The Female Explorer

[kjones]

Re: Talking to women about philosophy

One of the main reasons why discussing Truth with a woman is futile is because she has at her disposal too many ‘outs’. As we know, woman is a parasite, gaining her goals and ideas from whatever happens to be nearby. This way, she doesn’t need to have a mind of her own, and is free to flow from one thing to another, unhindered. So if you mention, for example, that becoming Wise means the death of the ego and the end of suffering, she will more than likely nod and say something like, “Yes, that sounds okay, but is it really necessary?”. After which, she’ll wander off onto some other topic, such as; the importance of compassion, or the amazing discoveries made in quantum mechanics.

She can hear the words, she can even see that you are serious and passionate, but the meaning of the words can’t touch her, because she doesn’t need them. Suffering and ego, truth and wisdom - she knows all these things through and through. She is filled to the brim with words like those; she has experienced all of them ‘first hand’. Having no mind means that nothing sticks; no one thing is more important than another thing. This way, she is able to immediately experience other people’s thoughts and ideas as if they were her own. Anything she requires to bring her comfort and happiness, just floats to the surface, like a bubble on a puddle.

Sue

Why do women have so many outs at their disposal? Why is this "unhindered flowing" so good?

Why are there so many "spiritual healers" and artists among women?

Why are there so few female explorers, if any?

Why does a woman agree so much, or remain silent, only later revealing she has forgotten what you were talking about, or was so overcome by questions, she couldn't form an interjection?

Why don't women engage in reasoning about what they're unfamiliar with?

Why do women read so much?

Why do women talk so much, or not much at all, about themselves?

Why do women have so many words, yet so little computation?

Why do women emphasis compassion and commiseration, rather than judgment and problem-solving? Why is this so good for them?

Why do men put up with this parasite, when they are much better at problem-solving themselves?

How come it's everyone else's fault, to a woman, and only a few people's fault, to a man?

Why don't women think?

Are there any illiterate, lone, unsociable female pioneers?

Why do women like to obey?

Why are there problems, bad things, evil, everywhere for a woman, and not so for a man?

How is it a man can be engaged in months of seven-days-a-week full-time work, in which he's personally endangered, disempowered, technically engaged, mind-numbed, cogged-in-a-wheel, but still be standing intellectually, fresh and capable of engaging in abstract reasoning, at the end of each day? Can a woman do this? Why do men think they must do this? Why do men think instinct is so important?


Kelly

[Cory Duchesne]

Why are you one of the few woman who realize that this is 'generally' the case?

I think woman read so much for the same reason that I (a male) read so much. It hurts to not be unoccupied with something. There is such a tremendous drive, an urge to consume some sort of product, whether it is a book, drug, drink, television show, film, music. To do nothing, to sit and study oneself is painful. Why is it painful? Because we are lonely.......we are terribly frightened of missing out on life. Or we truly experience ourselves as someone who is missing out on what we assume to be life --- so the pain of that rationalization, that reality, drives us to absorb ourselves in a book. To escape.

It is all to escape life. Almost everything a human does is to escape from the fact of his/her inner poverty.

However, maybe you could elaborate a bit?

[N0X23]

Why do women have so many outs at their disposal? Why is this "unhindered flowing" so good?

Why are there so many "spiritual healers" and artists among women.......Argumentum ad Nauseam

Why are you such a self-loathing egomaniac?

[kjones]

Why do women have so many outs at their disposal? Why is this "unhindered flowing" so good?

Why are there so many "spiritual healers" and artists among women.......Argumentum ad Nauseam

Why are you such a self-loathing egomaniac?

Well, of course it's ultimately for the same "reason". When I talk of how loathsome women are, that's because I want to find out why these loathsome things arise. By judging it all accurately, my ego is built up enough to think deeply about the painful things it would rather avoid - like Cory mentions.

It's a kind of tantric meditation. By looking at the way women operate in the world, and figuring them out, I become highly experienced with the nature of woman. My ego-radar advances in sensitivity. I learn to catch false moves on the fly. This is not with any woman's help, by any means, since they're too vague on the subject.

What do you think of this approach, Nox?

Kelly

[kjones]

Why are you one of the few woman who realize that this is 'generally' the case?

I'm an alien looking at men and women, and wondering how women have come to be so inferior to men. God made me do it.

I think woman read so much for the same reason that I (a male) read so much. It hurts to not be unoccupied with something....It is all to escape life. Almost everything a human does is to escape from the fact of his/her inner poverty.

Ok, so women (plus you, and, more often than desired, me) spend so much time flowing around ignoring any depth of thought, because they REALLY want to escape awareness of this absence of depth of thought.

Silly, huh. Really really silly.

However, maybe you could elaborate a bit?

No, no, that would be bad for you.


Kelly

[DHodges]

To do nothing, to sit and study oneself is painful. Why is it painful? Because we are lonely.......we are terribly frightened of missing out on life. Or we truly experience ourselves as someone who is missing out on what we assume to be life --- so the pain of that rationalization, that reality, drives us to absorb ourselves in a book. To escape.

I've heard people say things to that effect before, but it is not the way I experience life.

[Cory Duchesne]

Cory wrote:

so the pain of that rationalization, that reality, drives us to absorb ourselves in a book. To escape.

Dhodges replied:

I've heard people say things to that effect before, but it is not the way I experience life.

Dhodges,

Why don't you share with us 'how you experience life'?

If you are not going to at least make an attempt at being didactic in your speach, what is the point in your speaking? What I am getting at is, it is admirable to oppose the current and be contrary. However, if you do so without pointing to something beyond the limitations of the simple act of stating you are different......then you come across as dull and frightened. Perhaps you agree with me on this and you are very open to exposing what you have concealed. I would like hear from you. Especially if it is an intelligent rebuke of me.

Ok, so women (plus you, and, more often than desired, me) spend so much time flowing around ignoring any depth of thought, because they REALLY want to escape awareness of this absence of depth of thought.

Silly, huh. Really really silly.

Well, of course it is silly. It is absurd. However it really isnt all that mysterious or bewildering. There is a certain logic to why humans behave so absurdly. Depth hurts people - - it is frightening - so they avoid what hurts, they avoid what is scary. Awareness, depth, enlightenment 'initially' hurts, it is terrifying, it is depressing. Exceptional suffering is a requisite to a peaceful, profound state of being(so it seems to me, correct me please). Likewise, indulging in worldly pleasures is a requisite to falling into a mire of exceptional misery.

Another reason why humans are constantly occupying themselves with books, music, movies, sex, drug, etc......is because they are bored with themselves.

Humans are bored. They are dull.

What did you do on the weekend? Oh me? Oh, I meditated.

You what? That must have been boring.

Naw, it was great, you should have seen me, I totally merged into the cosmos which, if you havent heard, is conscious and tres benevolent.

[Kevin Solway]

Another reason why humans are constantly occupying themselves with books, music, movies, sex, drug, etc......is because they are bored with themselves.

Boredom is deep in us. You are right. Loneliness is only a particular kind of boredom - it is boredom with oneself. Doing something "for a change" or "for stimulation" is boredom with whatever one was doing before.

[N0X23]

What do you think of this approach, Nox?

What are you looking to accomplish with this method?

[kjones]

What do you think of this approach, Nox?

What are you looking to accomplish with this method?

To judge things accurately. To give you a concept of where I'm coming from:

Just say the typical womanly abyss takes over one's mind. There's a vague horror, despair, and deep sense of loss, with no obvious cause to be perceived --- on that level. There's simply "obscure threat". If there's enough reasoning going on, the threat will be judged accurately. Then the relief of clear-mindedness can also be judged accurately, and also go away.

That's all I'm getting at. So I ask "Why do women do these things...?"


Kelly

[Lennyrizzo]

Is it safe to say-- women behave like women because they are women!

Surely at this stage of the game you are familiar with the feminine component, that it dominates her masculine dosage, and that it's the enemy of wisdom.

Not sufficient an explanation?

[DHodges]

Why don't you share with us 'how you experience life'?

Okay, but it was really a negative statement: I don't experience it in the way that was described. I don't experience it as a dull emptiness that must be filled in and distracted from.

I'm not frightened of missing out on life, because I actually experience life. I don't pay much attention to how other people live their lives or what they think of mine, because (for the most part) people are idiots, and insane.

Things were different when I was twenty, or thirty.

A lot of people probably do hide from life - or rather, they hide from themselves. But if you truly face up to what you are, demand the truth from yourself and see what you are, then you can say "these are the parts I don't like about how I am" and work on changing them.

And, who knows, after a decade or two of that, maybe you will actually like yourself. Not because you ignore the bad parts or rationalize them away, but because you have honestly confronted them and worked on them... and continue to do so. You are not hiding. You are not pretending.

That's a lot of work, and it doesn't come naturally. In order to really set down that path, I had to be pushed. I had to have some experiences where I had my face pushed into the facts, a moment of clarity, where I could not avoid thinking: "Jesus! I'm an asshole!"

When you hit that point, what do you do? Die? Just continue to be an asshole, and make up excuses? Or decide you will do what it takes to change?

---
If you're bored, then you're boring.
- Harvey Danger

[kjones]

Is it safe to say-- women behave like women because they are women!

Surely at this stage of the game you are familiar with the feminine component, that it dominates her masculine dosage, and that it's the enemy of wisdom.

Not sufficient an explanation?

I'm not sure if a tautology is sufficient. An explanation may come back in a circle to the same initial point, but has to travel quite a way to connect again.

I'm not content with the explanation "Women are unwise because women=unwise" because it doesn't define wisdom.

Women (all that is unwise) comes into existence theoretically, when one has some basic awareness of what constitutes delusion. But it's only a hypothesis. Only when an accurate consciousness of delusion arises, do women really exist at all for certain.

Thus, women exist only through enlightened understanding. They are not unwise because they exist as women, but because there is the existence of wisdom.

So unwisdom arises only because of wisdom, and with wisdom. Before then, there is only self-perpetuating and unconscious delusion.

One could say women create men, but that'd be false, because it's a chronological relationship created after men accurately judge what a woman is.

All that's too long-winded. I don't want to go chasing information on women, as she doesn't really exist at all. She's a pointless goosechase, a phantom.

I want to know first and foremost, always first, what is wisdom. Then I can always have certainty what creates conflict with wisdom. I could be in any horrible situation, and immediately fly high above the conflict, because there'd never occasion the need to fight.


Kelly

[Lennyrizzo]

If it was a rhetorical question I didn't much notice.
But if you're up for a tip, Try asking questions that may have fewer answers.

[N0X23]

I could be in any horrible situation, and immediately fly high above the conflict, because there'd never occasion the need to fight.

It would appear that you do not seek, nor value Wisdom, but worship your ego and prostitute knowledge as “wisdom”. You state that you are seeking clarity, but your words give the impression of one hoarding Desert diamonds, while desperately maintaining obfuscation.


Matthew 19: 20-24

The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.

But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


Few are the people
who reach the Far Shore.
These others
simply scurry along
this shore.... Dhp VI

[kjones]

I could be in any horrible situation, and immediately fly high above the conflict, because there'd never occasion the need to fight.

It would appear that you do not seek, nor value Wisdom, but worship your ego and prostitute knowledge as “wisdom”.

I'm not pretending I'm perfect. There's absolutely no value to me in doing that. I talk about what I'm doing, and how my techniques are helping me, because I can't be the only individual who has ever encountered these difficulties. So, I'm passing on what is working for me.

If I were more advanced, I'd directly and exclusively focus on other people's blockages. And perhaps I'd always make sure that the flaws I pass onto the next existence are related to philosophy.

I compromise where I consider the advantage to have more weight than the disadvantage. So, it may well appear that I'm indulging in delusional habits, since I do do that.

Why do you keep most of your personal processes hidden? Why do you think it's delusional to discuss how to overcome blockages, using personal examples?

You state that you are seeking clarity, but your words give the impression of one hoarding Desert diamonds, while desperately maintaining obfuscation.

That's just because I'm learning to value the beauty of the truth in those diamonds, such as my true nature, and how people don't really exist as anything other than the same.

I don't believe the deep-ingrained fears and prejudices in me are totally unique, such that talking of my explorations is of no use whatsoever. It's a dangerous road, if I stay put. So, I'm prepared to know evil, and get to know it, because I will be much more truthful that way.

Matthew 19: 20-24

The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.

But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Yes, there is a lot of ego-boosting in knowledge. In accumulating great experience with all things related to enlightenment, there's certainly - as Nietzsche wrote - the construction of a very long ladder, densely populated with parasites.

I think anyone interested in going all the way with wisdom has this intensity-freak trait. They're achievement-oriented. They're self-employment types, wanting to win at all costs.

In my opinion, "Heaven is inherited by the meek in spirit, and the poor" because they are courageous enough to storm it, and obliterate themselves in the process.

Few are the people
who reach the Far Shore.
These others
simply scurry along
this shore.... Dhp VI

The cyclist advances more easily when blown by a strong tailwind, more than when it chases and is sucked by a peloton's draft. But in both cases, it is advancing.

The more I chase the peloton, the more I create the tailwind.


Kelly

[kjones]

If it was a rhetorical question I didn't much notice.
But if you're up for a tip, Try asking questions that may have fewer answers.

Once upon a time, everything is simple. Then any questions at all can be asked.

[N0X23]

I'm not pretending I'm perfect. There's absolutely no value to me in doing that. I talk about what I'm doing, and how my techniques are helping me, because I can't be the only individual who has ever encountered these difficulties. So, I'm passing on what is working for me.

How is preaching the gospel of flawed reasoning to the unperfected helping anyone, but your own self indulgence?

Working? What is working?

Why do you keep most of your personal processes hidden?

What do you mean?

Why do you think it's delusional to discuss how to overcome blockages, using personal examples?

There’s something about some illiterate guy, who was quoted saying something about...no mirror, no mind, no dust.... Anyways.... Blockages?

What is it that is blocking and whom is it that is being blocked?

That's just because I'm learning to value the beauty of the truth in those diamonds, such as my true nature, and how people don't really exist as anything other than the same.

Desert diamonds are not real diamonds, but simply clear quartz, fools gold.
But yea, I can see how you are learning to value the beauty in the illusory.

.I don't believe the deep-ingrained fears and prejudices in me are totally unique, such that talking of my explorations is of no use whatsoever. It's a dangerous road, if I stay put. So, I'm prepared to know evil, and get to know it, because I will be much more truthful that way.

You already know evil intimately, that’s why you're on about this whole Philosophy thing.

Stay put?

Yes, there is a lot of ego-boosting in knowledge. In accumulating great experience with all things related to enlightenment, there's certainly - as Nietzsche wrote - the construction of a very long ladder, densely populated with parasites.

I think anyone interested in going all the way with wisdom has this intensity-freak trait. They're achievement-oriented. They're self-employment types, wanting to win at all costs.

In my opinion, "Heaven is inherited by the meek in spirit, and the poor" because they are courageous enough to storm it, and obliterate themselves in the process.

There no such thing as obliteration.
What exactly are you trying to achieve again?

The cyclist advances more easily when blown by a strong tailwind, more than when it chases and is sucked by a peloton's draft. But in both cases, it is advancing.

I wouldn’t consider a dog chasing it’s tail as advancing.

The more I chase the peloton, the more I create the tailwind.

Yes, you certainly are creating a lot of “tailwind”. ;)

[kjones]

I'm not pretending I'm perfect. There's absolutely no value to me in doing that. I talk about what I'm doing, and how my techniques are helping me, because I can't be the only individual who has ever encountered these difficulties. So, I'm passing on what is working for me.

How is preaching the gospel of flawed reasoning to the unperfected helping anyone, but your own self indulgence?

Working? What is working?

Talking helps me to learn. It helps me pay attention to my philandering ways. Otherwise, I'll keep obfuscating and making up "happy" detours. This is true for anyone who isn't utterly free of the core delusion of the wanting self. I'm sick of people pretending that delusional habits don't exist at all. Since the unperfected are 99.9% of existences, I've got to use whatever means I can, to stop the prostitution.

The fact one has to reason about flaws to correct them means there is work involved. Enlightenment isn't automatic.

Why do you keep most of your personal processes hidden?

What do you mean?

Why don't you allow others to benefit from your experiences? Since you know you don't inherently exist, surely any wise expression of what you are will help extract the chocks and wedges in the stream of people's lives?

Why do you think it's delusional to discuss how to overcome blockages, using personal examples?

There’s something about some illiterate guy, who was quoted saying something about...no mirror, no mind, no dust....

Evidently you agree personal examples are always used to point out there is ultimately no person. You've just done so, and used Huineng's example as well.

Anyways.... Blockages?

What is it that is blocking and whom is it that is being blocked?

You are creating personal examples to show how to deal with delusion. You are doing some work to point out flawed reasoning. So why disagree that this is necessary?

You state that you are seeking clarity, but your words give the impression of one hoarding Desert diamonds, while desperately maintaining obfuscation.

That's just because I'm learning to value the beauty of the truth in those diamonds, such as my true nature, and how people don't really exist as anything other than the same.

Desert diamonds are not real diamonds, but simply clear quartz, fools gold. But yea, I can see how you are learning to value the beauty in the illusory.

You've just distinguished between what is worth valuing, and what isn't. You use particular "diamonds" to show that it's necessary to go all the way instead of switching one illusory hoard for another. These diamonds could easily be a fool's hoard without the guts to recognise what they're pointing to.

The guts to stop masquerading as something, and dwell in Reality. I don't think you dwell comfortably in Reality, as you pretend, Nox. I think you get a kick out of a domineering personality. I'm glad you throw as much poison at me as you do, as it can only be beneficial. But what you are accusing me of (allowing flaws to continue) is apparent in yourself also.

Even though some weaker students might project all kinds of monsters on others, who express certain weaknesses, the criticism is always a mirror. So, exploring the ego openly, can be an excellent vehicle for uncovering flaws in any one.

I don't believe the deep-ingrained fears and prejudices in me are totally unique, such that talking of my explorations is of no use whatsoever. It's a dangerous road, if I stay put. So, I'm prepared to know evil, and get to know it, because I will be much more truthful that way.

You already know evil intimately, that’s why you're on about this whole Philosophy thing.

I already wrote earlier in this thread, in reply to Cory, how evil (all that is unwise) can only be known intimately and consciously, once the nature of Reality is clearly understood.

So, since I'm still learning what I truly am, I certainly don't know evil intimately. How can one recognise what one doesn't see? I haven't learnt to transcend suffering in a moment, so it still degrades my vision.

It's a dangerous road, if I stay put.

Stay put?

I.e. Hold to a truth found out through an exploration of ego, believing in its inherent existence. When I explore evil, consciously remembering the lack of inherent existence of all things, then any fixation is "uncoupled" from my mind. Next time, it will be easier, and I'll gradually build the habit of floating and not clasping instinctively.

In one of his twenty-something letters to Kevin, David mentioned he had difficulty getting off the fence. He was still philandering. With enough confidence and experience, as he kept focussing on emptiness, day by day, he started to make enough headway to stop following the instincts of self-love deep in the mind. He was consciously becoming more intimate with evil, only as he allowed himself to become more intimate with Reality.

Yes, there is a lot of ego-boosting in knowledge. In accumulating great experience with all things related to enlightenment, there's certainly - as Nietzsche wrote - the construction of a very long ladder, densely populated with parasites.

I think anyone interested in going all the way with wisdom has this intensity-freak trait. They're achievement-oriented. They're self-employment types, wanting to win at all costs.

In my opinion, "Heaven is inherited by the meek in spirit, and the poor" because they are courageous enough to storm it, and obliterate themselves in the process.

There no such thing as obliteration. What exactly are you trying to achieve again?

Ultimately there is no extinction, since all egotism doesn't inherently exist. But only when one knows the poverty of the spirit, is one blessed. There is a barrier to cross.

The cyclist advances more easily when blown by a strong tailwind, more than when it chases and is sucked by a peloton's draft. But in both cases, it is advancing.

I wouldn’t consider a dog chasing it’s tail as advancing.

Do you follow the Infinite?

The more I chase the peloton, the more I create the tailwind.

Yes, you certainly are creating a lot of “tailwind”. ;)

This must be dramatic irony, Nox. You are telling the truth but don't know it.


Kelly

[sue hindmarsh]

Kelly wrote:

I want to know first and foremost, always first, what is wisdom. Then I can always have certainty what creates conflict with wisdom. I could be in any horrible situation, and immediately fly high above the conflict, because there'd never occasion the need to fight.

NOX23 replied:

It would appear that you do not seek, nor value Wisdom, but worship your ego and prostitute knowledge as “wisdom”. You state that you are seeking clarity, but your words give the impression of one hoarding Desert diamonds, while desperately maintaining obfuscation.


Matthew 19: 20-24

The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.

But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


Few are the people
who reach the Far Shore.
These others
simply scurry along
this shore.... Dhp VI

Kelly,
Were you “desperately maintaining obfuscation” as NOX23 suggests, when you wrote the above?

I thought you were saying - as you grow in your wisdom (your understanding of Truth) you are less likely to be taken in by illusions. Is that correct?


NOX23,
What was it in Kelly’s work above, that made you decide she did not “seek, nor value Wisdom, but worship your ego and prostitute knowledge as ‘wisdom’”?

Also, I understand that some of Kelly’s writing can be a bit convoluted, but in what way do you consider it “desperately maintaining obfuscation”?

The two quotes at the end - are they hints to Kelly that she needs to ‘let go’ of her attachment to wanting to “know first and foremost, always first, what is wisdom” – because she won’t be able to reach that “Far Shore” until she does?

Sue

[kjones]

Kelly wrote:

I want to know first and foremost, always first, what is wisdom. Then I can always have certainty what creates conflict with wisdom. I could be in any horrible situation, and immediately fly high above the conflict, because there'd never occasion the need to fight.

Kelly,
Were you “desperately maintaining obfuscation” as NOX23 suggests, when you wrote the above?

This idea came as a realisation while I was in one of those chaotic, noisy discount stores. Usually I hunker down into a disgusted/fighting stance, and start reasoning about what all this stuff is about. But I realised that if I immediately think first of what "everything" is, I don't have to fight. It's all the same.

Everything I've been going on about in this thread has been about trying to get above the "guilt, purpose, violence, that steam like rain" in order to see it all truthfully - and then live.

So, it isn't immediate truthfulness, it's trying to get into the habit of immediate truthfulness, rather than getting pushed around by the screaming ego-baby in my mind.

I thought you were saying - as you grow in your wisdom (your understanding of Truth) you are less likely to be taken in by illusions. Is that correct?

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It doesn't help when most of the time I'm fucked up by the bitch in my brain. I'm not trying to dump my problem on everyone, but to belittle my fear of it by speaking openly and being real about it.

Nox might be taking a very high view, which is great. Maybe he thinks, as I do, that talking of how one deals with one's own delusions can easily distract some people from Ultimate Truth, which is the only true guide through any delusions.

My reasoning is that, I can't possibly advance in the Mahayana path - ie. have sound and solid benefit for others - until I've disciplined myself to live free of my deep egotistical grooves. So I might as well be an honest example of the struggle to discipline oneself. If anyone's so gullible they don't think discipline is really necessary, then my death throes will help kill that idea.

Sorry for the length, but your (opening) phrase comes to mind: about women having so many "outs", that they can't stick to the path that leads to philosophy. So I say, there's no more choice: do it, or fuck off. There comes a time one has to pull out one's finger, and say, STOP NOW! STOP BUILDING!

Surely enough of these kinds of messages will push the mind out of its mud-dive.

Kelly

[kjones]

Hey, Nox, thanks again.

I've just realised what has been my blockage. I've been hanging onto reason, since its insights reveal the nature of Reality. Or to truth, or logic, or even wisdom.

Having built up a ladder to see everything in perspective, now it has to be unbuilt.

The ultimate perspective has to be applied = Reality has no form whatsoever, and is always present. So no perspective is really there, there is only formlessness. Nothing is better or worse, it's all the same.

So...
See everything as God, everything is God. Accept the Infinite. Be resigned to emptiness being absolute. Even valuing truth as the loadstone of God has to be jettisoned - since *all* values are created by God, including falsehood.

The last letter from Kevin to David goes on about a metaphysical brick smashing through Kevin's windscreen, and landing in the front seat. This I think is what Kevin meant by "Now, I forgive." I'm nothing, really nothing. All my words are like leaves in the wind.

So this is the leap of faith, the infinite resignation. It is true: one MUST believe. It's stupid not to.

But faith is still hard for me to understand. To live without holding onto anything, yet living with things as the creations of God. To live faithfully, yet never holding onto faith. Does one need love to be faithful, but yet never consider that the act is faith?

I want to know I'm making the right moves. So I will have to keep thinking through this.


Kelly

[N0X23]

What is more valuable, a gun or a ham sandwich?
Well that all depends on your circumstances.
Value is arbitrary and relegated to the mundane.
Ultimately the ideas of progress, advancement are ignorant interpretations of impermanence. Attachments and barriers are affirmations of the illusory.

There is no faith, there is causality. Faith is a barrier. Faith is the belief in personal volition.
You accumulate knowledge and armed with your belief in personal volition, attempt to use it for control.
Your struggle for control is a barrier. There in lies the struggle between ignorance, knowledge and Wisdom.
The more you attack your barriers the more you reinforce them.
You are battling shadows with shadows.


Be still, and know that I am God:

Psalms 46:10

[kjones]

The insights prove that one learns from them. But as soon as there is doubt, and a problem, there is samsara.

Give up problem-solving? Stop? What am I stopping?

Faith cannot be belief in personal volition, for it is an egotistical hangover, a faith in something. So faith must be continuing, yet knowing that there is nothing being or having been done.

Taking hold of the finite has to be the act of faith. There is no stillness of God, but that expressed in everything. Where could I go to, or be, to be still, that is not already everywhere?

There is a thorn: this looks like worldliness, as if one is really taking hold of the finite as if it is gained. Does one really step off the top of the 100-foot pole, into the void, or back on it again?

I keep wanting to know myself.

K

[Jason]

The insights prove that one learns from them. But as soon as there is doubt, and a problem, there is samsara.

Give up problem-solving? Stop? What am I stopping?

Faith cannot be belief in personal volition, for it is an egotistical hangover, a faith in something. So faith must be continuing, yet knowing that there is nothing being or having been done.

Taking hold of the finite has to be the act of faith. There is no stillness of God, but that expressed in everything. Where could I go to, or be, to be still, that is not already everywhere?

There is a thorn: this looks like worldliness, as if one is really taking hold of the finite as if it is gained. Does one really step off the top of the 100-foot pole, into the void, or back on it again?

I keep wanting to know myself.

K

This sounds similar to what I have been through. I'll tell you what I've found: doubt, samsara, faith, finiteness, problem-solving, stopping problem-solving, worldliness - they are all pefect expressions of Reality. It doesn't matter what you do or what you think, or what you gain or what you lose, Reality just is. You can step back into worldliness, Reality is. You can try to follow QSR, Reality is. See? There is nothing to doubt, there is no need for faith when you realize that Reality simply is.

You can continue doubting, you can continue searching, you can continue questioning: these are all still perfect expressions of Reality, Reality still is.

What is existence composed of for you at this very moment? Thoughts, sensual perceptions, emotions, physical sensations etc etc: how can you doubt this? The very core of your existence, every direct sensation, perception, thought: how can you doubt these?
Even when you have doubt: you cannot doubt that you are experiencing doubt. There is truly nothing to doubt.