The value of philosophy.

[Jamesh]

Ok, I see what has happened.

I looked at your profile and noticed posts from Feb, what I didn't notice is that they were Feb, 2004 and stored in the archive.

I'm jimhaz. We were never particularly friendly with each other -you were too much in love with the concept of love - but at times I liked the way you used to word quips (the sort of thing that got you expelled previously).

[Jamesh]

I am taking a sabbatical to work on sorting out dental issues (then I'll get my teeth into philosophy).

Too much teeth grinding most probably - ohh the great joys of seeking enlightenment !!

[Kelly Jones]

No, without the testing and striving, I wouldn't have found out the flaws. I have "spiritual osteoporosis", but I'm in much better shape now to deal with the damage. For the first time in my life, I'm looking at what my life really is, and what needs to be fixed.

It's better I stay off the forum, to avoid getting side-tracked by the majority of its members, who haven't healed, and cannot help but try to detour me. There is plenty of help to be had, if you can help yourself to look for it. Good luck to you all, and look after yourselves.


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[suergaz]

Hi Jimhaz! You may not like me, but I came away liking you, and (this is embarrassing) everyone I met here. (I understand this makes my taste in all matters highly questionable.)

Kelly, best wishes to you too.

[Jamesh]

I don't dislike you. I got annoyed with you at times - but I get annoyed with everyone at different times. Like Kevin said above it would be preferable if you offered more than smart quips at least some of the time - you are smart enough to do so.

There were a few times I wondered if you were still alive. Most "ordinary" folk would consider my life a nightmare and I think they'd feel the same way about yours - having what seemed to be a kind of directional-lessness together with the isolation of unemployment can't be very uplifting. I lack direction as well - but work helps to break the boredom.

[suergaz]

Aren't we without apparent direction on the way to ourselves? Haven't we always been? Do we have time for what is preferred from us? Aren't we ourselves best equipped to know what is preferred of us before any who cannot help but express their preferences in regard to us? What is a quip to us and why may it mean so much or so little to those who'd like to know us better than we know ourselves?

Why, Jamesh? Why?!

:D

[Avicenna]

Hi Avicenna,

I don't think we've had an Indonesian on here before, so you've sparked my interest. What's it like to be a philosophical person in Indonesia? Is there much freedom to express your thought over there?

I like to think about deep philosophical issues and that to many person around

me--hardly convenient. Most Indonesian people still cling to their old tradition and

mithology, and superstition. It's a pre-scientific society where--for instance--they

still believe in traditional healer rather than doctor (btw, we called it 'alternative

medicine'). Many people went to 'dukun' (english: shaman), went to grave, in order get

some divine inspiration, luck, good fortune, or blessing. Of course, most of indonesian

people believe sincerely that we are religous nation with over 90% of the population has

religion mostly Islam. But, our religion is not 'pure'. Religions in Indonesia is mostly

the synthetic between religion and old tradition. So most people practice their religion

but they also practice old custom.

They welcome philosophical (if it was meant to be mystical or metaphysical) thought as

long it doesn't challenge and promote their former held beliefs. I can talk about

philosophy of whatever tradition or custom but not challenge it. Usually, they just

dismissed it with words like 'You better not talk about it... It's not wise to question

our tradition... You should respect our tradition and question it publicly and so on so

on...'

On the other side, we are the country only eight years ago that at last escape the

thirty two years authoritarian government of Soeharto Regime (or called 'Orde Baru'-'New

Order'). During the new order era, there isn't such things as freedom of thought,

speech, or expression. The government oppressed everything that threatens its power. And

because superstitious believe can be used to support the regime, the government let our

people with their traditional minds and custom. Our country even has a law that

prohibits the teachings of marxism, leninism, and communism.

The new order is a government that raised from the terror of failed coup de etat by

Indonesian Communist Party (PKI) . New order used religion and nationalism to oppress

the communists. Even now, there is a wide-held belief that communists are people without

religion, communists equal atheists and atheists equal communists. for 32 years there is

a silent terror created by the government and perpetuated by society that communists is

evil consequently atheists is evil.

But the regime is over eight years ago. I was at highschool when the regime fall. My

mind open when I attend universities. Now, I know how deep the damage done by old

regime. My interests in philosophy grew. I attend philosophical debate, I read books.

Whenever I talk about God and questioning Its existence, there is a stigma that I am

'Leftist', 'Communist', and 'Atheist'. To many people whom I met, it's a kind of

psychological barrier. I only tell myself, 'What can you expect from people who belief

that they are religious, good, benevolent and their country is also religious'.

About a year ago, I saw a banner written (in english) 'Beware the danger of Atheism'.

Its written by some Islamic Organization in response to many publication of leftist

books and discussion about God in universities (especially Islamic Universities). Any

person who tries to challenge wide held beliefs even now is under threats from many-many

groups.

I think there is still not much room in public to practice free thought and free speech.

The free-thinker is banished to the corners of universities or small discussion groups.

Freedom of thought is rare in universities where I suppose there is somekind of freedom.

It feels lonely here. Only few friends understand. My family do not understand. I was born in islamic family in a country with over 80% population held Islam as religion and I am an atheist. Even among the few friends, only two I know states clearly that they are atheists. The others, they respect my belief but they still belief in god and seldomly practice their religion. Now, I am an atheist for almost three years after 20 years having faith in Islam.

What do you mean by an explosion exactly, when you read Nietzsche and Kierkegaard? Are you referring to some kind of opening up of consciousness? What do you mean by reason and emotion "bursting"?

And don't worry, your English seems fine to me.
-

when I read nietzsche or kierkegaard, my reason are triggered. I feel that there is very-very much power of reason in me that needs to be awakened. I feel that reason doesn't have any limit. That's the explosion. By emotion, I feel anger, sadness, pain. Anger that for most of my time I was ignorant about many things, sad that I am in state of suffering and it hurts. Burst is a metaphor I chose because I feel more alive. I've actualized the potentiality of my reason and emotion. I am one step away from the state of stupidity and ignorance. Through nietzsche and kierkegaard's writings, I can feel the humanity at its best and worst states.