Why I know no one is enlightened here

[sschaula]

Elizabeth,

I'm sorry if multi-tasking is too difficult for you.

It's hard nowadays with all the thinking going on.

No, when I'm wrong, I admit it. What is going over your head at the moment is that I am often right.

Right about...? You're just right?

I'm glad you enjoyed this. I, however, am getting bored with the banter. Go on and play with the other little boys now, I'm going to start paying more attention to the grown-ups again.

Good. I prefer games to.....this.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

No, when I'm wrong, I admit it. What is going over your head at the moment is that I am often right.

Right about...? You're just right?

The comment was in response to:

Now on a more serious note - I like how you girls avoid directly answering questions. Is it hard to say "oh, I was wrong"?

Wrong about...? I couldn't find what you were referring to, but I recalled

It may have come across in my "tone" towards you, that I consider you irrational.

You are establishing a pattern of blanket statements; so yes, in response to your blanket statement requesting that I say that I am just wrong (in general), it is appropriate for me to return with a blanket statement that in general, I am often "right."

Elizabeth,

Quote:
I'm sorry if multi-tasking is too difficult for you.

Scott:
It's hard nowadays with all the thinking going on.

What are you doing on a philosphy board if thinking makes things difficult for you?

[David Quinn]

I don't know whether Kevin has banned "sky" for deleting past posts, but I've done so.

From the very beginning, I could tell by her writing style that sky has no respect for other people, and now she is confirming it by sabotaging this forum.

It's ironic, but not surprising, that those who praise the value of "compassion" the most are usually the ones who respect others the least. We had an almost identical case a few weeks ago with "spiritual_ emergency".

People who praise compassion and non-judgmentalism above all else usually do it out of a defensive mind-set, in which they seek to eliminate all potential threats posed by the consciousness of others. In essence, they want the world to stop judging them. They want people to jettison truth and clarity of thought in favour of mindlessly being nice to one another.

It is a case of a passive ego with low self-esteem trying to bring everyone down to their own lowly level. This, they pretend, is the highest moral value open to humanity and a central feature of enlightenment. Can there be anything more evil and disgusting than this?

In any case, I've written to "sky" privately and said that she may rejoin the forum under another name, but only on the proviso that she does not delete any past posts again. I don't expect her to hold to this promise.

-

[sschaula]

Elizabeth,

The comment was in response to:
scott wrote:

Now on a more serious note - I like how you girls avoid directly answering questions. Is it hard to say "oh, I was wrong"?

Wrong about...? I couldn't find what you were referring to

Don't you remember our original conversation in this topic? You were saying enlightened ones can come and go from the game at will. That was wrong.

That was the only thing we were ever really talking about...the rest was just banter.

You are establishing a pattern of blanket statements; so yes, in response to your blanket statement requesting that I say that I am just wrong (in general), it is appropriate for me to return with a blanket statement that in general, I am often "right."

You can do anything you want.

What are you doing on a philosphy board if thinking makes things difficult for you?

You misunderstood what I said. Multitasking is difficult for me because of thinking.

[Jamesh]

I presume sky is psyche on this thread, on Thomas Knierim's forum.

The Genius Forum, and its particular brand of 'philosophy'

[Carl G]

The sage helps others, and more specifically the world, simply by being a sage. It is not necessary for the sage to "feel the need" to serve.

In what way does the sage help others by being a sage?

The sage helps to maintain the balance of the world, by counterbalancing evil with good. And by upgrading the vibration of the space everywhere he/she is, affecting everyone and everything in that space in a positive manner.

How did you come to know that a sage helps others by being a sage?

Personal experience.

How do you know it's TRUE? How do you know it's not just a belief you have?

By observing the effect.

Direct teaching is another matter. It depends on temperament and circumstances.

Which means what?

A sage may or may not become a teacher of students in a formal manner, depending on his/her temperament for teaching. And depending on circumstances such as timing, proximity, and priority, for attracting students.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

Elizabeth,

The comment was in response to:
scott wrote:

Now on a more serious note - I like how you girls avoid directly answering questions. Is it hard to say "oh, I was wrong"?

Wrong about...? I couldn't find what you were referring to

Don't you remember our original conversation in this topic? You were saying enlightened ones can come and go from the game at will. That was wrong.

That was the only thing we were ever really talking about...the rest was just banter.

Oh, okay - the topic was so far removed from the request that the connection was too vague for me to see. I believe that I am right on that, and you believe that I am wrong. We have a difference of opinion, and unless you or someone else explains logically and rationally how my position is wrong, I will continue to believe that I am right.

Multitasking is difficult for me because of thinking.

That is what I understood you to say.

[sschaula]

Elizabeth,

Oh, okay - the topic was so far removed from the request that the connection was too vague for me to see. I believe that I am right on that, and you believe that I am wrong. We have a difference of opinion, and unless you or someone else explains logically and rationally how my position is wrong, I will continue to believe that I am right.

That's like saying "I will continue to believe in the tooth fairy, unless you can show me that she doesn't exist!"

I explained enough about my stance earlier in this thread. I'm sure you won't go back and reconsider...because this forum isn't about that. It's about strutting your stuff.

[sschaula]

Carl,

The sage helps to maintain the balance of the world, by counterbalancing evil with good. And by upgrading the vibration of the space everywhere he/she is, affecting everyone and everything in that space in a positive manner.

There are differing opinions out there on this. One is that the Tao is above both good and evil...the nondualistic view. That once enlightened, the sage may do things which seem evil to some people (like not answering their questions, and not eating or bathing, not having sex, etc).

Aren't good and evil just human conceptions?
Does the world really depending on balancing good and evil?
How do you know an enlightened person upgrades the vibrations of the space of everywhere they go?
I'm guessing that one is from personal experience? :-)
What is a "positive" thing, for the mind that knows no delusion?

Personal experience.

That answer is good enough for me, because it's good enough for you. I would have answered it the same way, because I don't usually take the time out of my day to please annoying people.

Yet, it'd be very wise for the both of us to listen to annoying people when they're making good points, or trying to stimulate rationality and clarity by asking pointed questions.

A sage may or may not become a teacher of students in a formal manner, depending on his/her temperament for teaching. And depending on circumstances such as timing, proximity, and priority, for attracting students.

Oh, yes I agree with that. It makes sense.

[Carl G]

Scott,

Aren't good and evil just human conceptions?

No.

Does the world really depending on balancing good and evil?

This world (Earth) does. It could easily be swallowed up by evil, if not for the counterbalance provided by, among other things, sages.

How do you know an enlightened person upgrades the vibrations of the space of everywhere they go?
I'm guessing that one is from personal experience? :-)

I didn't say enlightened person, I said sage. Enlightened is actually not part of my vocabulary.

And yes, personal experience. But isn't it obvious. It is, in effect, true by definition. Because all is connected, someone/thing of higher vibration must upgrade any lower vibration in his/her/its presence.

Do you not feel better when you enter a forest after a rain?

What is a "positive" thing, for the mind that knows no delusion?

Life-affirming, creative, conscious, having to do with agape love, or as the sages here say, "promoting wisdom."

[Trevor Salyzyn]

Scott,

That's like saying "I will continue to believe in the tooth fairy, unless you can show me that she doesn't exist!"

That analogy doesn't quite fit, since she wasn't making a claim about existence. It's more like she's trying to make a claim about the colour of the tooth fairy's eyes.

Actually, that's still wrong. She's convinced about a quality possessed by all people who claim to have another quality that she doesn't have, before even knowing with certainty that the latter quality even exists. A person blind from birth would be wise never to speak about sight; even if he mirrors exactly what everyone tells him, everyone who claims to have sight could be lying.

[sschaula]

Trevor,

A person blind from birth would be wise never to speak about sight; even if he mirrors exactly what everyone tells him, everyone who claims to have sight could be lying.

Yep, that's true, Trevor. My analogy didn't really fit...but whatever.

Carl,

Quote:
Aren't good and evil just human conceptions?

No.

Does the animal kingdom have this concept of good and evil? Do the trees and the seas?

Quote:
Does the world really depending on balancing good and evil?

This world (Earth) does. It could easily be swallowed up by evil, if not for the counterbalance provided by, among other things, sages.

How could the world be swallowed up by evil? Do you mean humanity? The world, to me, is a big planet...and the only thing that can really swallow it up is the Sun if something crazy happens like a change in the size of the Sun.

Quote:
How do you know an enlightened person upgrades the vibrations of the space of everywhere they go?
I'm guessing that one is from personal experience? :-)

I didn't say enlightened person, I said sage. Enlightened is actually not part of my vocabulary.

Okay. What is a sage then?

And yes, personal experience. But isn't it obvious. It is, in effect, true by definition. Because all is connected, someone/thing of higher vibration must upgrade any lower vibration in his/her/its presence.

That would be true, if the sage had a higher vibration. Why or how do sages have higher vibrations than the rest of the world?

Do you not feel better when you enter a forest after a rain?

I also feel better when I enter a forest before a rain...just because it's nature. It's relaxing. Probably also because there are so many trees, which are good to be around since they respire our wastes into the things we need to survive.

Quote:
What is a "positive" thing, for the mind that knows no delusion?

Life-affirming, creative, conscious, having to do with agape love, or as the sages here say, "promoting wisdom."

Those things are all in the delusional mindframe. The opposite of life-affirming is life-denying. Creative..uncreative. Conscious..unconscious. Loving...hating, or fearing. Promoting wisdom...promoting delusion....

You can say "I'm not affirming enough life today" and strive to become more life-affirming...same for the rest.

So what makes these things any different from the rest of the world's misconceptions?

[Carl G]

Carl,

Aren't good and evil just human conceptions?

Carl: No.

Does the animal kingdom have this concept of good and evil? Do the trees and the seas?

No, not to any significant exent. I was speaking of other levels of existence, angelic/demonic for instance, and certain alien cultures.

Carl: This world (Earth)...could easily be swallowed up by evil, if not for the counterbalance provided by, among other things, sages.

How could the world be swallowed up by evil? Do you mean humanity? The world, to me, is a big planet...and the only thing that can really swallow it up is the Sun if something crazy happens like a change in the size of the Sun.

By swallow up, I meant evil could totally dominate the human psyche and culture, to the eventual exclusion of good.

I didn't say enlightened person, I said sage. Enlightened is actually not part of my vocabulary.

Okay. What is a sage then?

The word sage means wise. A sage is a wise one, or, more practically, one who thinks, speaks, and acts wisely. This is a person who has sufficiently awakened to see at least certain things clearly (but who has not necessarily reached a state of complete realization). There may be thousands of sages alive on Earth at any time, but only tens of true adepts. And perhaps only one or two Buddhas, if that's what one wishes to call them.

And yes, personal experience. But isn't it obvious. It is, in effect, true by definition. Because all is connected, someone/thing of higher vibration must upgrade any lower vibration in his/her/its presence.

That would be true, if the sage had a higher vibration. Why or how do sages have higher vibrations than the rest of the world?

Vibration means level of refinement. Refinement of the raw energy of which we are made. Refinement of the "self" by self work on one's issues, and strengthening of one's weaknesses. Coming into balance. And aligning one's will with the Will of God.

Do you not feel better when you enter a forest after a rain?

I also feel better when I enter a forest before a rain...just because it's nature. It's relaxing. Probably also because there are so many trees, which are good to be around since they respire our wastes into the things we need to survive.

Just because it's nature? Why do you suppose it's relaxing?

And because trees take in your carbon dioxide and respire oxygen? Our pyschic pollution is also washed by the purity of the natural enviornment, though often we resist this benefit fiercely.

What is a "positive" thing, for the mind that knows no delusion?

Life-affirming, creative, conscious, having to do with agape love, or as the sages here say, "promoting wisdom."

Those things are all in the delusional mindframe. The opposite of life-affirming is life-denying. Creative..uncreative. Conscious..unconscious. Loving...hating, or fearing. Promoting wisdom...promoting delusion....

You can say "I'm not affirming enough life today" and strive to become more life-affirming...same for the rest.

So what makes these things any different from the rest of the world's misconceptions?

How are these things misconceptions? And, how is it misconceived to promote these things in the world?

[sschaula]

Carl,

"Does the animal kingdom have this concept of good and evil? Do the trees and the seas?"

No, not to any significant exent. I was speaking of other levels of existence, angelic/demonic for instance, and certain alien cultures.

Level of existence which....I am not aware of. I don't think those exist. Also, how do you know that angels have the same right and wrong that humans do? Or aliens? Have you ever met an angel or an alien?

"How could the world be swallowed up by evil? Do you mean humanity? The world, to me, is a big planet...and the only thing that can really swallow it up is the Sun if something crazy happens like a change in the size of the Sun."

By swallow up, I meant evil could totally dominate the human psyche and culture, to the eventual exclusion of good.

That's possible. Yet, do you have proof that sages prevent this? Do you have any proof that it could ever happen?

"Okay. What is a sage then?"

The word sage means wise. A sage is a wise one, or, more practically, one who thinks, speaks, and acts wisely. This is a person who has sufficiently awakened to see at least certain things clearly (but who has not necessarily reached a state of complete realization). There may be thousands of sages alive on Earth at any time, but only tens of true adepts. And perhaps only one or two Buddhas, if that's what one wishes to call them.

What's the difference between an adept and a Buddha?

"That would be true, if the sage had a higher vibration. Why or how do sages have higher vibrations than the rest of the world?"

Vibration means level of refinement. Refinement of the raw energy of which we are made. Refinement of the "self" by self work on one's issues, and strengthening of one's weaknesses. Coming into balance. And aligning one's will with the Will of God.

Okay, I'll agree with you on that one.

"I also feel better when I enter a forest before a rain...just because it's nature. It's relaxing. Probably also because there are so many trees, which are good to be around since they respire our wastes into the things we need to survive."

Just because it's nature? Why do you suppose it's relaxing?

And because trees take in your carbon dioxide and respire oxygen? Our pyschic pollution is also washed by the purity of the natural enviornment, though often we resist this benefit fiercely.

So you're saying a forest is relaxing because the energy there is more refined? Care to explain more of what you mean about this?

"What is a "positive" thing, for the mind that knows no delusion?"

Life-affirming, creative, conscious, having to do with agape love, or as the sages here say, "promoting wisdom."

"Those things are all in the delusional mindframe. The opposite of life-affirming is life-denying. Creative..uncreative. Conscious..unconscious. Loving...hating, or fearing. Promoting wisdom...promoting delusion....

You can say "I'm not affirming enough life today" and strive to become more life-affirming...same for the rest.

So what makes these things any different from the rest of the world's misconceptions?"

How are these things misconceptions? And, how is it misconceived to promote these things in the world?

Because they're dualistic, and subjective. Because it's not coming from wisdom, which is based in nonduality.

[Carl G]

Scott,

Carl,

I was speaking of other levels of existence, angelic/demonic for instance, and certain alien cultures.

Level of existence which....I am not aware of. I don't think those exist. Also, how do you know that angels have the same right and wrong that humans do? Or aliens? Have you ever met an angel or an alien?

I didn't say right and wrong, I said good and evil. Angels are good by definition so it is obvious that they are part of the duality, of which they would be conscious.

As for personal experience, yes I have felt the presence of both angelic and alien, and seen evidence of their existence.

By swallow up, I meant evil could totally dominate the human psyche and culture, to the eventual exclusion of good.

That's possible. Yet, do you have proof that sages prevent this? Do you have any proof that it could ever happen?

Proof? Proof? I can barely prove that I exist.

However, by careful observation, over time, from an increasingly elevated vantage point, you yourself will see sufficient evidence of how things work.

What's the difference between an adept and a Buddha?

An adept would be a fully realized person, and a Buddha would be fully perfected. The difference would be that a Buddha would be in a permanent state of realization, and the adept would still experience moments of non-perfection.

So you're saying a forest is relaxing because the energy there is more refined? Care to explain more of what you mean about this?

The energy is more pure than that of the average person, hence one is lifted by one's proximity to it. It has a cleansing effect if one allows that.

Walk in the woods and your mind clears, your body quickens, you release of toxins in the face of this purity. Useless thoughts and emotions are swept away. This allows you to take in healing energy from the Greater Force, manifested through nature. It's not just oxygen we breathe into us.

Expire, inspire. Do you not feel inspired,clarified, and renewed by particularly creative and positive music or words on a page?

Life-affirming, creative, conscious, having to do with agape love, or as the sages here say, "promoting wisdom."

So what makes these things any different from the rest of the world's misconceptions?"

How are these things misconceptions? And, how is it misconceived to promote these things in the world?

Because they're dualistic, and subjective. Because it's not coming from wisdom, which is based in nonduality.

Wisdom is based in nonduality but encompasses duality. We live in a dualistic world, and so our efforts to help others and the world in general must follow those lines (though rooted in oneness).

And subjective? I don't think so. High moral standards, as expressed through life-affirmation, creativity, consciousness, and agape love, are pretty rock solid beneficial for the whole. And are given to us from the whole, so to speak, to promote.

[sschaula]

Carl,

I didn't say right and wrong, I said good and evil. Angels are good by definition so it is obvious that they are part of the duality, of which they would be conscious.

As for personal experience, yes I have felt the presence of both angelic and alien, and seen evidence of their existence.

Okay.

While I admit that such things may exist, they are not part of my world. In my world, good and evil is the same as right and wrong. Also, good and evil is only for humans and nothing else in the universe.

Proof? Proof? I can barely prove that I exist.

However, by careful observation, over time, from an increasingly elevated vantage point, you yourself will see sufficient evidence of how things work.

I'm sure that statement is true. Yet, this is a philosophical forum. It isn't Zen master's paradise. Showing someone a direct way to whatever you think is wisdom isn't as good as showing someone your good reasoning...or if you don't have any, then at least some evidence.

You say you can barely prove that you exist. That's true...maybe you don't.

An adept would be a fully realized person, and a Buddha would be fully perfected. The difference would be that a Buddha would be in a permanent state of realization, and the adept would still experience moments of non-perfection.

Okay.

Now how did you find this out? Reading books and talking to people that have read books, or direct experience?

The energy is more pure than that of the average person, hence one is lifted by one's proximity to it. It has a cleansing effect if one allows that.

Walk in the woods and your mind clears, your body quickens, you release of toxins in the face of this purity. Useless thoughts and emotions are swept away. This allows you to take in healing energy from the Greater Force, manifested through nature. It's not just oxygen we breathe into us.

Expire, inspire. Do you not feel inspired,clarified, and renewed by particularly creative and positive music or words on a page?

I do feel all of those things when I breathe or walk through the woods. But I also feel those things when I'm not believing in delusions. Belief in angels, sages, enlightenment, energy, Greater Force, etc....clutters and confuses me, so that my energy flows all over the place.

If I focus only on what I know to be true and have no false beliefs, the energy goes the way it's supposed to.

Wisdom is based in nonduality but encompasses duality. We live in a dualistic world, and so our efforts to help others and the world in general must follow those lines (though rooted in oneness).

The truth and the false can't both exist in one's mind. Either you're fully enlightened or you're fully unenlightened. Either you're fully aware of reality, or you're fully living in a dream world. All of the knowledge you gain here at the Genius Forum is still part of the dream. Higher vibrations are still part of it. The truth takes you far away from this dualism.

To others, it may still seem like dualism. You may seem to have a very high vibration. You may seem wise. Yet to yourself, all of these conceptions are partial and don't encompass the truth. They don't contain the fullness of reality.

Wisdom doesn't encompass duality, because duality isn't real. We don't live in a dualistic world. We live in reality, and our minds are unenlightened.

Our efforts to help others should only come after we have helped ourselves or have been helped. If we don't know where we're going, it's very likely that we'll never get there.

And subjective? I don't think so. High moral standards, as expressed through life-affirmation, creativity, consciousness, and agape love, are pretty rock solid beneficial for the whole. And are given to us from the whole, so to speak, to promote.

They are subjective. What's a high moral standard to you may not be to me. Something you call creative may be seen as copycatting to me. Love may be a completely different thing in your mind than in my own.

[brokenhead]

I think I'm attributing correctly:
Scott:

How could the world be swallowed up by evil? Do you mean humanity? The world, to me, is a big planet...and the only thing that can really swallow it up is the Sun if something crazy happens like a change in the size of the Sun.

Carl G:

By swallow up, I meant evil could totally dominate the human psyche and culture, to the eventual exclusion of good.

Scott:

That's possible. Yet, do you have proof that sages prevent this? Do you have any proof that it could ever happen?

I don't think it is possible, but that's because the sage, the adept, and the buddha won't let it happen. Your asking for proof that it could happen in their absence is spurious because they are not absent. I know it is a lot to swallow, Scott. But if you believe we are the children of our Creator, it makes sense that He is, always, taking care of His children. How? Personally? Maybe. But surely through His agents, beings created to tend the flock, so to speak. I have witnessed ample evidence of this in my own life. Usually these beings are other humans, but who says they have to be?
I promise you that if you look for proof, you will find it. If you don't, it might just find you.

[brokenhead]

Now how did you find this out? Reading books and talking to people that have read books, or direct experience?

Suddenly reading books is a bad thing?

[sschaula]

The point of why I continue typing here is to bring people down to earth from the clouds of their minds.

Take a walk outside. Does that reality have anything to do with any of this? Does the wind talk about God watching over you? Do the birds sing about angels and demons? Do the cars pump out philosophy instead of fumes?

My point is that none of this kind of talk is realistic. When you're stripped of your belief system, all of this talk goes with it. So why continue to maintain it?

Logic breaks it down. That's what I've been doing here. Using clarity and reasoning....at least the best that I can.

But people's beliefs want to resist logic all of the time. Oh well.

[Carl G]

Scott,

However, by careful observation, over time, from an increasingly elevated vantage point, you yourself will see sufficient evidence of how things work.

I'm sure that statement is true. Yet, this is a philosophical forum. It isn't Zen master's paradise. Showing someone a direct way to whatever you think is wisdom isn't as good as showing someone your good reasoning...or if you don't have any, then at least some evidence.

The subject is vast. Too much to write for a Saturday afternoon, or evening. Perhaps we will break it down over time.

An adept would be a fully realized person, and a Buddha would be fully perfected. The difference would be that a Buddha would be in a permanent state of realization, and the adept would still experience moments of non-perfection.

Okay.

Now how did you find this out? Reading books and talking to people that have read books, or direct experience?

Direct experience, and contact with elevated persons.

The truth and the false can't both exist in one's mind.

Of course they can. I can think of something false, and then something true in immediate succession. They aren't mutually exclusive.

Either you're fully enlightened or you're fully unenlightened. Either you're fully aware of reality, or you're fully living in a dream world.

False. Realization is a step by step process. It happens in stages.

All of the knowledge you gain here at the Genius Forum is still part of the dream. Higher vibrations are still part of it.The truth takes you far away from this dualism.

Define "the dream." And how you equate it with "this dualism." Possibly you are confusing things.

To others, it may still seem like dualism. You may seem to have a very high vibration. You may seem wise. Yet to yourself, all of these conceptions are partial and don't encompass the truth. They don't contain the fullness of reality.

One has to start somewhere.

Wisdom doesn't encompass duality, because duality isn't real. We don't live in a dualistic world. We live in reality, and our minds are unenlightened.

I understand what you are saying, but you are speaking in abstract terms. In fact, the bio-units we call our bodies, though illusional in one sense, do reside in a collective reality we call Earth. And here on Earth, duality exists. So on one level, at least, we have to deal with it.

And subjective? I don't think so. High moral standards, as expressed through life-affirmation, creativity, consciousness, and agape love, are pretty rock solid beneficial for the whole. And are given to us from the whole, so to speak, to promote.

They are subjective. What's a high moral standard to you may not be to me. Something you call creative may be seen as copycatting to me. Love may be a completely different thing in your mind than in my own.

High moral standard is objective. Maybe you do not recognize this. Interpretations may vary, in correct or incorrect ways, but the code is there.

[sschaula]

Carl,

The subject is vast. Too much to write for a Saturday afternoon, or evening. Perhaps we will break it down over time.

If you prefer.

Direct experience, and contact with elevated persons.

Is it possible that your experience was impacted by what you have read in books?

Of course they can. I can think of something false, and then something true in immediate succession. They aren't mutually exclusive.

What's an example of something true?

False. Realization is a step by step process. It happens in stages.

I disagree. If you know the truth, then delusion can't get a foothold in your mind.

Define "the dream." And how you equate it with "this dualism." Possibly you are confusing things.

The dream is illusions and delusions. Dualism is illusions and delusions.

I understand what you are saying, but you are speaking in abstract terms. In fact, the bio-units we call our bodies, though illusional in one sense, do reside in a collective reality we call Earth. And here on Earth, duality exists. So on one level, at least, we have to deal with it.

There aren't levels to reality. There is one level of truth, and many levels of delusion. Because we're deluded, we have to deal with...but if we were enlightened, the way I define it, then we wouldn't have to deal with it because it doesn't truly exist.

High moral standard is objective. Maybe you do not recognize this. Interpretations may vary, in correct or incorrect ways, but the code is there.

What do you mean?

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

this forum isn't about that. It's about strutting your stuff.

That's a strange interpretation. According to the title, this forum is about

- Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment -
Truth, Courage, Honesty, Logic, Masculinity, Wisdom, Perfection

[sschaula]

How long have you been here Elizabeth?

[brokenhead]

Scott wrote:

There aren't levels to reality. There is one level of truth, and many levels of delusion. Because we're deluded, we have to deal with...but if we were enlightened, the way I define it, then we wouldn't have to deal with it because it doesn't truly exist.

I agree with this when it is useful for me to do so. If I allowed it to become more than simply one of the available modes of regarding the world, I would be doing myself a disservice! I don't claim to be able to explain a synchronicity, for example, but I recognize and understand one when it occurs.

In any given formal system of logic, there have to exist true statements that cannot be proven from within the system. That implies, to me, that a meta-system exists, and then we start to see steps or levels.

[sschaula]

Do you realize that your choice of which way to view the world is delusional?