Introduction and Goal advice.

[Dennis Mahar]

What exactly do I have to learn? Teach me oh master! Even now Huang Po says 'ha' in his grave. "I've attained this level," ha, what exactly have I attained?

Eschewing mastery of any kind, being the ultimate algorithm to grok.

The notion of mastery of any kind constitutes an ego wank of course.

The notion of mastery implies a supply scenario,
an aggregation of pieces/parts that upon examination turn out to be nothing.

mastery is projected on nothing. illusory-like.
has no absolute existence.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

mastery is projected on nothing. illusory-like.

Ignorance would love to hide in such storyboard for ever and ever.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

So basically a master has great understanding yet proceeds to develop and learn in you're language.

It's not possible to stand still, as nothing in nature does. One could learn to move with this or that for a while and call it "control". Ha!

[Sid]

So if it's ever moving.... Wouldn't it just be easier to call yourself a student of nature rather then a master of sorts. You're kind of just toying on interpretative word play at this point or am I missing something?

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Were you toying on word play when you wrote: "I can understand every form of study but I cannot master any, however my time may come"?

Time for what? Studying could be called a form of persuing. Persuing what? What do we call this when we'd catch up or at least step towards something as opposed to what's left behind?

The importance of words and the meaning they contain becomes clear when these same inner meanings are used to explore or persue ones own situation or states of "non-mastery".

[Sid]

Were you toying on word play when you wrote: "I can understand every form of study but I cannot master any, however my time may come"?

Time for what? Studying could be called a form of persuing. Persuing what? What do we call this when we'd catch up or at least step towards something as opposed to what's left behind?

The importance of words and the meaning they contain becomes clear when these same inner meanings are used to explore or persue ones own situation or states of "non-mastery".

I wouldn't say it was word play.. more so as arrogance taken out of context like that..as for the pursuit I would say it depends on the time spent in pursuit and experience in such matter to attain a title and I would agree that word choice is important, but I assumed people would pay more attention to the overall message rather than taking apart every sentence and then explaining where I have expressed poorly.. Yes you all have made me more aware of shortcomings and helped me realize the importance of weak base and its need to be addressed.. but the big picture has yet to be seen and the point of this whole thread was for you all to explain to me what made enlightenment important to you. how it changed you. I'll find my own way but i'm fueled by vicarious curiosity, and this has gone way off track.

" My purpose as I've said before is a collector of ideas and perspective. I seek knowledge"

" i do know some truth's I've found for myself....So while I agree i should be very cautious of others insanity and i should travel my own way. i fully welcome all insanity. It makes me feel.. a little less insane"

[Diebert van Rhijn]

I would say it depends on the time spent in pursuit and experience in such matter to attain a title

The essence is not the title but the behavior: some skill is attained and one moves on. Like a child "masters" walking and does not need to return to crawling very often. Other infants won't see much difference here though. Nothing is attained in their perspective.

but I assumed people would pay more attention to the overall message rather than taking apart every sentence and then explaining where I have expressed poorly.

My intention was not to perform grammar correction. It was mostly my own curiosity about your initial phrasing: why you would say such thing and which internal meaning might be there to open a window to this "big picture" discussion? Like already said earlier: meanings are used here to explore or persue ones own situation or state. Why not just go with it? Just pay attention to the responding. If such knowledge would be laying around somewhere you already would have collected it a thousand times over.

My purpose as I've said before is a collector of ideas and perspective. I seek knowledge

But sanity is what's really needed. Some knowledge works as opposed to stamp collections. A perspective is only truly "collected" by diving in, not by studying it still from your own perspective. Would you agree?

i do know some truth's I've found for myself

Which makes you a teacher or master of those truths. So start teaching, don't be too humble! One learns and teaches at the same time. This is an important property of all knowledge.

[Sid]

I would say it depends on the time spent in pursuit and experience in such matter to attain a title

The essence is not the title but the behavior: some skill is attained and one moves on. Like a child "masters" walking and does not need to return to crawling very often. Other infants won't see much difference here though. Nothing is attained in their perspective.

but I assumed people would pay more attention to the overall message rather than taking apart every sentence and then explaining where I have expressed poorly.

My intention was not to perform grammar correction. It was mostly my own curiosity about your initial phrasing: why you would say such thing and which internal meaning might be there to open a window to this "big picture" discussion? Like already said earlier: meanings are used here to explore or persue ones own situation or state. Why not just go with it? Just pay attention to the responding. If such knowledge would be laying around somewhere you already would have collected it a thousand times over.

My purpose as I've said before is a collector of ideas and perspective. I seek knowledge

But sanity is what's really needed. Some knowledge works as opposed to stamp collections. A perspective is only truly "collected" by diving in, not by studying it still from your own perspective. Would you agree?

i do know some truth's I've found for myself

Which makes you a teacher or master of those truths. So start teaching, don't be too humble! One learns and teaches at the same time. This is an important property of all knowledge.

haha you're using the word master interchangeably again. I agree teaching makes the material clearer in one's mind, but by no means would i consider a master and teacher the same thing.
I would maintain different levels of competency and with greater level comes the ability to pass whats known thus far.
"some skill is attained and one moves on. Like a child "masters" walking and does not need to return to crawling very often. Other infants won't see much difference here though. Nothing is attained in their perspective."
I like this by the way. Well said.
but sanity is also a matter of perspective and on that subject.. no matter what i do my entire reality is my perspective. i want to know how others see the world, however i know it works much like a blind man questions the view in front of him, through description alone he can piece it together in his mind. It may be better than reality or complete fabrication. but to the blind man it doesn't matter. It exists and he has no choice but to believe it is as it was described and move forward.. I see it like.. true enlightenment would need to be known by all with no personal interpretations on how to achieve it. One universal means.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

by no means would i consider a master and teacher the same thing.

Well it's the same thing in my view because everyone "teaches" all other people with each and every interaction. There is never "neutral" in communication. There's this constant hardly conscious re-affirming or dis-agreeing going on. Either way, lessons are being exchanged, denied or just being recited. Teachings are like ripples made in a pond, the moment any movement is made it's there outside control, deluded and disfigured as she goes.

In the extreme there's this choice between master and slave but both can be seen as form of obedience. The difference lies only in the location of the perceived center of power but not in the amount of power. The difference between master and slave lies in the shift of center.

but sanity is also a matter of perspective

Actually sanity is decided never just by you but by your whole context. But we digress.

.. no matter what i do my entire reality is my perspective.. true enlightenment would need to be known by all with no personal interpretations on how to achieve it. One universal means.

One could start with looking for universal truths with regard to ones mind and existence. Do you believe there are any? What about "existence exists" or "causality"?