Celia Green

[Kevin Solway]

Celia Green is a laugh.

I used to criticize her for giving up on wisdom in favour of mere empirical research.

Now I read in her blog that she reckons she "only did it for the money", and because she was "living in extreme poverty and social degradation."

:-)

I liked her commentary on "Sleuth", which ended with:

The objective of modern society is to make everyone decentralised, especially those who formerly had some vestige of centralisation.

This tallies very closely with Dave Sim's estimation that we are all headed for the "Merged Void".

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

Wait a minute, what? She was in wisdom for the money? I skimmed for that part and saw she went to SPR only for the money, but ended up in poverty instead... I'm not quite following what she is saying.
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[Kevin Solway]

It seems that the following pretty much sums-up Celia Green's blockage:

What makes her think that I would value ‘freedom’ more than a social identity? I might well choose to sacrifice ‘freedom’, if I had any, for the sake of social status. I never expected, or wanted, to have to live without social status, and I was deeply grieved and shocked to find myself thrown out of society fifty years ago.

Until she overcomes this idea of "status", she's going nowhere.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

What makes her think that I would value ‘freedom’ more than a social identity?

Oh for goodness sake, that just about sums up your estimation of what a flowie person would say. Why are you wasting your time on this airhead?
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[Kevin Solway]

It is already the case that boys of school leaving age are alienated. They are often what I would call demoralised criminals, which is what the educational system is aiming at producing. The whole object of the modern ideology is to destroy the individual, which means what I call centralised psychology (see my book Advice to Clever Children). Boys and men were more likely to be associated with some kind of centralised psychology -- albeit expressed in the form of very crude ideals -- so they have been particularly under attack in the modern world.

‘Girls more often have patience and persistence to put in coursework’. Girls were supposed to be interested in social interactions and be less achievement orientated, so it is not too surprising that they are better able to tolerate boring and pointless group activities, and boring and pointless work set by hostile (?) teachers.

The whole object of modern ideology is that those who live by legalised crime (doctors, teachers and social workers) should have constant increases in their immoral earnings.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

and boring and pointless work set by hostile (?) teachers.

Kevin,

Have you read Failing at Fairness; How Our Schools Cheat Girls by Myra and David Sadker? It is important to me that you read that, so if you can not get hold of it otherwise, I'm willing to mail it to you.
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[Kevin Solway]

What makes her think that I would value ‘freedom’ more than a social identity?

Oh for goodness sake, that just about sums up your estimation of what a flowie person would say. Why are you wasting your time on this airhead?
.

Later on, she says:

I would never have got a to higher level if my life had been made less impossible, as it is only under extreme pressure that one is going to reject society as a source of significance in a sufficiently absolute way to become centralised in the operative sense.

[Faust]

What the fuck gives Kevin? It is obvious you don't know what the hell happened to her, so it's extremely revolting that you vicariously enjoy her conditions.

She didn't "give up" on "wisdom" for mere empirical research, she was very interested in one important field and she wanted to do it herself, what's wrong with that? Besides, she's written other books that have direct wisdom in them, such as Advice to Clever Children, and the Decline and Fall of Science. It is certainly better than living off other people to search for wisdom.

She worked at the SPR only for the money, she wasn't talking about her career in general you moron.


By "status" she means a professorship, which she needed to carry out important research, it's not an idea to be overcome Kevin. And where do you think she should be going anyway? Finding truth? Then what? Living off other people?

Elizabeth,

you have no idea what happened to her, you're ignorantly following Kevin. By not wanting "freedom" she means what most people refer to it as a lack of a professorship, a mere regular normal person with no means of researching. Flowie? How is she flowie? You're the airhead Elizabeth.

How about you look at her biography first instead of ignorantly spatter your welfare dependant arrogance.

http://celiagreen.com/biography.html

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

Elizabeth,

you have no idea what happened to her,

True. Despite other promptings to look into her, this blog was the first I actually looked at.

you're ignorantly following Kevin.

Really? Does this look like the post of an ignorant follower? :

Wait a minute, what? She was in wisdom for the money? I skimmed for that part and saw she went to SPR only for the money, but ended up in poverty instead... I'm not quite following what she is saying.

Anyway, I'm sure Kevin and a few others are doubled over in laughter about someone labeling me as a follower of Kevin...

By not wanting "freedom" she means what most people refer to it as a lack of a professorship, a mere regular normal person with no means of researching.

As I said, I wasn't quite following what she was saying in her blog. I'll look into it myself. Just because I don't blindly follow Kevin doesn't mean that I'm going to blindly follow you. I appreciate the links, though.

Flowie? How is she flowie?

Again I quote myself:

What makes her think that I would value ‘freedom’ more than a social identity?

Oh for goodness sake, that just about sums up your estimation of what a flowie person would say.

Social identity is a product of going with the flow of society. This question of hers indicates that she values social identity more than freedom - hence, flowie.

You're the airhead Elizabeth.

*debates saying "nuh-uh, you are" for the humor effect*

Once you calm down, please re-read my comments more carefully to see how you jumped to conclusions. I can see that your obvious anger over uncomplimentary statements being made about Celia Green is clouding your objectivity, but I don't understand why you are taking this so personally. Do you have some kind of relationship with her (friend, relative, etc.)?

How about you look at her biography first instead of ignorantly spatter your welfare dependant arrogance.

Huh? I am not on welfare. I trade stocks and options in the stock market. Last I understood, Kevin is not on welfare, but I don't know for sure. Kevin is very elusive about his personal life. That is the major reason I don't trust him.
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[Faust]

Elizabeth,

what she means by "social identity" she's talking about getting what she deserves and making use of it, that of a professorship and research resources. Not all forms of "social identity" are "flowie," such as being a centralised professor, there's not necessarily "flowieness" in it, well in modern times it is, but it's not supposed to be. Also, what the hell is "freedom" anyway? In Britain, mediocracy has ultimately prevailed, and over there they prefer to call "freedom," that of not having anything that is worth having.

I don't have any relationship with her, it's her giftedness and exceedingly high ability and IQ that I envy, especially that she's a woman. Not only that, she already knows alot of "wisdom," such as her books The Human Evasion and the other ones I mentioned. What ticks me off is that Kevin comes along and thinks he has a right to discredit her just because she didn't choose the same "spiritual" (hilarious) path as him. What's ironic is that she's very spiritual and The Human Evasion shows this quite well, instead Kevin still wants to belittle her, primarly because she's a woman, so he wants to think to himself that she still hasn't "got it" yet, bla bla bla.


The welfare comment was directed at Kevin.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

I don't have any relationship with her, it's her giftedness and exceedingly high ability and IQ that I envy, especially that she's a woman. Not only that, she already knows alot of "wisdom," such as her books The Human Evasion and the other ones I mentioned.

The Human Evasion

Okay, I'll give it a read and determine for myself.
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[David Quinn]

Kevin has a lot of respect for Celia Green. He has even included the Human Evasion and some of her other writings on his Thinking Man's website.

She is probably the only public woman that we know of who has some inkling of the Infinite. But like myself, I think Kevin is disappointed that after having tasted the Infinite to some extent, she subsequently fell away and lost her self in the trivialities of paranormal research and the like. At the very least, it is a wasted opportunity on her part.

Also, a lot of her criticisms of society are tinged with personal bitterness, which lessens their impact somewhat.

And not that it matters, but Kevin isn't on welfare.

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[Kelly Jones]

Kevin isn't on welfare.

For how much longer will society let a thinker live on the proceeds of a non-vandalising job ?

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[Kevin Solway]

She didn't "give up" on "wisdom" for mere empirical research

That's not how it appears.

she was very interested in one important field and she wanted to do it herself, what's wrong with that?

It looks like she valued that one field, and "social status", more highly than wisdom.

Besides, she's written other books that have direct wisdom in them, such as Advice to Clever Children, and the Decline and Fall of Science.

Yes, and they are excellent books. She made an excellent start, but there's no evidence that she continued with it.

My impression is that the wisdom in these works came out of the venom she felt towards society for rejecting her, rather than an actual love for Truth. That's a big difference, and the former doesn't have the power to sustain itself.

She rails against society as a means of centralizing herself, but then complains that society doesn't hold her in high esteem. That's not smart.

It's okay to begin by doing that, so long as you grow out of it and learn to centralize through your own powers. Her "centre" has more to do with the ego (which is not altogether a bad thing) than it has to do with true individuality.

It is certainly better than living off other people to search for wisdom.

It depends how valuable you think wisdom is.

She worked at the SPR only for the money, she wasn't talking about her career in general you moron.

So she spent years working on psychophysical research just for the money? It might be true, but it's hard to beleive.

By "status" she means a professorship, which she needed to carry out important research, it's not an idea to be overcome Kevin.

Seeking "social status" within a society of morons is not a wise pursuit.

She's talking about getting what she deserves and making use of it, that of a professorship and research resources.

I probably deserve to be both a Professor of Philosophy and a Professor of Science and on a six-figure income. I too could do wonders with, say, 20 million dollars and directing research activities, but you don't see me complaining about it.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

I probably deserve to be both a Professor of Philosophy and a Professor of Science and on a six-figure income. I too could do wonders with, say, 20 million dollars and directing research activities, but you don't see me complaining about it.

So instead of being a professor of philosophy, promoting wisdom while earning your keep, you earn a living by - what, computer programming? Which does what?
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[Jamesh]

If Kevins points were raised in a Reasoning Show podcast with her it certainly would make for an interesting discussion.

Lol, sadly if Kevin were a multi-millionaire he would probably be able to convince her to participate, but without the social status he can't. Social status is therefore important for being able to effect change. Pity the philosophical price of obtaining such status is great. One can't have social status and be a true fully fledged individual.

[Dan Rowden]

She doesn't do anything for free, it seems. I wrote to her and invited her to do a podcast but I have received no reply. Seems she's not interested in free advertising for her enterprise. Oh well.

[keenobserver]

She doesn't do anything for free, it seems. I wrote to her and invited her to do a podcast but I have received no reply.

Id support it myself If I could help create the question list.

[Dan Rowden]

What would that list look like?

[Kevin Solway]

If someone was willing to provide, say $100, to entice Celia Green to come on the show so we can give her free advertising, she might be more tempted.

[Dan Rowden]

Yes, we'll give her money to provide free advertising. Makes perfect sense to me :)

[keenobserver]

If someone was willing to provide, say $100, to entice Celia Green to come on the show so we can give her free advertising, she might be more tempted.

Where do i send the check?

What would that list look like?

All Your prepared questions with my comments on the bottom.

[Faust]

How was she supposed to centralise herself Kevin? Live off of others? No, more like be a professor, because that's what she deserved. She didn't know that her society was filled with morons, she only experienced that, AFTER she decided to get a career and was prevented from getting it.

The Human Evasion has not a slight evidence of "revenge" for rejection. It was the product of realizing how crazy and unthinking people generally are.

How do you centralise through your own powers? Oh let me guess, welfare? Right, that's very much your own powers alright.

She was nothing but a secretary and a bookkeeper at the SPR, she couldn't do any significant research herself.

[keenobserver]

If Kevins points were raised in a Reasoning Show podcast with her it certainly would make for an interesting discussion.

Lol, sadly if Kevin were a multi-millionaire he would probably be able to convince her to participate, but without the social status he can't. Social status is therefore important for being able to effect change. Pity the philosophical price of obtaining such status is great. One can't have social status and be a true fully fledged individual.

Id like her to explain all about her centralization idea. Is that original or borrowed, etc

[Kevin Solway]

If someone was willing to provide, say $100, to entice Celia Green to come on the show so we can give her free advertising, she might be more tempted.

Where do i send the check?

What would that list look like?

All Your prepared questions with my comments on the bottom.

The best way would be by using Paypal.com to send a payment to ksolway@theabsolute.net

Please add a bit extra to cover fees.

If she doesn't take the bait we can return the money to you or use it to entice another high-profile guest.