Buddhism

[uncledote]

What branch of Buddhism would those who post here advocate?

[Blair]

I don't advocate Buddhism, or any religion or branch thereof for that matter, it's all bullshit.

[David Quinn]

Forget branches and schools. It all comes down to individuals. Almost all of Buddhism is deluded, but there are the occasional individuals who are real gems.

The writings of Huang Po, for example. Hakuin. The Dhammapada. All these go straight to the heart of Buddhist wisdom.

Some samples on my website: Buddhist sages, Hakuin.

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[Bob Michael]

Forget branches and schools. It all comes down to individuals. Almost all of Buddhism is deluded, but there are the occasional individuals who are real gems.

Can you name any living 'gems' (Buddhist or otherwise), David?

[Bob Michael]

I don't advocate Buddhism, or any religion or branch thereof for that matter, it's all bullshit.

Do you think all of them were bullshit from the very start?

[Blair]

Do you think all of them were bullshit from the very start?

Of course. Were primitive people capable of figuring it all out?

[Bob Michael]

Of course. Were primitive people capable of figuring it all out?

No they weren't, hence they were all flawed from the start. Nor were they able to grasp and develop the right approach for the genuine liberation of others. Though I know of no modern people who have figured it all out either.

[uncledote]

I don't advocate Buddhism, or any religion or branch thereof for that matter, it's all bullshit.

So, would you say that the practice of Meditation (or Mindfulness) is all bullshit?

[Animus]

I honestly don't pay much attention. It doesn't matter to me if the statement is "Buddhist" or not, or whether it is "Mahayana" or "Vedantic". If it is true, it is true. If it is useful, it is useful.

[Bob Michael]

So, would you say that the practice of Meditation (or Mindfulness) is all bullshit?

Yes, I'd say this is very largely the case unless one first undergoes a radical shift or change of conscience or consciousness.

[Bob Michael]

I honestly don't pay much attention. It doesn't matter to me if the statement is "Buddhist" or not, or whether it is "Mahayana" or "Vedantic". If it is true, it is true. If it is useful, it is useful.

How can you be sure it's truth? How can you be sure there's not limitations and falsehoods in all religious, spiritual, or philosophic systems or methods? And that you're totally free of these things?

[Robert]

I honestly don't pay much attention. It doesn't matter to me if the statement is "Buddhist" or not, or whether it is "Mahayana" or "Vedantic". If it is true, it is true. If it is useful, it is useful.

How can you be sure it's truth? How can you be sure there's not limitations and falsehoods in all religious, spiritual, or philosophic systems or methods? And that you're totally free of these things?

Odd question there Bob. If you know truth and can recognise it in whatever source, then why are limitations and falsehoods a problem? They are what they are, and since you can see them as such, you're free from them (potentially).

[uncledote]

So, would you say that the practice of Meditation (or Mindfulness) is all bullshit?

Yes, I'd say this is very largely the case unless one first undergoes a radical shift or change of conscience or consciousness.

How does one achieve a radical change in consciousness?

[Bob Michael]

If you know truth and can recognise it in whatever source, then why are limitations and falsehoods a problem? They are what they are, and since you can see them as such, you're free from them (potentially).

Are you saying that your every word, thought, and deed is grounded in ultimate truth, and therefore you're free from all limitations and falsehoods? If so I would consider you a man of pure spirit and a liberator of mankind. A harbinger of Light in our dark and decaying world.

[Bob Michael]

How does one achieve a radical change in consciousness?

My experience is that such a thing comes of itself if one reaches a point in life whereby he's thoroughly sick and tired of himself, the world around him, and existence itself. And that a person most likely won't reach this point unless he possesses a finely-formed and highly-sensitive organism.

"What is the greatest thing a man can experience? It is that hour of great [self]-contempt." (Nietzsche)

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (J. C.)

[uncledote]

How does one achieve a radical change in consciousness?

My experience is that such a thing comes of itself if one reaches a point in life whereby he's thoroughly sick and tired of himself, the world around him, and existence itself. And that a person most likely won't reach this point unless he possesses a finely-formed and highly-sensitive organism.

"What is the greatest thing a man can experience? It is that hour of great [self]-contempt." (Nietzsche)

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (J. C.)

Yes, I'm aware of those quotes - powerful stuff. I feel that I've been there before and that I'm back there now. But how do I know if I have a finely-formed and highly sensitive organism and if I discover that I do, how do I utilise it to achieve a radical change in consciousness?

[Robert]

If you know truth and can recognise it in whatever source, then why are limitations and falsehoods a problem? They are what they are, and since you can see them as such, you're free from them (potentially).

Are you saying that your every word, thought, and deed is grounded in ultimate truth, and therefore you're free from all limitations and falsehoods? If so I would consider you a man of pure spirit and a liberator of mankind. A harbinger of Light in our dark and decaying world.

It's hard work, but somebody has to do it. Well, I say it's hard, sometimes it is, but fortunately my finely formed and fully functioning organism is up to the job.

Ask my wife.

[Kelly Jones]

Are you saying that your every word, thought, and deed is grounded in ultimate truth, and therefore you're free from all limitations and falsehoods?

Unless you are absolutely perfect in wisdom, you're not qualified to determine even this, let alone ask anyone their qualifications, according to your theory. Only if you were perfectly and irreversibly grounded in ultimate truth, could you know if any word, thought, and deed were free from all falsehood - including falsehood in your theory. So, where does that leave your theory?

Surely you realise that one doesn't jump from 100% fool to 100% sage overnight. One true thought leads to another.


.

[Bob Michael]

Unless you are absolutely perfect in wisdom, you're not qualified to determine even this, let alone ask anyone their qualifications, according to your theory. Only if you were perfectly and irreversibly grounded in ultimate truth, could you know if any word, thought, and deed were free from all falsehood - including falsehood in your theory. So, where does that leave your theory? Surely you realise that one doesn't jump from 100% fool to 100% sage overnight. One true thought leads to another.

I exist as I am, that is suffice - if no one else in the world be transformed and fully aware, I sit content.

With all due respect Kelly, I think you live in your head rather than your heart, or from the totality of your being.

[Bob Michael]

It's hard work, but somebody has to do it. Well, I say it's hard, sometimes it is, but fortunately my finely formed and fully functioning organism is up to the job. Ask my wife.

You don't seem serious about this, Robert.

[Bob Michael]

Yes, I'm aware of those quotes - powerful stuff. I feel that I've been there before and that I'm back there now. But how do I know if I have a finely-formed and highly sensitive organism and if I discover that I do, how do I utilise it to achieve a radical change in consciousness?

Sorry for the delay, I overlooked your reply. If you've in fact experienced a radical breakthrough or shift in consciousness, even though you've returned again to your unnatural mind state (with is normal to do), chances are good that you have the right stuff for genuine enlightenment and total self-overcoming.

The intelligence or wisdom of the newly-discovered (or rediscovered) natural mind state will eventually take over more and more and of itself bring about understanding, direction and unending change.

The whole process is a matter of continual surrender (or a dying to one's conditioned and unnatural self) until one is finally and fully 'there'. Which only the awakened one can (and must) know.

[Robert]

It's hard work, but somebody has to do it. Well, I say it's hard, sometimes it is, but fortunately my finely formed and fully functioning organism is up to the job. Ask my wife.

You don't seem serious about this, Robert.

It's just a joke Bob, I couldn't help myself since you like to repeat your concept of perfect forms and sensitive organisms living within a doomed existence. Someone was bound to single it out sonner or later.

Existence, as we know it, is doomed, that's fairly certain. The oncoming heat death of the universe, maximum entropy, is but a blink in God's eye.

[Blair]

Of course. Were primitive people capable of figuring it all out?

No they weren't, hence they were all flawed from the start. Nor were they able to grasp and develop the right approach for the genuine liberation of others. Though I know of no modern people who have figured it all out either.

Collectively, enough is known to dismiss the idea that the universe was created by anything supernatural, or that beings literally reincarnate, or are descendant from aliens, or have psychic powers, et cetera...

The liberation of others, as you put it, is not truly possible due to the base nature of evolutions reproductive cycle. Parents view their offspring as their property, upon which to impose memes, values, ideas and so on, this will never change.

[Bob Michael]

Collectively, enough is known to dismiss the idea that the universe was created by anything supernatural, or that beings literally reincarnate, or are descendant from aliens, or have psychic powers, et cetera...

Perhaps this may be so. However, there does exit a supernatural, mystical, or spiritual dimension or manner of being or existence that has been known and experienced by a relatively small number of people. And which will someday be seen as quite natural to all human beings. And for some reason I want to put an 'again' on the end of the previous sentence. Though it really matters little in the overall scheme of things.

The liberation of others, as you put it, is not truly possible due to the base nature of evolutions reproductive cycle. Parents view their offspring as their property, upon which to impose memes, values, ideas and so on, this will never change.

I often held this depressing view myself and suffered considerably as a result some 12-18 years ago. Actually this clear awareness of the horror and the tragic nature of the human condition thrust me into a dark night of the soul experience and lengthy depression that I felt I wasn't going to survive, or at least not with my sanity. Nor did I really want to keep on living. However, I eventually got over it and came to realize that not everyone has been irreparably damaged neurologically (and humanly) by our parental and societal conditioning or enculturation. So I continue to hold out hope for the rebirth (radical biological mutation) and salvation (complete renewing of the mind and sense functioning) of at least a small portion of the human species. While again, the greater portion of it eventually self-destructs under the weight of its inhuman(e) or cruel and barbaric ways. Which continue to further and further deteriorate and with absolutely no hope whatsoever of positive change for the blind multitude, but only for a few select individuals here and there.

[Bob Michael]

It's just a joke Bob, I couldn't help myself since you like to repeat your concept of perfect forms and sensitive organisms living within a doomed existence. Someone was bound to single it out sooner or later.

Yes, though I remain dead serious, and quite content with my concepts or vision, if you will. Along with the realization that most people will seriously question my sanity.

Existence, as we know it, is doomed, that's fairly certain. The oncoming heat death of the universe, maximum entropy, is but a blink in God's eye.

Yes, and we're all also but a blink in God's eye. But it remains my goal to try and make it a pleasant, happy, and joyful blink for some of us more finely-formed and highly-sensitive and thereby more deeply-suffering souls. Actually my view is that most people due to the 'fall' have been so badly neurologically botched that they really can't be said to suffer at all. Rather they're perfectly 'happy' and 'content' in their dehumanized, conscience-lacking, or machinelike state of being.