feminine mind the master of this?

Learn about the ego and examine how your ego makes you think and react in certain ways.

It's a piece of shit, which deceives me. The problem is, how do I get rid of it?

There is no formula. Just a lot of reading and thinking. You may wish to peruse the PDF Letters Between Enemies on Kevins site linked above. It aint all a smooth road in the early days, I would even say at times it is a little bit like one's young teen days, but without the irrationality. Truth is not necessarily something that is easy to accomodate, but the longer term reward of ego-peacefulness seem to make it worthwhile.

I'm having major problems with getting rid of attachments. I'm not too sure how to do this. When I do notice an advance in my thinking, the ego kicks in and I sorta take a break... No wonder everything goes back to normal. It's disheartening to constantly make improvement and then lose them. It seems I'm always starting from square one and making a full circle back to the starting point without knowing it! Realization kicks in and then it's ugh...again.

Ataraxia,

It's information overload these days.I sometimes wonder how my son(currently 8 yo) is going to cope.

Information overload. Isn't it a problem that we can't "take away" any of that information. It's all stored and once there's too much it becomes a problem. On a computer we can delete these useless bits and bytes and/or (however it works) download some new over them, is this how it can work on a human. Is this what getting rid of attachments is essentially about: Taking out the garbage to make room for the car?

It makes sense to overload ones brain with worthwhile info...Doesn't it?

It seems to me that the most important skill in the 21st century will be an ability to sort the "wheat from the chaff" efficiently.

It all gets mixed-in anyways and it influences one whether they like it or not. I think you're right, to get around this is important.

[Dan Rowden]

I'm having major problems with getting rid of attachments. I'm not too sure how to do this.

Stop thinking about this altogether! You don't "get rid" of attachments in the way people think. They simply fade naturally in response to understanding. Just think about the nature of ego and self and, yes, even the nature of attachments, but forget this crap about getting rid of attachments. Without an understanding of ego and self etc, why would you even suppose it to be an appropriate thing to do? It's horse-cart stuff again.

I suggest you go to Genius News and do a search there for "attachment" and read whatever material comes up. You may find it useful.

[average]

Yep, getting rid of attachments isn't a means towards self-knowledge, but in fact, it is a consequence of it.

Listen to Dan. ^

[ZenMuadDib]

You can tie all these together with absolute truths. Truths that apply to all things. Learn how to generalise.
.

Thats really excellent advise in my view.I often give that to other people who are having trouble focussing.And often say it to myself,when I am having trouble.

It's information overload these days.I sometimes wonder how my son(currently 8 yo) is going to cope.

It seems to me that the most important skill in the 21st century will be an ability to sort the "wheat from the chaff" efficiently.

Generalization, in my view, is terrible advice. Each thing or problem or whatever has its own truth that is separate and the same as others, but the way that it is separate is just as important. Generalizing leads to false conclusions in my book.

[Dan Rowden]

Generalizing leads to false conclusions in my book.

Do mean that universally or just generally?

[ZenMuadDib]

Generalizing leads to false conclusions in my book.

Do mean that universally or just generally?

What is the difference between universal and general? They are defined using the same words...They mean the same thing.

[Dan Rowden]

Not to me. Universal means without exception to me, whereas general means mostly but with exceptions. A generalizations always allows for exceptions to exist. Such as it's a generalization that women have a uterus. If you said women universally have a uterus it wouldn't sound quite right because quite a few don't.