Laird,
I'm getting the impression that you are Dan!:D(~for ex. ....whether that's true or not is unknown. Even if you're right about me and I'm wrong about you, means... ?)(my evidence -the way you use the word "dude" and the way you two bicker with one another. Both of you are smart and show opposing view points, yet you do not want to discuss any common ground. This forum is about opening other peoples minds towards the beauty of nature in all its complexity. Exploring and discussing philosophy. After reading some QRS works, people might take it all in as a truth and not explore it, which isn't the point. So, by you two arguing and so on, you're both showing other people "parts" that I find very valuable and interesting and this is the point of these forums (and of what seems to be the QRS ...)
Btw.... I know you know, I thought you'd write about me not making sense and sounding dumb and so on and that being the main reason...(thanks...:D).
That could be interesting. I suspect that you're somewhat unique in having that reaction whilst reading GF threads.
It's not a bad thing as long as it helps me.
What is this sense? Are you talking about ESP?
Google:
ESP (extra sensory perception). The knowledge of facts, happenings, or presences through means other than the five senses of the physical body.
I think so, although I also realize that this is also the product of the 5senses. The 6thsense, for all intents and purposes, is "thinking".
Well, exactly. How do we know for example that all of the quirky results of quantum mechanical experiments aren't the result of some supernatural being just messing around with our heads?
Is there logical proof that this isn't a possibility? When we don't know enough, we can easily jump to false conclusions. The question is, how can we truly be sure that we have enough accurate proof. This is also why I constantly doubt everything, including my own thinking. maybe it's not the way to go, for it has the potential to have devastating consequences. Depends how it works out... in the end (and to know the ending of some moves in chess, would be great).
Dude! I couldn't have been any more direct. Reread my original question and then reread the sentence after "OK, I'll share it with you then." I even quoted with minor changes the first part of the question! What more do you want in an answer?
I was hoping you wouldn't take offense. When I read your original question, I had something else in mind, then what you wrote about in the response. That's all.
A few more thoughts about your intro...
For some people, everything should be in its right place, words are precious instruments to be used very carefully, and perfect concentration should be applied to every task that one embarks upon. These are the sort of people who have immaculate homes, who work diligently at their jobs and whose relationships are typically intimate.
We have to be careful about this. For most - if not everyone - feels they have reason to act and think the way they do and they are right. Wars, hatred, and violence, is a product of all this. It is wrong. Nature seems flawed - something is amiss, but it would not be any other way. ...
For other people, it doesn't really matter what you do because in the end one thing is as good as another. These are the sort of people who throw rubbish out of their car windows, who laugh at social conventions, who experiment with drugs and who couldn't care less whether or not you like what they have to say.
It's sorta like a trick of the mind.
Now your original question...
So what I want to know is this: is it enlightened to believe that every single thing that one does is infinitely important, being that its effects stretch out infinitely into the unknowable future, and to place the utmost concentration and effort into making every single act a perfect one
the very concept of someone trying to improve the world won't change the world, it's just another step (byproduct) of "cause and effect". Without this step (way of thinking) the future could not be (or would not be the way it was meant to be or would have been, but in a way it would not be - nothing would be, if it wasn't exactly the way it is). I can't get over... how it does make a very real difference, but it won't make any other difference then what it is meant to be. However, what it will be is unknown to us, so we all just ...do our best.
the next part...
or is it rather enlightened to believe that whatever happens, will just happen, and that active attempts to direct progress are futile: that "God's plan will unfold regardless of my intentions"?
Of course, in a sense this is the same thing. It's sorta like someone "inside" trying to comprehend the "outside" - but we want to, I'm just saying that none of our ideas are better then the others... The point is, we don't know. we all have ways of trying to know, however...
"God's plan will unfold regardless of my intentions"
Those "intentions" whether present or not are all part of the plan and this plan, we do not know, because we are just part of it. In it. In a very real sense, it's also just created by us, in our heads. Hence, the phrase: "it's all in your head".
Laird, the two parts of what you're asking is the same thing and if you don't see it in that way, then can it be the same thing? (is that impossible?)
Anyways, I thought you were going to write about an investigation into freewill and how you see it... which you did, but I thought it would be something original...Yet, it is... it's just I've heard it before. That's because it's all me, I need something extra... Damn!
You went on with this...
In my opinion, a fully enlightened person in this day and age would be fully visible. He or she would be pushing the evolution of the species forward to a point where warfare, starvation, poverty, sickness, torture and ignorance were unheard of. He or she would be constantly in the news, or at least in the alternative news. You would be able to approach this person in the street and put your criticism to him/her and s/he would effortlessly come up with a perfect response to put your mind at ease as to his/her actions. Every single word that this person spoke would resonate with appropriateness and clarity. Every single action that this person undertook would be sheer perfection.
In my opinion, it seems like you have something against QRS (or whatever) and their claim that they are enlightened and because of this you're trying to find something about it, which is what we all do and what they did to Jesus.
If you want to prove them wrong, you have got to find something illogical in their belief or works, but I don't see that happening, after all, they claim they've spent their lives thinking about logic and nature and all... Whatever. Let's just explore, without the ... But we can't can we? UGH. It's funny, I'm "charging" you with something that we all do. I want to stop, but can I...?
You know, nothing you or anyone says is wrong. I don't consider any of these things wrong. They all make sense and have their place.
[Sorry if some of it doesn't make sense, much has gone in, into it. I believe I'll improve!:D]
The pity is that it takes drugs to achieve this state in me. But the fully enlightened person has no need of drugs nor anything else to manifest perfection: s/he acts effortlessly to perfectly evolve the world.
I've had this experience (or inkling), but it's a false state. IMO, an enlightened person, doesn't need drugs in the same way that they don't need sex.
Would you agree if I said: the "whole" is perfect, but the parts aren't?
However I want to pose this question: is the potential of the dance/game unlimited?
I cannot comprehend how it would be, nor can I comprehend how it would not be. I don't know, but I can debate it either way.
It is, however, my belief that for the most part an enlightened person is capable of choosing his/her move well enough on average to have the intended effect or something close enough that the move is vindicated.
But of course, they're "no different" then any other person on earth.
(And yeah, I love chess too - I played a game as I composed this post. I lost quite badly. Ah, dear Helm you cunning strategist, one day I'll have you!)
I'll play you. It would be wicked if we had a chess game set up, where we'd be able to login and play at any time, so if we wanted to, we'd be able to think about a move for a week. No room for error! (we'd be sure of every move, so to speak.). If you can set up something like that, then I'm game!:D
Agreed. As well as experience, wisdom, spontaneity, creativity and skill.
Of which we "ultimately" have no control over.
If they both the enlightened and unenlightened are expressing their Buddha Nature, then what's the big deal about enlightenment?
What else could it be, if not ego... ?