lost in dark cave?

[со&am]

all it takes is this:
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courage, you need courage. intellect is not what shows you your own mind, courage is.

kindness, this is also important. you need this for yourself*, so you dont end up on a war see-saw with your mind. your mind will always try to play along, be kind to it, acknowledge it's contribution. or it will rebel.

will to play. if not for this, you would play some other game.

_____________________________________________________

* if you wish to practice kindness to self, practice kindness to others. people build habits of relation, and relate to themselves in the exact same way they relate to other people.

[Tharan]

What is there to be afraid of? Is this kindness? Should I be willing to play this game?

[BMcGilly07]

I was wondering how to weave those together.

Nice job, Tharan.

[со&am]

if you wish to practice kindness to self, practice kindness to others. people build habits of relation, and relate to themselves in the exact same way they relate to other people.

so, people practice the method with which they relate to themselves, when they relate with other people and the world etc. you can see a person, see how they relate to others, and know that this is how they relate to themselves also.

this is what christ was referring to when he said, 'judge and you will be judged'.

[Matt Gregory]

That's a silly theory.

[со&am]

What is there to be afraid of? Is this kindness? Should I be willing to play this game?

um

i dont know if i entirely get what you are asking, but i try to answer...

What is there to be afraid of?

you'd need to ask the individual.

courage is what allows you to see what is there, rather than what you want to see. people want to be something other than what they are, they are afraid that they are not what they want to be. courage is what allows you to be still in the wind of the ego and its desires etc.

truth is always there, the only reason it is not seen is because it is scary to look at if you have hopes and wishes about what it is... and so instead of seeing what is there, people instead see what they want to see.

Is this kindness?

um

is what kindness?

um. the kindness is for yourself, your mind. the mind cannot help but play along with meditation, what else is it supposed to do? if it's contribution is beaten down and ignored and so forth, it will react the same as if it were under an external pressure, like its momma... and it will rebel.

Should I be willing to play this game?

not at all, play any game you wish dude

[BMcGilly07]

co&am,

Likewise when Jesus is quoted as saying blessed are those who are persecuted in their own heart, found in the Gospel of Thomas.

Last night I read one of Alan Watts' essays in the compilation, 'This Is It.' I am going to have to reread it, but the title of one particular essay was 'Instinct, Intelligence, and Anxiety,' wherein he made particular emphasis on the fact of relationships as the realm of experience. His only flaw was leaving out a detailed discussion of relativity, and instead pigeonholed thinking in relationships as Eastern thinking versus thinking in 'nouns' as Western thinking.

As for your initial post:

courage, you need courage. intellect is not what shows you your own mind, courage is.

If you're lost in a dark cave, courage without intellect is foolishness running headlong. Without the mind to see your way out into the light, you're more likely to run into a wall.

kindness, this is also important. you need this for yourself*, so you dont end up on a war see-saw with your mind. your mind will always try to play along, be kind to it, acknowledge it's contribution. or it will rebel.

You're clearly promoting mindlessness here, not wisdom. There is a point where the discriminating mind becomes detrimental, but yet again you need the wisdom born of the discriminating mind to see where that line is. Kindness is not mere niceness, it's not a pat on the back, a "good job slugger," it is being direct, sincere and discerning in your judgment. If you act with blind kindness, you spread mindlessness- a black, invisible cancer.

will to play. if not for this, you would play some other game.

If your interest lies in games, there is always a loser. Or else you wind up like Mario, having jumped above and over the flag at the end of the board, you can only run and run forever going in circles with the same background passing every screen.

* if you wish to practice kindness to self, practice kindness to others. people build habits of relation, and relate to themselves in the exact same way they relate to other people.

Not true. What of the self-absorbed woman who spends four hours in the morning staring at her beauty in the mirror? She holds herself on a pedestal that rises up to the stars, but treats everyone she meets as beneath her, as worthless. Hardly treating others as she treats herself. There needs to be intelligent, wise judgment behind how one relates not only to himself, but also to others.

note: edited grammar

[Tharan]

What is there to be afraid of?

you'd need to ask the individual.

Which individual? You?

courage is what allows you to see what is there, rather than what you want to see. people want to be something other than what they are, they are afraid that they are not what they want to be. courage is what allows you to be still in the wind of the ego and its desires etc.

Why courage? Isn't courage of function of facing fear, all John Wayne-like? Why not simply alter your desires? If that, then there is no need for either fear or courage.

truth is always there, the only reason it is not seen is because it is scary to look at if you have hopes and wishes about what it is... and so instead of seeing what is there, people instead see what they want to see.

Why is it scary? Perhaps that is the more important question.

is what kindness?

I don't know....didn't you say it was important?

um. the kindness is for yourself, your mind. the mind cannot help but play along with meditation, what else is it supposed to do? if it's contribution is beaten down and ignored and so forth, it will react the same as if it were under an external pressure, like its momma... and it will rebel.

If it is for myself, what if myself enjoys meanness? Maybe I enjoy being mean; pushing down old ladies and kicking children and the like. Maybe it eases the pressure on my mind. Is that good? Do you approve?

Should I be willing to play this game?

not at all, play any game you wish dude

Great, so what's the point? You just wanted to tell me that whatever I am doing is ok by you?

[clyde]

co&am (Is this how you wish to be addressed?);

Thank you for initial post and to the others for their questions. Here is my reflection:

We are afraid to accept ourselves as we are. STOP.

So we imagine all sorts of things that we might be, such as ignorant or enlightened. But we know, at our core, our heart/mind, we are not what we imagine ourselves to be and that frightens us. STOP.

We need kindness, the kindness that allows us to accept ourselves as we actually are. But we can’t accept ourselves without accepting others and the limit of our acceptance of ourselves is exactly equal to the limit of our acceptance of others. STOP.

The will to play is the energy of engagement, our pleasure in communion.

Do no harm,
clyde

[Nick]

I don't value kindness, I value Truth.

[clyde]

I think that when one knows the truth, one values kindness.

[Trevor Salyzyn]

Being kind is not always the same thing as being truthful, and sometimes being kind leads away from the truth. Therefore, if one knows and values the truth, kindness is not also implied. Kindness is only one way among many to teach others.

[clyde]

Trevor;

You wrote,

Kindness is only one way among many to teach others.

I agree. The practice of kindness will lead one to realize the truth as knowing the truth will lead one to value kindness.

Do no harm,
clyde

[LooF]

one that is not kind will never see anything past himself

[Matt Gregory]

That's just wishful thinking on your part, Clyde. People who need kindness or who need to practice kindness will never realize Truth as they're too weak to deal with it. Weak people can't handle morality.

[LooF]

That's just wishful thinking on your part, Clyde. People who need kindness or who need to practice kindness will never realize Truth as they're too weak to deal with it. Weak people can't handle morality.

do you believe that a human that has been given no kindness or has given no kindness will be strong?

[Matt Gregory]

No, I think a need is a weakness. It doesn't really matter what the need consists of, whether it's kindness or sex or heroin or what, it's desire that's the real problem, not meanness.

[clyde]

I understand that some human beings think of kindness, which is to act with compassion, as weakness. But to act with compassion requires the courage to see things as they are, which is to know the truth, and the courage to act based on that clarity of vision. Human beings who are weak (or fear) will not be kind.

Do no harm,
clyde

[Matt Gregory]

Well, steel yourself, because you missed my point. I didn't say kindness is weakness.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

Well, steel yourself, because you missed my point. I didn't say kindness is weakness.

True - he said that need is weakness. Not paying attention is also weakness.

[clyde]

Matt (& Elizabeth);

I did not miss your point and I was aware that you wrote “need”, as you did in your initial reply to me; but then I hadn’t written about “need”, only practicing kindness. My response was prompted by your post, but was not meant to address your post directly, or I would have addressed you as I do here.

That said, I do not agree that all needs are a weakness, if by weakness you mean a character flaw. I do not consider my need for air, water and food a weakness.

Do no harm,
clyde

[LooF]

i agree

it is true that desire brings weakness

one is never weak who knows he has all he needs at every moment