Vipassana retreats

[Kelly Jones]

I'm glad to see we've reached the core of the problem.

Well, the ego is a bit different than other delusions.

I define the ego to be all delusions. The same belief creates all delusions. It is the belief that things inherently exist and are not causally created.

My reason tells me to lump all delusions together because delusions are delusions. They have one single identity, "delusion". They have one meaning.

I don't think you can see through [ego] by having a philosophical system of thought and applying it to experience.

This is a "philosophical system of thought" being applied to your experiences. Do you not see that?

The ego is too tricky for that, and it adapts to the new way of thinking so it's never truly seen through.

Delusion arises because of valuing it more than less.

It's probably the case that after a lot of experience no longer valuing delusional thoughts, and testing oneself in a range of situations, the physical brain processes that are responsible for delusion just dry up. It is probably the case that synapses are incapable of uptaking certain brain chemicals.

What's needed is some external means, like the discipline of mind and body with Vipassana.

So I reject this entirely. I'm reminded of a passage by Hakuin:

Eihei has said: "The experiencing of the manifold dharmas through oneself is delusion; the experiencing of oneself through the coming of the manifold dharmas is satori." This is just what I have been saying. This is the state of "mind and body discarded, discarded mind and body". It is like two mirrors mutually reflecting one another without even the shadow of an image between. Mind and the objects of mind are one and the same; things and oneself are not two. "A white horse enters the reed flowers; snow is piled up in a silver bowl."

and

In the Shurangama Sutra the Buddha says, "You have continued to undergo transmigration in the cycle of birth and death from the beginningless past right on up to your present existence because you have acknowledged a thief as your son and heir and thus have remained unaware of the fundamental and changeless truth of your own true nature."

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[sschaula]

I define the ego to be all delusions.

That's obviously not a good definition.

I am done discussing the rest. What I said stands, and your arguments are too weak to even consider.

[Kelly Jones]

That's honest enough.

Isn't it great to live in this mind, where, once we've stopped running, the truth we're afraid of, will still be there for us to deal with?

[sschaula]

Must be that time of month.

[Kevin Solway]

Kevin: It's not clear by your reply--were these courses Vipassana?

Some of them were.

I clicked on the Vipassana link, and there are numerous centers available to you Australians.
Kevin, would you consider doing one of the 10 day retreats?

I would consider it if my ordinary life wasn't almost exactly like a retreat.

It is a useful thing to do for people who are searching for a spiritual path.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

I would consider it if my ordinary life wasn't almost exactly like a retreat.

This is an interesting quote. Kevin, would you describe for us what your ordinary life is like? The schedule you keep and how regimented or not it is, the activities you do on a regular basis and how you schedule them (from the mundane cooking and cleaning through the spiritual meditation, reading, etc.)? I would be interested to know how you go through an average day, week, month, season, and year.
.

[Kevin Solway]

would you describe for us what your ordinary life is like?.

In short, I consider myself to be entirely alone. And I mean entirely alone. Even if I'm in a crowd I have the feeling that I'm far out in the desert, or in remote space.

A thousand people will be telling me what to do or how I should behave, but it's as though they're not even there, because I will make up my own mind, in my own good time.

I am alone as the creator of the Universe.

[David Quinn]

To answer Toban's question, I haven't been on any vipassana retreat. Judging from its description, vipassana is something that I have been doing for the past twenty years, except in a more intelligent form.

The fact remains that a vipassana retreat can be quite useful to help a philosopher to shatter his delusions. Intellectual understanding doesn't get you very far unless the understanding is lived by. I think this is where a vipassana retreat could really speed the progress of a thinker: if he is weak in faith and/or discipline, this would be an excellent opportunity to challenge himself to live by his understanding and drop his comforting but delusional beliefs.

I agree that it would probably help those who are weak in faith or discipline. But if you're not lacking in those areas, then it probably wouldn't really do much for you.

But having said that, I wouldn't be averse to doing it at some stage. A holiday out in the country sounds pretty attractive to me.

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[integral]

David: do you think that you would derive any benefit from a Vipassana retreat at this point in your life?

From reading over information on these retreats, it seems to me that they would expose any subtle weaknesses.
I mean, no talking for 10 days, working in isolation, 10 hours of meditiaton a day, almost no coping mechanisms to fall back on, structured schedule, etc.

[David Quinn]

It sounds like how I lived for most of my twenties, and much of my life since. At this particular point in time, I would certainly enjoy being away from the computer for 10 days.

You haven't done one of these retreats yourself?

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[integral]

It sounds like how I lived for most of my twenties, and much of my life since.

Wow--that kind of discipline in everyday life is alien to a layman like myself.

You haven't done one of these retreats yourself?

Not yet--going to my first one in August.

[kid_nightflyer]

This link might be interesting for you:

http://www.vipassanaforum.com

[integral]

kid_nightflyer: I checked out the link.
Is this forum dedicated to the Vipassana retreats run by http://www.dhamma.org? Or is it for the practitioners of the specific style of vipassana meditation?

Also, have you been to a 10 day retreat?

[kid_nightflyer]

integral:

Thank you for your pm! The forum is not dedicated to a specific tradition of Vipassana meditation, although the majority of the users follow S.N. Goenka's teachings.

Yes, I went to a ten day retreat last summer and I may be attending a three day course this summer (the three day courses are only open to old students who have attended at least one ten day course).