Are your Posts a True Reflection of your Life?

[emma]

To build a beautiful building and yet live in a dirty shack next door has to be the height of despair/hypocrisy (ref Kierkkegaard) and a huge barrier to any form of Enlightenment I'd be interested to hear whether you live in the building of your most passionate/logical thoughts or in the shack.

I know I often visit this buiding but equally as often return to my dirty shack where I fight with others/worry about money and so on.........I lose sight of my higher thinking, do you? and if so what do you think could be done by self/others to avoid this situation/ (besides don't think so high/don't live so low)

[Cory Duchesne]

What to you is a beutiful building? What sort of values are you having a hard time sticking to?

I'd like to hear your description of the house that you think is beautiful.

[emma]

Belief in GOD is this beautiful building and as I get older I get closer to being a resident in it, but there is much unexplained...faith is a very difficult thing and I believe most people do nt believe in God because it is so difficult

What's your buidling?

[Cory Duchesne]

Emma: Belief in GOD is this beautiful building and as I get older I get closer to being a resident in it, but there is much unexplained...faith is a very difficult thing and I believe most people do nt believe in God because it is so difficult

What do you think is the most difficult thing about believing in God? Why do you think its easier to not believe in God?

Emma: What's your buidling?

My building is me not having any fear, hatred, despair, insecurity, sorrow, suffering, and hence delusion.

In a sense my building is simply a physiological change in my brain that makes me function perfectly, or as close to perfection as I am capable of functioning.

I'm just not clear about what exactly a perfect me would look like.

[emma]

CP wrote

What do you think is the most difficult thing about believing in God? Why do you think its easier to not believe in God?

There's another topic on conscious versus unconscious. I believe believing in GOD is becoming conscious and like birth its painful. You are constantly checking your thoughts feelings and actions, alwyas rooting out those that are incorrect (ie based on fear/anger/envy/insecurity etc ). ..and I do mean your every thought! many people would balk at that.
The ridicule is easy to bear if you do not speak of GOD. This internal struggle to be with GOD can make others think you are nuts. When you feel passionate to talk of wonderful GOD, you just know others (non-believers) will mock laugh and sneer, but you haqve to try and show them, you feel it is your duty.

Then there are those questions such as if there were a GOD why would he let babies die. The sort of questions people ask to justify their non-belief, the sort of questions only GOD can answer. believeing in something which requires faith does require a lot of Faith and this is harder to follow than say cold Logic

My building is me not having any fear, hatred, despair, insecurity, sorrow, suffering, and hence delusion.

In a sense my building is simply a physiological change in my brain that makes me function perfectly, or as close to perfection as I am capable of functioning.

I'm just not clear about what exactly a perfect me would look like.[/quote]

I too have to deal with my fear hatred, despair, and insecurity, Sorrow and suffering are things to learn from and a perfect you , I guess would look like the Perfect Thing that made you

re the physiological brain change thing is it a change of brain that will let you completely move to your new buiding or will thinking about your aspirations lead to a change in brain patterns?

[Cory Duchesne]

Emma asked:

the physiological brain change thing; is it a change of brain that will let you completely move to your new building or will thinking about your aspirations lead to a change in brain patterns?

Well, I think its just a matter of getting ones piorities straight.

Organizing a hierchy of priorities in a way that does truth the most justice is what seems most worthwhile to me.

I am still confused and unconfident in this regard. The thing I feel I need to do the most, is the thing that i feel requires an inconvenient level of freedom from emotional relationships, and I need an environment that is much more silent than the enviornments I find myself in most. The thing I am talking about is meditation. I need to take meditation more seriously and really understand what it means to totally empty my mind, to die to the world, and to become sensitive on a much more subtle level.

I feel I need to take a serious retreat from the busy-ness of life. But man, do I ever get distracted. It seems everyone around me is trying to get me to do something that serves their vanity. It hurts to be attatched to people. I hate them!

I am sensitive to my parents emotional instability, their pride/shame and vanity.

I have such hatred for them, yet there is such a fear of hurting them too badly. The thought of all of the weddings, funerals, and christmases that I am expected to proudly participate in through these next 20 years is harrowing for me. Then I have this morbid self-disecting introspection that tells me I'm not normal, that i'm sick, and that I need to work on becoming someone who can joyfully comprimise with family. ugh, such thoughts about family, friends and romantic relationshps are my greatest despair and loathing.

I feel if I don't whole heartedly retreat from soceity before I'm 30, then I'm never going to have the strenght to do it. I will be a very regretful old man if i dont take things to the extreme while I am young. But then again, I also fear that if I retreat from life too seriously and extremely, I won't suceed and thus I will find it even harder to return to the 'normal' world.

I'm not asking for anyones advice. (but if you feel a need to tell me something, I dont mind) I just thought this might be a valuable record of the human condition.

[Carl G]

My life is far richer than my posts could ever be, or ever convey. I do not have the time or reason to create art of my posts on any forum, though I have tried in the past. But I do create this in life, and of my life.

As for building, I have constructed literally and figuratively many types, from simple sapling huts to multi-story domiciles of thousands of square feet. Most assuredly, in the truest sense, I have been laying a massive deep foundation for most of my life, which is only now reaching the surface. Upon it I could set a city.

[emma]

CP wrote




CP wrote:


Well, I think its just a matter of getting ones piorities straight.

Organizing a hierchy of priorities in a way that does truth the most justice is what seems most worthwhile to me.

I am still confused and unconfident in this regard. The thing I feel I need to do the most, is the thing that i feel requires an inconvenient level of freedom from emotional relationships, and I need an environment that is much more silent than the enviornments I find myself in most. The thing I am talking about is meditation. I need to take meditation more seriously and really understand what it means to totally empty my mind, to die to the world, and to become sensitive on a much more subtle level.

Reltionship are essential for enlightenment, as is meditation/prayer. The two must be combined and the distractions you suffer, only show your resolve. But meditation is not lotus position/chanting, eastern marketed nonsense, it is reflection. Without a realtionship you are missing a lot to be reflected upon

I feel I need to take a serious retreat from the busy-ness of life. But man, do I ever get distracted. It seems everyone around me is trying to get me to do something that serves their vanity. It hurts to be attatched to people. I hate them!

People hurt/distract people, God makes people distract people to test people, you have to emrace the distraction as God given emrace it fully then return to your meditation. You dont hate anyone.

I am sensitive to my parents emotional instability, their pride/shame and vanity. I have such hatred for them, yet there is such a fear of hurting them too badly. The thought of all of the weddings, funerals, and christmases that I am expected to proudly participate in through these next 20 years is harrowing for me. Then I have this morbid self-disecting introspection that tells me I'm not normal, that i'm sick, and that I need to work on becoming someone who can joyfully comprimise with family. ugh, such thoughts about family, friends and romantic relationshps are my greatest despair and loathing......

This is where believeing in God is hard. You have to accept that we are all Gods children and that it is wrong to feel this way. Not morally wrong but that it hurts them and you also . Then fight your feelings and remember that God loves us all, including our families. But yes I felt the same way once........If you want the science its a passing phase and as new territory is reached with family and friends over time things become interesting .To look forward in such a faithless/despairing way is not only senying God/self and the importnat things in this world its also illogical. Remember too its important to love family/friens even enemeies with equal passion (now thats hard but with practice the Mum dad brothers even children bit gets easier /

I feel if I don't whole heartedly retreat from soceity before I'm 30, then I'm never going to have the strenght to do it.

Do what? Just work on what is negative not by isolating your mind in meditation but by honestly focussing on why you feel certain things. Then with absolute truth look again and ork out why you feel certain things.......Self-discovery is a first stepbut meditation can come anytime anywhere...you just have to think about your thinking

I will be a very regretful old man if i dont take things to the extreme while I am young. But then again, I also fear that if I retreat from life too seriously and extremely, I won't suceed and thus I will find it even harder to return to the 'normal' world.

Again what do you mean?? Have you been reading Buddhism?

I'm not asking for anyones advice. (but if you feel a need to tell me something, I dont mind) I just thought this might be a valuable record of the human condition.

Yes and I shouldn't give advice.even though it comes from the heart and is purely meant, it gives the wrong impressions sometimes, but completely emptying your mind and dying to the world takes you to an emptiness which becomes loneliness over time

Carl G wrote

My life is far richer than my posts could ever be, or ever convey. I do not have the time or reason to create art of my posts on any forum, though I have tried in the past. But I do create this in life, and of my life.

As for building, I have constructed literally and figuratively many types, from simple sapling huts to multi-story domiciles of thousands of square feet. Most assuredly, in the truest sense, I have been laying a massive deep foundation for most of my life, which is only now reaching the surface. Upon it I could set a city.

You are truly blessed

[Tharan]

Belief in God is difficult? I couldn't imagine a more easy thing to do. To notice the complexity of the Universe, the beauty of a child, the smell of spring flowers, how easy it would be to forget that incessant curiosity to know why, and to simply release oneself into the supportive arms of a knowing and loving God. Let him protect you and uplift you so that really all you need to do to be saved is to curl up into a little ball, suck your thumb, and GOO GOO GAH GAH like one of the those beautiful little babies.

God is love. Remember? Just love.

[Shardrol]

completely emptying your mind and dying to the world takes you to an emptiness which becomes loneliness over time

How do you know this? Have you actually emptied your mind & died to the world? Even if you had, how could you be sure that the experience would be the same for everyone?

O Tedium.
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[emma]

Tharan wrote

Belief in God is difficult? I couldn't imagine a more easy thing to do. To notice the complexity of the Universe, the beauty of a child, the smell of spring flowers, how easy it would be to forget that incessant curiosity to know why, and to simply release oneself into the supportive arms of a knowing and loving God. Let him protect you and uplift you so that really all you need to do to be saved is to curl up into a little ball, suck your thumb, and GOO GOO GAH GAH like one of the those beautiful little babies.

God is love. Remember? Just love.

Releasing oneself into the arms of a Loving God takes a great leap of faith, like walking bluidfold over a cliff.that is hard sometimes, but clearly not for you.I am pleased for you

I wrote
completely emptying your mind and dying to the world takes you to an emptiness which becomes loneliness over time


Shardroi wrote
How do you know this? Have you actually emptied your mind & died to the world? Even if you had, how could you be sure that the experience would be the same for everyone?
O Tedium.

O tedium , its because emptiness is just that and pronlongerd emptiness is dull.....pretty simple really

[emma]

.sorry forgot to make the final link.Dull=loneliness after a while

[emma]

So Tharan what's your building (besides ridiculing the beliefs of others which you do so well, a great skill, much needed)

[Trevor Salyzyn]

Releasing oneself into the arms of a Loving God takes a great leap of faith, like walking bluidfold over a cliff.

I don't think that's a very inspiring metaphor. In fact, I think it's downright stupid to walk blindfolded over the edge of a cliff. I'd take basejumping lessons first, and be sure to have all the appropriate gear, so as to glide majestically and safely to the ground below.

Can you give a metaphor for your leap of faith that doesn't sound like idiocy?

[Shardrol]

Emma:
completely emptying your mind and dying to the world takes you to an emptiness which becomes loneliness over time

Shardrol:
How do you know this? Have you actually emptied your mind & died to the world? Even if you had, how could you be sure that the experience would be the same for everyone?
O Tedium.

Emma:
O tedium , its because emptiness is just that and pronlongerd emptiness is dull.....pretty simple really

Prolonged emptiness cannot be dull because there is no one there to be bored or entertained.

Even if what you mean by 'emptiness' is merely lack of stimulation, yes this does cause boredom, but that kind of boredom is just a sign that the environment is not providing us with enough material to substantiate our existence, so we start to feel the fear of nonexistence. Rather than experience that we take boredom to be something that must immediately be remedied.

You didn't answer my question about whether you personally had emptied your mind & died to the world but just from the point of view of logic, how can that-which-is-dead-to-the-world possibly feel boredom or anything else?
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[emma]

M wrote

Can you give a metaphor for your leap of faith that doesn't sound like idiocy?

Reason and logic will get you to the edge of the cliff, the rest is a leap into the unknown . I'm sure that sounds like idiocy to you .When yiou are older you will be the first to laugh at new brekthroughs in thinking/science etc

S said

You didn't answer my question about whether you personally had emptied your mind & died to the world but just from the point of view of logic, how can that-which-is-dead-to-the-world possibly feel boredom or anything else?

yes I have .........when I was suicidal and happy to die . The thought comforted me for a while, I died in my mind and body then there was nothing, nothing at all for a couple of hours....... I was not me..then I got up, felt bored and made a cup of tea..There is nothing in nothingness....except a strange comfort for a while .until the boredom wakes you up

[Pye]

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mookestink asks of emma:

Can you give a metaphor for your leap of faith that doesn't sound like idiocy?

It has to sound like idiocy in order to be faith . . . .

emma and mookestink, I interject that I find emma's examples and general dialogue spot-on to Kierkegaard's notion of faith, in that it precisely must leap out of the realm of the logical and land squarely in the absurd, for that is what the movement is (for Kierkegaard) -- a movement beyond reason (the ethical, the universal) into the the entirely personal, particular of a person's faith. If there is any probability whatsoever that the thing you have faith in is actually there, then you are talking about knowledge (reason) and not faith. Faith is much more amazing than that to Kierkegaard, and perhaps to emma, too.

This be what Kierkegaard calls the "teleological suspension of the ethical." When he asks - is there a teleological suspension of the ethical (universal) - he is asking if there is a goal (telos) that stands beyond the ethical (universal) (which you understand as "universal" because the ethical seeks what is best for everyone; what could be known by everyone; what could be practiced by everyone.)

And he answers this question with a "yes" - that there is something that stands past, stands higher than the universal/collective, and that is the individual, who also moves past the universal-ethical when this individual stands alone with its faith - the only way it can stand.

In this sense, your forum moderators cannot profess to have faith at all, for they profess to have knowledge.

emma, I do not possess your degree of faith, at least not in this benign god, but I have appreciated watching a lot of what you are saying of it here. Indeed, it takes this passion . . . .

.

[emma]

Many thanks Pye..............I read K many years ago but it was DQ who rekindled my interest in him. Many others believe in what K believed in

I could necer understand the story of Abraham and Isaac, but there are big clues there as to what faith is as K points out .

Odd as well that to Muslims and Jews Abraham was a Patriarch .......the only thing agreed on (I'm woffling)

[Trevor Salyzyn]

Pye: You had me as soon as you agreed with me. It's idiocy.

No matter how much you fancy it up, with pretty redefinitions of the absurd, or nausea, or boredom, or what-have-you, at bottom, existentialism is stupidity.

and emma: it's not like I'm laughing at a new scientific breakthrough. I'm mocking a philosophic outlook that fell out of fashion in the 80's, and really should never have been in vogue in the first place. It's all over literature, people jumping out of windows at the end of a book or movie or play and then floating into nothingness. People hitting themselves in the head for no real reason at all. Your outlook deserves to be made fun of until everyone who holds it changes their mind or dies.

I don't like talking too much in forums -- so when I speak, it's usually because I have a good reason -- in this case, it's because you deserve a good, general, all-around smack. Of all the regulars, I'm having the hardest time taking anything you say seriously, because I don't even think you take a word of what you say seriously.

[emma]

I don't like talking too much in forums -- so when I speak, it's usually because I have a good reason -- in this case, it's because you deserve a good, general, all-around smack. Of all the regulars, I'm having the hardest time taking anything you say seriously, because I don't even think you take a word of what you say seriously.

You will have to smack me on both cheeks

I do take what I say seriously and my life is a reflection of this .......Is your life a reflection of your posts?

[Trevor Salyzyn]

emma,

Is your life a reflection of your posts?

I believe if someone were an exceedingly cautious thinker, they could get a fair idea what my life is like simply by reading my posts. But, there is just as much opportunity to be mislead. I'm afraid that I don't like talking overmuch about my life; unless you really must know something specific, I'm not going to be more helpful than this.

[emma]

You do not like talking about your life .yes keep it cold, logical and unemotional........That way you can hide your hypocrisy when you state in another topic you are logical, reationsl etc and then proceed to illogically insult Jews.... And at the same time hide what could be attacked in return.

But seriously how can I accept that you are logical, retional and down-to earth when you will not reveal yourself......No matter its not that important ...You aspire to be what you are not and there is no harm in that

[emma]

Ahh you've now told me a lot about your life on the other post..See how jabbing with a fork brings out much. To understand the argument you have to know the arguer.I turned my back on Judaism years ago and while I know it captures the essence of God somewhere within, Christianity is a good development of Gods

[Trevor Salyzyn]

emma,

Yes, I need to be jabbed with a fork to reveal things about my life. It works as a good reminder that a lot of what I say is out of context. I don't insult Jews illogically; I'm surrounded by them, and understand that a lot of the Jewish beliefs and models lead practicioners to behave in unsavoury ways. I don't mean the greedy Jew of medieval myth; I'm talking about stubborness, obsession with esoteric rites, us-or-them mentality, and overall backwardness.

If you must know, my life is the ideal of order, rigour, and habit. I do roughly the same thing every single day: picture Schopenhauer.

And, by the way, you were inadvertantly correct. A good section of my beliefs I adopted from Victor, although I have the advantage that I don't have to be a complete asshole to everyone I meet. I can choose to be civil, so when I give the rant about the practical benefits of insults, I've actually got another experience to compare it to.

[Pye]

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mookestink writes:

If you must know, my life is the ideal of order, rigour, and habit. I do roughly the same thing every single day: picture Schopenhauer.

This made me smile. Do you have a dog, mookestink? Schopenhauer at least had a dog. No friends, but a dog.

Somewhere exists a poignant quote of Nietzsche's* regarding Schopenhauer that the difference between having only one single friend and utterly no friends at all is the difference of a whole world. Schopenhauer, apparently, had no friends at all.

*(or words that effect :)

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