Practical steps to enlightenment

[truth_justice]

Greetings,

A lot of threads discuss enlightenment, yet few ever talk about the actual practical steps needed to get there. Therefore I call for a survey. That is, I encourage those who have achieved enlightenment, or are in the process to do so, to share their personal journey.

From all others I ask that you refrain from replying so that this thread contains only personal accounts of the journey to enlightenment. Perhaps discussion can take place in another thread.

[maestro]

According to me all you need is the capability to see thoughts feelings and their interplay in a clear (and thus fast) manner. You can throw all the mystical/mythical and metaphysical stuff in the dustbin.

You already have the basic equipment for it but it is lying weak due to not being used at all. It can only be developed through practice, so practice in every moment try to observe inside, till the observation becomes second nature. To keep motivation up you can read various books/ scriptures as they paint a rosy/grand picture of enlightenment and will keep you on track. If you are intelligent enough you will only keep the correct ideas from the books and throw the rest away on your own (as they will contradict what you see).

Also you must commit yourself to honesty, that is no idea is sacrosanct. If your observations repeatedly contradict an idea it should be reexamined and even possibly discarded.

[Greg Shantz]

Hi truth_justice,

For my personal journey to becoming enlightened, what I did was exhaust all possibilities besides enlightenment and then I was left with no other option but full commitment [to enlightenment].

Is this what you are looking for?

[Dan Rowden]

I deleted the duplicate thread as it was needless. As for the actual thread subject matter, I think Kevin's section, Stages of the Way from Poison for the Heart is as useful a guide to the practical matters of the path as anything that might be said in this thread.

[JustinZijlstra]

I deleted the duplicate thread as it was needless. As for the actual thread subject matter, I think Kevin's section, Stages of the Way from Poison for the Heart is as useful a guide to the practical matters of the path as anything that might be said in this thread.

Ever tried lulu.com? (Rethorical)

[sue hindmarsh]

truth_justice wrote:

A lot of threads discuss enlightenment, yet few ever talk about the actual practical steps needed to get there. Therefore I call for a survey. That is, I encourage those who have achieved enlightenment, or are in the process to do so, to share their personal journey.

You write that you have observed that "the actual practical steps" to enlightenment have rarely been "discussed"; which means that you already consider yourself knowledgeable as to what those steps are. Since that would logically have to be the case, it seems amiss of you to not begin by setting out clearly what you consider those “steps” to be.

I also question what your plans are for the information your survey attracts? Is it that you require such information so that you can check if your steps are correct or not? But if that is your reason, how could you be so sure that the steps have not already appeared in many threads?

Which is it?

[JustinZijlstra]

truth_justice wrote:

A lot of threads discuss enlightenment, yet few ever talk about the actual practical steps needed to get there. Therefore I call for a survey. That is, I encourage those who have achieved enlightenment, or are in the process to do so, to share their personal journey.

You write that you have observed that "the actual practical steps" to enlightenment have rarely been "discussed"; which means that you already consider yourself knowledgeable as to what those steps are. Since that would logically have to be the case, it seems amiss of you to not begin by setting out clearly what you consider those “steps” to be.

I also question what your plans are for the information your survey attracts? Is it that you require such information so that you can check if your steps are correct or not? But if that is your reason, how could you be so sure that the steps have not already appeared in many threads?

Which is it?

Lol,

Hi Sue :P

[truth_justice]

Hi truth_justice,

For my personal journey to becoming enlightened, what I did was exhaust all possibilities besides enlightenment and then I was left with no other option but full commitment [to enlightenment].

Is this what you are looking for?

More, tell me more. What were your possibilities? What difficulties were you having? Why did you have to exhaust all possibilities? What beliefs did you drop? Did you meditate? How often did you do it? When did you do it (morning, evening, or at night)? When it is better to meditate? Did you have a mentor? What literature did you read? What literature is better? What didn't work for you? What did work?

I deleted the duplicate thread as it was needless. As for the actual thread subject matter, I think Kevin's section, Stages of the Way from Poison for the Heart is as useful a guide to the practical matters of the path as anything that might be said in this thread.

That's fine. Thank you. I might ask you to do the same for this thread itself as I think it will become evident that people will do anything but give a direct answer which defeats the purpose of the post itself.

Anyway, Dan, listen, I was looking for the option to delete my account and I couldn't find it. Could you help me out?

You write that you have observed that "the actual practical steps" to enlightenment have rarely been "discussed"; which means that you already consider yourself knowledgeable as to what those steps are. Since that would logically have to be the case, it seems amiss of you to not begin by setting out clearly what you consider those “steps” to be.

Look, if I said "I have observed that no one in here has proved the Goldbach's Postulate", does that mean I know the proof?

It's ridiculous to claim that just because I'm aware of something, I actually know what it is in its entirety.

I also question what your plans are for the information your survey attracts?

I mentioned them (my plans) in the discussion thread. Also, see my next answer.

Which is it?

Neither. I know there are steps to be taken, but I don't know the steps. All I was looking for is for people to talk about their journey so that I, and perhaps others, can ask questions and get a bit more insight into the process so that I, and again perhaps others, can choose a path most suiting in taking the journey.

But if that is your reason, how could you be so sure that the steps have not already appeared in many threads?

Please point me to the threads that outline and discuss the actual specific steps. If there are such threads, please forgive my ignorance.

I think I have answered all your questions, perhaps you can do the same for me by answering the original post.

[Carl G]

truth_justice,

Please stop quizzing people as though the subject is "how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich."

First, this whole site is about the subject of enlightenment. Plus there are links at the top to other sections with more specific detail beyond what the discussions contain. Do your own research.

Second, the path to enlightenment is a vast and broad subject. Why would you think it could be contained in one thread here? You really expect people to describe their life experiences in full, writing for hours for your benefit. Would you ask a painter to offhandedly write a book about how to paint, just for you? How much would you pay? How much are you willing to pay for your enlightenment. I hope its more than the effort to type out the random questions you've scrawled in your above postings.

Seriously, I do appreciate your hunger regarding the subject, but you've got to systematize your approach in order for it to succeed. The answers you seek are within your reach.

[truth_justice]

Carl G,

You could have written something about your journey in as many words it took to criticize me. I never asked for a full story, or a summary, or any length of detail. You talking about your journey, even a step of it, is all I was looking for. However much detail you think is fair, is fair.

There is a sense in which I am interested in the actual steps, though at the moment I am more interested in how you did it. I don't mean the actual general steps, I mean the actual steps you took. If there are links that describe your journey, please point me to them. I appreciate the rest of your advice - I should do my own research. What was I thinking asking questions about enlightenment in an enlightenment forum?

[mikiel]

Greetings,

A lot of threads discuss enlightenment, yet few ever talk about the actual practical steps needed to get there. Therefore I call for a survey. That is, I encourage those who have achieved enlightenment, or are in the process to do so, to share their personal journey.

From all others I ask that you refrain from replying so that this thread contains only personal accounts of the journey to enlightenment. Perhaps discussion can take place in another thread.

First, I agree with Carl G, but will reply anyway, as I am here (on this forum) to share what I know, firsthand of enlightenment. I have also read biographies and enlightenment accounts from all major traditions and those without a 'tradition.' I am one of the latter.

There is no step-by-step program to (or recipe for) enlightenment. Even those with common roots (cultural or religious) have unique experiences leading to their awakening.

I, for instance do not advocate that everyone meditate for an hour a day for 25 yrs, then go to Hawaii and meditate for 8-10 hrs a day, then drift with the current out to sea for hours, face to face with death, and expect the current to loop back in and deliver one, half dead back to shore, devoid of all personal programs which comprise the illusory "self." But that's my short story made shorter.

You can find a brief account of "My Journey to Awakening" on my site at the following link:
http://www.consciousunity.org/MyJourneytoAwakening.html

mikiel

[Greg Shantz]

What were your possibilities?

Being a modern person.

What difficulties were you having?

Motivation.

Why did you have to exhaust all possibilities?

Because I am an idiot. :-)

What beliefs did you drop?

That approval from the herd is at all valuable.

Did you meditate?

Yes.

How often did you do it?

Whenever it happened.

When did you do it (morning, evening, or at night)?

All.

When it is better to meditate?

Yes.

Did you have a mentor?

Many.

What literature did you read?

Kierkegaard's religious writings. The Dhammapada. Thus Spake Zarathustra. The Gay Science.

What literature is better?

Depends on the person.

What didn't work for you?

Reading sliently. Sitting

What did work?

Reading aloud. Walking.

Hope this helps. :-)

[Carl G]

mikiel wrote,

I, for instance do not advocate that everyone meditate for an hour a day for 25 yrs, then go to Hawaii and meditate for 8-10 hrs a day, then drift with the current out to sea for hours, face to face with death, and expect the current to loop back in and deliver one, half dead back to shore, devoid of all personal programs which comprise the illusory "self." But that's my short story made shorter.

Lol. Nor do I advocate that everyone do a pipe ceremony for half an hour a day for 2.5 yrs, then go to Hawaii and drift around for 3 weeks before bobbing out to sea for 8-10 minutes trusting the ocean to deliver me back to shore, relieved of some personal programs. That's one part of my short story, made minuscule.

You and I are brothers, mikiel. Half brothers, at least. Or maybe I'm your son.

[Carl G]

For those wondering, the above post was not in jest.

[Shahrazad]

I have spent six to eight hour time segments out in the very deep Pacific Ocean struggling against very high-speed winds and water currents with nothing besides my body and a bathing suit. As you might suspect, I did not become enlightened, but the experiences were still awesome.

Please forgive the interruption, truth justice, and carry on.

[mikiel]

For those wondering, the above post was not in jest.

For anyone including Shahrazad who floats out to sea accidentally or otherwise after a long journey toward awakening, I suggest you take Carl's very dry humor with you as a mental floatation device, despite his disclaimer that his post was not in jest.

On the other hand, anyone who proposes that their journey to awakening is a good prescripton for everyone is undoubtably still just dreaming of Awakening and the riches that will come from the fame of having found the Holy Grail. (Don't buy it. ..And don't buy The Ascetic Path Is The Only Way either. It works well in the East, (and and makes starving to death easier and more noble), but it is still just a cultural/religious belief system.)

mikiel

mikiel

[truth_justice]

Thank you all. Greg Shantz, thanks for the further reply. I will not make further replies to this post.

[maestro]

I think it is a good idea for people to share their experiences and what worked and didn't work for them. Such a discussion is useful if the focus is on the psychological aspect of enlightenment. Which I think is the main aspect anyhow.

I also think that the board all but ignores this aspect of enlightenment:
Almost all discussions focus around femininity vs masculinity, or about inductive reasoning vs deducing reasoning, the views of moderators are so far out on both these topics that they invite hordes of argumentators.

[sue hindmarsh]

maestro,

If you believe the "psychological aspect of enlightenment" is "the main aspect", how could you consider the discussion of the "femininity vs masculinity" invalid; for it’s the very basis of psychology (unconsciousness vs consciousness)? Remaining ignorant of the consequences of the feminine blocks you from getting anywhere near enlightenment. You shall remain in 'Hell' until you take steps to awaken from her grasp.

[Steven]

If you believe the "psychological aspect of enlightenment" is "the main aspect"

There is no more fundamental aspect to anything seen by a human being.

how could you consider the discussion of the "femininity vs masculinity" invalid; for it’s the very basis of psychology (unconsciousness vs consciousness)?

The scientific basis for determining masculinity and feminitity are in chromosomes and hormones. Any applied masculinity or femininity to the psychology of a subject independant of its biological drivers comes through the misguided attribution of sex to the shared aspects of the human genotype, not its differences.

Remaining ignorant of the consequences of the feminine blocks you from getting anywhere near enlightenment. You shall remain in 'Hell' until you take steps to awaken from her grasp.

Hell is neither female, nor a place to fear, unless the subject is you and those that think like you.

[Dan Rowden]

Is it really that complex? I believe not. If your karma is to possess Bodhicitta, then run with it and follow your nose and instincts. What else is there? The path is heuristic in this sense (e.g. with things like meditative techniques, I, like, Greg, could never meditate sitting; I always found walking much better). If your karma isn't to possess Bodhicitta then go to the local nightclub and follow the girls. That may eventually change your karma anyway.

Can you cultivate Bodhicitta? Yes, if its your karma, otherwise you'd have no reason to try.

Can't see your karma, your values? Look to what disturbs you most and then look for its mirror image.

[Dan Rowden]

Anyway, Dan, listen, I was looking for the option to delete my account and I couldn't find it. Could you help me out?

I'm disinclined to. You need to learn some discipline here. Just don't post. Come back another time and you won't need to create a new one. Relax, for fuck's sake.

[Steven]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzy38qbvrZk

Beautiful.

[David Quinn]

Hungering after enlightenment with all of one's mind and heart - that is the very first step. The absolute sheer desire to break though into ultimate understanding.

If that desire is present, then everything else will follow - increased understanding, knowledge of the next steps, knowledge of how to meditate, etc.

Nothing can be achieved without this desire. The greatest of all the Buddhas could materialize before you and enunciate the steps to enlightenment in the clearest possible manner and it still wouldn't help you if you don't have that all-consuming desire to understand what is real.

How to whip up that desire? Well, that is something you are going to have to find within yourself. As Greg Shantz mentions, it helps to burn your bridges and cut off all other avenues of sustenance, such that it becomes a matter of life and death for you. A matter of enlightenment or bust.

-

[edit: corrected brides to bridges - DQ]

[sue hindmarsh]

David wrote:

it helps to burn your brides

And your bridges too!! ; )