What do you consider to be the greatest thing of all:
The highest understanding of Reality?
The heady pleasure of great emotional happiness?
The exquisite bliss of the mystical experience?
Intimacy with others?
Peace on earth and the material well-being of all humankind?
Feeling safe and comfortable?
If you had a choice between the solitary path of experiencing the highest understanding of Reality and leading a communal life of great emotional happiness, which would you choose?
Greatest thing of all
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David Quinn
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Dave Toast
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Re: Greatest thing of all
According to which particular set of the values I hold?
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David Quinn
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Re: Greatest thing of all
Which set of values do you hold?
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Dave Toast
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Re: Greatest thing of all
I couldn't trust myself to answer that in sufficient detail.
The unenlightened mind is too capricious.
The unenlightened mind is too capricious.
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Dave Toast
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Re: Greatest thing of all
The point was that I dare say I've aquired enough different values in this lifetime to be able to consider each and every one of your options as the greatest, according to one, the other, or some particular combination.
Your second question is the corollary of your original question.
My answer is above.
Sure, I'd like to honestly say that my values which are logically well understood would always override the ones which aren't quite so. But I couldn't.
Your second question is the corollary of your original question.
My answer is above.
Sure, I'd like to honestly say that my values which are logically well understood would always override the ones which aren't quite so. But I couldn't.
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birdofhermes
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Re: Greatest thing of all
When you're ready for the solitary path there's no other choice.
<div style="text-align:center"><hr />I'm like a bird from another continent sitting in this aviary. I didn't come here of my own accord and I can't leave that way. Whoever brought me here will have to take me home.</div>
<div style="text-align:center"><hr />I'm like a bird from another continent sitting in this aviary. I didn't come here of my own accord and I can't leave that way. Whoever brought me here will have to take me home.</div>
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ParadiseChild
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Re: Greatest thing of all
Quote:Quote:<hr>If you had a choice between the solitary path of experiencing the highest understanding of Reality and leading a communal life of great emotional happiness, which would you choose?<hr>
The communal life of emotional happiness. But I fear it is too late for me. I chose the solitary path and have hated it. Way too lonely for my temperament.
As for what I consider the greatest thing, for me at this point I would say death -- and annihilation (if that is possible). For the peace and quiet.
The communal life of emotional happiness. But I fear it is too late for me. I chose the solitary path and have hated it. Way too lonely for my temperament.
As for what I consider the greatest thing, for me at this point I would say death -- and annihilation (if that is possible). For the peace and quiet.
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David Quinn
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Re: Greatest thing of all
Dave Toast wrote:
Quote:Quote:<hr>The point was that I dare say I've aquired enough different values in this lifetime to be able to consider each and every one of your options as the greatest, according to one, the other, or some particular combination.<hr>Is this a form of multiple personality syndrome? How many Dave Toasts are there precisely?
Quote:Quote:<hr>Sure, I'd like to honestly say that my values which are logically well understood would always override the ones which aren't quite so. But I couldn't.<hr> Would you really like to be one Dave Toast only - the entirely rational one?
Quote:Quote:<hr>The point was that I dare say I've aquired enough different values in this lifetime to be able to consider each and every one of your options as the greatest, according to one, the other, or some particular combination.<hr>Is this a form of multiple personality syndrome? How many Dave Toasts are there precisely?
Quote:Quote:<hr>Sure, I'd like to honestly say that my values which are logically well understood would always override the ones which aren't quite so. But I couldn't.<hr> Would you really like to be one Dave Toast only - the entirely rational one?
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David Quinn
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Re: Greatest thing of all
Paradise Child wrote:
Quote:Quote:<hr> DQ: If you had a choice between the solitary path of experiencing the highest understanding of Reality and leading a communal life of great emotional happiness, which would you choose?
PC: The communal life of emotional happiness. But I fear it is too late for me. I chose the solitary path and have hated it. Way too lonely for my temperament. <hr> This is a startling admission for someone who calls himself, "Paradise Child". Don't you believe in paradise any longer?
Quote:Quote:<hr>As for what I consider the greatest thing, for me at this point I would say death -- and annihilation (if that is possible). For the peace and quiet.<hr> Are you going to commit suicide?
Quote:Quote:<hr> DQ: If you had a choice between the solitary path of experiencing the highest understanding of Reality and leading a communal life of great emotional happiness, which would you choose?
PC: The communal life of emotional happiness. But I fear it is too late for me. I chose the solitary path and have hated it. Way too lonely for my temperament. <hr> This is a startling admission for someone who calls himself, "Paradise Child". Don't you believe in paradise any longer?
Quote:Quote:<hr>As for what I consider the greatest thing, for me at this point I would say death -- and annihilation (if that is possible). For the peace and quiet.<hr> Are you going to commit suicide?
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Dave Toast
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Re: Greatest thing of all
Quote:Quote:<hr>DQ: Is this a form of multiple personality syndrome? How many Dave Toasts are there precisely?<hr>
Aroundabout ten thousand.
Surely you won't deny the multifaceted nature of the values of the unelightened mind?
Quote:Quote:<hr>Would you really like to be one Dave Toast only - the entirely rational one?<hr>
Most of the time, yes. Virtually all of the time in fact.
Aroundabout ten thousand.
Surely you won't deny the multifaceted nature of the values of the unelightened mind?
Quote:Quote:<hr>Would you really like to be one Dave Toast only - the entirely rational one?<hr>
Most of the time, yes. Virtually all of the time in fact.
Re: Greatest thing of all
If you had a choice between the solitary path of experiencing the highest understanding of Reality and leading a communal life of great emotional happiness, which would you choose?
If reason told me it could last till I died, then great emotional happiness. Happiness is the reality of why life does everything it does, like trying to make itself greater. All life forms seek out environments that contain a greater number of positive chemical reactions, which is just happiness relative to its form of existence. The more consciously complex the life form, the larger the skill set to undertake actions to seek out this happiness. Lol, in doing so of course they, by logical necessity, must also develop more mechanisms to negatively feel the absence of such happiness.
If there was significant doubt, then I would choose the highest understanding of Reality. I guess for most of us here, we are probably too aware of reality and will always see significant doubt in the odds of great emotional happiness lasting. We therefore emotionally turn away from that and either turn into edgy and grumpy cynics, or try and find our greatness in higher forms of consciousness, which is truth/reason/reality by another name.
From the other thread:How does asceticism relate to the spiritual path of giving up attachments? Is the person who ascetically refrains from all materialistic activities as much as possible purifying himself and heading in the direction of enlightenment? How is the path of giving up attachments to be measured?
The degree of one's enlightenment would be the ratio of pure thinking activities undertaken to those less conscious activites that involve a search for improved emotional satisfaction.
Or is he merely deviating away into a path of further self-indulgence?
Impossible to determine, although looking at the ratio on the web of somewhat insane folk who once sought out higher consciousness levels, to those whom achieved constant and consistant enlightenment, I would have to say the odds favour that one is indeed setting themselve up for further indulgence. The mere fact that seeking higher forms of consciousness using rational thinking is 100% self-indulgent activity. In affect one is trying to get more to flow through them, that is after all what consciousness does.
What do you consider to be the greatest thing of all:
My rating
1. The heady pleasure of great emotional happiness
Having never experienced enlightenment as a way-of-being I can only go on what I know. I know that long term happiness is my true desire.
2. The highest understanding of Reality
Cannot say. This form of existence seems to be limited to one joyous emotional feeling only - that of self-satisfaction in one's perceived ability to cut to the core of a matter. There is at times a large degree of safety and comfort in understanding reality, even to the mixed up degree that I do, and at other times it is the opposite.
I still think there is a strong possibility that enlightenment merely gives one a constant illusion-of-reality to refer to. What seems to happen is that after a certain amount of concentration on a single purpose, namely that of understanding the flows of the universe and humanity in a generalised manner, then that becomes a cause for submission to a self-made Leviathan. It seems to me that one only finds life liveable if they submit to a higher power. In the case of enlightenment of David's kind the Leviathan they have chosen is truth/reason/reality, for others it is other people, either singly as in via love, or in some group form, which ultimately is all religion really is.
3. Feeling safe and comfortable
Being comfortable is generally underestimated. Comfortable means either satisfaction in experiences and/or not becoming irritated and bored.
Of course, regardless of how safe and comfortable one might be, there is a never ending desire to be more safe and more comfortable, so I admit such satisfactions are always temporary.
4. Intimacy with others
This is a strong desire, but I have dropped it down the list because lasting and consistent joys from intimacy are not possible for myself. I'm too selfish to submit to the compromises required to gain intimacy.
5. Peace on earth and the material well-being of all humankind
There will never be peace on earth, unless we evolve away from emotional desires, which can only occur by changes caused by that which affect us severely, namely conflict.
Material well being is insatiable because it's emotional value to one's ego is always determined relative to the perceived material well-being of another person.
6. The exquisite bliss of the mystical experience
Mystical experiences do not exist as anything different to our ordinary emotional experiences, except for intensity. A variety of effects are merely causing the brain to be flooded with chemicals, rather than the normal casual dosage.
Edited by: jimhaz at: 6/2/05 20:28
If reason told me it could last till I died, then great emotional happiness. Happiness is the reality of why life does everything it does, like trying to make itself greater. All life forms seek out environments that contain a greater number of positive chemical reactions, which is just happiness relative to its form of existence. The more consciously complex the life form, the larger the skill set to undertake actions to seek out this happiness. Lol, in doing so of course they, by logical necessity, must also develop more mechanisms to negatively feel the absence of such happiness.
If there was significant doubt, then I would choose the highest understanding of Reality. I guess for most of us here, we are probably too aware of reality and will always see significant doubt in the odds of great emotional happiness lasting. We therefore emotionally turn away from that and either turn into edgy and grumpy cynics, or try and find our greatness in higher forms of consciousness, which is truth/reason/reality by another name.
From the other thread:How does asceticism relate to the spiritual path of giving up attachments? Is the person who ascetically refrains from all materialistic activities as much as possible purifying himself and heading in the direction of enlightenment? How is the path of giving up attachments to be measured?
The degree of one's enlightenment would be the ratio of pure thinking activities undertaken to those less conscious activites that involve a search for improved emotional satisfaction.
Or is he merely deviating away into a path of further self-indulgence?
Impossible to determine, although looking at the ratio on the web of somewhat insane folk who once sought out higher consciousness levels, to those whom achieved constant and consistant enlightenment, I would have to say the odds favour that one is indeed setting themselve up for further indulgence. The mere fact that seeking higher forms of consciousness using rational thinking is 100% self-indulgent activity. In affect one is trying to get more to flow through them, that is after all what consciousness does.
What do you consider to be the greatest thing of all:
My rating
1. The heady pleasure of great emotional happiness
Having never experienced enlightenment as a way-of-being I can only go on what I know. I know that long term happiness is my true desire.
2. The highest understanding of Reality
Cannot say. This form of existence seems to be limited to one joyous emotional feeling only - that of self-satisfaction in one's perceived ability to cut to the core of a matter. There is at times a large degree of safety and comfort in understanding reality, even to the mixed up degree that I do, and at other times it is the opposite.
I still think there is a strong possibility that enlightenment merely gives one a constant illusion-of-reality to refer to. What seems to happen is that after a certain amount of concentration on a single purpose, namely that of understanding the flows of the universe and humanity in a generalised manner, then that becomes a cause for submission to a self-made Leviathan. It seems to me that one only finds life liveable if they submit to a higher power. In the case of enlightenment of David's kind the Leviathan they have chosen is truth/reason/reality, for others it is other people, either singly as in via love, or in some group form, which ultimately is all religion really is.
3. Feeling safe and comfortable
Being comfortable is generally underestimated. Comfortable means either satisfaction in experiences and/or not becoming irritated and bored.
Of course, regardless of how safe and comfortable one might be, there is a never ending desire to be more safe and more comfortable, so I admit such satisfactions are always temporary.
4. Intimacy with others
This is a strong desire, but I have dropped it down the list because lasting and consistent joys from intimacy are not possible for myself. I'm too selfish to submit to the compromises required to gain intimacy.
5. Peace on earth and the material well-being of all humankind
There will never be peace on earth, unless we evolve away from emotional desires, which can only occur by changes caused by that which affect us severely, namely conflict.
Material well being is insatiable because it's emotional value to one's ego is always determined relative to the perceived material well-being of another person.
6. The exquisite bliss of the mystical experience
Mystical experiences do not exist as anything different to our ordinary emotional experiences, except for intensity. A variety of effects are merely causing the brain to be flooded with chemicals, rather than the normal casual dosage.
Edited by: jimhaz at: 6/2/05 20:28
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Leyla Shen
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Re: Greatest thing of all
Q: What do you consider to be the greatest thing of all:
A: The highest understanding of Reality.
Quote:Quote:<hr>If you had a choice between the solitary path of experiencing the highest understanding of Reality and leading a communal life of great emotional happiness, which would you choose? <hr>
What other quality of happiness is there, David?
A: The highest understanding of Reality.
Quote:Quote:<hr>If you had a choice between the solitary path of experiencing the highest understanding of Reality and leading a communal life of great emotional happiness, which would you choose? <hr>
What other quality of happiness is there, David?
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Greatest thing of all
David Quinn:Quote:Quote:<hr>If you had a choice between the solitary path of experiencing the highest understanding of Reality and leading a communal life of great emotional happiness, which would you choose?<hr>
This moment of choice between two options may be a bit too stylistic. One arrives at this moment of choice because of other choices made in the past which are caused by...what?
Still to find yourself on the solitary path takes paradoxically a strong will and determination since it goes against so much automatic behavior and desire. In a way it cuts into life (when life is defined as basically a communal life based on gratifications, expansion and so on).
But a strong will is fully caused too. So I'd even dare to suggest that to even enter a situation where one has such wealthy palette of consciously available considerations as described, will and determination is already the case and the mind is geared or shaped toward understanding Reality.
This moment of choice between two options may be a bit too stylistic. One arrives at this moment of choice because of other choices made in the past which are caused by...what?
Still to find yourself on the solitary path takes paradoxically a strong will and determination since it goes against so much automatic behavior and desire. In a way it cuts into life (when life is defined as basically a communal life based on gratifications, expansion and so on).
But a strong will is fully caused too. So I'd even dare to suggest that to even enter a situation where one has such wealthy palette of consciously available considerations as described, will and determination is already the case and the mind is geared or shaped toward understanding Reality.
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Dan Rowden
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Re: Greatest thing of all
To want emotional happiness is to want insanity, given that such a thing is based in delusion.
To desire insanity strikes me as kind of..........insane. Or is it that we have sufficient comtempt for reason such that we are prepared to believe in the existence of a benign form of insanity?
Dan Rowden
To desire insanity strikes me as kind of..........insane. Or is it that we have sufficient comtempt for reason such that we are prepared to believe in the existence of a benign form of insanity?
Dan Rowden
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ParadiseChild
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Re: Greatest thing of all
Quote:Quote:<hr>DQ: If you had a choice between the solitary path of experiencing the highest understanding of Reality and leading a communal life of great emotional happiness, which would you choose?
PC: The communal life of emotional happiness. But I fear it is too late for me. I chose the solitary path and have hated it. Way too lonely for my temperament.
DQ: This is a startling admission for someone who calls himself, "Paradise Child". Don't you believe in paradise any longer? <hr>
Paradise on earth (which is basically what the name refers to)? For me? No.
Quote:Quote:<hr>PC: As for what I consider the greatest thing, for me at this point I would say death -- and annihilation (if that is possible). For the peace and quiet.
DQ: Are you going to commit suicide?<hr>
Possibly.
PC: The communal life of emotional happiness. But I fear it is too late for me. I chose the solitary path and have hated it. Way too lonely for my temperament.
DQ: This is a startling admission for someone who calls himself, "Paradise Child". Don't you believe in paradise any longer? <hr>
Paradise on earth (which is basically what the name refers to)? For me? No.
Quote:Quote:<hr>PC: As for what I consider the greatest thing, for me at this point I would say death -- and annihilation (if that is possible). For the peace and quiet.
DQ: Are you going to commit suicide?<hr>
Possibly.
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David Quinn
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Re: Greatest thing of all
Paradise Child wrote:
Quote:Quote:<hr> DQ: Don't you believe in paradise any longer?
PC: Paradise on earth (which is basically what the name refers to)? For me? No. <hr> Do you believe in a paradise elsewhere?
Besides the peace and quiet of oblivion, what would constitute paradise for you?
Quote:Quote:<hr> DQ: Don't you believe in paradise any longer?
PC: Paradise on earth (which is basically what the name refers to)? For me? No. <hr> Do you believe in a paradise elsewhere?
Besides the peace and quiet of oblivion, what would constitute paradise for you?
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Leyla Shen
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Re: Greatest thing of all
I reckon you're good value, jimhaz.
Quote:Quote:<hr>I still think there is a strong possibility that enlightenment merely gives one a constant illusion-of-reality to refer to.
What seems to happen is that after a certain amount of concentration on a single purpose, namely that of understanding the flows of the universe and humanity in a generalised manner, then that becomes a cause for submission to a self-made Leviathan.
It seems to me that one only finds life liveable if they submit to a higher power.<hr>
And, within the confines of your reasoning, the test of any leviathan would be how he fairs against other leviathan. My leviathan, for instance, is better -- stronger -- than yours because he is like a magician; and yours is like a Marvin (you seen Hitchhikers, yet?). What is illusion to others is the clearest, most sober reality to him. Whilst others are standing back separately -- leviathan and leviathee -- in submissive awe and quandary, he and I are knowingly part of the trick.
Quote:Quote:<hr>I still think there is a strong possibility that enlightenment merely gives one a constant illusion-of-reality to refer to.
What seems to happen is that after a certain amount of concentration on a single purpose, namely that of understanding the flows of the universe and humanity in a generalised manner, then that becomes a cause for submission to a self-made Leviathan.
It seems to me that one only finds life liveable if they submit to a higher power.<hr>
And, within the confines of your reasoning, the test of any leviathan would be how he fairs against other leviathan. My leviathan, for instance, is better -- stronger -- than yours because he is like a magician; and yours is like a Marvin (you seen Hitchhikers, yet?). What is illusion to others is the clearest, most sober reality to him. Whilst others are standing back separately -- leviathan and leviathee -- in submissive awe and quandary, he and I are knowingly part of the trick.
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David Quinn
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Re: Greatest thing of all
Jimhaz wrote:
Quote:Quote:<hr>The mere fact that seeking higher forms of consciousness using rational thinking is 100% self-indulgent activity.<hr> That's true. Any form of conscious activity performed by the ego is self-indulgent, by its very nature. The key point is whether one's self-indulgent activity will eventually lead to an elimination of all self-indulgent activity (via wisdom), or whether it will continue spinning the same-old wheel.
Also, the more rational one becomes, the less inclined one is to seek "higher forms of consciousness", or indeed any forms of consciousness at all - laughingly dismissing them all for the illusions that they are.
Quote:Quote:<hr> I still think there is a strong possibility that enlightenment merely gives one a constant illusion-of-reality to refer to.<hr> If one is still referring to anything at all, real or otherwise, then it means one is still not enlightened.
Quote:Quote:<hr>The mere fact that seeking higher forms of consciousness using rational thinking is 100% self-indulgent activity.<hr> That's true. Any form of conscious activity performed by the ego is self-indulgent, by its very nature. The key point is whether one's self-indulgent activity will eventually lead to an elimination of all self-indulgent activity (via wisdom), or whether it will continue spinning the same-old wheel.
Also, the more rational one becomes, the less inclined one is to seek "higher forms of consciousness", or indeed any forms of consciousness at all - laughingly dismissing them all for the illusions that they are.
Quote:Quote:<hr> I still think there is a strong possibility that enlightenment merely gives one a constant illusion-of-reality to refer to.<hr> If one is still referring to anything at all, real or otherwise, then it means one is still not enlightened.
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David Quinn
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Re: Greatest thing of all
Leyla wrote:
Quote:Quote:<hr>Q: What do you consider to be the greatest thing of all:
A: The highest understanding of Reality.<hr> If you had to make the choice to sacrifice your children's lives for the sake of attaining the highest understanding of Reality, would you do it?
Quote:Quote:<hr> DQ: If you had a choice between the solitary path of experiencing the highest understanding of Reality and leading a communal life of great emotional happiness, which would you choose?
LS: What other quality of happiness is there, David? <hr> You tell me.
Quote:Quote:<hr>Q: What do you consider to be the greatest thing of all:
A: The highest understanding of Reality.<hr> If you had to make the choice to sacrifice your children's lives for the sake of attaining the highest understanding of Reality, would you do it?
Quote:Quote:<hr> DQ: If you had a choice between the solitary path of experiencing the highest understanding of Reality and leading a communal life of great emotional happiness, which would you choose?
LS: What other quality of happiness is there, David? <hr> You tell me.
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ParadiseChild
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Re: Greatest thing of all
DavidQuinn wrote:
Quote:Quote:<hr>Do you believe in a paradise elsewhere?<hr>
No. But what do my beliefs about it matter? There is or isn't. How would I know?
Quote:Quote:<hr>Besides the peace and quiet of oblivion, what would constitute paradise for you? <hr>
The communal life of emotional happiness.
Quote:Quote:<hr>Do you believe in a paradise elsewhere?<hr>
No. But what do my beliefs about it matter? There is or isn't. How would I know?
Quote:Quote:<hr>Besides the peace and quiet of oblivion, what would constitute paradise for you? <hr>
The communal life of emotional happiness.
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David Quinn
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Re: Greatest thing of all
So what stops you from entering into that?
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ParadiseChild
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Re: Greatest thing of all
Temperament. And because of it, grown a certain (solitary) way.
How can a tree that has grown by itself halfway up the side of a mountain join the forest in the valley?
I'm not accepted by the herd. I'm not acceptable.
How can a tree that has grown by itself halfway up the side of a mountain join the forest in the valley?
I'm not accepted by the herd. I'm not acceptable.
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Leyla Shen
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Re: Greatest thing of all
David asked:
Quote:Quote:<hr>If you had to make the choice to sacrifice your children's lives for the sake of attaining the highest understanding of Reality, would you do it?
<hr>
LOL. Sometimes, I need no altruistic motive to experience such a desire.
More seriously, however, I guess that depends on what you mean when you say “sacrifice your children’s lives.â€
If you are asking whether I would dutifully place them upon an altar to an omniscient, vengeful God of Reality and watch them be decapitated (or eaten by a fire-breathing dragon, or King Kong) in exchange for personal attainment, I would say no such God with any such demand exists.
If you are saying that I must abandon my children because it is impossible to attain the highest understanding of Reality whilst bearing such a demanding responsibility, my answer is, obviously, no. However, I would say that such a thing is not impossible -- very difficult, perhaps, but not impossible.
The wise do not withdraw from life upon the getting of wisdom. They function in it differently by comparison to the unwise. Being involved with life necessarily involves possession, responsibility and purpose -- things. Therefore, whilst wisdom is diametrically opposed to the condition of attachment to things, it cannot be opposed to the condition of responsibility for them.
I can -- and do -- seek the highest understanding of Reality with and through my children. Much in the same way as I seek it through you. In that way, even if I do not attain the level of the highest understanding of Reality, it yet remains the greatest thing of all to me. I reckon the highest understanding of Reality is beyond personal -- beyond ego in the most profound way. If it were not, I would not be discussing it with you -- or anyone else. Neither, indeed, would you.
Hence, I have already sacrificed my children, David -- as well as myself.
Quote:Quote:<hr>LS: What other quality of happiness is there, David?
DQ: You tell me.<hr>
I reckon by specifying “a communal life of great emotional happiness,†you allude to the idea of an ultimate happiness to found at the end of the road to enlightenment. As you know, I take issue with the lack of clarity in such matters. Happiness is happiness --what’s the emotional difference between an enlightened and unenlightened happiness? A happiness derived from communal life, or one derived from truth? Personally, I think that road ends not with happiness, but with serenity.
Quote:Quote:<hr>If you had to make the choice to sacrifice your children's lives for the sake of attaining the highest understanding of Reality, would you do it?
<hr>
LOL. Sometimes, I need no altruistic motive to experience such a desire.
More seriously, however, I guess that depends on what you mean when you say “sacrifice your children’s lives.â€
If you are asking whether I would dutifully place them upon an altar to an omniscient, vengeful God of Reality and watch them be decapitated (or eaten by a fire-breathing dragon, or King Kong) in exchange for personal attainment, I would say no such God with any such demand exists.
If you are saying that I must abandon my children because it is impossible to attain the highest understanding of Reality whilst bearing such a demanding responsibility, my answer is, obviously, no. However, I would say that such a thing is not impossible -- very difficult, perhaps, but not impossible.
The wise do not withdraw from life upon the getting of wisdom. They function in it differently by comparison to the unwise. Being involved with life necessarily involves possession, responsibility and purpose -- things. Therefore, whilst wisdom is diametrically opposed to the condition of attachment to things, it cannot be opposed to the condition of responsibility for them.
I can -- and do -- seek the highest understanding of Reality with and through my children. Much in the same way as I seek it through you. In that way, even if I do not attain the level of the highest understanding of Reality, it yet remains the greatest thing of all to me. I reckon the highest understanding of Reality is beyond personal -- beyond ego in the most profound way. If it were not, I would not be discussing it with you -- or anyone else. Neither, indeed, would you.
Hence, I have already sacrificed my children, David -- as well as myself.
Quote:Quote:<hr>LS: What other quality of happiness is there, David?
DQ: You tell me.<hr>
I reckon by specifying “a communal life of great emotional happiness,†you allude to the idea of an ultimate happiness to found at the end of the road to enlightenment. As you know, I take issue with the lack of clarity in such matters. Happiness is happiness --what’s the emotional difference between an enlightened and unenlightened happiness? A happiness derived from communal life, or one derived from truth? Personally, I think that road ends not with happiness, but with serenity.
Re: Greatest thing of all
Quote:Quote:<hr>
DavidQuinn000:
What do you consider to be the greatest thing of all?
<hr>
Realizing that there is no greatest thing.
Quote:Quote:<hr>
DavidQuinn000:
If you had a choice between the solitary path of experiencing the highest understanding of Reality and leading a communal life of great emotional happiness, which would you choose?
<hr>
I have no choice, I am choice.
What if green dragons fly from monkey butts?
What then?
DavidQuinn000:
What do you consider to be the greatest thing of all?
<hr>
Realizing that there is no greatest thing.
Quote:Quote:<hr>
DavidQuinn000:
If you had a choice between the solitary path of experiencing the highest understanding of Reality and leading a communal life of great emotional happiness, which would you choose?
<hr>
I have no choice, I am choice.
What if green dragons fly from monkey butts?
What then?
-
David Quinn
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 6:56 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
Re: Greatest thing of all
000jlj000 wrote:
Quote:Quote:<hr> DQ: What do you consider to be the greatest thing of all?
OO: Realizing that there is no greatest thing. <hr> In other words, you regard truth to be the greatest thing.
Quote:Quote:<hr> DQ: If you had a choice between the solitary path of experiencing the highest understanding of Reality and leading a communal life of great emotional happiness, which would you choose?
OO: I have no choice, I am choice.
What if green dragons fly from monkey butts?
What then? <hr> I dare say you'd have to choose to stop taking those drugs.
Quote:Quote:<hr> DQ: What do you consider to be the greatest thing of all?
OO: Realizing that there is no greatest thing. <hr> In other words, you regard truth to be the greatest thing.
Quote:Quote:<hr> DQ: If you had a choice between the solitary path of experiencing the highest understanding of Reality and leading a communal life of great emotional happiness, which would you choose?
OO: I have no choice, I am choice.
What if green dragons fly from monkey butts?
What then? <hr> I dare say you'd have to choose to stop taking those drugs.