GENIUS FORUMS

Alcohol, coffee, listening to music, overeating for pleasure, random internet surfing, TV...

What place do they have in the life of someone on the philosophical path?

Overeating for pleasure doesn't sound too helpful, but some of the other things might be useful in getting the brain activated if it is getting sluggish.

These things only become a problem if they start to hinder one's progress to wisdom.

Too much of any of those things can certainly be a problem.

From an ultimate perspective, all these things are problems insofar as they arise out of delusion - ie, the ego's desire for satisfaction and comfort.

Random internet surfing doesn't seem to have much value of itself either - unless one is only just beginning to learn how to use the Internet.

From an ultimate perspective, all these things are problems insofar as they arise out of delusion - ie, the ego's desire for satisfaction and comfort.

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That is not an ultimate perspective. The ultimate perspective is that our body is designed to seek out the experience of novel things, so really there is no delusion at all.

Are you currently seeking out novel arguments as a coping mechanism, Jimbo? Sure seems like it :)

Dan Rowden wrote:Random internet surfing doesn't seem to have much value of itself either - unless one is only just beginning to learn how to use the Internet.

Have you ever experienced stumbleupon.com?

I've found some amazing things through that:
musical beads
fun with colors
Sainte Chapelle 360 degrees
the sound of glass unbreaking
Hubble space telescope
fractals
ice caves
rule the universe for a few minutes
polar clock
.

Hmm, I think by and large you're making my point there!

Dan Rowden wrote:Hmm, I think by and large you're making my point there!

I have actually found several things on stumbleupon that I've found quite interesting, and you can set your own categories for what it finds for you. I, for example, stumbledupon this interesting site (though admittedly I was probably the first person to put it in... but it came up later which was kinda odd)

Jamesh wrote:The ultimate perspective is that our body is designed to seek out the experience of novel things, so really there is no delusion at all.

The ego itself has survival advantages - greed, violence, boredom, curiosity . . . all of it. Delusion itself provides survival advantages. But at some point you need to decide whether wisdom is more important, and whether or not survival is more likely with wisdom than it is with the egotism that has served in the past.

Dan Rowden wrote:Hmm, I think by and large you're making my point there!

Very funny, but if you ever try stumbleupon or click on any of those sites again you owe me a dollar.

Kevin Solway wrote:... but some of the other things might be useful in getting the brain activated if it is getting sluggish.

These things only become a problem if they start to hinder one's progress to wisdom.

From my experience, these comforts are almost always an impediment to the seeker. Any suffering he encounters can be coped off with one or more of these coping mechanisms. This prevents him from really facing the suffering and getting to the bottom of it, and keeps him complacent with mediocrity. In my opinion, it would be best to wean oneself of the creature comforts so that progress can occur.

Your question was vague for me in that you hadn't described for what X the coping mechanism is required.

The various activities that you describe are comparable to that of a loner. These are activities that support the desire to be alone rather than a desire to be social. This not to suggest antisocial, but rather to be unsociable.

The path to Enlightenment also requires solitude, aloneness, or isolation. The thought required to formulate concepts is a solitary activity that is disrupted by the presence of others. In the time it took you to post, or for me to respond, either of us *could have* done something social with others. Instead, we chose a point in time to be solitary.

In this respect, I consider the development of philosophy and Enlightenment as a creation to sustain the ability to remain alone. Those who are attracted to studies in philosophy or psychology are those who prefer to be alone. Despite having a toolkit of social skills, isolation breeds thought to ensure that the isolation is maintained.

The very method of philosophy ensures that one thought will lead to the next. One question will lead to the next question. Minutes or hours, and sometimes days can pass for people interested in philosophy without interaction with others.

Personally, I find aloneness a choice. However, being alone is a social taboo and is often uncomfortable for many as a result. This results in a denial of the desire to be alone as philosophers are likely to become self-conscious (embarrassed) by their desire to be alone.

The activities -- in this case, television, surfing the web, etc. are those things will support the desire to alone. This is also different from being lonely.

Toban wrote:

Kevin Solway wrote:... but some of the other things might be useful in getting the brain activated if it is getting sluggish.

These things only become a problem if they start to hinder one's progress to wisdom.

From my experience, these comforts are almost always an impediment to the seeker.

There is a danger that if a person isolates themselves too much from the stimulation of the outside world, before they are ready, they can get into a "loop" of thinking where they mentally stagnate and large parts of the mind atrophy through disuse.

Access to the internet, and random surfing, can upset the mind enough to shatter some delusions, and stop the mind from spiralling in upon its own fantasies.

A delicate balance is necessary.

Kevin, I'm surprised to see you drinking wine here:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~danrowd ... /kevin.htm

It is the most toxic of common recreational drugs, and a great purveyor of unconsicous.
What kind of value does someone who values clarity of thought, find in it?

I say music and the internet are good because they keep me from slapping my roommates when they put "celebrity gossip" on at volumes I'm certain ya'll can hear in Oz at 3am - I may be irritated that I'm awake and unable to concentrate on anything to read, but at least I have something to do...