clowns

[ashton]

if you are serious, what do you wait for? you can squark about it forever, you might as well talk celebrity gossip

[David Quinn]

Can't one do both?

Talking about spiritual matters can inspire, stimulate or provoke one into deeper, more intense searching.

-

[ashton]

only in as much as it can confuse, ostracize and delude...
like anything else

[David Quinn]

What about clarity, insight, intuitive flashes, deepening understanding, etc? Don't you ever experience these things when you read a good philosophy/spiritual book, or when you're having a stimulating or confronting conversation with others? And don't these things sometimes provide food for you to reflect on afterwards?

-

[ashton]

clarity, insight, intuitive flashes, deepening understanding, squark squark squark, spiritual cowards chew cud forever, it is a zen sickness of the intellectual.
food to reflect on afterwards? AFTERWARDS??
madness. you confuse food for food advertisements.

[Kevin Solway]

So why are you providing your own squarking, which will confuse people even further?

[David Quinn]

ashton wrote:

clarity, insight, intuitive flashes, deepening understanding, squark squark squark, spiritual cowards chew cud forever, it is a zen sickness of the intellectual.

And how do you know that?

food to reflect on afterwards? AFTERWARDS??
madness. you confuse food for food advertisements.

I meant after the conversation or after reading the book. The breakthrough into enlightenment can occur at anytime, whether it be while you are reading, conversing, or reflecting afterwards.

You're being too aggressive too early in the piece and at the moment it's not really mean anything.

-

[ashton]

And how do you know that?

religion is good example of this, also this place is good example.

I meant after the conversation or after reading the book.

someone, interested in traveling Africa, who reads tales of African journeys, will become excited by them... they may close the book and reflect on the tales, and what their own imagination did with the tales, etc.
but in regard to that person actually being a traveler in Africa, the tales can offer at most the incentive to go... and going, this is very different to just reading the tales... when just reading and talking one can squark all about one’s interest, one can cram it into ones life and be, wow, just so interested, and it’s all noise and bustle and talking and knowing more about Africa than the other guy... but if one actually buys a ticket and goes, one suddenly finds oneself alone with the interest... one needs to leave one’s securities, house, social network, reputation, etc... one’s whole life has to become the interest, it needs to be lived, not talked about, read about, thought about... but actualized. so most people interested in traveling Africa never do, they are content with reading the tales and being excited by them and knowing more about Africa than the other guy and they die with their fears.

The breakthrough into enlightenment can occur at anytime, whether it be while you are reading, conversing, or reflecting afterwards.

enlightenment is outside of 'anytime', timelines, etc. you are waiting for something that will never come, it can't come because its already here

[ashton]

So why are you providing your own squarking, which will confuse people even further?

I have never, like never ever ever, seen or heard of any other person more in need of getting laid than you.

[emma]

Ashton you have a point in a way .........You can be as spiritual as you like, or as Logical but if your life is not living that which you preach, every minute you are at best squarking. However squarking does give off the odd Eureka to go and try out in practice.Squarking broadens the mind

[David Quinn]

Ashton wrote:

KS: So why are you providing your own squarking, which will confuse people even further?

A: I have never, like never ever ever, seen or heard of any other person more in need of getting laid than you.

What an embarassingly common thing to say.

DQ: And how do you know that?

A: religion is good example of this, also this place is good example.

How do you know what goes on here is really a form of Zen sickness?

Are you trying to tell us that you are a Zen Master and therefore qualified to distinguish between what constitutes Zen sickness and what doesn't?

DQ: I meant after the conversation or after reading the book.

A: someone, interested in traveling Africa, who reads tales of African journeys, will become excited by them... they may close the book and reflect on the tales, and what their own imagination did with the tales, etc.
but in regard to that person actually being a traveler in Africa, the tales can offer at most the incentive to go... and going, this is very different to just reading the tales...

Sure, but as you say, reading these books and and conversing with others can give a person the incentive to travel to Africa. This in itself is a significant step for someone to make.

Also, finding the right direction to Africa is not so easy (i.e. the path to Truth can be very difficult to find). Reading wise books and conversing with wise people can help point people in the right direction.

when just reading and talking one can squark all about one’s interest, one can cram it into ones life and be, wow, just so interested, and it’s all noise and bustle and talking and knowing more about Africa than the other guy... but if one actually buys a ticket and goes, one suddenly finds oneself alone with the interest... one needs to leave one’s securities, house, social network, reputation, etc... one’s whole life has to become the interest, it needs to be lived, not talked about, read about, thought about... but actualized. so most people interested in traveling Africa never do, they are content with reading the tales and being excited by them and knowing more about Africa than the other guy and they die with their fears.

That's certainly true. But what makes you think that no one here has either become enlightened, or else is doing their darndest to become enlightened?

You're basically making the presumption that no one here has an inner life. Does the fact that you have started writing here mean that you suddenly have no inner life as well?

DQ: The breakthrough into enlightenment can occur at anytime, whether it be while you are reading, conversing, or reflecting afterwards.

A: enlightenment is outside of 'anytime', timelines, etc. you are waiting for something that will never come, it can't come because its already here

Oh, I see. We are all already enlightened and therefore there is nothing to do. We're all wasting our time talking about something that can never be achieved. Got it.

So what's all this business about visiting Africa then. How does that fit in?

-

[ashton]

Squarking broadens the mind

the eyes shut when the mouth squarks.

[Trevor Salyzyn]

the eyes shut when the mouth squarks.

Sounds like you're turning your own deficiencies into a rule.

[Matt Gregory]

the eyes shut when the mouth squarks.

Like a kid learning to play tennis who closes his eyes every time he hits the ball?

[ashton]

Ashton wrote:
What an embarassingly common thing to say.

hahahah
yes, i am very common, the most terribly ordinary thing, it's disgusting.
i ask you David, what good is your elevation above the common? you would you feel embarrassed upon being equated with the common, and so, i see your fears, your project self.

and i wasnt just teasing the wretched fellow... he is far from the now, like, really lost... but seriously, one night with a kind, skillful hooker, and that man might even realise himself

Are you trying to tell us that you are a Zen Master and therefore qualified to distinguish between what constitutes Zen sickness and what doesn't?

i detest masters, i know nothing of qualifications, but i have eyes. i look around here and i see many collectors of other people's insights, tragically unaware of the work they are piling on for their future selves.
i also see the authors of such insights yelling from the bank, "what do you wait for? it's just a boat, you dont need a fleet, you dont need to decorate the damned thing, just row across the river and let it sink!"

Also, finding the right direction to Africa is not so easy (i.e. the path to Truth can be very difficult to find). Reading wise books and conversing with wise people can help point people in the right direction.

there is no right direction to Africa. the path to truth is not hard to find, searching hard is the problem... when you stop searching, you realise your glasses were on your head the whole time.
reading wise books, conversations with wise people, this is foreplay... or not even, it is still just flirting in the pub.. it cannot show you yourself, it can only point you in the direction taken by the author, or conversational partner, or whatever, and this is not the way of the true man, it is the way of the worshipper, the follower.

But what makes you think that no one here has either become enlightened

yeah every now and again an enlightened person comes through here and goes more or less unrecognised, it's pathetic. the people i have seen here who claim to be enlightened are not enlightened, they are complete loons... they are like a child playing doctor who declares to a group of adults that they are a real doctor... you can try to explain their mistake but that rarely works due to their steadfast conviction, there is nothing much to do with them but pat their head and say, 'yes dear', and hope the other kids can see they are not a real doctor, lest one offers themselves to be operated upon.

or else is doing their darndest to become enlightened?

the desire for enlightenment is the funniest irony out there. can nobody here see this dog chasing it's tail?

You're basically making the presumption that no one here has an inner life.

nah, people here have an inner life... but for the most part i see it managed and arranged for little more than providing the supports for a certain desired exterior, one that provides for small wants etc such as looking like you know what you are on about and knowing more about Africa than the other guy.
this temple is mucky, you have traded family connections and caste systems for intellectual muscle and semantic cleverness, and so your karma is the curse of perceiving yourself as being outside of the ordinary and common, which is where you actually are, where everything and nothing is... and if you really do seek truth, it is thus where you long to be... tragic shit man, is hard to watch.

you are waiting for something that will never come, it can't come because its already here

Oh, I see. We are all already enlightened and therefore there is nothing to do.

sure.. nothing to do but practice doing nothing, but that can't count now can it? what is that strange thing that cannot count there without breaking it's house? could it be... no.. no it can't be, it's way too ordinary...

We're all wasting our time talking about something that can never be achieved. Got it.

you cannot waste your time, you are always doing exactly what you want.
you don't want to realise yourself as much as you want to feel smart... this is why you collect and make ideas and carry them around with you, this is a hinderance for just looking with unadulterated eyes... what are you if you are dependant on even a scrap of this baggage? outside your clever mind and without your library of spiritual pornography, are your feet solid enough to stand on?

So what's all this business about visiting Africa then. How does that fit in?

that was a topic-specific analogy, it wasn't going to survive long outside it's element.

[ashton]

the eyes shut when the mouth squarks.

Sounds like you're turning your own deficiencies into a rule.

the eyes shut when the mouth squarks.

[David Quinn]

ashton wrote:

DQ: What an embarassingly common thing to say.

A: hahahah
yes, i am very common, the most terribly ordinary thing, it's disgusting.

If you're not disgusted at being associated with the lowest-common denominator, then there is something seriously wrong.

DQ: Are you trying to tell us that you are a Zen Master and therefore qualified to distinguish between what constitutes Zen sickness and what doesn't?

A: i detest masters, i know nothing of qualifications, but i have eyes. i look around here and i see many collectors of other people's insights, tragically unaware of the work they are piling on for their future selves.

You're being evasive. You're definitely presenting yourself as an enlightened being (as a "Zen Master") and making judgments upon us all.

That wouldn't be so bad, but you are making these judgments in a very bland, generic, indiscriminate way. It is very easy to hide behind Zen scripts and pour forth generic judgments into a vacuum. If anything can be considered "squarking", this would be it.

DQ: Also, finding the right direction to Africa is not so easy (i.e. the path to Truth can be very difficult to find). Reading wise books and conversing with wise people can help point people in the right direction.

A: there is no right direction to Africa. the path to truth is not hard to find, searching hard is the problem... when you stop searching, you realise your glasses were on your head the whole time.

Are you advising people to search hard, or to stop searching altogether?

reading wise books, conversations with wise people, this is foreplay... or not even, it is still just flirting in the pub.. it cannot show you yourself, it can only point you in the direction taken by the author, or conversational partner, or whatever, and this is not the way of the true man, it is the way of the worshipper, the follower.

It can be, but it depends on each individual involved. Again, you're taking the easy way out by making generic statements into a vacuum, without bothering to target the specifics of what is going on here. This is starting to sound very familiar .....

DQ: But what makes you think that no one here has either become enlightened

A: yeah every now and again an enlightened person comes through here and goes more or less unrecognised, it's pathetic.

You mean, like frank?

Why do I get the impression that you are frank in disguise? Perhaps it is because, underlying the stylistic differences, your views are identical to his. Perhaps it is because, like frank's, I find ashton's mode of expression rather contrived and laboured. Perhaps it's because both frank and ashton like to hide behind the same "do nothing/empty and meaningless" facade and mash everything else into one homogenous lump.

Very clever, frank. You can go away now, there's a good fellow.

-

[ashton]

Very clever, frank.

dude i am not 'Frank'.
haha

If you're not disgusted at being associated with the lowest-common denominator, then there is something seriously wrong.

only for my ego mate. is funny, cause i see this type of thought as BEING the lowest common denominator... so squanderous, lazy, selfishly ugly.. and it's secret root, this terrified clambering for self-esteem, man, it is so retarded. it is a stroke of luck you are not a wealthy man, money would have sated you.
are you really apart from anything david?

You're being evasive. You're definitely presenting yourself as an enlightened being (as a "Zen Master") and making judgments upon us all.

hate to break it to you mate, but outside of illusion, there is no enlightenment. after all your study, you talk in idiot speak still... so when i talk of what i see, you attribute me evasiveness and so forth, because i can't just be saying what i see, surely not, because you know well that the earth is flat.

It is very easy to hide behind Zen scripts and pour forth generic judgments into a vacuum. If anything can be considered "squarking", this would be it.

i am not hiding behind anything, and i am not pointing myself at a vacuum. but yeah, thats what i meant by squarking too, more or less. maybe change 'zen scripts' for 'cleverness', something like this.

Are you advising people to search hard, or to stop searching altogether?

neither.

It can be, but it depends on each individual involved. Again, you're taking the easy way out by making generic statements into a vacuum, without bothering to target the specifics of what is going on here. This is starting to sound very familiar .....

see here, here you start to think that i am this Frank fellow, and this makes you feel clever... so everything you think after this, needs to accord with your idea that you are so happy with... haha, so foolish

[David Quinn]

ashton wrote:

DQ: Very clever, frank.

A: dude i am not 'Frank'.
haha

I can't prove it as yet. You certainly seem to come from the same factory as him. But then again, they are churning out millions of them at the moment.

DQ: If you're not disgusted at being associated with the lowest-common denominator, then there is something seriously wrong.

A: only for my ego mate. is funny, cause i see this type of thought as BEING the lowest common denominator... so squanderous, lazy, selfishly ugly.. and it's secret root, this terrified clambering for self-esteem, man, it is so retarded.

What about your pretence that you are above everyone on this forum, and that everyone here is a fool bar you? Shall we also categorize this as a "terrified clambering for self-esteem"?

Why are you allowed to assert your views with impunity, while no one else is? Why is your speech a case of "telling it like it is", while everyone is merely "squarking"? Aren't you being a hypocrite?

DQ: You're being evasive. You're definitely presenting yourself as an enlightened being (as a "Zen Master") and making judgments upon us all.

A: hate to break it to you mate, but outside of illusion, there is no enlightenment.

Then why are you pretending to be beyond illusion?

-

[ashton]

I can't prove it as yet. You certainly seem to come from the same factory as him. But then again, they are churning out millions of them at the moment.

who is churning what out?

What about your pretence that you are above everyone on this forum, and that everyone here is a fool bar you? Shall we also categorize this as a "terrified clambering for self-esteem"?

hey, i never said i was not a fool.
'above everyone' etc, this is your language, your frame of reference, not mine.

Why are you allowed to assert your views with impunity, while no one else is?

how wonderfully feminine of you, to assume that because i speak with authority, you must argue your point as a submissive.

Why is your speech a case of "telling it like it is", while everyone is merely "squarking"? Aren't you being a hypocrite?

haven't you asked yourself these questions yet?

Then why are you pretending to be beyond illusion?

this is the illusion, what we are doing here, this is it... beyond the illusion there is no you, me, so how could 'i' be there? twit.

[emma]

If you think its all illusion and that there is nothing else, you are clearly an illusionist. This makes you forked-tongued, and quite happy to deceive others ........Frightening!

This is not an illusion, this is the time of preparation for what comes next.......whatever that might be ...You are not preparing very well are you....but do not be alarmed ..

I am an emotional God-believer, but on this forum I get to hear opposite and lateral views. These are often incorporated into my thinking and I develop.
Go to Africa on a whim and you will miss much, think, reflect and consider before you travel and you might not miss so much

[ashton]

This is not an illusion, this is the time of preparation for what comes next.......whatever that might be ...You are not preparing very well are you....but do not be alarmed ..

hahahahahha

hahahahha
haha

[David Quinn]

Ashton wrote:

DQ: I can't prove it as yet. You certainly seem to come from the same factory as him. But then again, they are churning out millions of them at the moment.

A: who is churning what out?

Society is currently churning out zillions of postmodernist clones who believe there is no truth, no enlightenment, everything is subjective, everything is relative, everything is uncertain, etc. It is the dominant mythology of our times and you give every impression of having swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

DQ: What about your pretence that you are above everyone on this forum, and that everyone here is a fool bar you? Shall we also categorize this as a "terrified clambering for self-esteem"?

A: hey, i never said i was not a fool.

Actions speak louder than words. Every aspect of your behaviour screams of a self-righteous, holier-than-thou attitude. But it seems you have a mental block about it.

'above everyone' etc, this is your language, your frame of reference, not mine.

You have accused everyone here of squarking like parrots, implicitly implying that you are above this.

DQ: Why is your speech a case of "telling it like it is", while everyone is merely "squarking"? Aren't you being a hypocrite?

A: haven't you asked yourself these questions yet?

I haven't blanketly accused everyone of squarking like parrots. This is your own brand of hypocrisy, not anyone else's.

DQ: Then why are you pretending to be beyond illusion?

A: this is the illusion, what we are doing here, this is it... beyond the illusion there is no you, me, so how could 'i' be there? twit.

Let me ask you a serious question, then: Is your view that "beyond the illusion there is no you, me" itself an illusion? Or is it the truth?

-

[ashton]

Society is currently churning out zillions of postmodernist clones...

man you talk crap, you probably say this to everyone. you boast about your blinkers.

no truth, no enlightenment, everything is subjective, everything is relative, everything is uncertain, etc....
It is the dominant mythology of our times

hahahhaha
our times you say

A: hey, i never said i was not a fool.

Actions speak louder than words.

you flatter me, but i am ok with being a fool.

Every aspect of your behaviour screams of a self-righteous, holier-than-thou attitude. But it seems you have a mental block about it.

hahah
given how you present yourself, this comment is too absurd to even attempt to address, i cant do it, you ask too much

You have accused everyone here of squarking like parrots, implicitly implying that you are above this.

dude you are a total logic whore. and your logic is whack.
hahah parrots yeah

I haven't blanketly accused everyone of squarking like parrots. This is your own brand of hypocrisy, not anyone else's.

haha parrots for sure
whose brand of hypocrisy do you expect me to use? who here can speak the truth?

Let me ask you a serious question, then: Is your view that "beyond the illusion there is no you, me" itself an illusion? Or is it the truth?

man, the earth is not flat..
ok we speak idiot then.. perhaps it is closest to the truth to say it is illusion, david, for how could it be anything else, but your question is in error because truth includes illusion, why can't you see this, boy, this is easy, even your blessed logic can get you there

[spiritual_emergency]

Society is currently churning out zillions of postmodernist clones who believe there is no truth, no enlightenment, everything is subjective, everything is relative, everything is uncertain, etc. It is the dominant mythology of our times and you give every impression of having swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

The cost of entering the space you wish to enter is everything. Do you see that you would have to give up all these beliefs you hold to be so precious and true? You grapple to a knowledge of Everything when you should wish to know only Nothing. You have built your own prison and the prison must be dismantled. Everything must be stripped away, willingly or unwillingly.

There is a way out of this trap. Run directly into that which most terrifies you. In your case, death will surely be a woman.

See also: Would it kill David to...