sexual aggression

[Dan Rowden]

Hey, this thread is important. We're discussing whether getting rid of the ego helps a person not suffer humiliation.

Hah! I think you may be the first person to recognise that's where I've been heading with my most recent posts.

[Kevin Solway]

His "no" means "no" only up to the point he says "yes".

There are many traditional households around the world where the man's word is the final word. If he says "No", then that's the end of the story, and the woman would never dare raise the issue again. Such households are diminishing, but they do still exist.

A woman does mean "No" at the time she says it. The problem is that two seconds later she might give a different answer. I'm sure that sometimes a rapist thinks that a woman will change her mind by the end of the act.

It is common for a woman's "No" to mean, "No for now, but try again later because you haven't yet convinced me". And she will get very upset if the man takes her "No" as a final answer, and makes no further efforts.

It's all a bit of a headache really.

[Shahrazad]

Hah! I think you may be the first person to recognise that's where I've been heading with my most recent posts.

Oh, I've known for a long time where you were headed. But in all fairness, I think Laird knew too.

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[Shahrazad]

Dan,

That's bull, Sher and you know it. The woman will press the point till he gives in. His "no" means "no" only up to the point he says "yes".

If she decides to press the matter, then at least she's not performing the action before it was authorized. Persuasion should always be used instead of coercion.

Now, if you find her insistence irritating, that's another matter.

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[Unidian]

Nick,

Skip, he's a lost cause. I can hear the whip cracking over his head right now. I actually feel bad for the guy, even though he will never know why. Unfortunately, anything you tell him about women goes in one ear and out the other.

You guys have fun with your little fantasies. I guess imagining that men who disagree with you are "whipped" is another psychologically satisfying narrative, kind of like how you guys pretend to be sages and wise men and so forth. It's all fairly harmless most of the time, although a round of lobotomies wouldn't be a bad idea.

Carry on, but be sure to put away your toys when you're done.

[Sapius]

Kevin wrote;

A woman does mean "No" at the time she says it. The problem is that two seconds later she might give a different answer.

The hope that she might change her mind once overpowered sounds quite encouraging.

I'm sure that sometimes a rapist thinks that a woman will change her mind by the end of the act.

Now that her real psychology has been revealed, it should be quite logical for most men to at least try.

It is common for a woman's "No" to mean, "No for now, but try again later because you haven't yet convinced me".

So one has to convince her that rape is not such a horrible thing after all, since she might ultimately enjoy it although she says “no” for now, just that she is not aware of it, being unconscious that she is, of course.

And she will get very upset if the man takes her "No" as a final answer, and makes no further efforts.

Got it! Thanks!

It's all a bit of a headache really.

Not really. What’s a minor headache compared to such lofty revelations?!

BTW, one thing that bothers me is the delusion and unconsciousness of the authorities, who have yet to understand the real psychology behind a woman saying “no” and actually meaning “yes”, which they are unaware of. Any ideas as to how we might educate them?

[Kevin Solway]

the real psychology behind a woman saying “no” and actually meaning “yes”

I explained clearly that when a woman says "No", she actually means "No".

That is, if you want to try for a "Yes" then you need to try again later, so long as the repeated attempts are really encouraged by the woman.

In my view, it is the responsibility of a man to help a woman to think for herself and to make her own decisions, rather than to force or pressure her in any way at all.

[Carl G]

Women are like dogs and should be trained. Men also need education on the signs women give and their particular language. For instance, when they say "no" they actually mean "try me again later." Men need to sell women on men's wares, namely wanton sex in which the man is in control, and a man's right to leave the toilet seat up. If a woman -- or girly-man, for that matter -- can be taught to lessen their ego -- their sense of self and their damned emotional investment in the matter -- they will lessen the pain of being controlled by another person, and might even be able to enjoy the experience. I think I've got it.

What an great, interesting, sad thread.

[Sapius]

I explained clearly that when a woman says "No", she actually means "No".

Yeah, I did notice, but surely you are not serious. You actually consider her to be conscious enough to actually mean it? Rest of the time you seem to suggest otherwise.

[Kevin Solway]

For instance, when they say "no" they actually mean "try me again later."

Sometimes they mean "Try me again later, after you've done more to impress me you lazy sod", and sometimes they mean "No, not ever, regardless of what you do.". There are many signals you can pick up on to distinguish between these different meanings . . . apparently. :-)

[PyroSylph]

Shahrazad wrote:

Skipair, you're right about some things, wrong on others, and you do generalize too much and often reach the wrong conclusions. You are on the right track though, which is more than can be said of other misogynists I've heard here.

I'm just curious what things skip has said that you agree with. And what he has said that makes you think he is on the right track?

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

There are circumstances in which a woman's "no" is real, yet others when it is not - when it is a prelude to a maybe and possibly a "yes".

...

It would work if women didn't punish men for not knowing when and where it doesn't apply.

All women should not be punished for the poor behavior of some women.

link
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[Shahrazad]

Pyro,

I'm just curious what things skip has said that you agree with.

OK, let’s take this:

what you may not realize is that when these females tell you about their sorrows, they are LOVING the drama. And when they leave you and go out with their girlfriends right after they are chipper, giggling, and acting as if NOTHING bad had ever happened to them their whole lives. And after that they go directly back to the seducer she "hates" so much, fucks his brains out, tells him she has never loved anyone more in her entire life, and has unbelievable respect for him.

This is an exaggeration, like all of what Skip says, and it is meant in a condescending way by someone who does not appreciate women. Parts of it are false, and it can lead the reader to make a wrong conclusion. However, once you get past his misogyny, there is some truth in it. Women love drama, and when they talk about their sorrows, they do feel better afterwards.

And what he has said that makes you think he is on the right track?

Why might he be on the right track? Because if he ever decides to think of women like persons worthy of love and respect (yeah, I know, don’t hold your breath), he may just come to realize a woman’s need for nervous tension, and that it does not mean she’s stupid or less conscious than a man. Let us not forget that men are addicted to sex, which is not exactly an intellectual feature. Men and women are different, and dumb people assume that this difference means that one of the groups is better than the other. I don't buy this idea either from the feminists or the misogynists.

Back to a woman’s need for nervous tension. This need is strong enough that many women would prefer to have negative emotions than no emotions at all. A woman is not often happy with a guy she perceives as boring.

to a seducer who knows the mating dance sequence, it does not matter if the girl is low or high drama. She may indeed attract a particular type of guy who is oblivious to seduction principles, but a seducer needs only to make slight alterations on the theme to lay her easily. It doesn't matter what the psychological makeup of a girl is, they all LOVE seducers. Shocking, but true.

I agree that women are attracted to seducers.

The reason I can forgive Skip for his condescending tone is that I know he is coming from a position of pain. I can recognize this because I’ve been there.

It takes a mature man to understand the psychology of a woman. Dan is a lot closer to understanding it than Skip. But Skip is much closer than Rhett or Nick, for example.

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[skipair]

In my view, it is the responsibility of a man to help a woman to think for herself and to make her own decisions, rather than to force or pressure her in any way at all.

Yes. What most don't realize is they need to be in a position of power in order to do this. At the very least, this means leaving no possibility of being controled. Not an easy feat.

[clyde]

Back to a woman’s need for nervous tension. This need is strong enough that many women would prefer to have negative emotions than no emotions at all. A woman is not often happy with a guy she perceives as boring.

Here, after all that has been written in this thread, is one partial truth. I would state it this way to come close to a more complete truth about the nature of human beings, male and female: We seek change.

[Shahrazad]

Clyde, to that I will add that the reason we seek change is that it makes us feel alive.

[Shahrazad]

Pyro,

There is an important correction I need to make. What I call nervous tension is not at all a female thing; men seek it just as much. What is different is the place we seek it: women search in relationships, and men in sports. This we learn at an early age.

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[skipair]

Shahrazad,

it is meant in a condescending way by someone who does not appreciate women.

I will say I try to be direct and honest. I can only sugarcoat this subject so much before it loses all value. Everyone is free to project what they want.

However, once you get past his misogyny

I don't consider myself a misogynist. I trust women to be exactly what they are, as I do with men. On my best days, I am completely impartial.

Because if he ever decides to think of women like persons worthy of love and respect

A person is worthy of love and respect so long as they give love and respect.

Let us not forget that men are addicted to sex, which is not exactly an intellectual feature.

I would say women are at least twice as addicted to sex as men. Women also have excellent skill at controling their extreme horniness, which is partially why they are so good at controlling men. Don't let anyone fool you, woman are perverted creatures. Pretty awesome if you're into that.

Back to a woman’s need for nervous tension. This need is strong enough that many women would prefer to have negative emotions than no emotions at all. A woman is not often happy with a guy she perceives as boring.

Agreed. Even with myself, at times I'll notice I'm experiencing a negative whirlwind of sorts, and I'll catch myself and say, "Stop, is it possible I'm actually enjoying this? I kinda am, aren't I." And then some clarity reappears.

[Imadrongo]

Clyde, to that I will add that the reason we seek change is that it makes us feel alive.

Obviously. Clyde is right. If only women hate boring lifestyles I must be a woman. :-S

[Shahrazad]

I would say women are at least twice as addicted to sex as men. Women also have excellent skill at controling their extreme horniness, which is partially why they are so good at controlling men. Don't let anyone fool you, woman are perverted creatures. Pretty awesome if you're into that.

Skip, maybe Pyro was right about you: you are as thick as a brick wall. I regret having given you any credit. The things you got right must have been a total accident.

[skipair]

you are as thick as a brick wall

Thicker.

[Imadrongo]

A brick wall in itself doesn't have a set thickness, since bricks can be different thicknesses and brick walls can have different amounts of layers of and arrangements of the bricks.

[David Quinn]

Skip wrote:

I would say women are at least twice as addicted to sex as men.

I would have said a thousand times more addicted, although in a sense such a comparison can't be made. It is like comparing scuba-divers with fish in the sea. The scuba-diver plunges into the water occasionally, while fish never leave the sea.

Fish are so comfortable in the sea they look as though they never have to give it a single thought. Scuba-divers, on the other hand, have to think and make plans about entering the sea.

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[Shahrazad]

OK, you're as thick as a cement wall.

And don't anybody get smart about cement walls. I know what they're like. In my neck of the woods all buildings worth a dime are made of cement.

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[Shahrazad]

David,

I would have said a thousand times more addicted, although in a sense such a comparison can't be made.

You got it all wrong. Sex is intercourse, and is not the same thing as romance. Women are addicted to love and/or romance, but not to sex. Haven't you ever met a real woman?

Geez.