Enlightenment - a return to the "bright".....

[Bob Michael]

Enlightenment - a return to the "bright" or the 'natural state'.

"From my earliest experience of life I have enjoyed a condition that I would call the "bright". As a baby I remember crawling around inquisitively with an incredible sense of joy, light, and freedom in the middle of my head that was bathed in energies freely moving down from above, up, around and down through my body and my heart. It was an expanding sphere of joy from the heart. And I was a radiant form, a source of energy, bliss, and light. I was the power of reality, a direct enjoyment and communication. I was the Heart, who lightens the mind and all things. I was the same as everyone and everything, except it became clear that others were unaware of the thing itself."

"Even as a little child I recognized it and knew it, and it was really not a matter of anything else. That awareness, that conscious enjoyment and space centered in the midst of the heart is the "bright". Very early in life I conceived a purpose in the "bright". It was to restore humor. Throughout my life I have been moved to find and communicate the fundamental source of humor to others.....Thus, my life has been an adventure of the knowledge and unfoldment of the "bright", which I have know to be the form of reality."

"The "bright" had seemed to fade in adolescence, but it had only become latent in the heart while I followed my adventure from the viewpoint of the mind. The heart had been my only teacher, and it continually broke through in various revelations until I returned to it, became it, and rose again as the "bright"."

".....my first twenty years were the gradual undermining of this certain existence by all the ordinary and traditional means of life."

"The first form of meditation enjoyed in my life was the "bright" of my childhood. It is also the ultimate one. But the "bright" of my childhood was not fitted to understanding. It was not supported by real consciousness. I perceived it, but I could not control it. And at last it disappeared against my wishes. Thus, I became devoted to a path of seeking, but it was aided by my earliest intuition of reality, the "bright". I was required to pursue the faculty of my own consciousness. And I needed to understand before I could finally create, sustain, and control the "bright", the Form of Reality."

(Franklin Jones [a.k.a. - Adi Da etc.] - 'The Knee of Listening')

[Ryan Rudolph]

To play devil's advocate here, I won't to question the notion that children have some predisposition to be connected to the energy of the source. From my experience, children are filled with energy, but for different reasons. First of all, early childhood is a period of rapid motor learning, and the hippocampus activates like crazy with emotions of 'novelty'. The emotions associated with novelty could be responsible for this glow or abundance of energy that children exhibit. Because when children are not subsumed in play, which is the fuel of 'that' energy, they are filled with unbridled and unrestricted desire for all things pleasurable, and so they are usually consuming far more energy than they need because children eat a lot for pleasure alone, and they are small to begin with, so there you have it. They are taking in far more energy than they need, and their development is also fueling a huge amount of novelty reactions in the hippocampus, which can create feelings of joy, happiness and euphoria.

I have children in my life, and they will play for hours and hours without becoming bored, why? because play is development for them, on the other hand, adults become very bored with child play because the skills required for their games have already been learned, so the 'fun' isn't there.

[Bob Michael]

On a Child's Fall from 'Grace' - In Most Cases Never to Make the Return Again.....

"We might say that the child is a "natural" coward: he cannot have the strength to support the terror of creation. The world as it is, creation out of the void, things as they are, things as they are not, are too much for us to be able to stand. Or better: they 'would be' too much for us to bear without crumbling in a faint, trembling like a leaf, standing in a trance 'in response' to the movement, colors, and orders of the world. I say "would be" because most of us - by the time we leave childhood - have repressed our vision of the of the primary miraculousness of creation. We have closed it off, changed it, and no longer perceive the world as it is to raw experience. Sometimes we may capture this world by remembering some striking childhood perceptions, how suffused they were in emotion and wonder - how a favorite grandfather looked, or one's first love in his teens. We change these heavily emotional perceptions precisely because we need to move about in the world with some kind of strength and directedness; we can't keep gaping with our heart in our mouth, greedily sucking up with our eyes everything great and powerful that strikes us. The great boon of repression is that it makes it possible to live decisively in an overwhelmingly miraculous and incomprehensible world, a world full of beauty, majesty, and terror that if animals perceived it all they would be paralyzed to act." (Ernest Becker - 'The Denial of Death')

[Bob Michael]

"From her early years Mirra Alfassa (The Mother [Aurobindo]) was aware of something she could neither name nor describe. "There was a kind of inner light, a Presence. I was born with that." She went and sat in a little chair, especially made for her, to feel that Presence, which probably exerted a light, rather pleasant pressure on her brain; out of this Presence she then regarded the disconcerting world around her, which lacked so much in comprehension and sympathy, and which was full of lies, anger and friction, of enmity, nastiness, and ignorance. The little human children, not yet hardened by life, are so often hurt by the 'affectionate' grown-ups around them, who are unaware of the hidden aggressiveness of their words and actions. And in Mirra the Beauty from which she had come remained totally alive. Even in her childish movements could be felt the nearness of a light still kept from earth." (From 'Beyond Man' by Georges Van Vrekhem)

[Bob Michael]

I have children in my life, and they will play for hours and hours without becoming bored, why? because play is development for them, on the other hand, adults become very bored with child play because the skills required for their games have already been learned, so the 'fun' isn't there.

I think the less children 'play', and especially with other children, the better the chances are that they'll soundly develop and retain their innate "bright" and perhaps make the return again to it later in life. Growing up in a sane and quiet home, I feel, is also of huge benefit in this regard. Most of children's 'play' and 'games', and especially in these times, are but a heading down the path to destruction (of the soul and one's God-given joyful human spirit). And quite rare are adults who have completely put aside childish things or games. Instead their games simply become more sophisticated or grown up and 'normal'. Those who are awakened to the "bright" and/or reality can clearly see the games played, mostly unconsciously, in these online discussion forums, and everywhere in life for that matter.

[Ryan Rudolph]

Bob Michael,

I think the less children 'play', and especially with other children, the better the chances are that they'll soundly develop and retain their innate "bright" and perhaps make the return again to it later in life. Growing up in a sane and quiet home, I feel, is also of huge benefit in this regard. Most of children's 'play' and 'games', and especially in these times, are but a heading down the path to destruction (of the soul and one's God-given joyful human spirit). And quite rare are adults who have completely put aside childish things or games. Instead their games simply become more sophisticated or grown up and 'normal'. Those who are awakened to the "bright" and/or reality can clearly see the games played, mostly unconsciously, in these online discussion forums, and everywhere in life for that matter.

yes, it seems children's games are always based on winners and losers, pleasure and pain, and singling out the different ones, and deriving power through inclusion or exclusion. So yes, I agree. Games are quite evil in many regards because to enjoy games, the child must behave in a manner that assumes dualism is real, and therefore allows children to feed off the emotions of others.

"Hell is filled with immature children, children who need to leech off each other in order to validate their own state of false identity"

[jufa]

HOW TO RECOGNIZE ENLIGHTENMENT

The Wanderling

"Many people have the Great Vehicle Root Nature, but there are also many people who lie. Having cultivated without success, such people claim to have the way. Though they have not certified the fruit, they claim to be certified sages."

Bodhidharma, the First Patriarch to Hui-K'o, the to-be Second Patriarch

Exploring if an outside observer can, in all cases, determine if a person is Enlightened or not, the venerated Indian Sanyasin, Sri Adi Shankara (sometimes spelled Sankara) (788-820), in his work The Crest Jewel of Discrimination [1] or as it is sometimes known, Viveka Chudamani [2], states that the Knower of the Atman (i.e., a person Awakened to the Absolute, Enlightened) "bears no outward mark of a holy man" (Stanza 539). Continuing, although there are variences found in the actual wording between various translators and translations the gist behind the words remains the same, Shankara writes:

"Sometimes he appears to be a Fool, sometimes a wise man. Sometimes he seems splendid as a king, sometimes feeble-minded. Sometimes he is calm and silent. Sometimes he draws men to him. Sometimes people honor him greatly, sometimes they insult him. Sometimes they ignore him." Sri Shankara goes on: "The ignorant see the body of a knower of Brahman and identify him with it. Actually he is free from the body and every other kind of bondage. To him the body is merely a shadow."

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[jupiviv]

@Bob Michael, while you certainly do have an unusual degree of understanding, I cannot help but perceive that you very attached to that understanding, and have no intention of going further to a deeper understanding. Genuine enlightenment is the liberation from suffering, but it is also the liberation from happiness("bright" as you say,) since happiness always leads to suffering.

[Pam Seeback]

It is true, Bob, that man's suffering does not end when he seeks to contain the "the bright" within his awareness. Why? Because the law of sense awareness is built upon the unchanging law of the opposites of birth and death, which translate psychologically into the opposites of good and evil. Which means that to be aware of "bright" is also to be aware of "dark"; no man can change this truth. It is true that a man can attain to high degrees of "brightness", but no man can sustain "brightness" without ceasing. There is but one way to exit the conjoined twins of "bright" and "dark", and that is to "be still and know I am God/Life."

What I have discovered is that being still so that one's attachment to the opposites does not arise does not render one without heart or feeling, for as long as one is aware of their senses, feeling remains. One must be in the world even when they are not of the world. I don't know how familiar you are with the Buddha's teachings, but I offer this nugget which expresses the nature of feeling, of the spiritual heart, when the wisdom of nibbana or the law of the Spirit of life [my addition] is attained:

It was through understanding, that the Blessed One discovered the Dhamma,
[the wisdom of the law of the Spirit of life]!
It was through compassion, that he taught it to the multitude of beings.
It was through understanding, that he felt disillusion with the rebirth round.
It was through compassion, that he bore it, while learning to liberate others.
It was through understanding, that he fully understood others' suffering,
It was through compassion, that he undertook to counteract this misery.
It was through understanding, that he himself crossed over to Nibbāna!
It was through compassion, that he brought other beings across also...
It was through compassion, that he practised & taught no-cruelty to others.
It was through understanding, that he himself was fearless of all others.
It was through compassion, that he became this world's only real helper.
It was through understanding, that he became his own absolute helper.
It was through compassion, that he was humble and gentle as a Bodhisatta.
It was through understanding, that he gained majestic dignity as a Buddha.
It was through compassion, that he helped all beings as a safeguarding father.
It was through understanding, that he remained detached from all beings.
It was through understanding, that his mind was detached from all states.
For just as the Blessed One's compassion was without sentimental fondness
so was his supreme understanding free from the concepts of "I" and "mine"...
Vism. Comm: Pm. 192-93

[Bob Michael]

@Bob Michael, while you certainly do have an unusual degree of understanding, I cannot help but perceive that you very attached to that understanding, and have no intention of going further to a deeper understanding.

I feel my 'understanding' (of myself, life, and the nature of the ongoing human dilemma) is complete, or very, very close to complete. So my challenge and task ahead is to develop an approach that will be effective in thrusting other highly-sensitive people into undergoing the necessary radical shift in consciousness, along with creating an understanding environment wherein complete and total self-overcoming can take place in these people unimpeded by the spirit-destroying entanglements and ways of the world.

Genuine enlightenment is the liberation from suffering, but it is also the liberation from happiness("bright" as you say,) since happiness always leads to suffering.

I made it clear in the title of this thread that the return to the "bright" is the same as the return to the 'natural (human) state'. Both of these states being free of suffering. And it continues to be my experience that happiness of the heart never leads to suffering. If anything it tends to lead to the want of more happiness of the heart in both oneself and others.

[Bob Michael]

It is true, Bob, that man's suffering does not end when he seeks to contain the "the bright" within his awareness. Why? Because the law of sense awareness is built upon the unchanging law of the opposites of birth and death, which translate psychologically into the opposites of good and evil. Which means that to be aware of "bright" is also to be aware of "dark"; no man can change this truth. It is true that a man can attain to high degrees of "brightness", but no man can sustain "brightness" without ceasing. There is but one way to exit the conjoined twins of "bright" and "dark", and that is to "be still and know I am God/Life."

The "bright" I refer to has nothing to do with the "dark". Again it is the same as the 'natural human state' (of being), which is to be in harmonious relationship with oneself, one's fellows, and God and Life.

What I have discovered is that being still so that one's attachment to the opposites does not arise does not render one without heart or feeling, for as long as one is aware of their senses, feeling remains. One must be in the world even when they are not of the world. I don't know how familiar you are with the Buddha's teachings, but I offer this nugget which expresses the nature of feeling, of the spiritual heart, when the wisdom of nibbana or the law of the Spirit of life [my addition] is attained: [snip]

Yes, "being still"-minded is certainly the key to the kingdom or the World of the Spirit. And a "spiritual heart" speaks the language of the heart, which appears as fooliness to the carnally minded.

[jupiviv]

And it continues to be my experience that happiness of the heart never leads to suffering.

Your happiness will go away if the conditions that made it arise go away. And if you are not enlightened then, you will inevitably suffer.

[Bob Michael]

And it continues to be my experience that happiness of the heart never leads to suffering.

Your happiness will go away if the conditions that made it arise go away. And if you are not enlightened then, you will inevitably suffer.

Genuine and enduring 'happiness of the heart' does not depend upon external conditions or circumstances; rather it's grounded in earnest and progressive self-overcoming and the ever-increasing integrity of one's relationship with the Infinite.

"Sheer joy is God's and this demands companionship." (Thomas Aquinas)

[jupiviv]

Genuine and enduring 'happiness of the heart' does not depend upon external conditions or circumstances; rather it's grounded in earnest and progressive self-overcoming and the ever-increasing integrity of one's relationship with the Infinite.

Everything has a relationship with the infinite. Enlightenment is just the awareness of this relationship - which in Sanskrit is called "bodh"(=>Buddha.) But enlightenment(awareness/consciousness) is temporary and as much dependent on external conditions as anything else.

[Bob Michael]

Everything has a relationship with the infinite. Enlightenment is just the awareness of this relationship - which in Sanskrit is called "bodh"(=>Buddha.) But enlightenment(awareness/consciousness) is temporary and as much dependent on external conditions as anything else.

Enlightenment ideally is being in perfect correspondence or harmony with the Infinite. Though often times enlightenment stagnates to a mere intellectual and limited experiential understanding of this extraordinary state of being in which one could be said to be only semi-enlightened. It all gets down to Lao Tzu's view that "The perfect man is pure Spirit." Yet as Hermann Hesse righly alluded and you seem to suggest, jupiviv, complete and total self-realization is impossible in relation with other men as their lack of self-realization interferes with it. Though I find one's level of comfortability and quality of assistance to others can remain very good to excellant in spite of this fact.

[jupiviv]

Yet as Hermann Hesse righly alluded and you seem to suggest, jupiviv, complete and total self-realization is impossible in relation with other men as their lack of self-realization interferes with it.

I meant that self-realization is just the same as everything else in the universe, and not anything special. It comes into being and goes away after a time, just like everything else. However, the truth of the "self" is not falsified after one stops being conscious of it.

[Bob Michael]

I meant that self-realization is just the same as everything else in the universe, and not anything special. It comes into being and goes away after a time, just like everything else. However, the truth of the "self" is not falsified after one stops being conscious of it.

There is a Zen saying, "Before Enlightenment chop wood - carry water, after Enlightenment, chop wood - carry water."

My experience is that after enlightenment if there's a need to chop wood or carry water these things will be done in a totally new light. That being the light of joyful effortlessness.

[jupiviv]

There is a Zen saying, "Before Enlightenment chop wood - carry water, after Enlightenment, chop wood - carry water."

The problem with that statement is that most people will think that there is nothing wrong with the deluded activities they already engage in, and so there's no need for anything more.

[Bob Michael]

There is a Zen saying, "Before Enlightenment chop wood - carry water, after Enlightenment, chop wood - carry water."

The problem with that statement is that most people will think that there is nothing wrong with the deluded activities they already engage in, and so there's no need for anything more.

Yes, I was never all that impressed with that statement either, or Zen in general. Though to be honest I seem to find fault with everything and everyone. Perhaps someday I'll get over it. Though maybe not.

[Pam Seeback]

Yes, I was never all that impressed with that statement either, or Zen in general. Though to be honest I seem to find fault with everything and everyone. Perhaps someday I'll get over it. Though maybe not.

I realize that I am stepping into your world Bob, as this is your thread, so I understand if you opt not to respond to me. I respect your interpretation that I seem theoretical and abstract, so I will try to be very direct and to the point in responding to your above statement:

Spirit is omnipresent;

Therefore, spirit cannot find fault with Spirit;

Therefore, if a man is finding fault with another man, he is not in tune with omnipresent Spirit, but with the present [finite] judging thoughts of other men;

Therefore, if a man desires to be in conscious union with the omnipresent Spirit of God rather than with the finite thought of man, it is his task to purify, from his mind, his collective/collected human thoughts of good and evil judgment.

[Bob Michael]

I realize that I am stepping into your world Bob, as this is your thread, so I understand if you opt not to respond to me. I respect your interpretation that I seem theoretical and abstract, so I will try to be very direct and to the point in responding to your above statement:

Spirit is omnipresent;

Therefore, spirit cannot find fault with Spirit;

Therefore, if a man is finding fault with another man, he is not in tune with omnipresent Spirit, but with the present [finite] judging thoughts of other men;

Therefore, if a man desires to be in conscious union with the omnipresent Spirit of God rather than with the finite thought of man, it is his task to purify, from his mind, his collective/collected human thoughts of good and evil judgment.

SPIRIT is Love, Truth and Right-Action. End of story!

"Judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment." (Christ)

[Memystic]

And it continues to be my experience that happiness of the heart never leads to suffering.

Your happiness will go away if the conditions that made it arise go away. And if you are not enlightened then, you will inevitably suffer.

So the price of suffering is greater than the reward of having had happiness? Sir, I disagree.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

So the price of suffering is greater than the reward of having had happiness? Sir, I disagree.

There's no price to pay at all. Read again carefully what's being said. The price is only paid after some wrong investment. Some call such investment "ignorance".

[cousinbasil]

Therefore, if a man is finding fault with another man, he is not in tune with omnipresent Spirit, but with the present [finite] judging thoughts of other men;
Therefore, if a man desires to be in conscious union with the omnipresent Spirit of God rather than with the finite thought of man, it is his task to purify, from his mind, his collective/collected human thoughts of good and evil judgment.

“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?" - Jesus to the Pharisees, Matthew 23:31

Where were you when he needed you?

[Bob Michael]

"My conclusion from a lifetime of psychohistorical study of childhood and society is that the history of humanity is founded upon the abuse of children." (Lloyd deMause)