Celia Green

[Dan Rowden]

I think we should entice first, ask for payment from someone later. And I am generally dead against enticing guests with monetary lures. In fact, I'm against enticing Green if that's what it takes. If the opportunity to freely and globally advertise Oxford Forum (not to mention promote sanity) isn't worth a lousy hour of her time then she's not worth an hour of mine, frankly.

[Kevin Solway]

I'm sympathetic to what you're saying, but you don't imagine she's a rational person do you?

Sometimes irrational people have to be treated like donkeys, by dangling a literal carrot (money) in front of them.

I wouldn't be surprised if she was deeply afraid of having her life examined in an honest way.

[Faust]

Or maybe because she gets so many emails that she hasn't read it yet or she's still thinking about it.

[Faust]

I wouldn't be surprised if she was deeply afraid of having her life examined in an honest way.

Do you see the reasons why she didn't have an academic career Kevin? It wasn't her fault apparently. Read her bio.


http://www.celiagreen.com/biography.html

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

Or maybe because she gets so many emails that she hasn't read it yet or she's still thinking about it.

Or maybe you got caught in her spam filter, or maybe since she didn't recognize your name personally, she didn't bother with your email. In September when I tried to come back to GF (first time since after the ezboard meltdown) and I couldn't get my SN to work, I emailed David and he never responded (so I re-signed up under my given name). If David wouldn't respond to my email, a similar situation could be with Celia.

Perhaps if you send her snail mail?
.

[Kevin Solway]

I wouldn't be surprised if she was deeply afraid of having her life examined in an honest way.

Do you see the reasons why she didn't have an academic career Kevin? It wasn't her fault apparently. Read her bio.

Some observations:

At the age of 21 she says, "My education lay ruined behind me, and it was too late to salvage it."

Who is she trying to kid?

My brother recently got himself a degree in nursing at the age of 44, and won the University medal.

There is little preventing you from getting qualifications at any age, if you have the will. She could continue with her academic career right now if she wanted to. But she is trapped in the past. Mentally, she hasn't grown beyond the age of seventeen.

So I got a Second and no research scholarship, and was left empty-handed at the end of my education with no way ahead.

I don't believe this either:

"No way ahead"

????

There are all manner of ways ahead. Even if you want to continue in academia there are ways around the system.

I immediately proposed to take another degree, maybe in physics, supporting myself if necessary and living as cheaply as possible, so that I could get a First and continue my academic career, a few years late as an ironic penalty for precocity. This, it turned out, was not acceptable,

. . . not acceptable to who? She doesn't specify. Not acceptable to herself most probably.

Is she saying that no University in the whole of England would accept her to do a second degree? I very much doubt that was the case.

And even without doing a second degree, and getting a First in it, there are other ways into a research career, by proving your academic credentials in some other way, by studying extra subjects and doing exceptionally well in them, or by getting enough personal support from practicing researchers, or by paying enough money, etc.

The educational system might be very unfair, but she had a lot more opportunities than most of the people in the world.

[Dan Rowden]

The non-reply to my email isn't a problem. There might be any number of explanations for that. I've had no reply from a number of people. Now that we have some shows up and running I'll be re-contacting them all.

I'm just not interested in paying someone for an hour of their time where they basically get to push their own barrow for free. But this is speculation anyway as we don't know that we need to at all.

[keenobserver]

Yeah, chances are if she's been invited she has taken the time to look here, that could have intimidated her. It may work if you send her the questions in advance, so there will be no surprises.

Im not on paypal, rather just send a bank check out to You.

[Faust]

Kevin,

She was prevented from entering university early by not being allowed to take the school certificate exam at 13. Also, Britain is probably going to raise the high school leaving age to 18.

She IS continuing with her academic career, she's a fellow now. But because she got kicked out she had to accumulate funds all over again.

What do you mean by Not acceptable to herself most probably.

Apparently it was not acceptable to the educational authority.

The educational authority encouraged my father to oppose my plans; nothing was acceptable but that I should give up all thought of returning to the academic world and set about earning a living in whatever way a Second Class degree made possible.

how do you prove your academic credentials in some other way? I think she was already doing exceptionally well in her first term, she said how easy it was and quickly she wanted to go through it. Support? Hahah, no one wanted to give her support! She was totally ostracized. Paying enough money? What do you think she was trying to accumulate for so long?

[Kevin Solway]

But because she got kicked out she had to accumulate funds all over again.

Such is life. Not everyone breezes through without a hitch.

Apparently it was not acceptable to the educational authority.

I doubt that no University in the whole of England would accept her to do a second degree.

I wouldn't be surprised if she had decided which University she wanted to go to, and wouldn't accept any other.

The educational authority encouraged my father to oppose my plans

I don't know what her father has got to do with it. She was 21 years old, and should be an adult who can make up her own mind.

She should have learnt by then not to consider the wants of her father. She had already made the mistake of studying maths based on her father's advice.

Support? Hahah, no one wanted to give her support! She was totally ostracized.

I don't believe her. It seems to me that she likes to play the victim. This makes other people feel guilty and that they should look after her.

Paying enough money? What do you think she was trying to accumulate for so long?

Most people get student loans to pay for their education - or at least I believe they do here in Australia.

[sue hindmarsh]

Kevin wrote:

Faust13 wrote: Support? Hahah, no one wanted to give her support! She was totally ostracized.

I don't believe her. It seems to me that she likes to play the victim. This makes other people feel guilty and that they should look after her.

A ‘victim mentality’ would explain the underlying emotional negativity present in her work. It also more than likely explains why she didn’t push her ideas further. And it would be a reason, or even 'the' reason why she never continued exploring her philosophical potential. (Self-pity is an extremely powerful emotion, and will not easily surrender to reason.)

Nevertheless, her work The Human Evasion shows that at one time she wasn’t completely lost in her emotions. That makes her, and her work quite unique.

-

[Kelly Jones]

Self-pity is an extremely powerful emotion, and will not easily surrender to reason.

Do you think self-pity is really just laziness? A kind of delusion of grandeur? Believing others should worship one's little poos?

What happens when one has become worn down by the ego's fussing, and one seriously has to take to a lower level? Is that self-pity, without emotionalism, or not?


-

[sue hindmarsh]

Kelly wrote:

Sue: Self-pity is an extremely powerful emotion, and will not easily surrender to reason.

Do you think self-pity is really just laziness?

It's “laziness” in the sense that to surrender to it requires very little effort. You just need to let the imagination run free without direction or discernment. This unleashes the emotions, allowing them to colour every event and interaction. The end result being that reality can be comfortably and completely ignored.

A kind of delusion of grandeur?

Well, self-pity is a form of egotism, and all egotism really is just a “delusion of grandeur” – so yes, you could call it that.

Believing others should worship one's little poos?

Self-piteous people do expect others to accept and respect their “laziness”, and resent it when that is not forth coming. That's like believing you should be worshiped - poos and all.

What happens when one has become worn down by the ego's fussing,

The ego is naturally fussy. It kicks a up stink if its not sure that something is right for it. When it is sure, there's no resistance.

Feeling “worn down” is a consequence of feeling confused. But as soon as you know what you're doing and where you're going, you feel energized.

and one seriously has to take to a lower level?

Once you know where you're going, and what's required for the journey, you can work out what strengths you can call upon, and what weaknesses you have that might cause you problems.

Knowing honestly what you are really capable of makes the journey possible.

Is that self-pity, without emotionalism, or not?

Feeling self-piteous, but trying to hide it, doesn't often work. As it shines through one’s thoughts and actions.

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[Faust]

Support? Hahah, no one wanted to give her support! She was totally ostracized.

I don't believe her. It seems to me that she likes to play the victim. This makes other people feel guilty and that they should look after her.

What evidence or good reason do you have that she could have gotten support from others? You're lack of belief is emotionally based and is not really investigated. If she WAS offered support she would obviously take it.

[Kevin Solway]

What evidence or good reason do you have that she could have gotten support from others?

I can't think of any reason why she wouldn't have gotten support, if she had put in the effort, asking the right questions, etc.

I know people who have been excluded from University a number of times because of bad results, but have managed to weazle there way back in through use of their own intelligence.

If she WAS offered support she would obviously take it.

It is rarely that people are offered support. You have to go out and get it for yourself. Perhaps she was used to a socialist-type environment where everything is done for you and you just have to accept your lot.

[Faust]

What evidence or good reason do you have that she could have gotten support from others?

I can't think of any reason why she wouldn't have gotten support, if she had put in the effort, asking the right questions, etc.

I know people who have been excluded from University a number of times because of bad results, but have managed to weazle their way back in through use of their own intelligence.

If she WAS offered support she would obviously take it.

It is rarely that people are offered support. You have to go out and get it for yourself. Perhaps she was used to a socialist-type environment where everything is done for you and you just have to accept your lot.

Ok I'm sure she tried to find support and look for it everywhere since she was so desperate. I think she mentioned this too.

What do you think really ruined her career then?

[Kevin Solway]

What do you think really ruined her career then?

Without talking to her in person and getting more information, all we can do is speculate. At the moment, in the absence of more information, I suspect that her own self-pity and pride was the major hurdle to her academic career.

But really, I don't care about her academic career. I want to know why she didn't continue with the pursuit of wisdom - since I haven't seen any evidence that she continued with it.

[Faust]

What do you think really ruined her career then?

Without talking to her in person and getting more information, all we can do is speculate. At the moment, in the absence of more information, I suspect that her own self-pity and pride was the major hurdle to her academic career.

But really, I don't care about her academic career. I want to know why she didn't continue with the pursuit of wisdom - since I haven't seen any evidence that she continued with it.

Self-pity and pride in themselves cannot actually fail anyone. It's the marks that decide everything.

She couldn't continue with the pursuit of wisdom because she needed to support herself.

[Kelly Jones]

Self-pity and pride in themselves cannot actually fail anyone. It's the marks that decide everything.

You seem to be taking Celia Green's situation rather personally. It sounds like you're talking about yourself, rather than Green.

It's possible to find a way to live in society without becoming an institutionalised yes-man within academia.

She couldn't continue with the pursuit of wisdom because she needed to support herself.

I would have thought you'd realise this was a total speculation.

Have you considered the option of the disability pension in Canada?

Perhaps you are concerned that your friends, academic/work colleagues, family, acquaintances, etc. will think you're some kind of freak, if you can't show you have a recognised label?

If you don't "belong"....?

-

[Faust]

You seem to be taking Celia Green's situation rather personally. It sounds like you're talking about yourself, rather than Green.

It's possible to find a way to live in society without becoming an institutionalised yes-man within academia.

No. I was refuting Kevin's ill-conceived assumptions that pride and self-pity ruined her career. This makes no sense because it's strictly the marks that matter. She didn't want to become an "institutionalized yes-man," she wanted to have research resources for her field of interest. She already knows alot of wisdom, such as the Human Evasion, what is she going to do knowing that the ego is delusional and causation is everything? Just sit there and ponder about it even more? She wanted to find out things on a specific field of research that can change alot of scientific views.

Have you considered the option of the disability pension in Canada?

Perhaps you are concerned that your friends, academic/work colleagues, family, acquaintances, etc. will think you're some kind of freak, if you can't show you have a recognised label?

If you don't "belong"....?

Uhhh what??? Why are you asking me about a disability pension in Canada? I'm not disabled, and I don't want a pension. And Green doesn't live in Canada, nor is she "disabled." What's actually funny is that the social welfare of Britain can't even support her! Because what she wants to do with the support goes against the new-Labour indoctrination of communal interests rather than self-interest, and of not allowing smarter people have 'unfair' advantages over not so smart people.

I'm personal with Green not because I want to actually talk about myself. I have no fear of being recognized a freak if I don't accept a societal role, I just don't believe in having welfare for people who are able to support themselves physically. I'm personal with Green because, IF her testimony is TRUE, that is she was literally KICKED OUT because she wanted to do more degrees, and not because she FAILED GRADES then she has a right to feel how she feels. If she is lying and there's something that she isn't telling us, then that's something else.

[Kevin Solway]

She already knows alot of wisdom, such as the Human Evasion, what is she going to do knowing that the ego is delusional and causation is everything? Just sit there and ponder about it even more?

What she has in the Human Evasion is just the beginning of wisdom. It's one thing to know the basic truths on an intellectual level, at the comfortable distance of the intellect, but it's quite another to dissolve one's own ego in the light of that truth, and to completely align one's life with the truth.

She wanted to find out things on a specific field of research that can change alot of scientific views.

It could have a significant impact on science, if she discovered anything significant. But she may not have discovered anything significant.

Like Susan Blackmore, she might have done many years of research and come up empty-handed.

[Kelly Jones]

K: It's possible to find a way to live in society without becoming an institutionalised yes-man within academia.

F: No. I was refuting Kevin's ill-conceived assumptions that pride and self-pity ruined her career. This makes no sense because it's strictly the marks that matter. She didn't want to become an "institutionalized yes-man," she wanted to have research resources for her field of interest.

Just think about "research resources" for a few seconds. It basically means, the ability to observe and think.

Green's research area is psychology of pain, and she invented some system to control pain using her own thinking alone. She is remarkably silent about it, though, which is miserly of her.

She's not trying to develop a faster MotoGP bike - yet she asks for at least £100,000 (~AUD$240,000, or USD$200,000). I'll probably die before
using up that much money, yet I've discovered and openly shared more about the psychology of pain than she has (shared).

She already knows alot of wisdom, such as the Human Evasion, what is she going to do knowing that the ego is delusional and causation is everything? Just sit there and ponder about it even more? She wanted to find out things on a specific field of research that can change alot of scientific views.

That to me shows how meagre her understanding of Life is.

If she seriously understood the emptiness of all things, she'd abandon the research area she's focussing on.

Human emotional pain is far, far greater a source of suffering than ordinary biological pain. But changing the thinking and beliefs that are the source of such suffering is far, far harder, than taking a pill. If Green knows this, then she would be focussing on this instead.

K: Have you considered the option of the disability pension in Canada?

Perhaps you are concerned that your friends, academic/work colleagues, family, acquaintances, etc. will think you're some kind of freak, if you can't show you have a recognised label?

If you don't "belong"....?

F: Uhhh what??? Why are you asking me about a disability pension in Canada? I'm not disabled, and I don't want a pension.

How do you support yourself? Are you employed, sponsored, supported by a wealthy family, or what?

If you openly dispute the values of your boss or employer, will they continue to give you money?

The disability pension suits me, because it allows me to live according to my reasoning, and openly. My disability was diagnosed by a psychiatrist and psychologist as resulting in an incapacity for employment, in the classic sense of the term, employment. It means I'm thinking for myself, so I'm "too independent". That's the opening lines of my last employment reference....

And Green doesn't live in Canada, nor is she "disabled."

Yes, she seems to fit the mainstream mold well, so she is not disabled. Nothing to be proud of.

What's actually funny is that the social welfare of Britain can't even support her! Because what she wants to do with the support goes against the new-Labour indoctrination of communal interests rather than self-interest, and of not allowing smarter people have 'unfair' advantages over not so smart people.

I can't think of any wise individual who has been rich and walked on rose petals, so to speak.

Yet in another way, all of them were immensely wealthy.

The world hates what they love, they hate what the world loves, is how it usually goes.

I'm personal with Green not because I want to actually talk about myself. I have no fear of being recognized a freak if I don't accept a societal role,

Hang on a moment.

Would dropping the pseudonym, and using your real name, allow people who know you to associate your real-life views and name together, and then recognise you as a freak?

Do you have any fear of that?

I just don't believe in having welfare for people who are able to support themselves physically.

I don't function to my best as a thinker, unless I have a lot of quiet time to contemplate.

To earn my income, I'd have to work for 8 hours for 3-4 days a week. I'd be searching for years until I found work that wouldn't compromise my true vocation. I physically couldn't do standard work, as my soul would force me to override any irrational instructions, as well as to decide my own tasks and methods. Let's face it, practically every job in society is badly designed.

My last go at employment was a tragi-comedy. I can only look back on those three-four months, working 8 or 9 hour days, 5-6 days a week, by laughing at myself.

I'm personal with Green because, IF her testimony is TRUE, that is she was literally KICKED OUT because she wanted to do more degrees, and not because she FAILED GRADES then she has a right to feel how she feels. If she is lying and there's something that she isn't telling us, then that's something else.

If Green needed "research resources" to further her knowledge, she did not need to do a degree.

To me it sounds like she wanted to be acknowledged.


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[Faust]

What she has in the Human Evasion is just the beginning of wisdom. It's one thing to know the basic truths on an intellectual level, at the comfortable distance of the intellect, but it's quite another to dissolve one's own ego in the light of that truth, and to completely align one's life with the truth.

The title itself shows that it contains the "uncomfortableness" of certain truths. But the truth of the ego being delusional doesn't negate the importance of advancing science, since it's not really "egotistical," that is just an effect of it, but not the primary reason for it.

It could have a significant impact on science, if she discovered anything significant. But she may not have discovered anything significant. Like Susan Blackmore, she might have done many years of research and come up empty-handed.

Her research was crude and lacked alot of equipment that is probably very important. What did Susan Blackmore find out?

All I'm saying is that if she is honest about her career being ruined by other people and not herself then she can complain all she wants.

[Faust]

Just think about "research resources" for a few seconds. It basically means, the ability to observe and think.

Uhh no Kelly, sometimes it really doesn't mean that at all, but actually what it's supposed, such as specific scientific equipment. That statement infact was very very crude and minimalist.

Green's research area is psychology of pain, and she invented some system to control pain using her own thinking alone. She is remarkably silent about it, though, which is miserly of her.

She's not trying to develop a faster MotoGP bike - yet she asks for at least £100,000 (~AUD$240,000, or USD$200,000). I'll probably die before
using up that much money, yet I've discovered and openly shared more about the psychology of pain than she has (shared).

No, read the Decline and Fall of Science, and you'll see her area of research is much more diverse than just "pain".

That to me shows how meagre her understanding of Life is.

If she seriously understood the emptiness of all things, she'd abandon the research area she's focussing on.

Human emotional pain is far, far greater a source of suffering than ordinary biological pain. But changing the thinking and beliefs that are the source of such suffering is far, far harder, than taking a pill. If Green knows this, then she would be focussing on this instead.

Just listen to your belief. It basically says, "if we all seriously understood the emptiness of all things (whatever the hell THAT means) then we'll abandon scientific progress and all technology and vast and important advances we have done so far in order to live like bumps on a log on welfare checks, concluding the end of the human race.

How do you support yourself? Are you employed, sponsored, supported by a wealthy family, or what?

If you openly dispute the values of your boss or employer, will they continue to give you money?

The disability pension suits me, because it allows me to live according to my reasoning, and openly. My disability was diagnosed by a psychiatrist and psychologist as resulting in an incapacity for employment, in the classic sense of the term, employment. It means I'm thinking for myself, so I'm "too independent". That's the opening lines of my last employment reference....

I'm currently a university student, and I'm working part-time and living with my parents. There are many jobs where independance is valued. Maybe you could find a job that you can work in, not all jobs are "mechanical," which is I'm guessing what you're trying to avoid?

Yes, she seems to fit the mainstream mold well, so she is not disabled. Nothing to be proud of.

Uhh ok.... She doesn't fit the mainstream well AT ALL, that's why her career was ruined in the first place. Haven't you figured this out by now?

To earn my income, I'd have to work for 8 hours for 3-4 days a week. I'd be searching for years until I found work that wouldn't compromise my true vocation. I physically couldn't do standard work, as my soul would force me to override any irrational instructions, as well as to decide my own tasks and methods. Let's face it, practically every job in society is badly designed.

My last go at employment was a tragi-comedy. I can only look back on those three-four months, working 8 or 9 hour days, 5-6 days a week, by laughing at myself.

What do you mean by "irrational instructions"? Not all jobs are "useless." If you have the talent, you can find something where you can apply your own tasks and methods. Do you mind working in nature? Maybe you could help a farmer or something? I wouldn't necessarily mind that if I were you, seeing it would be more "serene" for the mind and would be useful. Everyone needs food. But that's just me.

If Green needed "research resources" to further her knowledge, she did not need to do a degree.

To me it sounds like she wanted to be acknowledged.

Science is different than strict philosophy. You really do need resources and other equipment to investigate things, you can only ponder about it for so long until you have to empirically investigate. She might have also wanted acknowledgement, but the main thing here is that apparently her means for a desirable and meaningful income was also lost, and she doesn't want to support herself through the money of others.

[Kelly Jones]

Faust,

If you're interested in the goals of this forum, then our disagreement on how a person should live would vanish.

You believe integration in society is valid and intelligent, whereas I do not. That's basically the plot for this story.

K: Just think about "research resources" for a few seconds. It basically means, the ability to observe and think.

P: Uhh no Kelly, sometimes it really doesn't mean that at all, but actually what it's supposed, such as specific scientific equipment. That statement infact was very very crude and minimalist.

Green made no mention of anything other than her own inward examination, when she described her research area.

Can we contextualise this, and see whether your own future is playing a role in your argument?

What is your personal interest in academic research?

K: Green's research area is psychology of pain, and she invented some system to control pain using her own thinking alone. She is remarkably silent about it, though, which is miserly of her.

She's not trying to develop a faster MotoGP bike - yet she asks for at least £100,000 (~AUD$240,000, or USD$200,000). I'll probably die before
using up that much money, yet I've discovered and openly shared more about the psychology of pain than she has (shared).

P: No, read the Decline and Fall of Science, and you'll see her area of research is much more diverse than just "pain".

She is requesting money for one research area only, as described.

K: That to me shows how meagre her understanding of Life is.

If she seriously understood the emptiness of all things, she'd abandon the research area she's focussing on.

Human emotional pain is far, far greater a source of suffering than ordinary biological pain. But changing the thinking and beliefs that are the source of such suffering is far, far harder, than taking a pill. If Green knows this, then she would be focussing on this instead.

P: Just listen to your belief. It basically says, "if we all seriously understood the emptiness of all things (whatever the hell THAT means) then we'll abandon scientific progress and all technology and vast and important advances we have done so far in order to live like bumps on a log on welfare checks, concluding the end of the human race.

That is not my belief at all. I did not say abandon science altogether, which is impossible for conscious humans in any case, but not to persist in the mistaken belief that thoughts and beliefs are totally divorced from emotional suffering.

Can you explain your understanding of the goals of this forum?

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment

and

your understanding of these keywords

Truth, Wisdom, Perfection

K: How do you support yourself? Are you employed, sponsored, supported by a wealthy family, or what?

If you openly dispute the values of your boss or employer, will they continue to give you money?

The disability pension suits me, because it allows me to live according to my reasoning, and openly. My disability was diagnosed by a psychiatrist and psychologist as resulting in an incapacity for employment, in the classic sense of the term, employment. It means I'm thinking for myself, so I'm "too independent". That's the opening lines of my last employment reference....

P: I'm currently a university student, and I'm working part-time and living with my parents.

If you openly dispute the values of your employers, will they continue to give you money?

What about if you openly disagree with your parents' values? Would they let you live at home with them?

And would you lecturers and tutors give you high grades if you openly disagree with their ideas and values?

There are many jobs where independance is valued.

Even a lighthouse keeper has to keep the lighthouse working, stick to the rules of the job.

Maybe you could find a job that you can work in, not all jobs are "mechanical," which is I'm guessing what you're trying to avoid?

The only job that is not mindless is the job I currently have as a thinker.

K: Yes, she seems to fit the mainstream mold well, so she is not disabled. Nothing to be proud of.

F: Uhh ok.... She doesn't fit the mainstream well AT ALL, that's why her career was ruined in the first place. Haven't you figured this out by now?

Is she upset that her career is ruined?

If so, then she belongs to the mainstream.

K: To earn my income, I'd have to work for 8 hours for 3-4 days a week. I'd be searching for years until I found work that wouldn't compromise my true vocation. I physically couldn't do standard work, as my soul would force me to override any irrational instructions, as well as to decide my own tasks and methods. Let's face it, practically every job in society is badly designed.

My last go at employment was a tragi-comedy. I can only look back on those three-four months, working 8 or 9 hour days, 5-6 days a week, by laughing at myself.

P: What do you mean by "irrational instructions"?

Instructions that aren't highly conscious, that don't have a good grasp of the nature of Reality in order to see all the likely interractions involved in doing a job properly.

Instructions that are impatient and rushed, performed purely to look like one is doing something.

Not all jobs are "useless."

True. My current job as a thinker is useful.

If you have the talent, you can find something where you can apply your own tasks and methods.

Using my soul (conscience), I've found thinking to be the most ethical, useful, and intelligent use of my skills.

Do you mind working in nature?

Nature is me. How can anything not be Nature?

Maybe you could help a farmer or something?

Of course I could, but that would be a waste of my time. Farmers are usually far too busy and tired to think. At the end of the working day, perhaps lasting from 6am to 10pm, they're too tired to question all the traditions they follow blindly, too exhausted to wonder about how to do things more efficiently. Far too tired to wonder about philosophy. The closest they get is a vague wonder when the sun's rising. They're also far too embarrassed to be open thinkers and philosophers, because of the moronic tradition that all intellectuals don't "hoe their corn".

I wouldn't necessarily mind that if I were you, seeing it would be more "serene" for the mind and would be useful. Everyone needs food. But that's just me.

I think you may be mistaking mental stupor for serenity.

K: If Green needed "research resources" to further her knowledge, she did not need to do a degree.

To me it sounds like she wanted to be acknowledged.

P: Science is different than strict philosophy. You really do need resources and other equipment to investigate things, you can only ponder about it for so long until you have to empirically investigate.

When it comes to understanding the nature of suffering, one depends on one's own intellect and experience. Nothing else is needed.

She might have also wanted acknowledgement, but the main thing here is that apparently her means for a desirable and meaningful income was also lost, and she doesn't want to support herself through the money of others.

The last statement is false. She openly asks for money from others. Green is a fake, so far as I can see.

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