I don't think my judgements are always correct. I could be wrong, and maybe David Quinn is enlightened. I was thinking about that the other day while driving around town. But what does it matter?'I am unenlightened'....
'I can correctly describe enlightenment'....
'My judgements upon who is or isn't enlightened are correct'...
Is this your drift?
It doesn't.But what does it matter?
Nah, that's called: making it up as one goes along.Frank wrote:The true spirit of Post Modernism was meant to be 'open-minded to Meaning wherever it sprung from'...
There is no 'intense connection' without at least some observation and logic to see the connecting going on. Science at the core is not much different but more formalized.Frank wrote:Science, thinking the Universe is an artifact with which you can cut this out and cut that out without consequences...could mean doom for us...
Philosophers can contribute Wisdom...the Wisdom of the intense connection of Things...
A lot of wounding sometimes before one gets to the real cut.Frank wrote:Just that lexicon thang masculinity/femininity wounds rather than heals...delusion, ignorance/ wisdom could be interchanged.
Love is transformation. Perhaps two words for the same? And it transforms toward the object of love.Frank wrote:Philosophy is meant to 'transform' rather than possibly ridicule..
Wisdom cannot help but radiating, and understanding cannot help but breeding compassion. But it also brings the sword, divides families, upsets power brokers and shocks hypocrites. A shepherd is not much like his sheep, though he understands their language, their needs and fears.Frank wrote:Philosophy is best dressed and most effective in a Language of Kindness and Compassion and Connection which best reflects it's essential Message.
Certainty when it comes to appearances might be impossible but one has to take ones best stab at it. And live or die accordingly. And since you write later on that self-awareness is nothing other than another appearance, are you saying here that there cannot be certainty about anything at all? Any degrees perhaps here? What about working assumptions?Sue hindmarsh wrote:Sue wrote:For example: I used to keep in a cage a fake budgie which was always being mistaken as a real one.Diebert wrote:The important thing here is that you knew it was fake and you observed others being mistaken about it, or appearing to be.Sue wrote:It appeared fake to me, but it is impossible for me to be certain if it was real, or fake.
Of course. And it appears to be also true that one tries to improve chances on survival with every breath one takes. Perhaps no absolute truth but the wise will work with it as a given nevertheless.Sue wrote:The people who use the fake budgie to go down into the mine will die. They were caused to see the fake budgie as real. The miners that take a real budgie down the mine have a greater chance of survival, but they too are caused. Either way, both scenarios are but the whim of Nature.
I think the delusion starts when there is not enough drive to truth, to differentiate one appearance from another and therefore correctly relate them. Self-awareness of a sage is as appearance not equal to the awareness of a slug getting aware of another slug in the yard. The difference is valued, only by the sage of course, by a whim of Nature.Sue wrote:A “delusional process of observation†is to consider “self-awareness†to be anything other than an appearance.
That understanding is also an abstract residing in your mind. Since you claim you cannot know anything outside the mind, how can you tell where the minds starts or ends? To have a border, one has to accept a reality outside the mind. To not have a border means the mind is the universe but we're back to where we started since we know only a little of the content of our mind.Sue wrote:All we have is the abstract world of the mind: therefore, it is the only reality we can ever know.
Depends where you think your mind ends.Sue wrote:Is the moon that can’t be known in its “fullness†outside our minds?
In the absence of Absolute Truth...Frank wrote:
The true spirit of Post Modernism was meant to be 'open-minded to Meaning wherever it sprung from'...
Diebert wrote:
Nah, that's called: making it up as one goes along.
'Mad' Scientists want to play with 'things'...like a kid in a chemistry class...consequences seem to be of secondary importance.There is no 'intense connection' without at least some observation and logic to see the connecting going on. Science at the core is not much different but more formalized.
There is pain and confusion as one separates from the Cultural Conditioning forced on one as a Child.A lot of wounding sometimes before one gets to the real cut.
Love transforms as Philosophy does.Love is transformation. Perhaps two words for the same? And it transforms toward the object of love.
Wisdom doesn't divide families per se...it divides co-dependance in families...Wisdom cannot help but radiating, and understanding cannot help but breeding compassion. But it also brings the sword, divides families, upsets power brokers and shocks hypocrites. A shepherd is not much like his sheep, though he understands their language, their needs and fears.
We can be certain that what appears to us; appears to us. We can also be certain that the budgies fakeness or realness is uncertain, as we can never experience anything other than our mental world. We can’t in any way control what appears to us, therefore the best we can do is work with what comes up.Certainty when it comes to appearances might be impossible but one has to take ones best stab at it. And live or die accordingly. And since you write later on that self-awareness is nothing other than another appearance, are you saying here that there cannot be certainty about anything at all? Any degrees perhaps here? What about working assumptions?Sue: It appeared fake to me, but it is impossible for me to be certain if it was real, or fake.
I’m not sure what you’re driving at. Are you saying that a wise person believes in a self that strives to survive?Of course. And it appears to be also true that one tries to improve chances on survival with every breath one takes. Perhaps no absolute truth but the wise will work with it as a given nevertheless.
Yes, a mind that is free from all prejudice, emotion and egotism simply apprehends the truth of each moment as it arises. Most people are not able to do this, because their attachments muddy their vision.I think the delusion starts when there is not enough drive to truth, to differentiate one appearance from another and therefore correctly relate them.Sue: A “delusional process of observation†is to consider “self-awareness†to be anything other than an appearance.
Being able to consciously differentiate between what is true and what is delusional is valued by the sage only because he values Truth above all else. The slug, though unconscious, is above most humans in that it acts in accordance with Nature, and doesn’t make things what they are not.Self-awareness of a sage is as appearance not equal to the awareness of a slug getting aware of another slug in the yard. The difference is valued, only by the sage of course, by a whim of Nature.
The existence of the mind as a thing depends on causality; but because of this same causality, ‘the mind’ cannot exist. Using this knowledge, we can understand all there is to know about the mind, as well as everything else in the universe – since everything just boils down to causes.That understanding is also an abstract residing in your mind. Since you claim you cannot know anything outside the mind, how can you tell where the minds starts or ends? To have a border, one has to accept a reality outside the mind. To not have a border means the mind is the universe but we're back to where we started since we know only a little of the content of our mind.Sue: All we have is the abstract world of the mind: therefore, it is the only reality we can ever know.
If the mind had a beginning and an end, that is: if it existed independently from everything else in the universe, it wouldn’t be able to interact with anything; making it useless at the job it does now. Only causally can it do all that it does, which means that it has neither a beginning, nor an end.Depends where you think your mind ends.Sue: Is the moon that can’t be known in its “fullness†outside our minds?