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High standards
Postby Matt Gregory on Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:44 pm
Why do some people set high standards for themselves, possibly ones that they can't reach, and some people who don't? What are the overriding factors in a person's development that causes this?
What are the ramifications of this tendency for becoming wise? Are all who set high standards for themselves wiser than those who don't?
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Re: High standards
Postby wired86 on Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:32 am
Why do some people set high standards for themselves, possibly ones that they can't reach, and some people who don't? What are the overriding factors in a person's development that causes this?
What are the ramifications of this tendency for becoming wise? Are all who set high standards for themselves wiser than those who don't?
Why would you say there are overriding factors?
what do you call wise?
The one's who set unachievable standards for themselves, are always trying to attain, while the one's who don't are sitting on there ass...Another loop, let's wait for the gang to arrive and shred this question, beyond recognition.
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Re: High standards
Postby David Quinn on Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:45 am
A person who reaches for the stars is likely to achieve far more than the person who sets his sights within reach. He may not reach the stars, but the chances are he will reach a high level.
As to why a person would reach for the stars in the first place, the reasons could be many. Perhaps he had an altered state of consciousness when he was very young which opened up his mind to the possibilities of wisdom. Perhaps he made some breakthroughs in his thinking and gained confidence in his ability to reason. Perhaps the example set by a mentor awakened his mind to the possibilities of wisdom. Perhaps he is disgusted by mediocrity and thoughtlessness. Perhaps he hates being confused and ignorant.
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Re: High standards
Postby Elizabeth Isabelle on Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:24 pm
Matt Gregory wrote:Why do some people set high standards for themselves, possibly ones that they can't reach, and some people who don't?
It all depends on what a person values. If a person values taking it easy above all else, they won't set very high standards for themselves. Others value accomplishment more, or the fruits of some particular accomplishment.
Matt Gregory wrote:What are the overriding factors in a person's development that causes this?
There are different combinations of genetic and environmental factors. For a person to set a high standard for themselves, though, on some level that person must believe they can achieve more or closer to what they want by setting a high standard.
They might have been subject to an authority figure who was rather demanding which, depending on how that interacted with their inborn abilities and nature, may have either driven that person to strive harder, or to completely give up. They might be naturally nervous and insecure due to a hormonal balance, and make themselves feel more secure by striving for perfection. They might have been naturally gifted, enjoyed the benefits of being a high achiever, and not wanted to give that up (achievement can be an ego-boost). They may have been really impressed with a hero figure, and wanted to emulate that hero. They may have been helpless due to some kind of lacking, and they may want to make sure that never happens again. There are too many possibilities to list.
Matt Gregory wrote:What are the ramifications of this tendency for becoming wise?
Again, the person must believe on some level that they can either become wise or at least wiser, and wisdom must look like it has some value to it that the person wants in order for that person to pursue that goal.
Matt Gregory wrote:Are all who set high standards for themselves wiser than those who don't?
No. It would depend on such things as why they are setting high standards or low standards, and how we are defining high standards here. A sage's high standards are likely different from a doctor's high standards or a pilot's high standards.
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Re: High standards
Postby HUNTEDvsINVIS on Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:26 pm
Well obviously if you constantly want to improve yourself the reason is that you do not think that you are good enough, or you are unsatisfied with the shit you have. I watch my arch rival, sheesh, she pushes herself to the limits. Studies day and night, breaks out in satisfied convulsions whenever she gets higher marks than me...It's weird to see someone be so obsessed for power or whatever. Obviously she seems to think that becoming a professor or something will be the height of grandeur. I actually have no respect left for most lecturers at the university, especially at the philosophy department. I have never come across such idiots. I have too much integrity to call such people satisfactory specimens of evolution. Anyway, people who don't push themselves to the limits are either satisfied with present conditions or believe they are too stupid to make improvements anyway.
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Re: High standards
Postby Stoinkler on Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:12 pm
people who don't push themselves to the limits are either satisfied with present conditions
Should you ever be satisfied with present conditions? Unless you are enlightened of course.
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Re: High standards
Postby Matt Gregory on Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:04 am
wired86 wrote:
Why do some people set high standards for themselves, possibly ones that they can't reach, and some people who don't? What are the overriding factors in a person's development that causes this?
What are the ramifications of this tendency for becoming wise? Are all who set high standards for themselves wiser than those who don't?
Why would you say there are overriding factors?
If there were ways to induce someone or oneself to develop the habit of forming high standards then I would call them "overriding factors" or factors that seem more important from the perspective of someone trying to manipulate them.
what do you call wise?
In my mind wisdom is the turning about in the deepest seat of consciousness that enables one to perceive the continuum/oneness of reality/nature, even as one engages in everyday dualistic thought processes.
The one's who set unachievable standards for themselves, are always trying to attain, while the one's who don't are sitting on there ass...Another loop, let's wait for the gang to arrive and shred this question, beyond recognition.
I'm not sure what point of mine you're addressing here.
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Re: High standards
Postby cat10542 on Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:35 pm
Well, I think there are various different reason people set high standards for themselves, I don't think there's just one answer to this question, but I can attempt to explain my own experience. I am an over-achiever whether it be academics, thought, or even moral standards.
I'll reply to what others have alread said. some of the posts tend to refer to different types of high standards tho. If you have any specific questions for me, just ask.
As to some of the reasons that David stated...
Perhaps he had an altered state of consciousness when he was very young which opened up his mind to the possibilities of wisdom.
true, this probably has something to do with my contemplative nature, I tend to question everything, but I also tend to be good at reasoning, thus i have been able to see past some of my assumptions about the world.
Perhaps he made some breakthroughs in his thinking and gained confidence in his ability to reason.
true, I naturally do well in school which gave me the confidence in the fact that I can think
Perhaps the example set by a mentor awakened his mind to the possibilities of wisdom.
nope, at least not a person in my life, you could say that authors of some of the books I have read have influenced my current position.
Perhaps he is disgusted by mediocrity and thoughtlessness.
absolutely not, I value understanding and I don't measure myself by comparing myself to others in response to mediocrity. And thoughtlessness is too disconcerting for me, I can't not think.
Perhaps he hates being confused and ignorant.
I do dislike being confused, and ignorance scares me.
On to what Elizabeth stated...
It all depends on what a person values. If a person values taking it easy above all else, they won't set very high standards for themselves. Others value accomplishment more, or the fruits of some particular accomplishment.
It's not so much that I value accomplishment, as it is that I can't stand not trying my best at any particular instant. I do like accomplishing things, but I don't mind failure, as long as I can learn from it. If you fear failure or fear being wrong you're more likely to set lower standards for yourself so that you don't have to face such possible disappointment, and then you'll never really know your potential.
There are different combinations of genetic and environmental factors. For a person to set a high standard for themselves, though, on some level that person must believe they can achieve more or closer to what they want by setting a high standard.
Agreed, and people who set truely impossible standards, give up and don't achieve. People who set seemingly impossible standards, understand the steps involved in their goal, so they actually believe in their ability to accomplish, and gain greater confidence through small increments of achievement, not just through attaining the end goal.
As for me in particular...
They might have been subject to an authority figure who was rather demanding which, depending on how that interacted with their inborn abilities and nature, may have either driven that person to strive harder, or to completely give up.
I do see this in some people, but as for me, the opposite is true, my parents are not demanding, but rather understanding, and I demand more of myself than they ever would of me. I think I baffle them at times.
They might be naturally nervous and insecure due to a hormonal balance, and make themselves feel more secure by striving for perfection.
Not true for me I don't think, but I have a friend who this fits perfectly. If I ever was insecure, I'm not now. I don't base my self-value on the things that I have accomplished.
They might have been naturally gifted, enjoyed the benefits of being a high achiever, and not wanted to give that up (achievement can be an ego-boost).
I am naturally gifted, I do enjoy the benefits of being a high achiever, why would I want to give that up. That said I don't place my happiness in achieving. Being 'the best' in general is a false ideal, it scares me whenever i'm the best at some particular thing as much as it is exciting, I don't let my ego get too full of itself, I hope.
instead of quoting i'm just going to say that the next examples didn't fit me. and yes there are numerous possiblities. and i agree with the rest of what you said.
Next, HUNTEDvsINVIS
Well obviously if you constantly want to improve yourself the reason is that you do not think that you are good enough, or you are unsatisfied with the shit you have.
I'm happy with who I am right now, I do think I'm good enough, and I am satisfied with the shit I have. The thing is everything is constantly changing, I am change, why not change towards what I perceive is a positive direction. I genuinely enjoy learning new things, and I like and am good at understanding things. But being an over-acheiver doesn't mean that you take joy in beating others as your rival does. I do tend to get higher marks than others, but it's out of my own competition with myself, or my own desire to understand things, not a competition with others. I take joy in other peoples successes and I like explaining and helping people understand something as much as learning it myself.
Anyway, people who don't push themselves to the limits are either satisfied with present conditions or believe they are too stupid to make improvements anyway.
Isn't this an arguement for pushing yourself to your limit, or as Stoinkler suggested, becoming enlightened. Oh, but another thought, I'm not really satisfied or unsatisfied with present conditions, why should I attach myself to the now, it's not like the present is going to last. If I am satified with the present conditions, I'll be unsatified when those conditions change, which they will. And if I am unsatified with present conditions, then i'm not happy, and if I'm idealizing future conditions, one of two things can happen; thinks happen exactly as i wanted, but i'm utterly bored cuz it's already happened that way in my mind or things happen differently and i'm dissappointed.
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Re: High standards
Postby Nick Treklis on Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:57 pm
This topic reminds me of one of my favorite quotes, not sure who it's by though. Unknown - "Aim for the moon, even if you miss you will land among the stars."
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Re: High standards
Postby Carl G on Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:27 pm
Nick Treklis wrote:This topic reminds me of one of my favorite quotes, not sure who it's by though. Unknown - "Aim for the moon, even if you miss you will land among the stars."
Definitely not written by an astronomer. There's no logic to the supposition that missing the moon will propel a person light years further out.
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Re: High standards
Postby cat10542 on Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:54 am
Carl G wrote:
Nick Treklis wrote:This topic reminds me of one of my favorite quotes, not sure who it's by though. Unknown - "Aim for the moon, even if you miss you will land among the stars."
Definitely not written by an astronomer. There's no logic to the supposition that missing the moon will propel a person light years further out.
lol, yes, but that quote is on a poster in almost every classroom in America
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Re: High standards
Postby Jamesh on Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:12 am
And by the time you land amongst the stars you'd be dead. So reach for the moon when you have deevloped the right tools.
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High standards vs difficult goals
Postby DHodges on Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:00 pm
I think it's important to make a distinction between having high standards that you hold yourself to, and setting goals, things you are trying to accomplish.
You should always hold yourself to high standards of honesty and moral behavior. (Right living, right thought, etc.)
People sometimes set difficult goals for themselves, and so to accomplish them they may end up compromising their standards. "Reaching for the moon" is a difficult goal. If you compromise your standards on how you go about it, you have a good chance of ending up with dead astronauts.
Lately I have little in the way of goals. The point of goals seems to be to have accomplishments, to impress yourself or others with what you can do. But I do have standards. I'm more concerned with doing things as well as possible, rather than achieving specific ends. There's no specific goal in mind; I'm just trying to live well.
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Re: High standards
Postby Matt Gregory on Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:57 pm
I don't think standards are meaningful without a goal. I think every action needs to be done towards a goal, otherwise there's no impetus to take the action.
So, having a high standard without a goal would be meaningless because without an action to take, you would always meet your standard no matter how high or low it is, since there's nothing to be done.
Am I making sense?
It's analogous to wanting to be as strong as possible, but never testing to see how strong you really are. A standard that's isolated from everything isn't really a standard at all, but a lack of a standard.
I think that's how most people treat standards. That's one of the main reasons the concept of enlightenment appeals to me because Ultimate Truth can be taken as both a goal and a standard. I might not be reaching it, but at least I can now have integrity to know that I'm not reaching it, which is not much but better than nothing.
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