Being a Wise Dreamer?

[brokenhead]

Edit: by the way, anyone who's ever had a particularly bad acid trip will probably get the general gist of what I'm talking about.

I feel your pain, bro

[divine focus]

The second possibility is that my suspicions are false and delusional. In that case, you all will recognise that I'm ascribing a false nature to you and, whilst I can never know definitively that they are wrong, you all will, and all that I will achieve is to demonstrate to the forum that some of my thoughts are particularly strange, in which case I'll lose most of the credibility that I might have attained through my hard and careful attempts to contribute rationally and meaningfully to this place over the course of the better part of a year now. I value my credibility and I'm not about to jeopardise it any more than I already have done by writing this.

LOL

Too funny. You know you didn't really have to respond if you cared about your credibility so much. If you care about honest disclosure just as much, which I doubt, you really have to pick one: public image vs. inner disclosure. This half-way method may have its uses, though, since you can let people who are interested ask you privately and thereby create a situation where you can get genuine feedback. Maybe having a few cynics questioning your credibility is a small price to pay. I don't care enough to ask, and I don't think we've had any direct conversation for you to be comfortable pm'ing me on your own. If that's the case, good luck with everything.

My advice would be to stick with the "normal" reality, or try to bring some "normality" into your suspicious reality. If you can't know anything definitively in the suspicious reality, it's probably not true.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

Maybe it is possible to feel pain from pinching yourself in a dream, I don't think you can rule it out.

Yes, it is. I used to use the "pinch myself" method, and then would end up with so much control over my dream that no one and nothing would move or make a sound unless I consciously willed it to, and that was just too much effort, and kind of creepy that everything would be absolutely frozen and everyone looking at me like they were waiting for instructions to breathe.

Now I have full sensation in my dreams, even though not controlling them. A particularly disturbing one was when I dreamed that a kid bit my arm and it hurt so much I woke up - still hurt a moment after awakening, checked my arm to see if there was anything wrong - nothing - the pain went away pretty fast, I went right back to sleep, and re-entered the dream at the same spot and it hurt just as bad while the kid was still biting me.

[Shahrazad]

I'm not interested in controlling my dreams, but there is a trick I use to reduce the suffering in bad dreams. It's easy because the scary themes recur a lot. One is talking to dead people, and arguing with them that they are dead. Two is my teeth falling out. When one happens, I tell myself inside the dream that if someone who died came back, I'm in a dream. When two happens, I remind myself that in real life my teeth do not fall easily, so I'm just dreaming and will get my teeth back when I wake up.

Some of my dreams do seem very real, to the point that afterwards it's hard to tell what really happened and what was dreamt.

-

[Laird]

Is your relationship to reality special and intimate in some way, then?

Something like that, but I'd describe it more as: very private and something that I'd feel awkward and uncomfortable about sharing publicly. Furthermore, as I've already explained, there's no point to describing it publicly. If you want to be critical of me, then at least address my reasoning.

Edit: actually, you know what? Don't address my reasoning. In fact, don't even bother responding to this post. I've already acknowledged that I made a mistake in bringing this up in the first place, I've got as far in explaining myself as I'm willing to, and there's nothing that you can say that will convince me to go further. And if you do respond then don't expect me to respond in turn. I'm done here.

[samadhi]

Nat,

How do you "enter (or re-enter) the dream state consciously?" I don't have the money to buy his book, so if you know, could you tell me?

Here it is in a nutshell:

The best time to try to re-enter a dream is often immediately after you have come out of it. By snuggling down in bed and rehearsing the postures of sleep, you may be able to slide back into the dream in a gentle and natural way. But your work schedule may not allow you leisure to do this. And if your dream contains deeply disturbing material, you may need to wait until you are ready to deal with it. You may also feel you need support of a partner or drumming session.

Here is a simple technique for dream re-entry you can use in the privacy of your bedroom or easy chair.

1. Find your question. What is your main question about the dream you wish to explore? Try to formulate that question as clearly and succinctly as possible. Write it down. This will help to establish your focus. During your exploration, you will use this question like a flashlight or a miner’s lamp. It might be quite specific or as general as, “What is this dream telling me?”

2. Focus on your target. Summon back as many details of your dream location as you can. This is the scene you are going to re-enter. Maybe you have multisensory impressions of it? How does the air feel? What can you hear? Are there any distinctive smells?

3. Ask yourself who or what inside the dream can best answer your question. When you re-enter the dream, you may be able to communicate directly with one of your dream figures.

4. Relax. Get into a comfortable position, sitting or lying down. Take some deep breaths. Breathe in through your nose, out through your mouth. As you exhale, try to release any pain or tension you are holding in your body and wish it outside your space. You may find it helps to count yourself down, from twenty to one, as you let your consciousness slide toward your remembered locale. Or you may wish to put on meditation music or a drumming tape.

5. Move into your dream locale. Look around carefully to identify exactly where you are. You may notice many details you forgot or overlooked before. Do you know this place? Do you feel you are inside a scene from another time or another order of reality?

6. Let the action unfold. Don’t interfere with the spontaneous flow of images. You have full power to choose how you will interact with your dream characters and respond to any challenges that are presented to you. Your dream reentry may take you beyond the point at which the original dream ended; if the first dream was unresolved or aborted, this is part of your design. Your new dream may also introduce characters and events that were not in the original dream. This is fine; your underlying purpose is not to reproduce the earlier version but to move closer to the source from which the dream images flow.

7. Dialog with the dream characters. You may find a dream character who can answer your questions. Your selection is not confined to humans. Dreams of full of “persons other than human” (to borrow an Ojibwa phrase). There is no such thing as an inanimate object in dreams.

8. Expect the unexpected. Because the dream source is wiser than the ego, it may be telling you something more important than the question you decided to ask.

9. Map your journey. Pay attention to how you return from the dreamscape, as well as the paths you took through it.

- Conscioius Dreaming, Moss, pgs 72-73

I would suggest if you're really interested that you go to a library and check out the book. These instructions may get you started but you have to immerse yourself in it over a number of weeks or months if you really want to be able to consciously dream. It's not a program for instant gratification.

[brokenhead]

I once heard a renowned psychology professor say what thought about the dream state. He claimed it was simply a chance for the mind to freewheel. That is, all day, impressions impinge on the mind, coming in at the speed of light and sound. The mind is geared into the body, memory stores, and speech recognition and formation areas in the brain and responds as well as it can. The mind first prepares itself for REM sleep, and then when it enters the REM period, it is as active as in the waking state, only disengaged from those parts of the brain, and can spin freely like an engine in neutral, dissipating built up energy it has cached. When we are "rested," then, we actually have less energy, rather than more. We have cleared these caches, so to speak, and are receptive to receiving the day's stimuli once again. He did give a brief mention to directed dreaming, saying it could very well be a dangerous practice, in that it was inserting a control on the outlet of this energy that the brain was attempting to dispel. He compared it with the risks of practicing controlled breathing, that it was encroaching on autonomic functions and could be dangerous.

Just thought I'd throw that in.

[Dan Rowden]

Is your relationship to reality special and intimate in some way, then?

Something like that, but I'd describe it more as: very private and something that I'd feel awkward and uncomfortable about sharing publicly. Furthermore, as I've already explained, there's no point to describing it publicly. If you want to be critical of me, then at least address my reasoning.

Edit: actually, you know what? Don't address my reasoning. In fact, don't even bother responding to this post. I've already acknowledged that I made a mistake in bringing this up in the first place, I've got as far in explaining myself as I'm willing to, and there's nothing that you can say that will convince me to go further. And if you do respond then don't expect me to respond in turn. I'm done here.

Nice hissy fit. Reasoning, what reasoning? What you offered was a rather lame excuse for not wanting to be open to scrutiny; you didn't seem to understand that my follow-up question was perfectly logical. Don't worry about me responding further to this as I won't be engaging you at all in future. I'm sorry, but you're obviously a paranoiac egotist who cannot bare having his actual ideas subjected to scrutiny (that's an observation not a criticism; there may be legitimate reasons for this which I acknowledge with genuine sympathy). I saw this in your discussions with Kevin but passed it off as a thing you have with him. I don't see any value in discussions with a person who likes to pontificate about what is wrong with other people's perspectives whilst making claims about how things actually are, but who will not open themselves up to any real scrutiny and who gets all uppity and mentally distorted (sees "criticism" in a simple, logical question) when it happens.

Carry on.

[snow bunny]

Nice hissy fit. Reasoning, what reasoning? What you offered was a rather lame excuse for not wanting to be open to scrutiny; you didn't seem to understand that my follow-up question was perfectly logical. Don't worry about me responding further to this as I won't be engaging you at all in future. I'm sorry, but you're obviously a paranoiac egotist who cannot bare having his actual ideas subjected to scrutiny (that's an observation not a criticism; there may be legitimate reasons for this which I acknowledge with genuine sympathy). I saw this in your discussions with Kevin but passed it off as a thing you have with him. I don't see any value in discussions with a person who likes to pontificate about what is wrong with other people's perspectives whilst making claims about how things actually are, but who will not open themselves up to any real scrutiny and who gets all uppity and mentally distorted (sees "criticism" in a simple, logical question) when it happens.

Carry on.

Just ban him, Dan, if you are really that upset about his problem with you. You are the Administrator, and the only one who seems to be taking an active role on the forums here (out of the three of you). I'm not saying that I have any personal quarrel with Laird (I actually like him), but if you are going to take such offense, then just ban him, and make him beg his way back onto the forums. There is an overwhelming number of contributors here on GF, so you shouldn't have any problem being slap happy deleting people who are causing a problem. I know, I personally, would request to be reinstated, if you ever banned me. The discussion here is pretty funny, and I would at least like to be able to read the posts, if I were banned for being sock puppet. (I actually have never posted here before, but somebody told me that the forums were funny.)

[Dan Rowden]

Just ban him, Dan, if you are really that upset about his problem with you.

What? Ban him for what? I am not upset about any problem Laird has with me because he doesn't have one - he just has a problem that I find non-conducive to the kind of discussion that suits my purposes.

You are the Administrator, and the only one who seems to be taking an active role on the forums here (out of the three of you).

Nah, it's a tag team match. Currently, I'm it.

I'm not saying that I have any personal quarrel with Laird (I actually like him), but if you are going to take such offense, then just ban him, and make him beg his way back onto the forums.

You've been hanging out with sorority chicks too much. There's no offense, just a realisation of an impasse.

There is an overwhelming number of contributors here on GF, so you shouldn't have any problem being slap happy deleting people who are causing a problem.

I only ban idiots with idiotic purposes.

The discussion here is pretty funny, and I would at least like to be able to read the posts, if I were banned for being sock puppet. (I actually have never posted here before, but somebody told me that the forums were funny.)

A genius, no doubt. In what way did they suggest the forums here were funny? Anyway, being banned doesn't stop you reading the board.

[Shahrazad]

snow,

Just ban him, Dan, if you are really that upset about his problem with you.

You really are overreacting here.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

snow,

Just ban him, Dan, if you are really that upset about his problem with you.

You really are overreacting here.

Hey Sher, you'd better not tick him off. He can be one bad bunny.

[snow bunny]

Nah, it's a tag team match. Currently, I'm it.

Why 'cause you're the only one who's not a homo? The other two are busy with each other :(

I only ban idiots with idiotic purposes.

That isn't the nicest thing in the world to say about someone.

A genius, no doubt. In what way did they suggest the forums here were funny? Anyway, being banned doesn't stop you reading the board.

Why, don't you ban ip addresses here?

The person just said that the interplay of many of the posters was comical, and that people would be sure to get really upset with some of the other people, and I am sure to enjoy it when people have spirited debates!

[Unidian]

(I actually have never posted here before, but somebody told me that the forums were funny.)

I think you ought to keep an eye on this guy, Dan. He's been evasive about who he is (or who his friend is) and he's most likely playing games. The idea that he (or "his friend") thinks these forums are "funny" is also bothersome. They are sometimes funny, of course, but I'm pretty sure that's not you guys' intent.

He's probably here to troll you in subtle ways rather than add anything serious.

[Dan Rowden]

snow,

Just ban him, Dan, if you are really that upset about his problem with you.

You really are overreacting here.

Maybe it's a survival instinct; if the snow bunnies don't overreact the snow foxes will gobble them up.

[Dan Rowden]

Nah, it's a tag team match. Currently, I'm it.

Why 'cause you're the only one who's not a homo? The other two are busy with each other :(

You seem to have a bit of a homophobia problem happening.

I only ban idiots with idiotic purposes.

That isn't the nicest thing in the world to say about someone.

Idiots with idiotic purposes aren't nice people.

A genius, no doubt. In what way did they suggest the forums here were funny? Anyway, being banned doesn't stop you reading the board.

Why, don't you ban ip addresses here?

I'd only do that to repeat offenders.

[Shahrazad]

I think you ought to keep an eye on this guy, Dan.

All my womanly instincts tell me that the bunny is harmless.

[Dan Rowden]

(I actually have never posted here before, but somebody told me that the forums were funny.)

I think you ought to keep an eye on this guy, Dan.

Don't say that; it means having to read all his posts!

He's been evasive about who he is (or who his friend is) and he's most likely playing games.

I don't mind that so much; it's the stupid distraction of the discussion of who he is that is more bothersome.

The idea that he (or "his friend") thinks these forums are "funny" is also bothersome. They are sometimes funny, of course, but I'm pretty sure that's not you guys' intent.

As you know, people can have odd senses of humour.

He's probably here to troll you in subtle ways rather than add anything serious.

Well, I think his first two threads pretty much established that. He's on the GF Homeland Security Banality Watchlist.

[Laird]

Just ban him, Dan, if you are really that upset about his problem with you.

Buns, is this suggestion retaliation for Maria?

[acid]

(I actually have never posted here before, but somebody told me that the forums were funny.)

I think you ought to keep an eye on this guy, Dan. He's been evasive about who he is (or who his friend is) and he's most likely playing games. The idea that he (or "his friend") thinks these forums are "funny" is also bothersome. They are sometimes funny, of course, but I'm pretty sure that's not you guys' intent.

He's probably here to troll you in subtle ways rather than add anything serious.

Pardon me, do you have any Gray Poupon?

[snow bunny]

Just ban him, Dan, if you are really that upset about his problem with you.

Buns, is this suggestion retaliation for Maria?

Sure is, bro, got to make you pay the piper.

I don't mind that so much; it's the stupid distraction of the discussion of who he is that is more bothersome.

Yeah, okay, I see where you are going with that, because maybe I'm just trying to draw attention here and detract it elsewhere.

p.s. I'm not a homophob, just don't like gays, but that's their choice.

[brokenhead]

I think you ought to keep an eye on this guy, Dan.

All my womanly instincts* tell me that the bunny is harmless.

To quote from Monty Python and the Holy Grail:

"Aye, but that be no ordinary rabbit!!!"



*BTW - ixnay on the omanlyway instinctsay...

[snow bunny]

TRICKS are for kids! I couldn't ever figure out exactly what really the holy grail was supposed to be. I think it must have to do with Maria Sharapova, but not sure, babe that she is!!!

[brokenhead]

TRICKS are for kids! I couldn't ever figure out exactly what really the holy grail was supposed to be. I think it must have to do with Maria Sharapova, but not sure, babe that she is!!!

There's no bunny like snow bunny...

[Pincho Paxton]

I have lucid dreams. I have done many tests during these dreams.

I have tested for 3D, and they are 3D.
I have tested colours, and they are in colour.
I have pinched myself, and I did feel pain.
I have jumped from a building to see if you die before you hit the bottom, and I hit the bottom, but didn't die. I broke all my bones, and I was like jelly.
I have walked around my area to see the differences. I saw a white van parked at a house. It had never been there before so I remembered to look for it the next day, and it was there. The main difference was sounds. In real life there was a sound from the drains.. water running, but it was not in my dream.
I have tested the linearality of dreams.. they do not play in the correct order. This needs explaining...

A dream can play in chapters like this.. 1,3,4,5,6,2. Where 2 is a dream part that is added at the end of the dream, but when you wake up, you remember the dream in the right order.. 1,2,3,4,5,6. This has to do with a sort of flashback effect. In a dream you can remember some information that happened earlier. This information is then added to the dream as a memory.. as part 2.

Dreams happen just before waking, and are not the rapid eye movements that most people think they are. This was reveled to me when someone knocked at my door when I was asleep. The knocking was incorporated into my dream, but at the wrong timeline... before the person knocked at my door, which of course is impossible. So I concluded that dreams bodge a timeline into your subconcious. The knocking at the door can be incorporated into a dream some hours back in time, or just a few seconds back.

When you wake you feel that the dream happened for a long time, the whole time thing should be ignored to get the truth. The dream happens upon waking, it is very fast, probably a couple of seconds, and it is just a marker, a memory address. Like a defrag of a hard drive, you need to remember where you got to to continue the next time.

All my oppinion of course, but from hard facts that I have realised over many years.