Suicide

[IJesusChrist]

I've brought this to every forum I've been to and almost every time I find it the most hard to discuss topic.

I was sitting in my bed very sick with mono one night when a very strong sense of anxiety or depression (I don't know what) came over me. I began to feel that I should become a vegetarian 'for realsies' as my empathy for animals was so extreme at that point I almost felt as if I was dieing from the thought of another animal's pain. I am speaking of all animals, people included. I thought of fish, and how their less evolved mental abilities should allow me to use them as food, for their suffering won't be as ... complex as most other animals.

They still suffer. They still have that pain, that will to survive, as all living things do. As a believer in Gaia, I believe every living thing is very connected, and plants too ...mmm... how can I say this, have feelings. Although they do not have consciousness, cognition, nor any type of thought, emotion, or sensation as we do - they are still living, and if I eat them I am killing them. Taking life is destroying not only the plant or animal itself, but it's entire existance - it's entire chain of reproduction, an entire limb on the tree of life & evolution.

Is it the ultimate answer to live? Or is it the ultimate answer to die, to stop yourself? Why is life favored over the non-living? For complexity? Yet it is possible to create 'non-living' of equal complexity, is it not?

Why is it, that we have the right to destroy and end other life, so that ours can persist? Why is it that evolution is favored over stagnant life? Is death, suicide, the ultimate selfless act?

[Cory Duchesne]

Taking life is destroying not only the plant or animal itself, but it's entire existance - it's entire chain of reproduction, an entire limb on the tree of life & evolution.

My stance on killing animals and plants is that we can either do it now, or we can wait until nature does it. Why is letting a cow, chicken or fish die naturally any less terrible the cutting it's life short? Animals are going to die anyway, so it doesn't matter if we kill them, they are going to suffer eventually, probably suffer worse actually!

Is it the ultimate answer to live? Or is it the ultimate answer to die, to stop yourself?

Suicide isn't going to solve the problem of death, because even if Humanity decided to opt out for moral reasons, life would march on, and life is a process of destruction/creation. Death & suffering would continue happening on a very large scale whether humanity is here or not.

Why is it, that we have the right to destroy and end other life, so that ours can persist?

It isn't so much a right, but a brute fact. Life and death are not two separate independent things, they are two parts of the same whole. Destroying is part of creating, you can't separate them.

Why is it that evolution is favored over stagnant life?

I don't know what you mean by evolution being favored over stagnant life. If anything, stagnant life, like rocks, elements and gases are quite a bit more durable. They endure. Life can easily be wiped out, but you'd be hard pressed to rid our universe of it's atomic elements.

Is death, suicide, the ultimate selfless act?

Nope, it's as selfish as anything really. Not that I'm really against suicide, I'm just not under the illusion that it has a selfless nature to it.

[Jason]

My stance on killing animals and plants is that we can either do it now, or we can wait until nature does it. Why is letting a cow, chicken or fish die naturally any less terrible the cutting it's life short? Animals are going to die anyway, so it doesn't matter if we kill them, they are going to suffer eventually, probably suffer worse actually!

You could make the same argument about killing humans couldn't you?

[Blair]

Breathing is suicide, and robbing some other poor motherfucking organism of life.

You are damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

A = A

[Jason]

Breathing is suicide

Not if you're breathing the right gases(or possibly even some liquids.)

[Pam Seeback]

I've brought this to every forum I've been to and almost every time I find it the most hard to discuss topic.

I was sitting in my bed very sick with mono one night when a very strong sense of anxiety or depression (I don't know what) came over me. I began to feel that I should become a vegetarian 'for realsies' as my empathy for animals was so extreme at that point I almost felt as if I was dieing from the thought of another animal's pain. I am speaking of all animals, people included. I thought of fish, and how their less evolved mental abilities should allow me to use them as food, for their suffering won't be as ... complex as most other animals.

They still suffer. They still have that pain, that will to survive, as all living things do. As a believer in Gaia, I believe every living thing is very connected, and plants too ...mmm... how can I say this, have feelings. Although they do not have consciousness, cognition, nor any type of thought, emotion, or sensation as we do - they are still living, and if I eat them I am killing them. Taking life is destroying not only the plant or animal itself, but it's entire existance - it's entire chain of reproduction, an entire limb on the tree of life & evolution.

Is it the ultimate answer to live? Or is it the ultimate answer to die, to stop yourself? Why is life favored over the non-living? For complexity? Yet it is possible to create 'non-living' of equal complexity, is it not?

Why is it, that we have the right to destroy and end other life, so that ours can persist? Why is it that evolution is favored over stagnant life? Is death, suicide, the ultimate selfless act?

IJC, every thought, including suicide, lives within the sense (dual) consciousness of man. Man's flesh consciousness includes the entire spectrum of good and evil thinking. There is no human who is not indoctrinated to this entire thought spectrum, applying his or her own personal or subjective interpretations of every thought the individual human mind within the universal human mind has possessed within the walls of the soul.

The thought "suicide" is a perfect example of how the human mind is entrapped by the dualities it has come to believe are permanent realities within its consciousness. Fear of suicide (thoughts of suicide) is the fear of death which is the belief that death is real. Life and death is the primal dualism, and until the illusion of these dualities is transcended (realized to be an illusion, for there cannot be death in life, of life - Life is Life) man will continue to be enslaved to his dual thoughts of life and death, which boils down to fear of his own thoughts. When I speak of "man" here, I speak not of you individually, or anyone individually, but of man the metaphor, the metaphor being man as an expression of Life Itself.

If man is honest with himself, deep-down honest, he will acknowledge that there is no human mentality that will bring him peace of mind from his fear of his own dual thoughts. There are philosophies galore that attempt to deal with dualities by using dualities, positive over negative, higher over lower, good over evil, but in none of these philosophies is man (the metaphor) able to eliminate, within himself, the fear of the death of his human (dual) thoughts.

You are in Life, of life, for life, as life. Where else can you be? What else can you be? Who else can you be? When else can you be? Right now, in this moment of reading my words, you are aware of the sense of you, and within that awareness of the sense of you, is your awareness of the dualities of life and death. Within your sense awareness of one half of the dualism of life and death, "death", also lives the universal thought "suicide." And, within the universal thought "suicide" lives your multi-layered personal/subjective (indoctrinated) ideas, concepts and perceptions of what "suicide" means to you.

Those who remain believing that it is possible to overcome one duality with another duality will tell you to think this way or that way so that you can "feel better", but never do these "masters of duality" show you the way to permanently remove the thought suicide, which is the thought death, from your mind. Only permanent removal of the thought death can conquer all dualities, for every duality exists within the primal dualism of belief that man's sense awareness is the beginning and ending (the one and only) thought awareness of man.

You have given yourself the name IJesusChrist: was it not the spirit of Christ, in the temporary flesh (sense) appearance of Jesus who came to dispel the lie that life (thought awareness) can die? "Before Abraham, (flesh awareness), I AM." This board speaks of logic - is it not logical to conclude that life cannot die? Life is life. Period. And, is it not also logical that that which is aware of your sense thoughts of your belief in the dual reality of life and death, is itself beyond this very belief, and that its nature is also of thought?

Your signature is "to think or not to think." What I have become aware of is that Reality IS Thought and Thought IS Reality. Thought that man relates to via his senses, dualism, and thought that gives rise to and supports man's sense (dual) interpretations. Both are of the consciousness of man, but not every man is consciously aware of the existence of both ways of thinking. Bottom line is that you can never leave the thinking of you, be you aware of your senses or be on the path of transcending your sense awareness or be you wholly transcendent of your awareness of your senses.

It is up to you whether or not you wish to transcend (end) the thought "suicide" in your consciousness. You do have the power and you do know the way to end all dualities within your awareness, but it is you that must take the first step.

[Cory Duchesne]

My stance on killing animals and plants is that we can either do it now, or we can wait until nature does it. Why is letting a cow, chicken or fish die naturally any less terrible the cutting it's life short? Animals are going to die anyway, so it doesn't matter if we kill them, they are going to suffer eventually, probably suffer worse actually!

You could make the same argument about killing humans couldn't you?

I don't think so, because the psychological suffering of the persons left behind become overly severe, complicated and long lasting, leading to all kinds of convolution & inefficiency in the social order. If you care about helping people reach high levels of consciousness, it's just not pragmatic to kill humans, because the inevitable reactions I think are counterproductive.

I do like the vegetarian arguments that talk about the excess Co2 production in raising animals compared to the much cleaner plant crops.

[Gurrb]

does the suffering of living outweigh the 'suffering' of not existing?

perfection is non-existent, just as non-existence is perfection.

[IJesusChrist]

I am basing all of this on the idea, the moral that killing is ultimately wrong. Killing a person is no different than killing an animal, in the simplest means, usually humans just have more connections, more responsibilities in our society, so to us, it seems dramatic, to our society.

But to kill yourself, you are opening the way for not only another animal to tak your place, to strive on what you've left, but you are taking away the death of many animals & plants that you would have to kill.

Is it the ultimate answer to live? Or is it the ultimate answer to die, to stop yourself?


Suicide isn't going to solve the problem of death, because even if Humanity decided to opt out for moral reasons, life would march on, and life is a process of destruction/creation. Death & suffering would continue happening on a very large scale whether humanity is here or not.

Yes, but if the animal is not conscious that s/he is killing, that what s/he is doing, as I am and you are, then it is not an issue, the animal is simply ignorant and innocent, but by knowing the reactions of your actions, are you not obliged to change, yet there is no way to escape killing, with life, as many of you said, they are one in the same.

[Pincho Paxton]

I am basing all of this on the idea, the moral that killing is ultimately wrong. Killing a person is no different than killing an animal, in the simplest means, usually humans just have more connections, more responsibilities in our society, so to us, it seems dramatic, to our society.

But to kill yourself, you are opening the way for not only another animal to tak your place, to strive on what you've left, but you are taking away the death of many animals & plants that you would have to kill.

Is it the ultimate answer to live? Or is it the ultimate answer to die, to stop yourself?


Suicide isn't going to solve the problem of death, because even if Humanity decided to opt out for moral reasons, life would march on, and life is a process of destruction/creation. Death & suffering would continue happening on a very large scale whether humanity is here or not.

Yes, but if the animal is not conscious that s/he is killing, that what s/he is doing, as I am and you are, then it is not an issue, the animal is simply ignorant and innocent, but by knowing the reactions of your actions, are you not obliged to change, yet there is no way to escape killing, with life, as many of you said, they are one in the same.

Well for you it should be easy to eat fish. You believe that consciousness is memory, and a fish has quite a poor memory, and not much really to remember.. Oh I just saw another fish, some weeds, a rock..

Chucking a lobster in hot water is the sort of thing to avoid.

[IJesusChrist]

Good one pincho, they still suffer however, however simple their 'suffering' may be.

[Gurrb]

god created suicide by creating man.

god committed suicide by destroying man.

[IJesusChrist]

Wow that is about the largest ego I've heard yet.

Do you seriously consider that as anything near fact?

[Gurrb]

ego? what i'm saying is that suicide and god are man-made. contradiction of terms in a way.

[Gurrb]

understand before you criticize. and you seem to have a chip on your shoulder. very touchy in terms of your intelligence.

[IJesusChrist]

My bad. I came to the wrong conclusion, I thought you were saying that God was only responsible for Man, i.e. Man is holy and above other life, and God doesn't care about life unless it's man.