History and its relations with: "Waste of Time".

[RalphPL]

Why study History? Wouldn't you say, studying the PRESENT and FUTURE, is worth a hell of a lot more?

For instance:

If one focuses of ones' past, one is said to: "live in the past". This occurs with depressed people. They constantly analyze their past memories and look for patterns, so that they may improve, the present and future. This, is like "a dog chasing its tail". It's a feeble task and counterproductive, in some cases. Isn't it better, to focus on improving ones' present and future, by living "in" the present. By, working towards something, instead of looking back and living in limbo, purgatory...Whatever.

I value scientists, a whole lot more then historians, because one produces. While, the other, reads...

I know there are many problems with, this. Nevertheless, I'd like to hear your point about all this.

Btw, what truly earth-changing "things" have Historians discovered? How have they changed the world?

With science and philosophy, there's a whole "schoolyard" full of contributions.

[The schoolyard comment: me poking fun at myself, for not thinking about this topic for too long.]

...Call it a, "stroke" of Genius.

[Imadrongo]

It is important to understand history to understand the present. There are also many illusions to historical people, events, actions, literature, etc used or to use that you won't be open to if you don't have a good grounding in history.

[RalphPL]

It is important to understand history to understand the present.

I've even said this myself, in the past. Depression's, a tricky thing to break away from.

There are also many illusions to historical people, events, actions, literature, etc used or to use that you won't be open to if you don't have a good grounding in history.

Like what?

[Faust]

history is definitely important to know and record accurately. Without which our political systems would be in more chaos. Knowing exactly HOW Israel was created and implemented is important for the present, knowing exactly how the federal reserve was made is also very important for the present. If we let criminals change history they can conquer the world, as Orwell's quote said: "who controls the present, controls the past, who controls the past, controls the future."

[RalphPL]

history is definitely important to know and record accurately. Without which our political systems would be in more chaos. Knowing exactly HOW Israel was created and implemented is important for the present, knowing exactly how the federal reserve was made is also very important for the present.

Why is history important to know and record accurately? (I don't think you proved your point very well. Our enemies, also have the same info at their disposal, do they not?)

If we let criminals change history they can conquer the world.

How?

"who controls the present, controls the past, who controls the past, controls the future."

I've heard of this. The problem with quotes, is that someone else thought of them. Verbal MSG.

....................................................................................................................................................

Your explanation has some merit, but it doesn't come close in proving, whether you are correct, or not.

..............................................................................................

What kind of valuable contributions, have historians discovered?

Thanks, for taking the time to answer.

[ChochemV2]

Proof? What constitutes proof in your eyes?

How about this: You can't possibly ignore the past because we can't make predictions on the future without taking the past into consideration. There is no way to guess what our actions will result in without studying the effects of similar situations in the past.

There is no way to completely "live in the moment" because each person is the sum of their experiences and will react based on these experiences so even if you aren't consciously considering your own history it's having an effect on you.

[RalphPL]

Stick with the context. Hint: reread. Start from my first post and only read my posts, please.

How about this: You can't possibly ignore the past because we can't make predictions on the future without taking the past into consideration. There is no way to guess what our actions will result in without studying the effects of similar situations in the past.

Well put. Now reread my posts, please.

There is no way to completely "live in the moment" because each person is the sum of their experiences and will react based on these experiences so even if you aren't consciously considering your own history it's having an effect on you.

I agree, but there's a difference, between:

1. Constantly pondering my past.
2. Being proactive and working towards a better future.

[Would it kill you to consider my point. Humor me.]

Tell me about some valuable discoveries, made by Historians. In other words: Proof?

[ChochemV2]

I don't see a conflict with the context and my post. Historians are necessary for recording, clarifying, and revising history as new information becomes available. We need to understand our history and are inextricably tied to it (both personally and globally) as I pointed out in my OP.

Why study History? Wouldn't you say, studying the PRESENT and FUTURE, is worth a hell of a lot more?

Why study chemisty? Wouldn't you say physics and astronomy are worth a hell of a lot more? You don't simply cut off one avenue of understanding because you perceive greater importance to others. If one wants to completely abandon something then it should be shown to be useless and not simply less useful. Since you have yet to prove understanding and study of history is useless then I don't feel compelled to prove it is useful...

If one focuses of ones' past, one is said to: "live in the past". This occurs with depressed people. They constantly analyze their past memories and look for patterns, so that they may improve, the present and future. This, is like "a dog chasing its tail". It's a feeble task and counterproductive, in some cases. Isn't it better, to focus on improving ones' present and future, by living "in" the present. By, working towards something, instead of looking back and living in limbo, purgatory...Whatever.

This barely makes any sense. So, if I'm understanding correctly, living in the past is a possible trait of being depressed and in it's extreme form, constant analysis, someone can be stuck in a loop and never move forward because they are constantly second guessing themselves. Of course, a regular person would use their past as a guide and make guesses on how their actions will change their future based on how past decisions have lead to their current situation. So in my scenario the past isn't a crutch but understanding of it is an enormous help.

I value scientists, a whole lot more then historians, because one produces. While, the other, reads...

That's an extremely narrow view of the work historians do. They sift through vast amounts of information, try to weed out bias, and put together a picture of our past. Without them we would have no understanding of our history and even your vaunted scientist would be harmed. Modern chemists may create medicines and plastics but their understanding is built upon the entire history of chemistry from alchemy to biochemistry. Without someone recording and keeping the information from our ancestors we wouldn't have been able to build upon past knowledge to the point where we can reap the benefits of modern science.

Btw, what truly earth-changing "things" have Historians discovered? How have they changed the world?

What qualifies as "earth-changing"? Are you looking for historians which discovered lost cities through their research? I really don't see the point of this question but maybe my understanding of what it is to be a historian doesn't require sensationalism...

With science and philosophy, there's a whole "schoolyard" full of contributions.

How thorough would your understanding of Greek philosophy have been without historians? How advanced would our understanding of chemistry have been if we retained no understanding of alchemy? How could we have developed sophisticated physics if Newton's contributions had disappeared into the mist of the past?

[RalphPL]

Yeah I know you're right. I guess I didn't get my point across. Even if I did, you'd ultimately be right, so sorry for posting this. I need to go and learn. Bye.

[Faust]

yeah you do need to learn, idiot. And if you live in the US read up on the history of the Federal Reserve for a good start.

[ChochemV2]

The Federal Reserve? Why do I feel more 'Jewish Banker's Conspiracy' nonsense coming on?

Either way Ralph, I'm only 21 myself and I've only been actively trying to improve my mind for a year or two (and I doubt there are many here who would see me as much improved) but you can't measure yourself by what other people think of you and what they are capable of. My analytical abilities have grown quite a bit in such a short period of time even if my general knowledge of philosophy, history, and just about anything else haven't budged. I'm fairly sure I'll never be quite capable of involvement in many of the discussions on a board like this but forcing yourself to defend a position is the best practice for improvement.

[Faust]

Jewish banking conspiracy isn't nonsense at all, it's totally fucking true. Of course an Ashkenazi Jew like you, who has no REAL ties to Ancient Tribal Judaism at all, since you're a lousy Khazarian convert, which renders you a "pseudo-retarded-phony-cheating Jew" type of thing. Of course you aren't going to admit to the crimes of Ashkenazi Zionist bankers, ie ROTHSCHILDS, in which there is AMPLE evidence for their criminality, they control the Bank of England and the Federal Reserve, these are PRIVATE companies profitting from producing national currencies, it's not "nonsense" you belligerant jackass, just blatantly denying it, what a typical "Jew" does.

[ChochemV2]

Jewish banking conspiracy isn't nonsense at all, it's totally fucking true.

Totally? Like, wow, I didn't realize the conspiracy was true.

Of course an Ashkenazi Jew like you, who has no REAL ties to Ancient Tribal Judaism at all, since you're a lousy Khazarian convert, which renders you a "pseudo-retarded-phony-cheating Jew" type of thing.

That's not even a real sentence and I fail to see what why it matters what people I'm descended from. My mother is Jewish, her parents are Jewish, their parents were Jewish, so even though I don't practice I still recognize the culture I which I was raised. I'm sorry if that somehow offends your concept of what it should mean to be Jewish but that really doesn't matter to me.

Of course you aren't going to admit to the crimes of Ashkenazi Zionist bankers, ie ROTHSCHILDS, in which there is AMPLE evidence for their criminality, they control the Bank of England and the Federal Reserve, these are PRIVATE companies profitting from producing national currencies, it's not "nonsense" you belligerant jackass, just blatantly denying it, what a typical "Jew" does.

I can't admit something when I have no idea what you're talking about. Are we talking about real crimes or simply donating money to Zionist groups (which you probably see as a crime). How exactly do they control the Bank of England and the Federal Reserve? Do members of the Rothschild family simply work for them, own them, or do they use their Jew gold to mesmerize the owners so they can bend them to their will?

[Dan Rowden]

Faust,

Could you possibly make your points without being continually personally abusive to posters? That's more of a suggestion than a request, by the way. You've slipped into that mode a little too much lately.

[Faust]

That's not even a real sentence and I fail to see what why it matters what people I'm descended from. My mother is Jewish, her parents are Jewish, their parents were Jewish, so even though I don't practice I still recognize the culture I which I was raised. I'm sorry if that somehow offends your concept of what it should mean to be Jewish but that really doesn't matter to me.

oh pleaseeeee, here's it is again, typical Jewish attitude in circumventing conflicting evidence. You fail to see why it matters what people you're descended from, hmmm, THEN, you TURN RIGHT AROUND, and talk about your parents!!!

Fact is, Judaism is only a religion, that is all. Second, your parents aren't authentic Jews, that is, they AREN'T from the tribes of Israel, which makes you a pseudo-Jew. Third, Jews descended from Jacob aren't any different than other Semites. Which makes "Jewish identity" a non-existent entity. You recognize WHAT exactly about your culture in which you were raised??? Judaism is NOTHING BUT A RELIGION, it HAS NO CULTURE, JUST RELIGION. So you CANNOT be a Jew if you are an atheist!!!! There's NOTHING to recognize where you came from!!! Your parents being Jewish, doesn't mean ANYTHING, because they're Khazars!!!

Are we talking about real crimes or simply donating money to Zionist groups (which you probably see as a crime). How exactly do they control the Bank of England and the Federal Reserve? Do members of the Rothschild family simply work for them, own them, or do they use their Jew gold to mesmerize the owners so they can bend them to their will?

first, donating to Zionsit groups IS a crime because Zionism and Israel is a crime. Second, Rothschilds DO own those banks. Those banks work like this: they print money out of nothing, then SELL it to the government WITH INTEREST, thus profitting from an entire nation's currency, in which should be produced by the government, interest free.

timeline of the rothschild family: http://iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordS ... schild.htm

[ChochemV2]

oh pleaseeeee, here's it is again, typical Jewish attitude in circumventing conflicting evidence. You fail to see why it matters what people you're descended from, hmmm, THEN, you TURN RIGHT AROUND, and talk about your parents!!!

What I failed to see was what your post had to do with the topic under discussion and further more, how my lineage related to anything under discussion. As a gift I then went on to explain myself in the context of your insulting barrage of lunacy because I really had nothing better to do and the best support for sanity is letting you continue to rant and rave.

Fact is, Judaism is only a religion, that is all. Second, your parents aren't authentic Jews, that is, they AREN'T from the tribes of Israel, which makes you a pseudo-Jew. Third, Jews descended from Jacob aren't any different than other Semites. Which makes "Jewish identity" a non-existent entity. You recognize WHAT exactly about your culture in which you were raised??? Judaism is NOTHING BUT A RELIGION, it HAS NO CULTURE, JUST RELIGION. So you CANNOT be a Jew if you are an atheist!!!! There's NOTHING to recognize where you came from!!! Your parents being Jewish, doesn't mean ANYTHING, because they're Khazars!!!

Everything has an impact on the culture in which you grow up. The area where I live is heavily Irish Catholic and that association has a profound effect on the culture in which I grew up. People live in a certain way based on where they live, what they believe in, what type of government they live under, the kind of job they have, and a million other things and every single one contributes to the culture surrounding that person. The word "culture" doesn't exist separately from religion no matter how many times you make the assertion it does.

first, donating to Zionsit groups IS a crime because Zionism and Israel is a crime. Second, Rothschilds DO own those banks. Those banks work like this: they print money out of nothing, then SELL it to the government WITH INTEREST, thus profitting from an entire nation's currency, in which should be produced by the government, interest free.

Zionism is the name of a set of beliefs people hold so it can't be "a crime" and Israel is a country so it can't be "a crime". Crimes could have been committed by Zionists and Israel's creation could be criminal in nature but they are not "crimes". Believing the Jewish people should have a homeland is not a crime any more than believing people should be able to vote is a crime... If someone thinks they should be allowed to kill people with an icepick their belief isn't a crime, however, killing someone with an icepick would be.

[Leyla Shen]

Hello, Chochem:

Crimes could have been committed by Zionists and Israel's creation could be criminal in nature but they are not "crimes".

Yes, crimes committed by Zionists and by Israel would be crimes, and that would make Zionists and Israel criminal.

[Faust]

Hahahha!! OH my god, Leyla, I'm surprised that you didn't show any anger at the IDIOTIC and ILLOGICAL and CONTRADICTORY blatant statement he just made. It really boggles my mind to read such a thing that so blatantly nullifies itself.

Everything has an impact on the culture in which you grow up. The area where I live is heavily Irish Catholic and that association has a profound effect on the culture in which I grew up. People live in a certain way based on where they live, what they believe in, what type of government they live under, the kind of job they have, and a million other things and every single one contributes to the culture surrounding that person. The word "culture" doesn't exist separately from religion no matter how many times you make the assertion it does.

this has NOTHING to do with the fact that Jewish identity is extremely bastardized due to the fact that it is nothing but a religion, which makes such terms as "Jewish atheist" incorrect. And that Ashkenazi Jews originating from Khazars aren't "real" Jews descended from the ancient Tribes. The ancient Tribes aren't a race either, as they are Semites like Arabs.

Believing the Jewish people should have a homeland is not a crime any more than believing people should be able to vote is a crime

there's no such thing as a Jewish "people" because it's not a race, just a religion. It's like saying the KKK should have a homeland because they're a "people."

[ChochemV2]

Yes, crimes committed by Zionists and by Israel would be crimes, and that would make Zionists and Israel criminal.

That's fine, I was just being a grammar ass to Faust. Zionism isn't "a crime" but it could be criminal and Israel isn't "a crime" but it could commit crimes... I didn't say Zionists and Israel have never committed any crimes just that his grammar sucks.

this has NOTHING to do with the fact that Jewish identity is extremely bastardized due to the fact that it is nothing but a religion, which makes such terms as "Jewish atheist" incorrect. And that Ashkenazi Jews originating from Khazars aren't "real" Jews descended from the ancient Tribes. The ancient Tribes aren't a race either, as they are Semites like Arabs.

It has everything to do with your statement that there is no such thing as "Jewish culture". Anything can have a culture; there is American culture, teen culture, Christian culture, white culture, black culture, music culture, whatever you want can be said to have it's own distinctive culture and yet you seem to think Judaism is exempt from basic rules of the English language...

I don't care about the tribes and whatever you think is required for someone to be Jewish. As far as I'm concerned a Chinese convert is as Jewish as a descendant of the original Jewish tribes.

there's no such thing as a Jewish "people" because it's not a race, just a religion. It's like saying the KKK should have a homeland because they're a "people."

If a person is Jewish then they are a Jewish person and if multiple people are Jewish then they are Jewish people. If those people want to have their own homeland then it would be a Jewish homeland... I'm sure there are KKK members who would like to liberate Virginia and make it their homeland but I don't see it happening in the near future and I don't see that belief as a crime.

[Dan Rowden]

Guys,

I don't think I'm willing to tolerate another thread on this topic. Can you have this conversation in the thread about Jewry, please? If not, I will move this thread to Worldly Matters where it probably belongs anyway...

[ChochemV2]

I'll gladly drop this one as it was becoming a bit too surreal for my tastes... You don't need to lock it on my account I'll just refrain from responding.

[Faust]

[quote="ChochemV2]That's fine, I was just being a grammar ass to Faust. Zionism isn't "a crime" but it could be criminal and Israel isn't "a crime" but it could commit crimes... I didn't say Zionists and Israel have never committed any crimes just that his grammar sucks.[/quote]
my grammar sucks???? you just admitted to Leyla how contradictory you were in your last statement. Israel is a crime because it HAS committed crimes, Zionism IS criminal because it HAS committed crimes.

It has everything to do with your statement that there is no such thing as "Jewish culture". Anything can have a culture; there is American culture, teen culture, Christian culture, white culture, black culture, music culture, whatever you want can be said to have it's own distinctive culture and yet you seem to think Judaism is exempt from basic rules of the English language...

Wtf is Christian culture other than the religion??? Same with "Jewish culture." I'm saying there's no Jewish culture OUTSIDE of the religion in which an Atheist could claim to be a Jew because he practices "Jewish culture." Same with an Atheist who practices "Christian culture" but isn't Christian, there's no such thing as a culture of a religion that's outside of the religion.

I don't care about the tribes and whatever you think is required for someone to be Jewish. As far as I'm concerned a Chinese convert is as Jewish as a descendant of the original Jewish tribes.

well then you're contradicting the traditional meaning of what it means to be a Jew. I myself know there's no such thing as a Jewish race, and all these contradictions make Zionism and Israel criminal and incorrect because there's no such thing as the "Jewish race" to have a country of their own. You don't have countries that are formed out of religion!!!

If a person is Jewish then they are a Jewish person and if multiple people are Jewish then they are Jewish people. If those people want to have their own homeland then it would be a Jewish homeland...

you..don't..make countries...out of the religion... Judaism is a RELIGION, NOT AN ETHNICITY.

I'm sure there are KKK members who would like to liberate Virginia and make it their homeland but I don't see it happening in the near future and I don't see that belief as a crime.

they're also wrong. Unless they're talking about a White ethnicity.