Philosophy, science, religion and art:

[jupiviv]

Are you saying space is something specific prior to consciousness of it? If so, what?

No. Whatever we are conscious of now is all there is.

If not, are you defining space as area created by consciousness? I.e. "something".

The statement that there is space requires time, and therefore a "creation"(causation.) The "=" in A=A represents a passage of time(causality) between two moments of consciousness of space(duality). So A=A is basically what consciousness is.

[Kelly Jones]

I wrote: Are you saying space is something specific prior to consciousness of it? If so, what?

Jupiviv: No. Whatever we are conscious of now is all there is.

Kelly: If not, are you defining space as area created by consciousness? I.e. "something".

Jupiviv: The statement that there is space requires time, and therefore a "creation"(causation.) The "=" in A=A represents a passage of time(causality) between two moments of consciousness of space(duality). So A=A is basically what consciousness is.

Could you clear up what your definition of space is? Is "whatever we are conscious of now" space? Such that the "hidden void" is not space?

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[jupiviv]

Is "whatever we are conscious of now" space?

Yes. All the things we are conscious of now is space.

[Anders Schlander]

ah, now i understand better the times you were using the word space. But, then, i would simply carve it up into 'consciousness' and hidden void, without any-more words. Things we are aware of and consciousness is really the same thing, isnt it?

[Kelly Jones]

Is "whatever we are conscious of now" space?

Yes. All the things we are conscious of now is space.

You also said that whatever we are conscious of now is all that there is. So are you equating the Totality with all consciousnesses? If so, you are supposing that the causes for consciousness are other consciousnesses. I don't think that follows.



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[jupiviv]

You also said that whatever we are conscious of now is all that there is. So are you equating the Totality with all consciousnesses? If so, you are supposing that the causes for consciousness are other consciousnesses. I don't think that follows.

No, that does not follow, but that is not what I meant. :-)

Whatever we are conscious of now is "all things", but we can never be conscious of ourselves(an eye cannot see itself), so just being conscious of space(actually it's impossible to be conscious of space only) doesn't make us conscious of the Totality.

[Kelly Jones]

Well, you could have been a little clearer in your choice of words. "All things" sounds to me like "everything", which I regard as the Totality. So, now it seems that you're saying that what appears to all consciousnesses is not the Totality, and is not "all things". There are "things" beyond consciousness which are indistinguishable, by definition.

So, can you confirm that your definition of space is the same as everything, and therefore includes consciousness as well as what is beyond consciousness? You said that consciousness of space is logic, but you didn't clarify whether space is something that only arises with consciousness. It's your definition, I still don't know what you're getting at.

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[jupiviv]

"All things" sounds to me like "everything", which I regard as the Totality.

For someone who claims to possess wisdom, you seem remarkably inflexible in your thinking.

So, now it seems that you're saying that what appears to all consciousnesses is not the Totality, and is not "all things".

Of course. Look at that word - "appears." They have to appear TO something, so they can't be the infinite. It is the self, the "I", which is time, or causality. Space is everything else except the "I" - the "other." Together these make up the Totality.

There are "things" beyond consciousness which are indistinguishable, by definition.

There are no things beyond consciousness.

So, can you confirm that your definition of space is the same as everything, and therefore includes consciousness as well as what is beyond consciousness?

See above.

You said that consciousness of space is logic, but you didn't clarify whether space is something that only arises with consciousness

The space for a particular conscious being arises with that conscious being.

[Kelly Jones]

Oh well. Thanks for your time.

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[longsincedead]

What does "existents" mean? Things?

Science: the action of defining and understanding things, and the nature of things.

Yes.
Despite the words used - logical ordering allows people to get the intended meaning. Words should be defined precisely for better communication, but....