The "Kingdom of Heaven" and the "Kingdom of God"

[jufa]

I just love it when people pretend to be so sophisticated and intelligent. What I love about this, and I'm speaking about all the lovely things being stated about my intelligence, style, and structure of expression. Through-out my journey in this world, I come to realize when conversations are taking place on forums, there is always one who doesn't fit the mole of conformity. And what these non-conformist present is insulting to the concret boxes the sophisticated has stepped in and then proceed to go from corner to corner of their box looking to expand their wisdom of the corner of time, space, distance, and matter. What is so defeating for these individuals is this truth: they do not know what time, space, distance or matter is even in their minds of awareness. No one does. These are the PRETENDERS.

Also I've discovered discussion can be going along with all involved, and when one begins to express a different path of travel into the conversation, the first thing the sophisticate do when they hear the Voice of the non-conforming, and unconditional Lord [not non-compassion] walking in the GARDEN OF THEIR MINDS where they have planted the seeds of their "bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh", they hide themselves among the trees of the garden - which is the richest place in the garden, for it is the grave yard of all the philosophers, preachers, idealist, dreamers who caught their vision but was afraid to take that first step which would strart them on their path of fulfillment.

What is so shameful about the sophistcated linguist is they forget the very thing they now find fault in is an inherent part of who they are. They have not always been the elite. They were, at one point in their lives, the very same unsophistcated person they now condemn. They pretend they very way being expressed is beyond their conprehension. Now the very textural of this part of this learning they had to learn in order to become sophisticated is to be kept on the down-low. The PHONY

Oh well, this has always been the way out for those sophisticated people who come to find they have run and run, and ran nowhere but to another box within the first box, which is named DENIAL.

So find me in default. Speak to one another about my lack of intelligence, IQ, and all that good stuff while I go about the business of living jufa to the good pleasure of being jufa. That good pleasure is enhanced by all of my SOPHISTICATED FRIENDS.

I thank all of you very much for giving me this opportunity to place on a pedestal The PRETENDER, the PHONY, those in DENIAL. Thank you very much!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Dennis Mahar]

Jufa,
There can't be an upset without a commitment.
Clearly, you are committed to convey your understanding through language.
The upset is grounded in an undelivered communication.
people are saying your communication can't be decoded.
you are saying it's easily decodable.

It's not your way to be committed to being upset.
It's your way to be committed to what you are committed to, which is conveying your understanding through language.
Recognise the commitment is in temporary breakdown mode.

Ask the question.
How can I shape my communication in such a way that it is delivered?

[cousinbasil]

Also I've discovered discussion can be going along with all involved, and when one begins to express a different path of travel into the conversation, the first thing the sophisticate do when they hear the Voice of the non-conforming, and unconditional Lord [not non-compassion] walking in the GARDEN OF THEIR MINDS where they have planted the seeds of their "bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh", they hide themselves among the trees of the garden - which is the richest place in the garden, for it is the grave yard of all the philosophers, preachers, idealist, dreamers who caught their vision but was afraid to take that first step which would strart them on their path of fulfillment.

A discussion is going along, I got that much. But it seems that one of those engaged therein feels it is necessary to proclaim his part rather than merely state it. Jufa, you do not have the voice of the Lord because you are not the Lord, no matter what it sounds like inside your own head.

[Dennis Mahar]

Jufa, you do not have the voice of the Lord because you are not the Lord, no matter what it sounds like inside your own head.

I thought he was taking advantage of that character/plot driven theatrical device teachers sometimes use...
'If Man says this, God says that'

If GF poster says this....God says that.

Sometimes he stuns with an insight.

Roleplay.

[jufa]

Dennis says=quote: "Jufa,
There can't be an upset without a commitment.
Clearly, you are committed to convey your understanding through language.
The upset is grounded in an undelivered communication.
people are saying your communication can't be decoded.
you are saying it's easily decodable.

It's not your way to be committed to being upset.
It's your way to be committed to what you are committed to, which is conveying your understanding through language.
Recognise the commitment is in temporary breakdown mode.

Ask the question.
How can I shape my communication in such a way that it is delivered?

It is obvious no one here, and others whose minds I touched and touched mine, knows the Principles of the Patterns of Life are One. A Pattern of inter-connecting Units which are obedient to the Consciousness Principles of the Patterns of the Life of One. All Life, that is to say, one is consciously or unconsciously aware of. It does not matter. Each unit is, or learning to express the freedom of comprehending a little bit, I say a tad beyond before small, that the Life is inter-twined with all it is aware of, making the unit the life and substance of all words, thoughts and actions.

All units are the creation of the Pattern Principle of the mind which was issued forth out Of Consciousness. Consciousness is the individual consciousness of every mind or thought. It is independent upon Its own independence.

This means I write for jufa. jufa's Life is the continuum which brought jufa forth from the moment of now in the moment of Now. All that defeatist attitude, and self-righteousness don't mean a thing to jufa. You can read jufa or not, one thing is sure, this one here will read it. This is jufa's message to jufa, and I will speak it or write the living journey through the mind of jufa's Life.

I write for jufa. If those of like impression want to hop upon jufa's script, hop aboard - All are welcome.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Dennis Mahar]

What you've got here is a cosmonogy Jufa.

You're inviting me to look at a Machine.
A machine of componetry.

What's needed is a glossary of terms, for components like:
Principles
patterns of life
interconnecting units
consciousness principles

and what do these phrases mean:
It is independent upon Its own independence
I say a tad beyond before small
making the unit the life and substance of all words, thoughts and actions

[Dennis Mahar]

I will add that to stand on that spot of wholeness realization allows me to go into the world and be minimally affected [sometimes not at all, which is my goal] by the multitude of walking and talking self images I encounter every day as I go about my business.

Pam,
That delivers.
Particularly,
'walking and talking self images'

[jufa]

What you've got here is a cosmonogy Jufa.

You're inviting me to look at a Machine.
A machine of componetry.

What's needed is a glossary of terms, for components like:
Principles
patterns of life
interconnecting units
consciousness principles

and what do these phrases mean:
It is independent upon Its own independence
I say a tad beyond before small
making the unit the life and substance of all words, thoughts and actions

I see you are the spokeman for everyone on this forum. "We need." I must be presenting jufa's message mesmerizingly. Don't you just love it. Like the phase "a tad beyond before small."

Glossary no, just goggle.

Well, your fifteen are up. I'm going back to the subject matter. Just wanted to see how far you would yourself out of the picture. I see.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Dennis Mahar]

Apart from all that.
A glossary of terms would be handy.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

But some, or at least Pam, must be taken by it

This is an example of gossip, innuendo and opinion that I strive not to put out into the world. You believe you know what I am about, but you know no such thing. Many on this forum exhibit this projection of their self image outward as if it is truth or a truth. This is the way of ego death? I think not.

It was based on your own statement about Jufa: "it was his writings from beyond his divided nature that drew me to his wisdom". In what way this differs from being "taken by it"? Or where exactly did you deduce gossip and innuendo? As for the mesmerism remark, this was based on Jufa's own words about the power of this words: "the nearness of touching you right now, and it is taking you into a vision "

You see, words do have meanings and consequences. You cannot put them out then just ignore or dismiss what's coming back at you when someone tries to show the (possible) meanings contained in them.

All I see from the above statement, and statements such as cousinbasil's about his belief about another persons' I.Q. is the attempt to bolster one's self image by putting down or destroying his perception of another's self image.

There was nothing about IQ in there. To me it's obvious Jufa has problems expressing the concepts in written language. That could have many causes but the main question arising is why would anyone stubbornly keep discussing online about difficult topics when there is such a handicap? It creates a lot of unnecessary confusion or it's perhaps just that Jufa doesn't like criticism, doesn't like to know the limits of his possibilities? A bit of humbling would not harm him. Even if his ideas were divine, Jufa the human, the writer can still be challenged and corrected, not?

[Diebert van Rhijn]

What is so shameful about the sophistcated linguist ..

Julius, I'm talking really about the basic level to form a straight sentence at times. Indeed let us beware of over-sophistication and sophistry, as well as over-simplification and dumbing down! It's a danger all of us talking heads should be aware off.

Don't get hung up too much over it. You seem touchy but there's a possibility for constructive criticism here or are you above and beyond it?

[Diebert van Rhijn]

My position is that once one discovers that they have been living as an image and not as the wholeness of themselves, that it is their responsibility to stand on this spot of wholeness realisation and to begin to dissolve their image reflection.

It's that process of dissolving which should be carefully considered. What is it that we want to dissolve? Not life, not being itself, as Nietzsche wrote: "be careful, lest in casting out your demon you exorcise the best thing in you" - a truly Taoist approach!

To be faithful to eliminating within oneself, all biases and prejudices one has toward form. To be as silent of gossip, innuendo and opinion as is possible. To cease putting out into the world, statements about another being as if one knows that being and has the right to judge who and what is the nature of their conscience. In other words, to silence the human mind of idle dreaming, speculation and supposition.

It's indeed where we differ and where I believe you've manoeuvred yourself in a cul-de-sac, sawing off the branch you're sitting on thinking you have found some road to liberation but which does not differ from the average suicide or self-deprecation.

A human will never cease putting out in the world judgements, opinions, words and movement. This is why Buddha talked about the Eightfold path of right doing, right speech etc. The path is still path, the way is still way but there's a qualitative difference. One should desire the right movement, not ceasing the movement. One can still judge and opine even when desire has stilled and existence becoming illusive. As evidenced by yourself and Jufa: you are not able to cease having many views, opinions and words, all with relative meaning and position. You just put it out there as right and good. That's okay but it's bad to pretend you're ghosts, transparent but somehow still casting shadows magically. In that sense you are deluding yourselves on where you're standing.

I read somewhere that the purest attitude of man is that of "suckling on the light of the infinite." This pretty much ecapsulates how I strive to live my life every day. My image continues to be reflected, but it is becoming more and more transparent as I "suckle" on God's unconditioned light.

What transparent should mean is that the clarity reveals more and more what's there inside: character, judgements, biases; clear for yourself and for those looking for them. Only this clarity can lead to purity. It's not about clearing the mirror or say the mirror is "eliminated", it's about the deepest understanding of the nature of the mirror itself and only for that purpose, this exploration, its cleaning might help.

[jufa]

Apart from all that.
A glossary of terms would be handy.

Apart from all that, if you are going to read jufa, then do so by whatever means necessary and stop bitching.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[jufa]

What is so shameful about the sophistcated linguist ..

Julius, I'm talking really about the basic level to form a straight sentence at times. Indeed let us beware of over-sophistication and sophistry, as well as over-simplification and dumbing down! It's a danger all of us talking heads should be aware off.

Don't get hung up too much over it. You seem touchy but there's a possibility for constructive criticism here or are you above and beyond it?

Diebert, let me pull your coat to a reality of jufa's writing. Through the years I have been in conversation with people who do fine in the exchange until they get to a point, such as the likes here, until their intellect cannot continue progressively. What happens then is a repetition of what has happened here, jufa's writing style come into play, jufa's use of language and phases become the isssue, and the conversation changes because questions asked by jufa could not, and more often then not, cannot be aswered.

Questions which makes the intellectual turn from the principles required for people communication, and form a diversion which allows them an escape route from words which well change their minds direction of darkness, to emancipated direction of light.

People -members- since 2002 come and read jufa on his web sites. No constructive criticism had ever been an issue. Just from those who have no vision of their own, who are so steeped in what someone else has stated to be reality, do I find those of supposed logic unable to deal with logical defying issues. So be it.

f I appear touchy to you, then you should it is a touch which tickles, and I am laughing at the antics of people scrambling.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Diebert van Rhijn]

What happens then is a repetition of what has happened here, jufa's writing style come into play, jufa's use of language and phases become the isssue, and the conversation changes because questions asked by jufa could not, and more often then not, cannot be answered.

But have you ever wondered if the repetition might be caused by those people actually having a point? And that they seem not be able to answer your questions because they find it hard to discuss things because of language and phrasing issues?

Sometimes when several people keep on telling you the same thing, there might be a message there. It's not always them or a diversion.

People -members- since 2002 come and read jufa on his web sites. No constructive criticism had ever been an issue. Just from those who have no vision of their own, who are so steeped in what someone else has stated to be reality, do I find those of supposed logic unable to deal with logical defying issues. So be it.

When visiting a place and engaging in conversation with the owner, it's not considered good manners to start with offloading criticism. There's also a pre-selection: the ones visiting and posting might be positively biased toward you. Why otherwise sign up? You might not have that advantage elsewhere.

I am laughing at the antics of people scrambling.

Well, you're definitely an odd character. Nothing wrong with being odd though. But you sound more defensive and indignant than you might think.

[Dennis Mahar]

Just from those who have no vision of their own, who are so steeped in what someone else has stated to be reality, do I find those of supposed logic unable to deal with logical defying issues. So be it.

You've denied the pattern logic as a suitable pattern to deal with patterns.
What pattern have you used to do this?

You've gone on to develop a cosmonogy pattern.
What pattern have you used to do this?

[jufa]

Diebert stated But have you ever wondered if the repetition might be caused by those people actually having a point? Diebert, I write, they read. What would ever be the logic for my wondering why, what, when, where, and who? See man, You have totally ignored my statement of writing for jufa. And that they seem not be able to answer your questions because they find it hard to discuss things because of language and phrasing issues? That's entirely on them because they do not have to read jufa?

Sometimes when several people keep on telling you the same thing, there might be a message there. It's not always them or a diversion. You mean like the several people who said "crucify Him, crucify Him"

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[jufa]

Just from those who have no vision of their own, who are so steeped in what someone else has stated to be reality, do I find those of supposed logic unable to deal with logical defying issues. So be it.

You've denied the pattern logic as a suitable pattern to deal with patterns.
What pattern have you used to do this?

You've gone on to develop a cosmonogy pattern.
What pattern have you used to do this?

Dennis, now Dennis, have I not voided this question before it even arose. I said I write about jufa's journey. I write from the pattern of jufa's living and learning. Has not the patterned style of my writing been the subject matter here?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of srength - jufa

[Dennis Mahar]

I said I write about jufa's journey. I write from the pattern of jufa's living and learning. Has not the patterned style of my writing been the subject matter here?

Is that,

Jufa, the walking, talking self-image.
Jufa, the pattern making animal.
Jufa, the meaning making machine.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Sometimes when several people keep on telling you the same thing, there might be a message there. It's not always them or a diversion.

You mean like the several people who said "crucify Him, crucify Him"

Now don't give me any ideas, will you? :-)

Not to mention the fact that in that same tradition, that crucifixion was supposed to happen as liberation. So the advice was sound enough.

[jufa]

What you've got here is a cosmonogy Jufa.

You're inviting me to look at a Machine.
A machine of componetry.

What's needed is a glossary of terms, for components like:
Principles
patterns of life
interconnecting units
consciousness principles

and what do these phrases mean:
It is independent upon Its own independence
I say a tad beyond before small
making the unit the life and substance of all words, thoughts and actions

"Life is an infinite on going experience of Itself. Self is, within the man, invisible thoughts and material matters of man's interpreted conclusions of inherited matters of thought. Life doesn't care whether the minds of the individual conscious awareness It has produced understand anything about It humanly or not, for Life has one purpose, and one purpose only, to be about the business of Life. Life is everywhere man can consciously be aware of. Wherever ones conscious mind has them, at this very moment, they are there because of Life. Life is Consciousness. Consciousness is the source, energy, animation, mind, and underlining Essence of all that is of any and all thoughts, whether they be distant, or afar, or imaginary. Life is God, and this truth assures all thoughts and intent of every man, woman, boy and girl are naked at all times within Life and cannot hide behind the face of Jesus, Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, nor religion, beliefs, or ignorance.

Life has no lost children. Nothing of Life can be lost of the Life within Life. Life has no knowledge of a Life living within It that is out of order, fallen, sinful, or dual in nature. If such beliefs exist, they exist because they are emanations of a Principle Pattern of Perfection of and within Itself, which cannot prevent or alter Itself to make that which men believe is out of order, fallen, sinful or dual in nature - not whole, perfect, complete, and pure in the life of those believing such to be their reality. Understanding ones own life is only relevant to ones obedience of following the Principle Pattern of the Perfect issues of the Conscience within man's inner conscience of man's consciousness of right or wrong. Man is the consciousness of the Spirit he act and react to and upon because Spirit is the only source of consciousness.

Man is the emanated source of That which the Spirit of life emanates of and as Life's Principle Substance, and Patterned Essence of expressed forms of his awareness visible and invisible, spiritual or fleshly. On the shoulders of all who has thought a thought in the world of matter comes the shaping and molding of the minds of today. Man is exempt from no thought for the principles and patterns of his mental world of material matter are the building blocks of him self. Theses building blocks are who man is." - jufa

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Pam Seeback]

Diebert: It's that process of dissolving which should be carefully considered. What is it that we want to dissolve? Not life, not being itself, as Nietzsche wrote: "be careful, lest in casting out your demon you exorcise the best thing in you" - a truly Taoist approach!

Diebert: It's indeed where we differ and where I believe you've manoeuvred yourself in a cul-de-sac, sawing off the branch you're sitting on thinking you have found some road to liberation but which does not differ from the average suicide or self-deprecation.

Diebert: A human will never cease putting out in the world judgements, opinions, words and movement. This is why Buddha talked about the Eightfold path of right doing, right speech etc. The path is still path, the way is still way but there's a qualitative difference. One should desire the right movement, not ceasing the movement. One can still judge and opine even when desire has stilled and existence becoming illusive.

You are right, the path is the still path, but the stillness is not of spirit, but of the consciousness of the man who is the vehicle for spirit's movement. And what is right movement of the spirit of thought while man remains of his dual awareness? Right movement of the spirit of thought is that which acknowledges the illusion of existence, of dualism, of self, which can be expressed different ways according to the level of the wisdom of the recipient of one's right speech and action. In addressing one who has little or no wisdom, right speech and action would be to engage their spirit of compassion, love and laughter. The human homily "laugh and the whole world laughs with you" comes to mind.

For the one who has some wisdom or depth wisdom, right speech and action would be to discuss the illusory nature of existence directly, compassion love and laughter not being excluded in the exchange. The wise person of awareness of their infinite nature realizes that dualism is unavoidable while the physical body is present and that judgments and opinions will indeed be expressed, but that the expression of such beliefs are viewed as opportunities for 'loosing them and letting them go.'

My understanding of the eightfold path is that it serves the same purpose as the ten commandments: as a way of taming the mind of its belief in the reality of a self so that one's Buddha nature or Christ Mind [infinite consciousness] can be revealed and acknowledged in all words and ways.

One could say that one commits suicide to their separate [finite] self-sense, but this is not the same thing as committing suicide to one's life or being, which you mentioned above. Such a suicide is impossible, for life and being are 'things' of the infinite.

Diebert: As evidenced by yourself and Jufa: you are not able to cease having many views, opinions and words, all with relative meaning and position. You just put it out there as right and good.

Not as something that is right and good, rather, that which points toward the infinite and invisible.

Diebert: That's okay but it's bad to pretend you're ghosts, transparent but somehow still casting shadows magically. In that sense you are deluding yourselves on where you're standing.

I do not pretend I am a ghost or that I am transparent, but rather, that I am becoming transparent. Can you not see the difference between the two? Nor do I cast a magical shadow; I cast the same shadow as all men who remain in the the world of their of divided thought. What I do do on this board, and every board, however, is speak always from the point of view of my faith in, and hope for, my shadow's eventual permanent transcendence.

Diebert: What transparent should mean is that the clarity reveals more and more what's there inside: character, judgements, biases; clear for yourself and for those looking for them. Only this clarity can lead to purity. It's not about clearing the mirror or say the mirror is "eliminated", it's about the deepest understanding of the nature of the mirror itself and only for that purpose, this exploration, its cleaning might help.

How can there be a deep understanding of the unreal nature of the mirror, when it is the unreal mirror that is trying to understand the unreal the mirror? A mirror image is not real [permanent], it is that simple.

Eventually there comes a moment when all paths of mind battling mind of the Adam/Eve mentality of projection have been traveled, and the cleaning away of this dust of projected form must begin. Which opens the door to exploring language that is called 'mystical' or 'poetic' or 'spiritual' [refer to your quotes of Weininger, who speaks of stars, angel, eternal, etc., a language that is realized to yet be of the mirror image of Self, but one of 'right movement' toward what is real and permanent in man, his infinite invisibility of spirit form. My signature speaks of this way of thought that is dual, yes, but points not toward dualism's dividing ways, but rather, toward its being reconciled of its nondual source. "The way out [of attachment to dualism] is the way through [detachment from dualism]."

Words from Rumi, who was once an intellectual scholar of theology and became a thinker of the fire of 'divine' love, a thinker who realized God is not an object or a subject, but that for the time of his being consumed of God's subjectless and objectless fire, must make him just such a 'becoming transparent' thing:

The melody of the song that escapes the pure body,
At every moment, reaches the sensitive ear.

It follows a path unknown to humans,
It is not of the world that forms inhabit.

The companions do not hear it. He, he hears it,
Happy is the soul that gives itself to the invisible.

I am like a lyre, my head bent in submission.
You, with either hand, strike and caress me.

In the journey of love
I disappeared in such a way
That I vanished from the sight of both worlds

Do not ask me my name any longer
Not my trace in these two worlds,
From the leaf both my trace and my name have disappeared

I have disappeared, I have disappeared
I have disappeared, how can one know,
Not having known me, how I disappeared.

[Dennis Mahar]

Jufa,
Thanks for yesterday's exposition.
It's getting clearer.

What you are distinguishing there is 'the REAL' and 'the FALSE'.
Are you not?

That Man has turned away from knowing Real to the attachment to False interpretation that is handed down generationally by conditioning?

Real and False are one?

[cousinbasil]

I just love it when people pretend to be so sophisticated and intelligent. What I love about this, and I'm speaking about all the lovely things being stated about my intelligence, style, and structure of expression.

This is a perfect example. Read your second "sentence" here, jufa. You start with, "What I love about this..." and then you do not finish the thought. What you love about this is what? You never say. You have written yet another sentence fragment disguised as a complee thought which conveys not a thing in the world. You write like a mad man.

[jufa]

I just love it when people pretend to be so sophisticated and intelligent. What I love about this, and I'm speaking about all the lovely things being stated about my intelligence, style, and structure of expression.

This is a perfect example. Read your second "sentence" here, jufa. You start with, "What I love about this..." and then you do not finish the thought. What you love about this is what? You never say. You have written yet another sentence fragment disguised as a complee thought which conveys not a thing in the world. You write like a mad man.

Thank you Cuz. Being I write like a mad man, you must be a mad reader. How else would you know about madness?

Never give power to anything a person says is their source of strength - jufa