GENIUS FORUMS

Crucify. Martyr. Punish.

They seem inseparable.

My Man
by Paul Rudnick October 8, 2012
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/2012/10/ ... ntPage=all

quote:
Whenever Jesus would start telling me about this whole new-religion business, I would get nervous and ask, “But why isn’t the Torah enough?” And then Jesus would look deep into my eyes and smile and murmur, “First draft.” Which would make me even more nervous, until one afternoon Jesus sat me down on a rough-hewn bench and said, “All I’m talking about is everyone loving and respecting each other, and sharing the Lord’s bounty and bringing peace to the world.” And, while I was definitely intrigued, a tiny voice inside my head kept repeating, “Don’t lend him money.”

Word is truth
When it becomes your fire.
Talking about Jesus
Is wet kindling bumping.

Dennis Mahar wrote:

It is the only existence you can know and it is the unknowable that transcends existence. If you would bother to take the time to look inside of your consciousness you would finally realize it is as vast as the universe and is infinite in its dimension.

If it is all you will ever experience - you best learn to love it.

I see, you can't explain consciousness. Duly noted.

I already have - over and over again. You did not get it in multiple posts because you have your fingers in your ears. If you disagree, I could understand but you do not even make the attempt to understand what it is you disagree with. Snap out of it Dennis.

as an aside,
a South African told me,
when the white missionaries came with their bible,
the africans had the land and the missionaries had the bible,
the africans closed their eyes,
and when they opened them,
the missionaries had the land and the africans had the bible.

that is what christianity is about.

I was raised by a minister and that is not what Christianity was in our home. I saw my dad walk through the fires of hell many times for others people with no offer or asking of reward. He suffered for others so they could have a better life. Perhaps there are different kinds of people that make up Christianity?

Whatta you think?

Cahoot wrote:Crucify. Martyr. Punish.

They seem inseparable.

If what you are living for - is not worth dying for - then its not worth living for.

I already have - over and over again. You did not get it in multiple posts because you have your fingers in your ears. If you disagree, I could understand but you do not even make the attempt to understand what it is you disagree with. Snap out of it Dennis.

No you haven't.
Where did it come from, what's it doing here. You don't know.
Don't give me a story please.

I saw my dad walk through the fires of hell many times

Really?

He suffered for others so they could have a better life. Perhaps there are different kinds of people that make up Christianity?

Plenty of people do good deeds.
Good deeds don't depend on Christians.
He did good deeds for a promised outcome, it was conditional for him.
It works like the stock market, invest now for the future payoff.
It's the human being thing of 'one fine day', 'when the ship comes in',
we're funny like that.


I think you are misty eyed about your father which is fine, nevertheless that kind of thing clouds reason.
I could send a box of tissues if you like.

You live in your 'private Idaho' and I live in mine.
Your thing apparently is consciousness is absolute.
My thing is consciousness is causes/conditions.

The activity of consciousness is what interests me.
How it attempts to reach beyond the veil of appearances,
beyond what is sensorially present or physically present and pull possibilities out of that noumenal place.
like pulling rabbits out of a hat.

Surely, the rabbit doesn't have an independent, objective existence separate from the consciousness conceiving it.

Whatya reckon?

Beingof1 wrote:

Cahoot wrote:Crucify. Martyr. Punish.

They seem inseparable.

If what you are living for - is not worth dying for - then its not worth living for.

I like this.

And without invalidating the logic of the premise, the intent of life invites an optimistic amplification.

If what you are dying for - is not worth living for - then its not worth dying for.

Cahoot wrote:

Beingof1 wrote:

Cahoot wrote:Crucify. Martyr. Punish.

They seem inseparable.

If what you are living for - is not worth dying for - then its not worth living for.

I like this.

And without invalidating the logic of the premise, the intent of life invites an optimistic amplification.

If what you are dying for - is not worth living for - then its not worth dying for.

Let us beware of saying that death is the opposite of life. The living being is only a species of the dead, and a very rare species.

Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900

Yes we equate living and dying with our own imagined will, but it's only after the fact of both that we smuggle in some grand reason to quell the terror of our circumstance.

Dennis Mahar wrote:

I already have - over and over again. You did not get it in multiple posts because you have your fingers in your ears. If you disagree, I could understand but you do not even make the attempt to understand what it is you disagree with. Snap out of it Dennis.

No you haven't.
Where did it come from, what's it doing here. You don't know.
Don't give me a story please.

Your story is the answer.

I saw my dad walk through the fires of hell many times

Really?

I made it all up.

Insert roll eyes here:_________

He suffered for others so they could have a better life. Perhaps there are different kinds of people that make up Christianity?

Plenty of people do good deeds.
Good deeds don't depend on Christians.

Duh - that is not what I said - not even close.

I don't think there are any medications for being 'honesty impaired', but that's something hes going to have to own up to folks.

He did good deeds for a promised outcome, it was conditional for him.
It works like the stock market, invest now for the future payoff.
It's the human being thing of 'one fine day', 'when the ship comes in',
we're funny like that.

So now you have magical powers that can peer into the minds of the past? You can see what motivated my dad to do good deeds for others?

What Color is the sky in your world?

I think you are misty eyed about your father which is fine, nevertheless that kind of thing clouds reason.
I could send a box of tissues if you like.

I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in public.

You live in your 'private Idaho' and I live in mine.
Your thing apparently is consciousness is absolute.
My thing is consciousness is causes/conditions.

You have a thing?

I thought your thing was 'its all meaningless'?

The activity of consciousness is what interests me.
How it attempts to reach beyond the veil of appearances,
beyond what is sensorially present or physically present and pull possibilities out of that noumenal place.
like pulling rabbits out of a hat.

Surely, the rabbit doesn't have an independent, objective existence separate from the consciousness conceiving it.

Whatya reckon?

You live with your mom still, right?

it's empty and meaningless that it's empty and meaningless.
you pretty much imply a similar thing.
at the very least, you offer advice in relation to the possibility of that which means you have a sense of it.
what it means is unattached from story.
absolute is derived from a latin word meaning loosened up.
absolute really means unattached.
absolute being free of conceptual frameworks.
as in 'God' would be unattached, free.
if the logic is lined up, something snaps into place and the experience of absolute (free) hits like a ton of bricks.

Do you read me?
absolute isn't a word to be thrown about like confetti.
It refers to a full-blown experience possible for consciousness that discloses the activity of consciousness to consciousness.
It opens up or 'gets' suffering as optional.





That life of a minister.
He's your Dad and you love him OK.
Did 'pointlessness' ever cross your mind in relation to 'life of a minister'.

Cathy Preston wrote:

Cahoot wrote:

Beingof1 wrote:

Cahoot wrote:Crucify. Martyr. Punish.

They seem inseparable.

If what you are living for - is not worth dying for - then its not worth living for.

I like this.

And without invalidating the logic of the premise, the intent of life invites an optimistic amplification.

If what you are dying for - is not worth living for - then its not worth dying for.

Let us beware of saying that death is the opposite of life. The living being is only a species of the dead, and a very rare species.

Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900

Yes we equate living and dying with our own imagined will, but it's only after the fact of both that we smuggle in some grand reason to quell the terror of our circumstance.

Martyrdom dams the river with concepts

Dennis, I have been alone, meditating, fasting and in the desert and wilderness longer than any human I have personally met. I have been alone for weeks without seeing another human and months with minimal contact. I did this with a searing passion that drove me to find answers.

So -for you to lecture me about making an effort to understand truth is laughable.

You are almost oblivious to the state of being, thoughts and feelings of whomever you talk to. I attribute that to you having spent very little time seeking the truth with passion.

If you want true dialogue - you are going to have to unstop your ears and listen to what is actually being said.

You sound aggreived about something lovey.
of course you've struggled.

please start a new thread and get it off your chest.
I'm listening.

Boo,
You are offended by me.
You have a set of rules.
I have broken your rules.

Your rules, it looks safe to say are centered around compassion.
David wrote a piece about the dangers of compassion.

Once a set of rules (conceptual framework) is solid in consciousness,
the set of rules dictates what is observed.

The effect is one becomes a compassion nazi.
Insistence on others forming your set of rules.
Haranguing others for a failure of performance of your set of rules.

The Buddha recognised the phenomenon and set the antidote.

Meditate and bring Dennis to mind, visualise bowing down before Dennis time after time and come to respect him as your master because you have granted him the power to set your mood.

By this method the irritation and impatience will quieten down.
You will have both respect and disrespect poised.

respect arises out of causes/conditions as does disrespect.
not the same, not different.
non-duality.
free.

Dennis Mahar wrote:You sound aggreived about something lovey.
of course you've struggled.

please start a new thread and get it off your chest.
I'm listening.

You are to oblivious to your very own experience to get anything right now. You are trapped inside your noggin and you do not know where the exit is. I do, but the last person you would receive advice from is me. Good luck with what will take you years of struggle with pretending to being enlightened.

It's astonishing that you post this in one thread:

It really is that simple. It is so simple, it is hard to understand, because it is so very simple.

1) Love the Lord thy God with all your mind, soul, heart and strength.

2) Love your neighbor as yourself.

This is enlightenment

a set of rules that show up as a winning formula for others to follow.

And then you post this in another thread:

You are to oblivious to your very own experience to get anything right now. You are trapped inside your noggin and you do not know where the exit is. I do, but the last person you would receive advice from is me. Good luck with what will take you years of struggle with pretending to being enlightened.

That's why winning formulas are understood as inauthentic.

Dennis Mahar wrote:It's astonishing that you post this in one thread:

It really is that simple. It is so simple, it is hard to understand, because it is so very simple.

1) Love the Lord thy God with all your mind, soul, heart and strength.

2) Love your neighbor as yourself.

This is enlightenment

a set of rules that show up as a winning formula for others to follow.

And then you post this in another thread:

You are to oblivious to your very own experience to get anything right now. You are trapped inside your noggin and you do not know where the exit is. I do, but the last person you would receive advice from is me. Good luck with what will take you years of struggle with pretending to being enlightened.

That's why winning formulas are understood as inauthentic.

Over and over and over and over and over again - you miss what is being said.

Get out of your head.

Over and over and over and over and over again - you miss what is being said.

I missed nothing.

over and over and over again you say I'm wrong.

it isn't difficult.

the phenomenon of consensual reality is clear.
if we communicate and find agreement we enrol in each other causing affinity to arise.
if we communicate and fail to reach consensus, affinity falls.

there's no need to hit the panic button.

respect arises out of causes/conditions as does disrespect.
not the same, not different.
non-duality.
free.

How is being bound to causes/conditions the definition of freedom? How is being aware of respect/disrespect the definition of nonduality?

The activity of consciousness is what interests me. How it attempts to reach beyond the veil of appearances,

Wise choice of word, 'attempts.'

beyond what is sensorially present or physically present and pull possibilities out of that noumenal place.
like pulling rabbits out of a hat.

Remember, a rabbit has two ears.

Dennis, how can you as conditioned mind to human words reach into or pull anything out of Unconditioned Mind that is not human? Remember the doctrine of the two truths? The two truths of the absolute and the relative, that they are never to be confused with one another? That the absolute is the absolute, the relative is the relative. Clearly by saying the relative can reach into the absolute and pull out possibilites is a violation of that doctrine.

What has not yet been realized , or if it has, has not yet been acknowledged by the gods of logic is that logic brings one to their awareness of the unconditioned and the conditioned, the absolute and the relative, but logic cannot enter or penetrate the unconditioned. The moment it makes that attempt - again, a wise choice of word - it is immediately silenced by the omniscience of all things it encounters [human words are but one of these things, are they not?]. This is the greatest delusion of all, the belief that one can enter the omniscience of God with their consciousness of human words.

The sage of logic attains wisdom because of the infinite, but the sage of logic does not have wisdom of the infinite.

Wisdom of the Infinite is not omniscient, rather it is a mind cured of the addiction to fill in the blanks. The attempt to remove the veil of appearances is a never ending dance of veils, it's the trying that fills the vacuum.

When you broke thru' Cathy,
there was no 'the answers'
probably what happened was 'the answers' you'd previously upheld blew off.

Is that it?

then there's a need to answer and language shows up.

How frightening truth unvarnished would be?

scares the living shit out of you.

let's kick back in the house of language and have a conversation about nothin'.

to answer is an activity of consciousness.
to answer is to gradually separate.

lies persist
truth dissolves.

Cathy Preston wrote:Wisdom of the Infinite is not omniscient, rather it is a mind cured of the addiction to fill in the blanks. The attempt to remove the veil of appearances is a never ending dance of veils, it's the trying that fills the vacuum.

Are you are saying that to be enlightened is to be a sage of trying? If this is true, then you and Dennis are indeed on the same page, for he likens enlightenment to attempting.

I would appreciate a Buddhist reference to enlightenment as being the activity of "trying to fill in the vacuum."

movingalways wrote:

Cathy Preston wrote:Wisdom of the Infinite is not omniscient, rather it is a mind cured of the addiction to fill in the blanks. The attempt to remove the veil of appearances is a never ending dance of veils, it's the trying that fills the vacuum.

Are you are saying that to be enlightened is to be a sage of trying? If this is true, then you and Dennis are indeed on the same page, for he likens enlightenment to attempting.

I would appreciate a Buddhist reference to enlightenment as being the activity of "trying to fill in the vacuum."

No I'm not saying that to be enlightened is to be a sage of trying. I am saying for you "omniscience" has meaning, in your universe there is a conditioned mind and a unconditioned mind, you stand in one and try to reach the other, even though what you have defined as your goal is clearly impossible the trying continues. This is why for you logic only takes you so far, not because logic some how lets you down, but because you have predetermined where it must take you.

For some strange reason... this quote has always been one of my favorites :

Enlightenment is to turn around and see my own mistake.
Others mistake is also my mistake.
Others are right, even if they are wrong.
I'm wrong, even if I'm right.

(Master Chin Kung)

Cathy Preston wrote:

movingalways wrote:

Cathy Preston wrote:Wisdom of the Infinite is not omniscient, rather it is a mind cured of the addiction to fill in the blanks. The attempt to remove the veil of appearances is a never ending dance of veils, it's the trying that fills the vacuum.

Are you are saying that to be enlightened is to be a sage of trying? If this is true, then you and Dennis are indeed on the same page, for he likens enlightenment to attempting.

I would appreciate a Buddhist reference to enlightenment as being the activity of "trying to fill in the vacuum."

No I'm not saying that to be enlightened is to be a sage of trying. I am saying for you "omniscience" has meaning, in your universe there is a conditioned mind and a unconditioned mind, you stand in one and try to reach the other, even though what you have defined as your goal is clearly impossible the trying continues. This is why for you logic only takes you so far, not because logic some how lets you down, but because you have predetermined where it must take you.

I misunderstood what you were saying; thank you for clearly things up.

Clearly we have different views on enlightenment and our understanding of logic. You tell me my goal of dissolving all of my conditions is impossible, I say it is not only possible, that it will one day be my reality. Anything less than this is, to me, is not liberation.