Scientific Benefits of Celibacy

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
ABlackGenus
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Re: Scientific Benefits of Celibacy

Post by ABlackGenus » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:09 am

I believe in reverse ascetism. Screw as many broads as you like until you grow tired of it, nauseated from it. Eat as much hedonistic foods as you like, until you grow ill and tired from it. Nauseated, bored, such things will have lost their novelty. Then, truly, you will be above such things.

If you never truly face your fears, or conquer your desires, you will always be fighting them from time to time, you will have never truly vanquished them majorly.

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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Scientific Benefits of Celibacy

Post by Diebert van Rhijn » Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:16 pm

ABlackGenus wrote:I believe in reverse ascetism. Screw as many broads as you like until you grow tired of it, nauseated from it. Eat as much hedonistic foods as you like, until you grow ill and tired from it. Nauseated, bored, such things will have lost their novelty. Then, truly, you will be above such things.

If you never truly face your fears, or conquer your desires, you will always be fighting them from time to time, you will have never truly vanquished them majorly.
It's certainly a way and in most lives this seem to happen anyway with a couple of desires. But the reason for this seems very simple to me. The attraction here didn't not lie in the fulfillment but the illusion and will be the most powerful during stages of the chase, anticipation or even denial of it. Perhaps even especially because of the denials in place.

Fulfillment of these desires can then have the reverse effect of shattering or at least strongly modifying the former illusion.

One problem though here is the effect of addiction and habit forming. Especially with food, emotional of just visual and sensual (over)excitement, the nervous center might get formed by it, forming a new kind of craving: the neurological desire to repeat the experience. Even when growing tired mentally or having "conquered" the fears and desires, this remains then still in place. Not to mention all the other physical effects of over-indulgence over a longer period. For example diseases.

That said, it's very natural to grow out of things after actually having experienced them in full as it's also part of growing older in general. It seems rather stupid to forcefully seeking out all objects of desire just as it's stupid to forcefully avoid and repress them all.

Welcome blackgenus!

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Cahoot
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Re: Scientific Benefits of Celibacy

Post by Cahoot » Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:20 am

ABlackGenus wrote:I believe in reverse ascetism. Screw as many broads as you like until you grow tired of it, nauseated from it. Eat as much hedonistic foods as you like, until you grow ill and tired from it. Nauseated, bored, such things will have lost their novelty. Then, truly, you will be above such things.

If you never truly face your fears, or conquer your desires, you will always be fighting them from time to time, you will have never truly vanquished them majorly.
These things and the consequences could easily entrap attention for the rest of your precious time, during which you would be filled with desire to end them, but the snare would be too tight, despite growing ill and tired of it. They could also end in self-loathing and self-disgust, and then you would have those conditionings to color the prism of your perception for the rest of your days, unless you had enough years left to clean up the mess.

On the other hand, if you desire them, and you deny that desire, this creates an internal conflict, which is a form of inner violence, which is not the peace of mind that comes from detachment from desire.

So there’s the conundrum.

One might fear facing their desires, which would manifest through gluttony, etc.

At the root, all fear is the same.

selfdef
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Re: Scientific Benefits of Celibacy

Post by selfdef » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:26 pm

Arktos - You can find a review of scientific materials if you look in the right places:

Search for the following at selfdefinition [dot] org

Mark Jaqua: Conservation Therapy

You will find a ton of articles there. I especially recommend Napoleon Hill for you:

NAPOLEON HILL, Think and Grow Rich, Chapter 11, THE MYSTERY OF TRANSMUTATION

Bernard is also there:

Science Discovers the Physiological Value of Continence

Also look for the Celibacy Links Page.

You're obviously taking the high road. Good luck in your journey.

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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Scientific Benefits of Celibacy

Post by Diebert van Rhijn » Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:00 pm

Hi selfdef, welcome and thanks for posting some reference material on the subject. Posting links, if needed, will be possible now for you.
selfdef wrote:Arktos - You can find a review of scientific materials if you look in the right places:

Search for the following at selfdefinition [dot] org
Mark Jaqua: Conservation Therapy
Thanks, not sure if Arktos still reads here, but I''ll read it and refresh my understanding of this complex issue from that perspective.
NAPOLEON HILL, Think and Grow Rich, Chapter 11, THE MYSTERY OF TRANSMUTATION
At the fundamental level that doesn't sound that different to me than Sigmund Freud's definition of libido
  • ... "the energy, regarded as a quantitative magnitude ... of those instincts which have to do with all that may be comprised under the word 'love'."[4] It is the instinct energy or force, contained in what Freud called the id, the strictly unconscious structure of the psyche.

    Freud viewed libido as passing through a series of developmental stages within the individual. Failure to adequately adapt to the demands of these different stages could result in libidinal energy becoming 'dammed up' or fixated in these stages, producing certain pathological character trait
There is a temptation to call it just "sex drive" but that's only because sexual expression would be libido's re-emergence at puberty in the genital stage. So it appears to start there and we call it "sexual energy". And from there the challenge is to develop this further, beyond the confines of cultural or social expectation, this "imagery" spoon-fed to us and guiding the sexual fixations along in less conscious individuals.

It's no surprise that Freud later on wrote about "death drive" and not "sex drive" any more. The reason for this lies in the discovery that this "unconscious" structure of the psyche is ruled by way rawer elements than the more developed notions of sexual reproduction & power structuring with all the various erotic fixations needed to create the energetic arousals. These building blocks in isolation show up as aggression, domination, the whole desire machinery: a desire to power, expression of power simply because one can. And part of desire will always be the element of seduction.

But that all starts with object consciousness, the desire to objectify and posses the object through "subjectification". That's in my current view a more complete description of the primal structure of the root of the psyche (or whatever we call it, world, existence etc). Although it could need a fleshing out of the meaning of seduction (or the question if the object seduces the power or that the power challenges the object to "exist").

You'll notice there's a tie-in here with certain Buddhist notions: desire fuelling ego and construction of a "world out of suffering".

That the general notions of success are related to having some great drive towards a goal (being it sex, death or otherwise) will not be a shock to anyone. A greater discussion in my view is the understanding how the "genital stage" of sexuality (so called in psychoanalysis) will relate to the desired possession of material wealth or status. And what happens when the desire goes beyond even that: the universe itself as object, to conquer, to understand and even to subjectify the absolute itself.

selfdef
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Re: Scientific Benefits of Celibacy

Post by selfdef » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:51 am

Thanks for the reply Diebert -

I never read much on Freud, primarily because he mostly added to my confusion about s-e-x. Of course I was 18 then and am 65 now, so I have a different perspective. Forgive me for making a joke at Freud's expense:
It's no surprise that Freud later on wrote about "death drive" and not "s-e-x drive" any more.
This is a natural move of our consciousness as we get older, to let go of the fixation on s-e-x and start wondering how much time we have left on this planet.

But the greater point, which the OP seemed to be getting at, is that there are very different grades of mentality among men. He had come across people who experienced exalted states of mind and was disappointed (rightly) that there exist a multitude determined to drag him down to earth (as if they plan to be here forever too).

For a 20-year old to take an interest in celibacy as a means to a higher life is a remarkable thing in this day and age, when what used to be considered depravity is now even invited to the White House (not trying to get political, just that it's the highest office in the land).

The benefits of celibacy are subjective and can only be known when the practice is tried. However, as the OP mentioned, some of the highest minds in history recommended it as a way to reach cosmic consciousness or whatever word one cares to use for higher states of mind.

Speaking honestly, especially with college age people, the use of the word "celibacy" is a polite way of recommending that they refrain from masturbation. Again, thousands will rush in to ridicule and scorn such an idea; however, these are not among the highest minds in history.

Thanks for allowing me to post links now. I was thinking of using the original post for the "celibacy quotes" section of my website, which contains a variety of views on celibacy. The post struck me instantly as an example of a clear and determined search for a higher way of life.

Oops, the board isn't letting me post the link, Will try this

selfdefinition [dot] org/celibacy/quotes/

Be well.

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