Crucifixion

[Dennis Mahar]

John,

Did I not tell you we had god minds? You know you are seeing its incredible capability at every moment yet still ignore the potential?...One is asking you to join a god mind hive...

Can I ask you,
God,
does it have an existence independent of your mind.
Is the zone it shows up in your mind.
Is it of the nature 'concept'

Do you take on this concept as a belief.
Having done that do you move forward from there into the activity of assigning properties, characteristics and functions to God.

Have you a model.
Do you then live up to that model.
Do you fit your way of being into that model.

Do you set about instructing all and sundry in the sagacity of the model.

Have you given this model absolute existence independent of your mind conceiving of it.

Have you discovered throughout the many peoples of the World,
stark contrasts in 'God Models',
that have led to massive disruptions of peace,
unthinkable atrocities,
hatred,
resentment.
confusion.

There is another way fortunately.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

John,

Did I not tell you we had god minds? You know you are seeing its incredible capability at every moment yet still ignore the potential?...One is asking you to join a god mind hive...

Can I ask you,
God,
does it have an existence independent of your mind.
Is the zone it shows up in your mind.
Is it of the nature 'concept'

Do you take on this concept as a belief.
Having done that do you move forward from there into the activity of assigning properties, characteristics and functions to God.

Have you a model.
Do you then live up to that model.
Do you fit your way of being into that model.

Do you set about instructing all and sundry in the sagacity of the model.

Have you given this model absolute existence independent of your mind conceiving of it.

Have you discovered throughout the many peoples of the World,
stark contrasts in 'God Models',
that have led to massive disruptions of peace,
unthinkable atrocities,
hatred,
resentment.
confusion.

There is another way fortunately.

Dennis,

I am sorry to say but there is no other way. Until you realize that everything beautiful you have seen, every intelligent thought you have had, every piece of music you make, is not "you", but are all manifestations of one, and until you call this "one" divine, until you call it the source of all things and creator of all things(that we know of), in which all things spring from and return too, then you are naming it wrongly. You are understanding it wrongly.

It is the definition of "God" and has all its qualities. You can name it or not name it, or refuse to attach any concepts to it, but it is what it is, a higher power.

A model? No. You think for some reason that just because the idea of God exists only in the mind and is only one of those fleeting thoughts and fleeting ideas, that it's existence is somehow hindered.

You are experiencing it's existence right now and are part of it.

The only thing I know is that I don't know. < true wisdom right, your thinking this line here is in support of your view.

in reality, the only thing I know is that I don't know anything but God.


There are only two things you can know in this world using wisdom:

"It is what it is, all I know to exist are these sensations, they act how they act....not a brain nor a physical form, not an awareness or a perspective can be known to exist for certain or can be found, just the sight of this thing unfolding now"
and

"God is" aka " The manifestor of these sensations is, the thing I am part of is"

Only two things.

The idea of god does not have an existence independent of my mind, if i stopped thinking, all existence of "god" and the idea of a "god" completely disappear, I am aware of this, yet look, even with this very simple idea that shows clearly how god does not exist when I do not have that momentary conception... I am still saying god exists. How crazy!

Forget your wording, your language, your previous ideas, your concepts about my wrong use of concepts, you are still being a "caught in illusions noob", wake up, don't be like them.

It is sad that so many intelligent men on earth have forgotten their source... just realize where you come from, and recognize its divinity.

All the atheists and agnostics are fools that are still caught in their intelligence. I previously thought you agreed with this.

[Dennis Mahar]

This thing doing its thing is human nature.

[Dennis Mahar]

John,

God is your concept.

when I say the thing doing its thing is human nature.
there are possibilities for human nature.
Human nature is a context creator.

This God you have conceptually is a pawn in your Context.

Remember when you popped up.
Your Announcement.
The presentation of your Calling Card.

You said let's form a posse of Sages.

We can get some followers for fun and profit and live in Fiji.
lot's of people are doing it.
they are getting 100,000 hits.

Might I suggest your Context is 'easy money' or 'free money' in order to experience a life of pleasure.

Non-duality is a pawn for Context Creators in order to capture 'easy money' in order to experience a life of pleasure.

I like you John, the enthusiasm etc..
it's just that when God people are up and about it's got the sniff of a power play.

[Dennis Mahar]

I'm willing to cut a deal John.

I'll live in fiji with your girlfriend and look after the finances.

I'll rent public speaking places all around the world.
organise flights, hotels and first class hookers.
You can travel from place to place thrilling the crowds.
We'll sell books and Cd's at the door.
All sales and donations are to be by credit card only.
Those funds will be deposited to an account in my name only.

We''ll set a target of $10 mil. after expenses.

When the 10 mil. is notched up you can come home to us.

We can sip pina coladas at sunset and have a good laugh about it.

I'm preparing the contracts now.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

I was thinking more like a youtube channel, but that works too.

And I have had less than 5c ( the lowest amount in cash in australia) for over 6 months. I don't buy anything or go anywhere that costs, and I don't eat much. You think I'm talking about doing the normal desire style things because I have desire? I don't care much if I am here or there, and its because I have little attachment and interest that I want to entertain myself with these things.

Anyway, its all good, in 5 seconds of being on these forums I had already seen that everyone on them had big interest in arguing and talking about nothing, and little interest in collaboration, progression, or taking action, of any kind whatsoever, for themselves or for others, the same way almost everyone else alive will waste their potential, not knowing they can very easily make things happen, if they would speak up.

[Dennis Mahar]

You're a Saint and we're not.
Nice move.

[Pam Seeback]

Now that is a surprise. I just broke my talking to a truly intelligent girl virginity. Pam, you are in the group, and you shall be cyber wooed.

A little cyber-metaphoric foreplay from Pam has never been and never will be, in the group:

A spiritual man sees nothing new or old, only the truth of the silence of the singular-plurality of I and the Father [Spirit] are One, the singular being the silence of stillness and the plural being the silence of movement of every spirit of the Father's conception. A silence that is neither new or old, always here and now. A silence of stillness and movement that is always an individual truth of the spirit of God. Jesus did not say "we and the Father are One" or "us and the Father are One", no, of his deep wisdom of Spirit of his conscience of righteousness, he declared "I and the Father are One."

The singular-plurality of the Spirit of God is the righteousness of God revealed, a righteousness that nullifies the self-righteous projections of man who declares God to be this or that human idea or ideal or collection of human ideas or ideals.

Your idea/ideal of a divine curriculum = we and the Father are One = ignorance = self-righteousness. Your cross awaits.

Was it as good for you as it was for me? ;-)

[Dennis Mahar]

consider this.

This human being you showed up in.
Uses you.
IT thinks.
IT feels.
IT tricks you to Identify with IT.

IT doesn't use you for love.
IT uses you for survival.

IT uses you to dominate and avoid domination.
IT's a cunt of an animal.

Get over IT.

not saying that's true, just consider it.
like a consideration that looks out on the ordinary, everyday world.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Dennis,

The mistake you have made is saying "IT" uses "me". I only exist as it, as the feelings. I have not been tricked to identify with it, I am witnessing the thoughts and feelings of it identifying with its thoughts and feelings.

There is the awareness that it is only an it, but there is no way to "get over it", all experience is "it".

Movingalways

Yes, because Jesus had recognized the divinity of everything and the divinity of himself, flowing with his thoughts and feelings, recognizing his words are not his own but gods. All of wisdom comes from recognizing the divinity, even now, in these thoughts and in the thoughts you have which will react to them.

He said "I" because no one had recognized their oneness with what is called the father, not because they weren't one with the father. Jesus specifically pointed out that he wanted to show them the way so that they could "become completely one", meaning it is in their ability, if they would only recognize.

How can one be considered self-righteous when recognizing, in the moment, that there is no "self", only divine sensual experience, aka, the father's manifestations? Is it not in fact that you are taking someone who is recognizing the miracle of their own existence and thoughts, and then going on to call them self-righteous for recognizing the divine nature of everything and themselves?

The point is, "we" are already one. It is closer to ignorance to think that you are anything but "one with the father", whether you have recognized it or are still caught in it, you are still one.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Now that is a surprise. I just broke my talking to a truly intelligent girl virginity. Pam, you are in the group, and you shall be cyber wooed.

A little cyber-metaphoric foreplay from Pam has never been and never will be, in the group:

...

Was it as good for you as it was for me? ;-)

;)

[Dennis Mahar]

Don't lie.
IT uses you because you're often complaining, feeling a lack and pining to be a big shot.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

No, that is it, there is nothing but it, it expresses everything, and I'm not pining about anything

[Dennis Mahar]

That's good.
Buddha was talking about causes/conditions.
The causes of suffering.
Eliminating the causes of suffering.
Mental delusions, mental afflictions.
The experience of spotless mind.

Ask Brad about the art of deconditioning.
Do yourself a favour.

[Pam Seeback]

Movingalways

Yes, because Jesus had recognized the divinity of everything and the divinity of himself, flowing with his thoughts and feelings, recognizing his words are not his own but gods. All of wisdom comes from recognizing the divinity, even now, in these thoughts and in the thoughts you have which will react to them.

He said "I" because no one had recognized their oneness with what is called the father, not because they weren't one with the father. Jesus specifically pointed out that he wanted to show them the way so that they could "become completely one", meaning it is in their ability, if they would only recognize.

How can one be considered self-righteous when recognizing, in the moment, that there is no "self", only divine sensual experience, aka, the father's manifestations? Is it not in fact that you are taking someone who is recognizing the miracle of their own existence and thoughts, and then going on to call them self-righteous for recognizing the divine nature of everything and themselves?

The point is, "we" are already one. It is closer to ignorance to think that you are anything but "one with the father", whether you have recognized it or are still caught in it, you are still one.

SOW, I did not equate self-righteousness with the recognition of the miracle of one's own existence and thoughts, I said self-righteousness is the desire to turn this recognition into a curriculum for "we." As Nagarjuna said, do not mistake relative or concrete [everyday] truth with the absolute truth of emptiness of form [of concreteness]. As Jesus said, you cannot serve God and mammon.

Once oneness is realized, curricula is thrown away, never to be picked up again.

[Dennis Mahar]

Once oneness is realized, curricula is thrown away, never to be picked up again.

That's a difficult argument.

De Sade in his book Justine argued a Libertine position that if 'It does it all' then it is OK to kidnap, molest, rape, murder, steal in the ordinary/everyday world without ultimate consequences.

Whilst phenomenal existence is experienced the 2 truths remain very much in play.
Wisdom and Logic remain in play in order to attend to the elimination of causes/conditions giving rise to suffering.

John's fixed identity 'God' was not held by the Buddha because he saw what a cunt of an animal it turned a human being in to.

It is that which had Buddha call forth his condition as superior to Brahmin.

Consider the possibility that 'God' is not a fixed identity.
that 'God' is potentially a complete fucking idiot.
that you by your intelligence,
are coaching 'God' in a possibility of the elimination of suffering.
'God' is transformable.

[Pam Seeback]

movingalways: Once oneness is realized, curricula is thrown away, never to be picked up again.

Dennis: That's a difficult argument.

De Sade in his book Justine argued a Libertine position that if 'It does it all' then it is OK to kidnap, molest, rape, murder, steal in the ordinary/everyday world without ultimate consequences.

I'm not sure what this has to do with a curriculum, which is a course of study.

If one has oneness realization, they would have no desire to kidnap, molest, rape, murder or steal, as these behaviors are indicators of intense attachment to the earth.

Oneness realization while one remains in the world, or as you say while phenonomenal existence is experienced, is to continue to experience attachment [the two truths in play], but these attachments are mild or subtle in nature, mostly related to the maintenance of one's physical body and to keeping the mind active and alert.

Wisdom and Logic remain in play in order to attend to the elimination of causes/conditions giving rise to suffering.

Agreed, which I believe is what I am saying above.

[Dennis Mahar]

The emptiness realisation isn't oneness.

it's not one, not two.

countless atrocities, suffering arises from 'God is on my side'

He probably is 'cos he's a bit dumb.

It's 'God' who needs the curriculum and diploma.

Little kids kind of 'get it'.
They pray to IT,
please make mummy and daddy happy and peter the rabbit happy.

It's participatory.

[brad walker]

But only if I had access to a hive mind, which you seem hell bent on not being part of.

Did I not tell you we had god minds? You know you are seeing its incredible capability at every moment yet still ignore the potential?...One is asking you to join a god mind hive...

The Matrix sequels show a three-way battle between hive minds headed by Neo, Smith and the Deus ex Machina. Zion's strong and individualistic.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Dennis

You obviously do not have a belief or faith in God, as the Buddha didn't, but like I said, the Buddha shits, and you shit, and movingalways shits, just people, and more precisely, we are just little children, until you realize how weak your individual perspective is, how weak your mind is in relation to that which you are seeing, then you will never know for certainty that there is a stronger, higher mind, the cause of these miracles, and you getting caught up in " I shouldn't have concepts", " I can't do that because that's not how the buddha or lao tzu would have acted...


When in reality you have more of these dogmas and concepts then anyone, you can see them if you look in almost every single one of your comments, basing what is and what isn't on the words of other men, then you will know that you have not yet gone through deconditioning and renunciation enough, have not yet forgotten past and future completely, to stare serenely at the now, and as Confucius said, (while alive) "heaven means to be one with God", showing he had recognized the divinity and found heaven, something you have not done.

In fact Dennis, you are an atheist, or at least an agnostic. Isn't this an anti atheism post? Or was that a different one

Lao Tzu- directly believed in higher power
jesus- directly believed in higher power
Buddha- Didn't say there was, didn't deny possibility of

So shouldn't you be quick to jump in line and follow word for word what's been said? You should be in prayer and reverence every day child, yet instead, you shun that which asks only for recognition of its beauty, and you shun it completely, despite that it has given you life, that it is your father and you are one with it.

Listen to yourself, you will come around to this strong belief again, one you are only doubting, you do not truly believe it to be wrong and never could, your mind wants wisdom, it is only clouded.

This is the greatest ignorance of all men, to deny what they are and where they come from. Forget which ever ego makes you want to prove your point, for it is not ego making me want to preach this belief, but truth, for just a minute, I'm asking for one minute, forget everything you've ever heard about enlightenment, god, buddha, anything... look around, go outside, listen to yourself, and if you don't come back on here with belief, one day you will.

[Dennis Mahar]

bodies shit.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

I said self-righteousness is the desire to turn this recognition into a curriculum for "we."

Once oneness is realized, curricula is thrown away, never to be picked up again.

What is this curricula you are speaking of? The one Dennis kept bringing up saying it was a requirement to have a group? I never wanted a curricula, only a group, or is that not allowed in your rules?

it sounds like you both have huge curricula, thinking strictly one what is curricula and what is not curricula, what an enlightened person should be doing and isn't allowed to be doing, as if they are rules...

Forget the past and look around, do you see any boundaries? Any rules telling you what you should and shouldn't do?

Or would you say it is a lot more like a dream, where you are infinitely free?




Moving, do you have a belief in God? i thought you showed one, doesn't this mean you disagree with dennis on that subject?

Or is it that you guys don't want to be seen talking about a belief in God, not intelligent enough for you?

[SeekerOfWisdom]

bodies shit.

Tell me Dennis, what else is there but the experiences of the mind? Do you not go repeatedly to take shits? And does your mind not go with the body experience? Or was the Buddha in a state of meditation while on the privy?


The "blessed one" was actually as blessed as me or you, and Jesus, the son of god, was actually as blessed as you or me, he did not raise from the dead, he was only intelligent.


And honestly, in the words of complete and utter truth, these are not my words, I did not think to write them, I opened my eyes to this world and circumstances completed me, my thoughts were based on what I saw and how I was, which I had no control over, these words are not my own, so whose are they? What is the cause of this mind?

Open your eyes

[Dennis Mahar]

Is a dream a condition?

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Its a label which means nothing so stop being specific on words, didn't you listen to lao tzu when he said naming is the origin of all particular things? forget the implications of the words saying " oh no, thats a "condition" <(word, concept, dogma), and again, open your eyes, speak only to refer to other peoples direct experiences of consciousness, there is no other way to speak.