on consciousness

[bert]

Bert:

I am the power of my desire (Id).

The Id doesn't care about reality, about the needs of anyone else, only its own satisfaction.


What if God were not exactly truth, and if this could be proved? And if he were instead the vanity, the desire for power, the ambitions, the fear, and the enraptured and terrified folly of mankind? (Nietzsche, 1890)

frank

how fantastic it is I write this on this board:

certain maudlin literati gibly assert the acceptance of reality as fulness and finality,and the 'surrealists' just as gibly assert the opposite.but we are a kind of mental and actual symbiosis.how much of reality should we accept and of what kind - for to accept the whole is impossible?there is a constant suffling of the extrovertive and introvertive as reality and non-reality,and all values and levels are rejection of much more.

at birth the Ids are immoral and wild,but everything has 'environment' and is the most potent of all.whether environment is good or bad,it is our inescapable nemesis.
and these fundamentals are in constant impact creating experience,and form our individuality.

the Ids are the indirect potent of reality.and reality is your only truth and he that be-lives his truth can create a reality.the impact of flesh is all consciousness,and pleasure has no fear.
to become your reality is also the means to the Ideal.

this' my allowing word.

[R. Steven Coyle]

:)

The roads we must cross in order to acheive the Ideal, have only ever been the roads of our own mind.

[frank]

Well, let your Id rip at full throttle for a while and see what happens...you'll probably find you need to get a bit cunning and strap on an Ego...you're always gonna run into a bigger Id...

The ego is based on the reality principle. The ego understands that other people have needs and desires and that sometimes being impulsive or selfish can hurt us in the long run. Its the ego's job to meet the needs of the id, while taking into consideration the reality of the situation.

The guy Freud ripped off the Id idea from had it languaged as the It...hahaha

frank

[bert]

I believe in the eternity of Ego,whatever its fluctuations.

I agree that man has become intoxicated,that patho-psychology has birted a frankenstein.and that certain fixations are dangerous.
I definately see the necessity of the "I",it all is here,and I don't deny it.
it belongs to "will to pleasure".

these are the 'Ids':self-protection,nutrition and sensation.and they have spawned mythologies,ideologies,lies,half-thruts,frustrations,and still do.and they are blinding us.and they have created their own good and evil through this.and we are all subject to them.
but,when Death,as the "unmodified I" in the sensation of omnipresensce,we are pure in our wisdom of soundsleep,see our selves outside ourself,and the Soul has no language,but gives us instincts towards rightness and virtue.
don't laugh to hard with Freud,he said some things really full of crap,but wasn't that stupid.the Ids are the objective of life.
"the real is an epiphenomenon of thought,a result of non-thought, a phenomenon of amnesia.the true real is within us and we project it." - salvador dali

then again,Robbie Williams sing in his new single:
"Sin sin sin
Look where we've been
And where we are tonight
Hate the sin not the sinner
I'm just after a glimmer
Of love and light
Deep inside "
yet,those of real ability count their consumations as still lacking,hence they are always learning.
the beginning of wisdom:"wouldst thou be virtuous?Then search out thine own evil"(- Epictetus)
maybe you want to rebuilt your reality?
steven said on another topic:Certain Taoists also believe in magic. Lao Tzu said something to the effect: "The will, when combined with virtue, allows for the Universe to follow the sage."
even the childish movie "catwoman" with the speaking slogan - "the day I died was the day that I started to live",gives a revealing insight of the progressive process to become what nietzsche refered to as 'superman',or,crowley's 'Kingly man' and baudelaire's 'dandy'.

[frank]

Bert wrote:

these are the 'Ids':self-protection,nutrition and sensation.and they have spawned mythologies,ideologies,lies,half-thruts,frustrations,and still do.and they are blinding us.and they have created their own good and evil through this.and we are all subject to them.

Life necessitates three kinds of activity: to assure its survival, its means of existence, and its nourishment; to realise its reproduction according to forms of activity generally connected with sexuality; and, lastly, to establish rules of behaviour that allow different individuals to perform their roles within the framework of the species. In human society, this is represented as three necessities, three aims of life: material goods (artha) assure survival; erotic practice (kama) assures the transmission of life; and rules of behaviour, a moral nature (dharma), assure the cohesion and duration of the species. (from the Ancient Indian philosophy Kamasutra)...

Sure, the Id 'drives' Humans with a Social Instinct, a Financial Instinct, a Sexual Instinct...
I would have thought these 'drives' unified would constitute an urge to Survive..

The 'pleasure' would be derived from the Ego's power to 'deliver ' satisfaction of these desires wouldn't it?

I 'see' the emotions as working something like this:

Feeling Joy...............Winning, something got satisfied.

Feeling Anger............Must apply strong 'force' here or loss will occur.

Feeling Sad...............Something was Lost.

Feeling Fear..............Win impossible, total annhilation imminent, gotta run.

The emotions being like a barometer of how the ambition in the matter is proceeding...

"The will, when combined with virtue, allows for the Universe to follow the sage."

That's a Class Act.

frank

[bert]

Sure, the Id 'drives' Humans with a Social Instinct, a Financial Instinct, a Sexual Instinct...
I would have thought these 'drives' unified would constitute an urge to Survive..

The 'pleasure' would be derived from the Ego's power to 'deliver ' satisfaction of these desires wouldn't it?

pleasure is derived from thy love for Self.and you can show it no greater than giving up all you believe.
he is akin to the great purpose,his actions explained for him,good seen of his evil,without knowing,everyone satisfied with his will.

when the Ego sees Self-love - there is peace - it becomes the seer.directly we desire,we have lost all;"we are" what we desire,therefore we never obtain.desire nothing,and there is nothing that you shall not realise.desire is for completion,the inherent emotion that it is "all happiness",all wisdom,in constant harmony.but directly we believe,we are liars - and become identified with pain,yet pain and pleasure are one and the same.

Quote:
"The will, when combined with virtue, allows for the Universe to follow the sage."


That's a Class Act.

I think this is its creed:
I am God,and all other gods are imagery.I gave birth to myself.

I am inconceivable,because I make the conceivable as I will.

I am beyond law,for my casualness rationalizes all things to my pleasure.

I am the stranger,ever

this was very popular in ancient Egypt,and with Lao Tzu,Socrates,Pythagoras,...they who have substantiated their beliefs

other details I will not spread on a forum.