Faith

[brokenhead]

Recognize myself in it? I have no idea what he's trying to say. Why are you reading Chesterton? G. K. Chesterton is nothing to me.

Well, the Christian, or the 'Jew' for that matter, would have a hard time recognizing himself anyway. Chesterton is to me ages ago, I thought it might help at least to structure your thoughts on faith a bit. Never mind!

That borders on the offensive, FYI. As I have no ego, I cannot be offended. Be careful though saying such things in a room full of Sicilians with broken noses.

What I have "a hard time" with is people characterizing me or my beliefs for their convenience and for some reason thinking I should "recognize" myself in their characterization. And my thoughts on faith don't need structuring, it's something I am quite capable of doing for myself quite to my satisfaction. But thanks.

[brokenhead]

The Court, however, will take a brief recess. Even judges need beauty sleep. :)

Well, don't be brief on my account. Some things take time.
PS. The bailiff will show me to my cell.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

What I have "a hard time" with is people characterizing me or my beliefs for their convenience and for some reason thinking I should "recognize" myself in their characterization. And my thoughts on faith don't need structuring, it's something I am quite capable of doing for myself quite to my satisfaction. But thanks.

It might humble you to reread the exchange and see I was only wondering if you saw the similarities in reasoning between the (rather famous) work of Chesterton and the underlying tenet of your post. There are worse people to be compared to, I'd say. If for you or others the similarity is not there, it's fine. My mind works in mysterious ways at times.

The book's readable online btw.

That said, indeed I couldn't resist the remark about Christians (and many other religious folks) having a hard time recognizing themselves, as a holder of faith, in anything at all. The underlying psychology is interesting, it sort of defines them in a way. "No similarities!" It's a generalization of course.

[Alex Jacob]

Thins would get interesting if Dear Ole Diebert would ever reveal any part of what he thinks and feels himself, instead of always appearing from behind a foil.

And in respect to the self-consciousness of Christians and 'Jews', the capacity to see themselves, I think you are wrong. Not of course generally, generally no one really sees themselves. But specifically I think there are many religionists who have tremendous self-consciousness.

But what are you Diebert? Just an disincorporated voice coming out of the nothing?

;-)

[brokenhead]

And in respect to the self-consciousness of Christians and 'Jews', the capacity to see themselves, I think you are wrong. Not of course generally, generally no one really sees themselves. But specifically I think there are many religionists who have tremendous self-consciousness.

Gotta agree with Alex on this one. Especially the Jews. There is no other peope more aggressive in self-examination, often in a harsher, more unforgiving light that the most devout Nazi could dream of. Really, Diebert, you should read some Elie Wiesel or even Philip Roth.

[Relo]

I wouldn't think more reading would help, maybe some self analization of your emotions and simple understanding of why they arise, that is if we are meant to be giving pointers but of course don't take it seriously, that might be the whole case.

[brokenhead]

I wouldn't think more reading would help, maybe some self analization of your emotions and simple understanding of why they arise, that is if we are meant to be giving pointers but of course don't take it seriously, that might be the whole case.

What does "analization" mean? "Make an asshole out of"?

[Relo]

I wouldn't think more reading would help, maybe some self analization of your emotions and simple understanding of why they arise, that is if we are meant to be giving pointers but of course don't take it seriously, that might be the whole case.

What does "analization" mean? "Make an asshole out of"?

Seeing why we act the way we acted instead of trying to always fix it through actions that are seen as the next step. Taking the time to analyze what we do and how it could be changed for the better of yourself might help us with similar problems that arise just as the the ones before. If it means making an asshole out of someone or yourself and we see it as a positive way for moving on or feel that it is reasonable for growth or development, then sure, even for me and the ones around even if they aren't generally seen well on common terms.

Even to the point of wording from "we" to "you" can bring different arises and meanings to what is meant to be said.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

There is no other peope more aggressive in self-examination, often in a harsher, more unforgiving light that the most devout Nazi could dream of. Really, Diebert, you should read some Elie Wiesel or even Philip Roth.

Or Weininger. He might have even been so disgusted with it that he couldn't live on, who knows. The harshness sounds to me more like a familiar distortion, this desire of giving pain, not onto others then onto oneself. How religious!

Then again, it's all too human and I've written before at this place and I'll write it again: one cannot get more human than being Jew. The Archetypical human, reflecting all our "goods" and "bads"! And the will to truth is self-mutilation, after all. The poison delivers the cure, in some way, too.

Yes, Alex, I strive to be a disincorporated voice as much as possible. The voice of reason and truth was never very human to begin with. That's why it took in the eyes and ears of the people so often the shape of a god, divine miracle worker, Sophia or possession of some daemon, geist or manifestation of a higher spirit descending.

Not earthly but still bound by some appearance nevertheless; its inevitable downfall and limitation that will cause most of the words to have a rather short-term expiration date or to survive not very long outside the fridge either.

[Carl G]

maybe some self analization...

Sounds like something you're pretty deeply involved in, Relo.

[Tomas]

And in respect to the self-consciousness of Christians and 'Jews', the capacity to see themselves, I think you are wrong. Not of course generally, generally no one really sees themselves. But specifically I think there are many religionists who have tremendous self-consciousness.

Gotta agree with Alex on this one. Especially the Jews. There is no other peope more aggressive in self-examination, often in a harsher, more unforgiving light that the most devout Nazi could dream of. Really, Diebert, you should read some Elie Wiesel or even Philip Roth.

No time here to feel sorry for the jews religious practices. Any mother who would let some nut case scar up their male boys (circumcision) needs their head examined. Talk about a cult, they are it.

PS - Ever been to "israel" - see what the poor palestinian children have to put up with? kids killed every week by those IDF "jewish" snipers...

See how the other half live.



.

[elderwoodxxx]

Hello ALL

I am new here and have enjoyed reading your many discussions of truth, logic, god and awareness. It is my own understanding that truth is knowing ALL that we are in relation to ALL that we know we are not. Universal understanding of truths that are eternally valid are the words of truth, words of creation, consciousness and also known as the Word of God. Faith comes from knowing the truth in relation to ones 'be'ing. Many Christians place their faith in Jesus and are led along a graceful path to gain more understanding of him and their objective awareness/spiritual relation to the world. Those that choose to understand the objective nature of the infinite have automatic faith as they become aware that all things form the whole as One. This universal consciousness is what many now understand.

I have written much in my blog regarding awareness and truth and HOW to understand oneness as an individual and also in relation to the deity, the trinity. How we perceive thoughts and emotions leads one to understand ALL truth.

Below is a sample blog which you may find of interest.. I would also be most grateful for anothers perception and understanding, We learn as much from the other as we give, until we become masters of ourselves ;-)

Thank you for allowing me to find this forum which i know will yield ripe fruits ;-)
Wisdom and knowledge from understanding, experience and truth are the fountains of heaven and the foundation for man;-)

Wake up and see through the illusion we live in, or we may be forever hearing yet not perceiving, forever seeing yet blind. As Ghandi said an eye for an eye will make the whole world blind.

Amandaxxx

http://uk.blog.360.yahoo.com/elderwoodxxx

Hi All.
As the conversation is dealing with oneness of all that IS in relation to understanding and truth i thought i may NOW take this opportunity to invite you to read my blog in particular the latest few entries including comments as it talks a lot about universal understanding for perceiving TRUTH, esoteric yes, should be hidden? no.. All that is hidden is ones ability to believe in themselves, to 'see', perceive what IS and to transcend the illusion of negativity, which surrounds our minds creating confusion and doubt. The finite becomes the infinite, the intangible the tangible, fear and doubt become peace and knowing, illusion and deception become understanding, knowledge and wisdom, NOTHING is then impossible for the mind as it becomes aware of its place within the cosmos, fuelled by unconditional love and selflessness. May you enjoy an adventure of universal understanding of objective awareness for all things, as one understands and gains wisdom through knowledge and self-belief, we can walk out from the shadows and transcend to love and light
amandaxxx




Hi Amanda,
I have to say that I wish that I understood what you do at your age. I see you quote from Osho at the bottom of your page. I don't agree with every word he says but do agree with much of it. Is that because of my his ego or mine?

Imagine that as individuals we are all cells in a physical body. The whole body is very big comapred to the individuals who are very small. Yet each and every cell is connected to the whole and what affects the health of the whole, has some affect on each and every cell in the body.

Some cells 'realise' that they are part of the whole and indeed, there is information about the whole in every cell of our body but each cell is not the whole body. Then some individuals start to believe that they are so knowledgeable and powerful, that they are the whole, that they are God! Would that be correct? No, and again that would be the ego speaking and not the truth of who we really are. We are 'God' only in the sense that each is a part (a very small part) of the whole!



HI ALL THANK YOU FOR YOUR MESSAGE
Perceptions, which are infinite and limitless, enable an awakened spirit to grow in consciousness and understanding of all that IS. By perceiving all that IS not one is able to transcend by ‘seeing’ confusion and allowing new perception of understanding for all to then develop. This dissolves all negativity created in ones mind, keeping the awakened soul, awake! Understanding of All formed from experience leads directly to wisdom and new truth. New perceptions formed from love and light fuel ones energy and understanding of yet more. Power is a by product NOT the aim, for when one aims for power deception creeps in which creates illusion this is because of ‘desire’ which seeks outwardly from an individual. Outwardly desire fuels the ego leads to confusion and closes perception for the mind. We are one expressing as the many and many expressing as the one. We form the whole of all that IS and will be. We came from consciousness and lead the way in light. When all negativity has been dissolved from the confusion within minds on the planet then ALL will know the infinite and immortality that IS. When ALL that IS becomes known to one mind within the physical realm they become renewed physically clothed in love and light, (high energy vibration) once more. We all do create ourselves. Having now read the keystones of Thoth, he speaks perfectly clear to myself for all things and all that IS. As above so below.. we are our own mirrors fuelling our light as part of the whole, as ONE. In physical form we transcend ALL illusion, which has bound man throughout his history. Only when ALL man have equal universal eternal understanding for ALL that IS in relation to knowing all that is not then our world will transform into the heaven we perceive.
I quoted Osho because it gave valuable understanding to perceptions we ourselves create around us. Stages of awareness increase when one perceives more awareness of all that IS. The place of enlightenment is the mind at rest.. When the mind then perceives from an aware understanding one may create NEW TRUTH of ALL that IS by knowing ALL that has come before , balanced with all that we now know we are not. We are all that IS and not ALL that we are not. But until one can understand HOW to understand and perceive between the two, one still falls into the entrapments of illusion created from misunderstanding and thus more negativity, imbalance, illusion and discord. A balance comes when one perceives the harmony around one and thus ALL that IS. Negativity from confusion may then be trampled on by new UNDERSTANDING on a UNIVERSAL TIMELESS level You are what you perceive yourself to be. For ‘be’ing is all that you are.
What do I do at my age?? I seek understanding and have learnt the nature of ALL that IS. Thus I am able to know all that IS not. I am master of myself and One with all things, writing my understanding of consciousness and thereby fuelling the whole.

May this answer more questions for yourself, if you could pinpoint an area of perceived confusion which you have I will be more than happy to forward more understanding Love and light sweet souls

Amandaxxx