Humean Substances

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
Leyla Shen
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Re: Humean Substances

Post by Leyla Shen »

Dennis:
We wouldn't have to talk about this shit if there weren't 2 perspectives to operate out of.
There are many perspectives; logically sound or unsound, philosophic, emotional, scientific, reactionary, etc—and all of them “empty”, nevertheless.
The universe exists as a thing in itself independently.

The Universe is supported by a myriad array of causes/conditions therefore is not a thing in itself.

either way is an act of consciousness.
The universe is all that is, by definition. The word itself is a referent that encompasses both the idea “all that exists materially” and the reality of “all that exists materially”.

You are free, of course, to elaborate on that definition for the purposes of making your argument.

At best, all I can make (with a lot of guesswork) from the above is that you appear to be suggesting that the physicality of the universe is infinite?

Notwithstanding the wild guess above, when we add the premise of thingness and existence ("emptiness"), this is what your argument looks like:

1. All things lack inherent existence (things exist/are caused).
2. The universe is a thing without causes/exists independently (is a “thing in itself”—self-caused).
3. If (1) and (2), the universe is a thing in itself/self-caused.
4. The universe is supported by a myriad of causes/conditions (is not a “thing in itself”—not self-caused).
5. If (1) and (4) then: the universe is not a thing in itself/self-caused.

And, your argument as a whole seems to boil down to this:

6. The universe is both a thing in itself and is not a thing in itself (i.e., the universe is both uncaused/self-caused and caused).
7. THEREFORE: (either way) the universe is an act of consciousness.

So, my foremost questions to you are as follows:

a) What is a “thing in itself” if not a self-caused thing?
b) How is it that (1), (2) and (4) can all be true at the same time?
c) How does (7) follow from the stated premises?
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Dennis Mahar
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Re: Humean Substances

Post by Dennis Mahar »

You Leyla,

depend completely on causes and conditions.
You are none of those causes and conditions either individually or collectively,.
Despite that, take even one of those causes/conditions away and you disappear.
You have no power to exist from your own side.
Leyla Shen
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Re: Humean Substances

Post by Leyla Shen »

Answer the questions.
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Leyla Shen
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Re: Humean Substances

Post by Leyla Shen »

I, Dennis, am waiting.
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Dennis Mahar
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Re: Humean Substances

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Waiting for Godot.

to watch with hostile intent, lie in wait for
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Tomas
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Re: Humean Substances

Post by Tomas »

Leyla Shen wrote:I, Dennis, am waiting.
Think I'll read Alice In Wonderland a few hundred times.

Dennis may come up with something better than "it's empty and meaningless" by then.

But then again... maybe not.
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Dennis Mahar
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Re: Humean Substances

Post by Dennis Mahar »

to watch with hostile intent, lie in wait for
it's empty and meaningless that it's empty and meaningless.

emptiness
groundlessness
Leyla Shen
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Post by Leyla Shen »

Super Mantra Man wrote:
Waiting for Godot.

to watch with hostile intent, lie in wait for
And rather than answer my perfectly reasonable questions, you are caused to complain that I am caused to be hostile.

Go on, do it again: “ohm….”

~

Hi, Roddy. :)
Think I'll read Alice In Wonderland a few hundred times.
Yessss. It’s a brilliant book!

Certainly more substance than Dennis's amateur meddling with wisdom and enlightenment as self-hypnosis.
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Dennis Mahar
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Re: Humean Substances

Post by Dennis Mahar »

there's a kind of being, a way of being,
'party tricks' as a 'normal transmission continuum'
that is disclosed.
Zen!

that 'don't know' is telling.
is told,
taken full toll of
for whom the bell tolls
Zen!

an interruption in 'party tricks as normal transmission'.

disclosure,
an opening,
a clearing,
gateless gate.
Leyla Shen
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Re: Humean Substances

Post by Leyla Shen »

You're welcome.
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Dennis Mahar
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Re: Humean Substances

Post by Dennis Mahar »

You're welcome
That!
hello.
Leyla Shen
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Re: Humean Substances

Post by Leyla Shen »

:)

Hello, Dennis.
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Dennis Mahar
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Re: Humean Substances

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Hi honey.
Thankyou.
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chikoka
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Re: Humean Substances

Post by chikoka »

Russell wrote:
chikoka wrote:Beyond meaning is just a fancy way of saying its meaningless.
It's also more accurate in the context of my statement. The Infinite is transcendent of our own meaning making.
Why cant objective reality be also beyond meaning?
It encompasses consciousness too doesnt it?
Objective Reality, the Infinite, the Totality, eternal causation, God, etc., it's all the same in the end.
If you do beleive in an objective reallity then we are on the same page.

Sorry if i cant reply promptly, i'm not in control of how i manage my time right now.
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Russell Parr
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Re: Humean Substances

Post by Russell Parr »

What does objective reality mean for you?
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chikoka
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Re: Humean Substances

Post by chikoka »

Russell wrote:What does objective reality mean for you?
Didnt we just agree that its beyond meaning?
chikoka wrote:Quote:
Why cant objective reality be also beyond meaning?
It encompasses consciousness too doesnt it?

Objective Reality, the Infinite, the Totality, eternal causation, God, etc., it's all the same in the end.
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