A Strategy For Sages to Survive as Travelling Vagrants

[Ryan Rudolph]

Sue,

Ryan, you were trying to make a point about the nature of the feminine. It really hasn’t come off. The reason it hasn’t can only be because you aren’t clear in your own mind as to what the nature of the feminine is

My point is that a woman’s desire to control men is largely governed by her need to take care of her offspring. Of course, she also uses men for her own selfish needs, and men do the same to women. However, a woman’s maternal instinct is very powerful, and she sacrifices much of her own needs for her offspring, and she expects the man to do the same thing. Basically having children is a sacrifice for both men and women. And women expect this sort of sacrifice by men, which is essentially a loss of freedom and integrity. A man needs to sacrifice all his energy to his own mind, not to a woman’s maternal desire to raise offspring.

Even if a woman chooses not to have children, and she marries a man, the control she has over him is probably still rooted in this unconscious desire women have to tame brute masculinity for the benefit of child rearing. If he lacks a sophisticated masculinity, then she becomes the masculine controller, which is just dangerous. Do not underestimate the power of the sexual/maternal impulse in the sexes desire to control and possess each other. And Sue, do you really think that I can capture the entirety of the feminine in one paragraph? Haven’t you read everything else I ever commented on?

I realize that the feminine is operating in both men and women, but a women's character is more feminine than masculine, and that is why she has such a difficult time with philosophy. And that is not to say that the typical man is more reasonable than her because he often invests what masculinity he has into superficial activities such as sports, weight-lifting, automobiles restoration, loud stereos, and all the rest of it. His masculinity is enslaved to the feminine impulse he has to impress women as a means to have sex with them. A 'real' man puts all his masculinity into the perfection of his own mind, and any woman he allows in his life is in a non-emotional, non-attached, non-sentimental capacity.

[Ryan Rudolph]

Alex,

Hamlet:
I did love you once.

Ophelia:
Indeed, my lord, you made me believe so.

Hamlet:
You should not have believ'd me, for virtue cannot so
inoculate our old stock but we shall relish of it. I lov'd you not.

Ophelia:
I was the more deceiv'd.

Hamlet:
Get thee to a nunn'ry, why woulds't thou be a breeder of
sinners?
_______________________________________________________________

"In this heartbreaking scene, it's hard to tell how much of what Hamlet says is sincere, and how much an act. The critics have never ceased arguing this question. We do know that his mother's recent remarriage has intensified Hamlet's sexual revulsion—he's recently likened the sexual act to tumbling in a sty.

"Here, the prince denies ever having loved Ophelia, right after claiming that he did love her once. This may be just a game Hamlet is playing, but perhaps he means that what seemed like love to him once now seems false and repulsive. Using a horticultural metaphor, he casts doubt on his own motives: the "old stock" (original nature) of man is so corrupt that the grafting of virtue can never wholly eradicate the "relish" (taste) of corruption. In his famous line "Get thee to a nunn'ry," he exhorts Ophelia to put herself away so that she may never breed sinners like Hamlet.

"Specialists in Shakespeare's bawdy language are fond of noting that "nunnery" was common Elizabethan slang for "brothel," and that therefore Hamlet's command is ironic and even more despairing than it seems. The pun would accord with the paradoxical nature of the prince's speech, but there is little evidence elsewhere in the scene that Hamlet intends a double entendre."

It seems to me that hamlet was just disgusted with the suffering caused by romantic love in general. His father was murdered due to a love affair. He witnessed all sorts of subtle political games happening within his own family due to the irrationality of the emotions. And he probably became acutely aware of some of his own polar emotional reactions he had due to his attraction/repulsion to Ophelia. His partial, but incomplete consciousness is what drove his over the edge.

Hamlet’s melancholy was probably caused by the loss of his father, combined with an overall disgust with the pursuit of happiness in general. He seemed to have the temperament to fall into deep depressions, with a feeling of meaninglessness/hopelessness, which often caused some of the more powerful philosophical rants of the play. And one of his only refuges was the mocking of Ophelia’s love for him. He unconsciously drove her insane to avoid being crazed himself. He was partially conscious enough to repel romance, but he still lashed out against her, as a means to overcome his immediate desire for her. It could of been a protection-mechanism to avoid being subsumed in romance, which he probably feared. However, either way, He seemed to be caught between heaven and hell, nirvana and samsara.

Its all open to interpretation I suppose, yet there is quite a bit of subtle psychology operating in the play. Actually, I think it was probably one of his better works, as it was one of his later plays, and one could see the maturity in his writing compared to earlier ones. 'Hamlet' captured much more psychological complexity than many of his earlier tragedies. He definitely improved as a writer, as he became more observant and knowledgeable of human nature.

[brokenhead]

A man needs to sacrifice all his energy to his own mind, not to a woman’s maternal desire to raise offspring.

Could you possibly sound more selfish, Ryan?

[Ryan Rudolph]

Brokenhead,

Could you possibly sound more selfish, Ryan?

Selfishness isn’t necessarily a bad thing. You see, I define most people as merely a collection of base desires, and nothing more. And so, to get involved with people, means exposing yourself to everything they want from you, and that it why it is so important to be supremely selfish because if not, people will use you constantly to gratify their own desires, whether it be your wife, your boss, or family members.

Basically, a sage is a such a solitary figure because he is the only person he can have a rational relationship with.

No one really has a "relationship" with anybody else, they merely use each other. A sage secretly knows this, and that is why he makes himself unapproachable, unavailable, and removed from contemporary social life. He knows it is a big sham.

Although, I’ll admit that I’m not totally removed from all social encounters with mediocre people, but that is only to keep some sanity because I think having some connection with people is necessary because if you spend too much time in solitude, it tends to be unhealthy for the mind.

[brokenhead]

No one really has a "relationship" with anybody else, they merely use each other. A sage secretly knows that, and this is why he makes himself unapproachable, unavailable, and removed from contemporary social life. He knows it is a big sham.

You need to fit in somewhere.

The "sham" is run by whom, exactly?

You sound like what you need is a good woman.

I hope you don't think I'm being too critical, Ryan, but where did you get that notion of a sage from? I don't believe you are being honest with yourself. I take it you are thirty-ish. Sagacity comes with time, I'm afraid. Don't cheat yourself out of human contact by chasing a dream of what you think a sage is supposed to be. Life is too short.

[Tomas]

A man needs to sacrifice all his energy to his own mind, not to a woman’s maternal desire to raise offspring.

Could you possibly sound more selfish, Ryan?

Even stranger that Ryan thinks so little of his mom and dad - and lives (under THEIR roof) with them!


.

[Ryan Rudolph]

Brokenhead,

You need to fit in somewhere.

The "sham" is run by whom, exactly?

You sound like what you need is a good woman.

I hope you don't think I'm being too critical, Ryan, but where did you get that notion of a sage from? I don't believe you are being honest with yourself. I take it you are thirty-ish. Sagacity comes with time, I'm afraid. Don't cheat yourself out of human contact by chasing a dream of what you think a sage is supposed to be. Life is too short.

It may sound extreme, but I’m not overly rigid in my definition of how a sage ought to live

For instance: living with a woman is not out of the question, but I would need to define the relationship a little differently than a typical relationship. If I ever lived with a woman, it would need to be non-physical, and she would need to be older, and no longer torturous to the soul, she would need to be past her sexual peak of attractiveness, yet not too ugly. A plain Jane I could tolerate, and one that sleeps in a separate room, yet shares living responsibilities. An intellectual that is capable of engaging on some subjects of interest. I don’t expect a woman to be an expert in philosophy, that is being unrealistic. But many intellectual women are capable of discussing some things.

So I haven’t ruled out such an arrangement, but I’m perfectly content living alone anyway.

[Tomas]

A man needs to sacrifice all his energy to his own mind, not to a woman’s maternal desire to raise offspring.

Could you possibly sound more selfish, Ryan?

Even stranger that Ryan thinks so little of his mom and dad - and lives (under THEIR roof) with them!


.

Oops! Guess this needs amending - Ryan now lives alone :-)


.

[Ataraxia]

It may sound extreme, but I’m not overly rigid in my definition of how a sage ought to live

For instance: living with a woman is not out of the question, but I would need to define the relationship a little differently than a typical relationship. If I ever lived with a woman, it would need to be non-physical, and she would need to be older, and no longer torturous to the soul, she would need to be past her sexual peak of attractiveness, yet not too ugly. A plain Jane I could tolerate, and one that sleeps in a separate room, yet shares living responsibilities. An intellectual that is capable of engaging on some subjects of interest. I don’t expect a woman to be an expert in philosophy, that is being unrealistic. But many intellectual women are capable of discussing some things.

So I haven’t ruled out such an arrangement, but I’m perfectly content living alone anyway.

Freud woulda had fun with you dude. ;)

[brokenhead]

If I ever lived with a woman, it would need to be non-physical, and she would need to be older, and no longer torturous to the soul, she would need to be past her sexual peak of attractiveness, yet not too ugly. A plain Jane I could tolerate, and one that sleeps in a separate room, yet shares living responsibilities. An intellectual that is capable of engaging on some subjects of interest. I don’t expect a woman to be an expert in philosophy, that is being unrealistic. But many intellectual women are capable of discussing some things.

Find a good lesbian to live with. That's not a joke. As long as you pull your own weight, you wouldn't find a truer friend.

[yougetajob]

Ryan,

Forget your income trust/ $5 a day thing. Just do what this guy does. The dude hasn't touched money in seven years.

Or, depending on how you look at it/how you feel about it, welfare could be a better option. I know I have some kind "strange" condition where going against my will day in and day out (getting up every morning to travel to some place that I don't want to be, to do things I don't want to do) renders me an absolute wreck. Perhaps you could be compensated for this. I currently am (though I try to keep to myself the "job" issue as the sole instigator as much as I can when I am being questioned by the authorities who sign my check - being depressed in this world is only accepteble in some instances - Modern life is fucking wonderful "you" are the problem :). So snap out of it! ).

If civilization and all that has come with it doesn't bring us to a point where our lives are actually more enjoyable than they were before, then imo the past ten thousand years have been one giant waste of everyone's time.

Here's an idea! If we must work, let's get busy working on things that will make our lives easier and more enojyable in the long run, and flush the rest. I might actually want to get out of bed in that case. Bring on the fucking singularity already!

[Shahrazad]

getajob,

Forget your income trust/ $5 a day thing. Just do what this guy does. The dude hasn't touched money in seven years.

Awesome! I'll try that as soon as I kick my youngest offspring out of the house (she'll be 18 in 8 months -- I wouldn't kick her out before that).

-

[yougetajob]

I posted that link just to show one possible way to see this issue. Very extreme? Yes. It's not something I have the desire to try myself either at the moment. But perhaps someday.

[Ryan Rudolph]

yougetajob,

Here's an idea! If we must work, let's get busy working on things that will make our lives easier and more enojyable in the long run, and flush the rest. I might actually want to get out of bed in that case. Bring on the fucking singularity already!

Unless you have an electrical engineering degree or a computer programming degree, then it is very difficult. Plus, I wouldn’t want to get stuck working for the wrong corporation because you might be forced to devote most of your time to projects that you don’t actually believe in yourself. I have often thought of starting my own software development company, where I do a lot of the accounting, organization, and running of the business end of it. However, it would be a very causal, slow paced operation with only a few employees, and we would concentrate on only creating a select number of programs that could make humanities life much easier.

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1. One idea for a program is something that analyzes similarities between genetic code patterns. It probably already exists, but I would want to study what has been created, and try to make it better somehow.

2. Or a user-friendly animation software that allows almost anyone to quickly create visual representations of relationships within reality.

3.Or work on voice recognition software to make it better, while also working on a vocal language translator, where you speak a word in the language that you know, and it will say its equivalent in another language.

4. Or a virtual reality quest game for kids that has subtle psychological tests and challenges. A sort of Sage RPG, where the obstacle of the game is to overcome your emotionalism. You might start off as a caveman and eventually grow into technological consciousness that grows to encompass an entire galaxy.

5. or I would like to study the present nanotechnolgical applications – and work to improve upon them.

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You would have to choose one, and specialize, dedicating some of your spare time into mastering it. In my opinion, labour isn’t as bad when you are your own master, and you work with a group of people that you respect somewhat. And those people do not put unrealistic work demands on each other because they all have respect for the body and the mind.

However, the real problem is finding the right people to work with, and generating enough capital to do you research and development. And meanwhile, trying to generate enough capital to pay those people for their time until you have created something that is marketable/desirable to the public.

[yougetajob]

Unless you have an electrical engineering degree or a computer programming degree, then it is very difficult. Plus, I wouldn’t want to get stuck working for the wrong corporation because you might be forced to devote most of your time to projects that you don’t actually believe in yourself.

Precisely.

1. One idea for a program is something that analyzes similarities between genetic code patterns. It probably already exists, but I would want to study what has been created, and try to make it better somehow.

2. Or a user-friendly animation software that allows almost anyone to quickly create visual representations of relationships within reality.

3.Or work on voice recognition software to make it better, while also working on a vocal language translator, where you speak a word in the language that you know, and it will say its equivalent in another language.

4. Or a virtual reality quest game for kids that has subtle psychological tests and challenges. A sort of Sage RPG, where the obstacle of the game is to overcome your emotionalism. You might start off as a caveman and eventually grow into technological consciousness that grows to encompass an entire galaxy.

5. or I would like to study the present nanotechnolgical applications – and work to improve upon them.

Those are all interesting ideas you have. Like you say, the problem is finding people who are on the same page. It would be very difficult to do. Plus, there are the practical issues that have to be factored in. Making enough money etc.

Myself, I can't find the motivation to do much on these lines. It seems like too much of an uphill battle. Though I do consider it from time to time.

It would be nice if gov'ts were a little more enouraging of such ideas. If we could get the general population to see the benefits of such projects, that would make things much easier too. In short, society and economies should be set up in a way where such things are rewarded.

Food (or perhaps more accurately hunger/nutrition) and shelter are the things I think should be addressed first (duh?). Just knocking out one of these would free up so much time that the likelihood of solving other "issues" we face would increase greatly.

[tek0]

yougetajob: "Here's an idea! If we must work, let's get busy working on things that will make our lives easier and more enojyable in the long run, and flush the rest. I might actually want to get out of bed in that case. Bring on the fucking singularity already!"



They be working on it so we don't have to.

More often than not the path into any number of the fields associated with advanced computing tends to be quite difficult to get into let alone make a big difference.


Some folks just have a running start in life that aids them into the fields they are predisposed to wheter economically, socially, or just plain academic bootstrapping.

So I am content to just keep asking "are we there yet?" when it comes to the Singularity or whatever they choose to call it when and if it occurs for the rest of humanity.


Chances are the high level peoples who have had contact with aliens or their craft have at least seen a taste of what AI is going to end up doing for our species in the long run.


Until then....Alex Jones for president!

[Ryan Rudolph]

yougetajob,

Myself, I can't find the motivation to do much on these lines. It seems like too much of an uphill battle. Though I do consider it from time to time.

yes, I have experimented with a few ideas myself, but as I have said, it is difficult to find skilled people to cooperate with. For instance: I've tried to get a few ideas off the ground once, but the computer programmers, and webmasters that I recruited could never see the same vision that I had, all my suggestions went unheard, and I found myself battling with their limited ideas. There was never unity in thought and action. And because so, I simply became the "boss', the guy that pays the worker every two weeks regardless of how close the objective was.

Ideally, you would need a small group of technical skilled people, and business leaders (who understood a bit of basic economics) would could see the importance in what they were doing, and were unified among a common vision, and even willing to dedicate portions of their time without pay, until a marketable product resulted.

There are only certain types of people who would go for it - such as the sage-type who isn't all that concerned about money, or a successful software developer that already made his money in the society, and is looking for projects that are more meaningful.

The worst type of person is the young ambitious male or female that is trying to get themselves established to live a mainstream life. The only vision these people have is tunnel vision, and at the end of the tunnel, they anticipate piles of cash. That is the wrong approach to creative work. What these people do not realize is that the right vision will inevitably make a lot of money, if the people are willing to suspend their greed, and work together long enough to create something of value, but workers demand immediate payment for their labor. Money is their only value, and they do not value contributing something of worth to future generations of humans.

[sue hindmarsh]

Ryan wrote:

As I stated before, I have no beef with labor, and how the economic system works in theory, my beef is with the irrationality of humans cooperating. You know, as corny as this sounds, the depiction of humanity in the future isn’t all that different from the bridge of the Star Trek Enterprise. A hierarchy of intelligent sentience, where each performs his or her own task without any ego, and each adheres to a common value system and morality driven objective. However, we are probably a few centuries away from that sort of advanced workplace, and advanced morality.

I'm not sure if you wish to be taken seriously or not about your description of the Star Trek Enterprise crew as being "without any ego" - because they obviously have egos, evident by the sea of emotion those characters inhabit. I'd be hoping for something better for our future than just a repeat of what we already have.

[Think]

we would be a rich yet homeless person. it works, and when people pity us, we spit in there face and snob it up.

i would donate to myself, so i could pay less tax.

[Toban]

Ryan, I've been thinking a lot about how to finance a sage lifestyle. I think the black/grey markets are ideal for a sage. You could make enough to support yourself with hardly any work (by growing weed, for example). Another idea is to do seasonal contract work (such as tree planting or fruit picking). Work for 2-3 months of the year and live very simply.

p.s. the income trust idea may not work as canadian trusts are going to be hit by new taxes in 2011.

[brokenhead]

The worst type of person is the young ambitious male or female that is trying to get themselves established to live a mainstream life. The only vision these people have is tunnel vision, and at the end of the tunnel, they anticipate piles of cash. That is the wrong approach to creative work. What these people do not realize is that the right vision will inevitably make a lot of money, if the people are willing to suspend their greed, and work together long enough to create something of value, but workers demand immediate payment for their labor. Money is their only value, and they do not value contributing something of worth to future generations of humans.

I have worked with such people and would hardly consider them "the worst type of person," but I know exactly what you mean. They are impatient people, slow to "get" the ideas or visions of others, which means that if others need to get their ideas across to them, then the onus of patience resides with them. In other words, they can't be bothered.

If you are speaking specifically of the workplace, it is my experience that the head of a group or team is largely reponsible for the environment of creativity or lack thereof. This is no small matter. The bottom line is, well, the bottom line. If an organization has sufficient funding, it can build a workforce in which the employees can pay their bills and concentrate on the task at hand. The further back in the pipeline a product is - say a software product - the more difficult it is to keep justifying funding. I worked at Unisys for a couple of years in Quality Assurance for a software product whose target customers were large-scale concerns, such as hospital chains and foreign governments. Money was tight, and developers were let go routinely. The marketplace is the final arbiter in such situations. The people I worked with were bright and creative and fun; I did not blame them when a few of them felt like they were on a sinking ship and therefore left for jobs elsewhere. You mentioned getting people to trust in a vision, Ryan. That's all well and good if the vison is sound. You are right that it takes a degree of selflessness to be a useful member of any team, but sooner or later, people in general realize that they have to look out for No. 1 if no one else seems to be doing it.

[Ryan Rudolph]

Sue,

I'm not sure if you wish to be taken seriously or not about your description of the Star Trek Enterprise crew as being "without any ego" - because they obviously have egos, evident by the sea of emotion those characters inhabit. I'd be hoping for something better for our future than just a repeat of what we already have

.

you must admit that they have far less ego than modern day workplaces. For instance: Discussions are very impersonal, small chat is avoided, they are united against more primal species, armed with a more sophisticated morality, and advanced technology. Each member is quite articulate, polite, focused and collected. It is a much more rational environment than how the present workplace functions. The present workplace is a zoo of children compared to many of the characters cooperating in these sci-fi films. And although, they are not totally without ego, the imaginations of the screenwriters were moving in the right direction. I think the writers of Star Trek wrote with the ideals of some sort of futuristic intellectual superman, but they didn't get it totally right, but how could they? they weren't totally rational either.

Toban,

Ryan, I've been thinking a lot about how to finance a sage lifestyle. I think the black/grey markets are ideal for a sage. You could make enough to support yourself with hardly any work (by growing weed, for example). Another idea is to do seasonal contract work (such as tree planting or fruit picking). Work for 2-3 months of the year and live very simply.

Growing marijuana is the easiest money you’ll ever make. It yields a ridiculous amount of money with very little labor. However, there are the ethical and criminal implications that are raised.

On the one hand, one could justify it by saying that marijuana doesn’t affect everyone the same way, as I know many unenlightened people who smoke it every day, and it doesn’t have much of an affect on their character or behavior.

However, then there is the counter-argument that one could cause negative karma to teenagers who decide to smoke it. But, one could make a counter that argument by saying that drug experimentation is a popular step for many youth, and youth will continue experimenting with drugs independently of what one does.

p.s. the income trust idea may not work as canadian trusts are going to be hit by new taxes in 2011.

Except for real estate income trusts, they are the only exemption, which is why I’ve invested in some shares. Moreover, I still remain intrigued by the possibility of financial stability derived from the high dividends of some select group of trusts and stocks.

Brokenhead,

The marketplace is the final arbiter in such situations. The people I worked with were bright and creative and fun; I did not blame them when a few of them felt like they were on a sinking ship and therefore left for jobs elsewhere. You mentioned getting people to trust in a vision, Ryan. That's all well and good if the vison is sound. You are right that it takes a degree of selflessness to be a useful member of any team, but sooner or later, people in general realize that they have to look out for No. 1 if no one else seems to be doing it.

That is why a creative project should be lead and run by individuals who are not dependent on a steady stream of income from that particular project, whether it is something they are doing on the side, whether they have already been successful in the economy, or what have you. I read an article that stated that some of the best applications ever created were developed by young college males in dorm rooms who didn’t feel the pressure of needing that pay check every two weeks, they could be creative careful-free of the consequences, and spend days and nights immersed in their craft. That is the sort of environment I'm talking about.

[yougetajob]

Ryan, I've been thinking a lot about how to finance a sage lifestyle. I think the black/grey markets are ideal for a sage. You could make enough to support yourself with hardly any work (by growing weed, for example). Another idea is to do seasonal contract work (such as tree planting or fruit picking). Work for 2-3 months of the year and live very simply.

I've thought about the crime thing. I'd probably be too nervous about being caught to really enjoy the benefits.

Seasonal contract work? That's a solid choice for some. But it's important to know what you are getting into. Anyone looking into things like tree planting, or oil field work, of course hear that it's difficult, but think "that it won't be so bad, for that much money I can bear anything". Don't be so sure. It's temporary sure, but it's not like ripping off a band-aid or something. I worked in pipeline construction for two months. Weeks 3 thru 8 were one of the most miserable periods of my entire life.