Richard Dawkins V. Ted Haggard

[Beingof1]

Carl G:

Not everyone here is a naysayer of scripture. I agree that one who is wise will not be such.

I appreciate that Carl, and yet, it is derided as if there is nothing to its wisdom must be an emotional outburst of an internal conflict.

It is not the scriptures that are disliked, it is the fear yet to be vanguished concerning existence and is projected.

Do you actually believe that one of the QRS triumvirate has unleashed virus attacks on your computer? I myself have noticed a vast increase in intrusion attempts on mine lately, but I take it as a coincidence that I am posting on this site.

Oddly enough when I cross referenced the time stamp dates with the original infection, wonder of wonders, exact time and date. Port scans to the exact time and date stamp of the original were exact matches.

Lose a debate and infect your opponent is inane childish behaviour for a so called "sage."

Deducing the rest through logic, I do not think it is all three, it is just one.

Where do you get your info that there will be a world crash early next year? Isn't that something one can find predicted almost every year? I've heard it so many times that I've ceased to pay attention.

Inductive and deductive logic, I have no idea how severe it will be. It is going to be epic.

1)India and Pakistan are testing their delivery systems. This fact denotes intellgience gathering in anticipation of conflict.

2)The leadership of Iran must make good on the promise of the Muslim messiah returning to a set time schedule or lose their momentum and power base. Power is the most easy thing to prdict once you understand what is the primary motive.

3)The mossad released information that the Iranians now have a trigger and enriched uranium. They will be capable of warhead capacity by March-April.

4)The demonstrations in Beruit of almost a million siding with those that seek a cataclysmic war.

5)Iran and Syria have just concluded a mutual interest(military) pact.

6)The destabilization in Iraq is partly due to elements in the USA that are making billions by this state of insurgency and so arm them. War is a big money maker. Conclusion of human nature and greed.

7) All the Western economic indicators show a frenzy of trading. This could be attributed to anticipating a huge dip coming of the major players in the investment game.

8) Real estate in the USA is plummeting, meaning; the investors are looking short term and no longer seek long term.

There is much more but these should tell you, at the minimum, there will be an oil crunch. That is just the beginning.


Diebert van Rhijn:

Beingof1, you sound a bit feverish man, are you okay?

Any specific reason the world will crash next spring? It would be about time. And how to prepare?

Diebert - no one is listening.

I am using methods of drama because that is what gets responded to. This crash is being orchestrated by the most devious methods that can be imagined.

Most believe the governments of the world are the 'decision makers'. If you use cold hard logic, factor in human nature, you can see behind the smoke and mirrors.


Elizabeth Isabelle:

There's probably a stock market crash coming up pretty soon (actually more of a correction, but it's been such a bull run that it will feel like a crash), probably going to panic a lot of people right about that time, but the way you are phrasing it makes you sound like a madman rather than a prophet.

It won`t happen all at once - this is just the beginning.

Believe or disbelieve, its your choice.


Iolaus:

I looked up your linked site. I was happy that they seem to present this Ph balancing formula for a reasonable price. I get a lot of mail with various interesting products, but I notice they all seem to have about the same price of 30+ dollars per person per month. Must be some sort of marketing analysis that tells them this is what the public will bear. Problem is, there are quite a few, and if you add them up, it comes to a lot, even if you pick just a few good ones.

They have had well over a thousand cases of terminal disease reversed. They cannot publish this fact as the FDA would shut them down.

I've got a book called The Battle for Health is Over Ph, and it tells you a lot of strategies for maintaining an alkaline Ph, without buying any 'formula'.

Keep your PH up and you will be fine. If you know how, you probably do not need this product, this is just a simple way of maintaining the healthy level.


sschaula:

Anger is a sign of ego flailing. It's a sign of an absence of truth

Indeed it is; so is blindly clinging to dogma.

Peacefulness is "the fruit of the spirit". I may not know much but that I do know. I hope you are okay, Being of One.

Peace is the absence of internal conflict, you are right sir.

I hope you are okay, Being of One. You have said kind words to me in the past, and I think you are an honest person...so I really hope you don't go all crazy.

This will be my last - I cannot keep spending hours trying to stabalize my system from dimwitts, when time is of the essence.

There is a failing of stabilization in Iraq, it is intentional and designed. The agenda is to reduce the population to five hundred million. I do not want to walk through every single step and where I get my information, it would take days to do that in multiple posts.

Get yourself a years worth of food, plenty of water, and survival gear. Life and death are not the issue, your survival is. I hope you understand what I just said.

Get to know God - you now know he is real.

Namaste and Maranatha


David Quinn:

He could die at any moment.

Oh well, that's the wheel of life and death for you. What can you do?

What can you do? What kind of question is that? If he is sick you can do alot.

Why don`t you just dip your head under water and take a deep breath?

A poster here is right - you are a nihilist. You have a philosophy that tries to escape the pain rather than eliminate it. You are in denial.

Carl G wrote:
Not everyone here is a naysayer of scripture. I agree that one who is wise will not be such.

David:
Are you sure about that?

What about Mormon scripture? Or the scared tenets of the Ku Klux Klan? Or the Koran, which advocates the killing of unbelievers?

What about the teachings of the Buddha?

Oh - thats different. Because it allows you to stick your head in the sand (through you arbitrairily picking) and confirms your irresponsibility as some kind of 'wisdom'.

What a bunch of tripe - yet you just patently make what passes for antihuman behaviour as wisdom.

Wake up - there is God. Its a conclusion of cold hard logic, unless you lack the ethics required for it.

A lot of the Bible focuses on the story of an angry, vengeful God smiting the enemies of Israel and casting them into hell. Is this something that you would expect a wise person to approve of?

You do not know what you are talking about.

Each time I have discussed this with you and Kevin, you both end up running like a flock of geese. Yet; you blindly hold the Bible to double standards and do not understand what you read.

Parable:
If I walk into a basketball game and see the score is 60 - 0, home team winning. I would say the visiting team is not even a challenge.

I then observe the visiting team scoring points. Mysteriously, they are still at zero points scored!

I ask why are their points not being recorded? The answer is "we are so sure they cannot win, we don`t bother redording their score."

The answers are in the cohesive, cogent, and honest logic department (of which you champion). You ignore all the evidence that proves the validity of Jesus and scripture because you still have not opened your mind to the possibility it may be true.

You therefore; are a blind believer, just another fundy of a different stripe.

What about when Jesus spoke of the need to give up all attachments, to hate your mother and father, wife and children, to turn family members against each other, to bring fire and destruction upon the earth, etc, if you want to be his disciple - do you say yea to this?

When the Way is forgotten
Duty and justice appear;
Then knowledge and wisdom are born
Along with hypocrisy.

When harmonious relationships dissolve
Then respect and devotion arise;
When a nation falls to chaos
Then loyalty and patriotism are born.

-- Lao Tzu

This is patently true because it is not in the Bible huh?

You are still clueless because you are not opening your mind. We have already covered these sayings of Jesus over and over and yet; you ignore all the TRUE answers because it does not line up with your dogma.

Ask Diebert what the sayings of Jesus means, he could tell you.

Here is a clue to what it means - of which you will probably ignore again:

Nature is complete because it does not serve itself.

The sage places himself after and finds himself before,
Ignores his desire and finds himself content.

He is complete because he does not serve himself.

-- Lao Tzu

Did you get it yet?

You are more than just synapsis - duh.

Let me try again because obviously you need more than multiple examples to penetrate your predjudice.

If we could abolish knowledge and wisdom
Then people would profit a hundredfold;
If we could abolish duty and justice
Then harmonious relationships would form;
If we could abolish artifice and profit
Then waste and theft would disappear.

Yet such remedies treat only symptoms
And so they are inadequate.

People need personal remedies:
Reveal your naked self and embrace your original nature;
Bind your self-interest and control your ambition;
Forget your habits and simplify your affairs.

-- Lao Tzu

Did you get it yet?

I can do the same thing with any sage, wanna see?

Jesus: "Do to others as you would have them do to you." Luke 6:31
Buddha: "Consider others as yourself." Dhammapada 10:1

Jesus: "If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also." Luke 6:29
Buddha: "If anyone should give you a blow with his hand, with a stick, or with a knife, you should abandon any desires and utter no evil words." Majjhima Nikaya 21:6

Jesus: "Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me." Matthew 25:45
Buddha: "If you do not tend to one another, then who is there to tend you? Whoever would tend me, he should tend the sick." Vinaya, Mahavagga 8:26.3

Jesus: "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword." Matthew 26:52
Buddha: "Abandoning the taking of life, the ascetic Gautama dwells refraining from taking life, without stick or sword." Digha Nikaya 1:1.8

Jesus: "Those who want to save their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will save it." Mark 8:35
Buddha: "With the relinquishing of all thought and egotism, the enlightened one is liberated through not clinging." Majjhima Nikaya 72:15

Jesus: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you." Matthew 28:19-20
Buddha: "Teach the dharma which is lovely at the beginning, lovely in the middle, lovely at the end. Explain with the spirit and the letter in the fashion of Brahma. In this way you will be completely fulfilled and wholly pure." Vinaya Mahavagga 1:11.1

Did you get it yet?

1) Wisdom is not found in a book.
2) You are more than chemical energy.
3) You care about others.
4) You cannot become more wise than God.
5) Cause and effect is just a stepping stone without a cause.
6) Your life has value because you are alive.

I could go on, I am hoping you get "IT".

All worship the all powerful "IT". IT creates consciousness, IT is mindless, IT contains cause and effect, IT landed on the moon, IT created reality, IT is raining, IT is not like a stupid god or something.

All worship the all powerful IT, we know IT is not God because we already know its an IT. I like IT because I don`t like God.

You are trying to engage others to help save yourself - this is impossible. Your conscious is the only thing that can save you and wonder of wonders, it has desire and will.

I agree that debating religious beliefs which are rooted in empiricism (e.g. God is a big grandfather in the sky) is a waste of time.It is like debating whether aliens exist on other planets. There is no means of resolving the matter through simple discussion. It is ultimately a matter of science and empirical observation to resolve one way or the other, if indeed it can be resolved at all.

You still do not get it. You cannot ignore your very own conscious and find Truth.

You take what is written and put it to the test - duh.

You have made the conclusion God is mindless, that is not logic, that is denial. Do you have a mind?

However, there is benefit in discussing those types of religious or philosophical issues which are purely logical in nature. For these can be resolved via discussion and logical analysis. And indeed, this is what Genius Forum is primarily about.

Except; you ignore logic when it overturns your baseless conclusions.

1)You have a mind and intellect.
2)You experience reality.
3)Reality is impossible without experience.
4)You perceive the Totality.

Therefore God is mindless? The conclusion does not match a single premise you build upon.

For example, if "God" were to be defined as the totality of all there is, then His existence would automatically be proven.

You are antireason and antirational and in conflict with your very own existence.

God is meta mind - that, is the irreducible and irrefutible if you actually use cold hard logic.

I should point out, though, that a wise person might still have valid reasons for rejecting wise scripture - not so much as far as his own understanding is concerned, but if he sees people being too attached to a particular scripture, or if they are misunderstanding it.

You resent the Christian God and therefore reject scripture - that is irrational.

You misunderstand almost all scripture - you are now playing the "I am smarter than you game."

I am not impressed.

For example, if he comes across a spiritual person who is too locked into the Christian mindset for his own good and has consequently closed himself off to other modes of perception, then he might think it worthwhile to speak against the scripture, or, at the very least, put the scripture into its proper context.

The problem is; you do not understand most of the scripture - that is obvious to anyone who does. You twist it into irrational babble because you want to undermine Christians.

That is just as agenda ridden as any other fundy.

He doesn't really have cancer. But nonetheless, he could die at any moment

I thought, just a couple of months ago he did. It was posted as fact. If he does not, cool. I was trying to help by maintaining his PH.


Dan:

Have you not felt something when you have lost people Dan?

I felt something when I had to reformat my computer this morning (only to discover it didn't solve the problem). But this is only because I am not perfectly de-egotised. I am still not perfectly dwelling in Reality. That is the real point.

So reality is reformatting a computer?

You're wanting the best of both world's there I think. Emotions aren't counter-enlightenment only in the sense that if they are not occuring too potently, thought can occur. Beyond that the truth is emotions just don't arise in the actual enlightened state because the fuel for them to ignite is absent - i.e. ego and notions of self-related loss/gain etc. David and Sue would only feel such personal pain to the extent that they are imperfect.

Mind numbing incantations of dogma regardless. They only seduce you through hypnoticsm by the technique of escapism. You are enslaved to a robot like existence that has no basis in actual reality. It is an idealized reality that exists only as a concept.

You are living under the tyranny of a robust philosophy that conditions you to believe you can be antihuman, feel nothing, and helps you to live a sacreligious life.

I respect you Dan - but you have bought a sales pitch that is empty of understanding and logic. You can be immune to resentment and unforgiveness but you cannot experience beyond all emotion. You may only transcend harmful and addictive emotion.

It does not matter that we disagree so much as we are clear as to where we disagree.

The scripture is almost never clearly understood by those that seek to devalue its timeless wisdom - just intentionally mangled as regard to its meaning.

Syntax and semantics are two entirely different things. Syntax is the proper response to the execution of the language, with or without meaning. Semantics is cognizing the meaning.

You could be in a room that translates Chinese. You could receive messages, look up in a translator book the proper response to the syntax and send it.

That does not mean you understand the coded message at all - it just means you used the code without the meaning. You could even make the staement that Chinese, after using it, makes no sense and is meaningless. You would be void of understanding Chinese if you make this statement even after using it in a coherent way.

[Greg Shantz]

What do you think of the Gnostic interpretation of scripture, Ken?

[edit-clarified question]

[Leyla Shen]

Fair dinkum, Bo1, that really is a load of religious fanatacism. You think non-Christians have not managed to arrive at similar, "revelatory" conclusions? In fact, what's the bet that that's where most of your information comes from--apart from the mossad tripe; that's obviously Jewish propaganda...

.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Beingof1, good to see you posting with such drive and passion. Really, I think you shouldn't "cut and run" but keep addressing with some patience some of the replies that will come. Some of your criticisms in your long post seem justified, others I think are based in misunderstanding and could be cleared up if there's willingness to be found in all participants, including yourself.

Lets start with your fear of being 'hacked', since I know a lot about the topic and could give you another perspective. I'd almost be tempted to say I was analyzing computer circuits and communications when you were wearing diapers, which isn't true of course since you're older than me, but in terms of knowledge on the subject I think I could teach you here.

Oddly enough when I cross referenced the time stamp dates with the original infection, wonder of wonders, exact time and date. Port scans to the exact time and date stamp of the original were exact matches.

Port scans around the same time you're reading or posting on this board? Perhaps you should read the following analysis which could broaden your understanding about the phenomenon of false positives. To summarize, false alerts of portscans while visiting this site can be caused by slow server responses in combination with specific firewall brand or settings on your PC. If a server is slow with responding a firewall can mark the late returning traffic as 'intruding'. This traffic can appear to come from different hosts than the initial URL implies because of caching servers in between, remotely linked images or avatars and so on. It might be even caused by one specific avatar here.

Lose a debate and infect your opponent is inane childish behaviour for a so called "sage."

Since any member sharing an avatar on this board could get your IP address, there's no reason to suspect the owner of the board. Unless you can see the attack originates from the server hosting this board, which would make my theory above more likely than less. Kevin hosts this site on a cheap (sorry Kevin) provider which could cause delays at times on certain times of the day, at least for some of us.

Deducing the rest through logic, I do not think it is all three, it is just one.

I think your logic is hampered by not knowing all the facts while filling in the blanks with mere suspicions. You know Bible and I know computers. :)

Most believe the governments of the world are the 'decision makers'. If you use cold hard logic, factor in human nature, you can see behind the smoke and mirrors.

Your logic appears to be based on assumptions taken from what you read in the news on what heavily politicized, and religion inspired intelligence agencies from West and East and other parties have decided to put in there. There are also many things to be found, by experts and people on the scene (like UN inspectors, former intelligence people, journalists and researchers) that contradict strongly the items you raised about Iran, Iraq etc.

You must be careful, really careful not to let your background of being raised Christian with all the 'End of Times' prophecies and desires to an 'end' and historical changes overpower your own final judgment. It's still possible to understand the times as well as scripture in new ways. The 'revelation' has not ended yet. I still remember the yearly predictions about Russia and communism, the Bomb, Hal Lindsey books and stuff : all mostly out-dated now or rewritten.

[Iolaus]

One,

They have had well over a thousand cases of terminal disease reversed. They cannot publish this fact as the FDA would shut them down.

Definitely so. I have some interest in a couple of their products, but I don't really want to become a member.

[sschaula]

B of 1,

There is a failing of stabilization in Iraq, it is intentional and designed. The agenda is to reduce the population to five hundred million. I do not want to walk through every single step and where I get my information, it would take days to do that in multiple posts.

I realize you don't want to spend the time, or you don't have the time, but it'd be helpful if you explained more about why you think this will happen. How do you know the failing stabilization of Iraq is intentional and designed? (I'm not saying that's false, it may very well be true) Do you mean reduce the WORLD population to five hundred million? Or the American? Or the Middle East? If the world population were reduced to 500 million, it would probably take care of a lot of problems, like global warming, possible food shortages, oil shortages, etc...but it's very unlikely. I will still consider it a possibility. How do you think it will be done, if it is done? Some sort of virus being spread? War? Contaminating food sources, or water supplies? This is a key part of the puzzle...knowing how it would be executed.

More importantly, why will it be done?

About not wanting to go through and explain how you think what you do, because it would take days...we have days. :)

For now at least.

Get yourself a years worth of food, plenty of water, and survival gear. Life and death are not the issue, your survival is. I hope you understand what I just said.

I don't really. The only way survival would be the issue, while life and death are not, is if I were to have my reproductive system taken out or something. And I don't see how having a year's worth of food, water and survival gear would help me out with that. What are you suggesting is going to happen? From what it seems like...contamination of most, if not all, major food and water sources?

What kind of survival gear do you mean? First aid kits, cold weather gear, knives hatches and matches, guns, flashlights, etc...? While I don't necessarily believe that what you're saying is true, I would be willing to take precautions against it...even if it seems insane. You never know what can happen...better safe than sorry. Yet, I don't know exactly what you're warning everyone against. If it's war breaking out in America, then guns would be an important survival tool. But if it's contamination of food and water sources, then guns wouldn't be that big of a deal. If there were to be power outages for long periods of time, then fire would be an essential. I have kind of a rough idea of what I would need for a general survival situation, yet what you've said here is very unclear.

Get to know God - you now know he is real.

I don't see what God has to do with this world crash that you're talking about.

[kowtaaia]

Scott,

Take that bloody stupid black bar off your avatar picture! :)

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

Scott,

Take that bloody stupid black bar off your avatar picture! :)

I saw the attempts he made before this one - he looked pretty good in the one with him and his girlfriend, but when he clipped it to just be him, the light reflected strangely in his eyes - red glowing on one side and white glowing on the other. He looked posessed and demented. You don't want him to take the box off. Maybe another picture...

[kowtaaia]

...but he is posessed and demented! :)

[sschaula]

I have no problem with being possessed and demented, I just don't want people to be able to recognize me.

...by the way, that wasn't my girlfriend.

[kowtaaia]

I have no problem with being possessed and demented, I just don't want people to be able to recognize me.

Then don't say "Reveal yourself." 'kowtaaia' has been around for awhile. Cory isn't the only one that's pissed. :)

...by the way, that wasn't my girlfriend.

Hopefully, it wasn't a prisoner.

[sschaula]

I don't mind anyone that regulary posts here knowing what I look like. I just don't want someone to look up my name on a search engine and be able to easily find out what I am about.

[kowtaaia]

Okey dokey. It's a good job then, that we didn't prepay the hit man. :)

[Carl G]

I don't mind anyone that regulary posts here knowing what I look like. I just don't want someone to look up my name on a search engine and be able to easily find out what I am about.

Gotcha, you don't want anyone using Google to see your googley eyes. Sorry, reminded of the old cartoon with the song " Bar-ney Google, with the goo-goo-googley eyes." Anyway, you're funny, spouting your opinions, using your real name and face, and still thinking you're somehow anonymous. You're like the girl in a string bikini who thinks she's covering up something.

[kowtaaia]

Don't tell him!

[Carl G]

Beingof1,

I join my voice with those who have already said it would be a shame for you to leave it at this. If you have the time and energy, I'm sure there are others who would benefit from further discussion (especially between you and David) of the fundamental issues you've raised.

Lord knows it would be better than listening to Heckle and Jeckle (aka Kowtaaia and Beebuddy cackling like a couple self-satisfied old crows).

[sschaula]

Carly,

Gotcha, you don't want anyone using Google to see your googley eyes. Sorry, reminded of the old cartoon with the song " Bar-ney Google, with the goo-goo-googley eyes." Anyway, you're funny, spouting your opinions, using your real name and face, and still thinking you're somehow anonymous. You're like the girl in a string bikini who thinks she's covering up something.

Uhhhh...what are you saying? I simply have realized how easy it would be for girls to type in my full name and research me. I'm sure a few have done it already. I'd rather not have them know what I'm thinking.

So I guess I'm more like the girl in a string bikini who just realized what she was wearing and is currently in the closet changing into something less revealing.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

I mentioned that exact scenario to Steven a month and a half ago and you're now just realizing it?

[sschaula]

I always knew that girls could look me up, but I never knew they would.

Besides crazy girls...potential employers...family members...etc. I just don't want to be associated with a messageboard that seems misogynistic, atheistic and nihilistic when I'm not any of those things.

[kowtaaia]

Lord knows it would be better than listening to Heckle and Jeckle (aka Kowtaaia and Beebuddy cackling like a couple self-satisfied old crows).

You're just mad because up until now, we never comment on what you post. It's that unimportant.

[Carl G]

Lord knows it would be better than listening to Heckle and Jeckle (aka Kowtaaia and Beebuddy cackling like a couple self-satisfied old crows).

You're just mad because up until now, we never comment on what you post. It's that unimportant.

milli-kowtaaia,
It's good to know you are on the job, as judge and jury. How 'bout I buy you a candy bar?

[Ryan Rudolph]

Here is a funny interview between Stephen Colbert and Richard Dawkins:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuXpysYE ... ed&search=

[kowtaaia]

Lord knows it would be better than listening to Heckle and Jeckle (aka Kowtaaia and Beebuddy cackling like a couple self-satisfied old crows).

You're just mad because up until now, we never comment on what you post. It's that unimportant.

milli-kowtaaia,
It's good to know you are on the job, as judge and jury. How 'bout I buy you a candy bar?

No thank you. Do you eat candy?

[tharpa]

Well, I hopped onto the forum tonight just for fun and stumbled into a few threads, and in each of which I find something I have often thought about I have already posted little essays or whatever. And for whatever reason, I feel like sharing them. So here is my contribution to the evolution business - a playful one might I add, from tradition asian philosophical sources morphed into a folk-tale type format.

The Birth of our World - a fanciful version

THE BIRTH OF OUR WORLD

“The REALM OF DESIRE”

Lord Buddha:

"Long indeed is the æon: it is not easy to calculate by saying: 'So many years, so many centuries, so many millenia, so many hundred thousand years'."

"But can an illustration be given, Lord?"

"It can," replied the Exalted One. "Just as if there were a mighty mountain crag, four miles long, wide and high, without a crack or cranny, not hollowed out, one solid mass of rock, and a man should come out once every hundred years, and with a piece of soft silk should lightly rub it just once: sooner would that mighty mountain crag be worn away by this method, sooner be used up, than the æon.

"Thus long, brother, is the æon: of æons thus long, many an æon has passed away, many a hundred æons, many a thousand æons, many a hundred thousand æons." [1]

After the previous kalpa ended, since there was no longer a physical world, many beings were born into a mental, or god, realm which still exists today. Here, even though they had no bodies as such, every experience was a delightful combining of light and joy. As they became more familiar with this existence and developed different textures and levels of joy, a universe gradually developed made mainly of air and then gas and then water. As subtle movements between these substances gradually gathered in momentum and strength, just as the gods discrimination of textures of joy, of light, of perfume and of sounds waxed in intensity and variety, so increasingly more powerful winds gradually caused a sense of form to solidify as actual matter; at first this was like light bubbly scum, then like skin on top of rice pudding, and then like a rich, creamy custard, beautiful in taste, colour and smell. So as the gods appreciation of joy developed more textures and weight so did their surrounding realm gradually become more and more substantial and solid.

The gods at that time were still without bodies, living off joy alone, shedding their own light. The sun, moon and stars did not yet exist, nor did time, as we know it. However, as they gradually learned to appreciate colour, sounds, smells taste and even touch, slowly they began to nourish themselves on these more solid forms of joy that were formed from appreciating their environment and gradually they even developed a craving for these experiences. Consequently, their bodies became more and more solid, and they lost their radiant luminosity, so the sun and the moon appeared as did the cycles of time as we now know them because of a gradual waxing of the cycle of alternating degrees of higher pleasures and lower pleasures which could be compared one from another. So working in this way together, the increasingly earthy appetites of the god beings whose original existence consisted of simple joy alone without even a body, gradually created both a world with many different things to enjoy, such as sea, earth, clouds, sun, moon, stars, wind, grass, trees, and many different types of fruits and vegetables. At the same time, their bodies became more and more solid; so much so, indeed, that they actually depended on physical food for survival. What first had been a purely mental pleasure had now become a necessity.

At first, the sort of fruits they could eat were somewhat magical. Each person had his own plant, which produced a corn-like fruit and each day; as one fruit was eaten, another would appear at the rate of one a day, which was all they needed. But gradually some people ate more than one fruit a day and some fruits were different in different parts of the world so also these god-people became more and more different from each other. Those whose foods and appetites were less heavy, were less coarse and dark than those who were eating more solid substances. So individuals began to differ and then to compare each other and those that felt more beautiful and superior developed vanity and pride and those who felt inferior or less beautiful developed anger and embarrassment.

At some point, when food and bodies had developed to be almost as solid as we know them now and a grain similar to rice had appeared, people were so used to comparing and making distinctions based on vanity that soon thereafter the organs of the male and female sex developed. After this, the faculty of comparing and choosing developed further into lust for members of the opposite sex, which alternates between great delight and anxiety. To protect their mates from others, they began to build houses and develop the idea of private property; and in order to eat the type of food that suited their particular type of appetites, sometimes they planted their own crops and then had to protect them from others lest they be stolen. They realised that in order to survive and protect themselves from thieves and wandering bandits, they gradually organised themselves into communities and created Kings and Queens to oversee their mutual protection. From satisfying simple, almost ethereal appetites, whole solid worlds and societies with greed and fear had evolved involving real suffering.

Along with pleasure from satisfying appetite, there was pain when appetite was unfulfilled or the bodies in which they experienced these things were hurt, or became sick, or grew old or died. At the same time that all these difficulties undoubtedly had been formed, nevertheless it was and is also true that life, in all its millions of forms and different experiences, is a magical, miraculous affair that, with hard work and an uplifted attitude, can be lived and enjoyed.

This is how we went from being long-lived god-beings living off mental joy alone, to struggling, suffering beings who have to be careful of our lives and our property. All of these developments took countless hundreds of millions of years and are still going on today, even as we speak. However, in this way, the night of space without beginning or end gradually gave way to the dawn of life, with all its myriad forms, colours, sounds, smells, touches, stars, planets, sun and moon, species, climates, races, cultures, thoughts, feelings and languages, gestures, tears and laughter. The story [2] is only just beginning.


[1] Samyutta-Nikaya, re-translated from "Some sayings of the Buddha” p 27 Shantarakshita, A survey of Buddhism.

[2] This story is based on traditional Tibetan folk tales.

http://samsara-nirvana.blogspot.com/200 ... rsion.html
(PS, not an attempt to get people to contribute to the blog, but there is other stuff there related if you like the above, that's all).

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

There is a world crash coming in Feb-March of next year. Get this while you can.

There's probably a stock market crash coming up pretty soon (actually more of a correction, but it's been such a bull run that it will feel like a crash), probably going to panic a lot of people right about that time, but the way you are phrasing it makes you sound like a madman rather than a prophet.

Sometimes I hate it when I'm right.
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